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Re: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"

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  • rutger
    I guess you could make the lid floating: alway a full keg , which will prevent any oxydation. Rutger ... From: Lee Fugatt To:
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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      I guess you could make the lid floating: alway a full 'keg', which
      will prevent any oxydation.

      Rutger
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Lee Fugatt" <lpndolfn@...>
      To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 1:54 PM
      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


      > I have a another option to paying $40 bucks for a wooden bucket if
      you like. I am very new to distilling but I have been making Native
      American crafts out of wood for years. One such is the 8 sided Buffalo
      drum. Now, with that preface, I too wanted to age my product is a
      charred oak cask. I started out thinking I needed to learn how to
      cooper my own barrels when I had a moment of (relative) coherent
      thought. Booze cannot tell the diference between "round' and
      "octagonal". I suddenly realised that it probably cannot tell the
      diference between 8 sides and 4 sides either. I now have 2 oak
      "boxes" that hold about 2 gallons each. (I am a small timer) I used
      rabbit joint dadoes on all seams and pegged with birch dowels. The lid
      is the same but the dowels are left long so I can take the top off to
      re char the inner surface. I drilled a 2 inch hole in this "lid" for
      a bung and a 3/4 inch hole at the bottom of one side of the box for a
      wooden spigot I bought for $5.00 US at a wine supply shop. The wood
      soaks up a little product but I think after a short time this won't
      be a concern. Lee
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: tfurey7
      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:48 AM
      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
      >
      >
      > From: homedistiller
      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:13 AM
      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
      >
      >
      > Hi Bert,
      >
      > Although I would love it to own a small oak barrel for
      experimenting
      >
      =====================================================================
      >
      >
      > If you really want a small oak barrel you can find a company
      called
      > Thousand Oaks Barrel Co. on the web. I bought a new 1.5gal barrel
      > from them on Ebay for $40.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Tim
      >
      >
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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    • tfurey7
      Hi Lee, Great idea, I wish I had thought of it before I bought the keg. One question: With the removable lid how do you keep it airtight? One more question: Do
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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        Hi Lee,
        Great idea, I wish I had thought of it before I bought the keg.
        One question: With the removable lid how do you keep it airtight?
        One more question: Do you have to re-char the inside after each use?

        Cheers,
        Tim


        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Fugatt" <lpndolfn@c...> wrote:
        > I have a another option to paying $40 bucks for a wooden bucket if
        you like. I am very new to distilling but I have been making Native
        American crafts out of wood for years. One such is the 8 sided
        Buffalo drum. Now, with that preface, I too wanted to age my
        product is a charred oak cask. I started out thinking I needed to
        learn how to cooper my own barrels when I had a moment of (relative)
        coherent thought. Booze cannot tell the diference between "round'
        and "octagonal". I suddenly realised that it probably cannot tell
        the diference between 8 sides and 4 sides either. I now have 2
        oak "boxes" that hold about 2 gallons each. (I am a small timer) I
        used rabbit joint dadoes on all seams and pegged with birch dowels.
        The lid is the same but the dowels are left long so I can take the
        top off to re char the inner surface. I drilled a 2 inch hole in
        this "lid" for a bung and a 3/4 inch hole at the bottom of one side
        of the box for a wooden spigot I bought for $5.00 US at a wine supply
        shop. The wood soaks up a little product but I think after a short
        time this won't be a concern. Lee
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: tfurey7
        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:48 AM
        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
        >
        >
        > From: homedistiller
        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:13 AM
        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
        >
        >
        > Hi Bert,
        >
        > Although I would love it to own a small oak barrel for
        experimenting
        >
        =====================================================================
        >
        >
        > If you really want a small oak barrel you can find a company
        called
        > Thousand Oaks Barrel Co. on the web. I bought a new 1.5gal barrel
        > from them on Ebay for $40.
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Tim
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to distillers-
        unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
        > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lee Fugatt
        The lid is the same as the sides and has to be Tapped into place and pegged. I can then stack the box on any side and it won t leak after the joint is
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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          The "lid" is the same as the sides and has to be "Tapped" into place and pegged. I can then stack the box on any side and it won't leak after the joint is swollen. as to re char after each use. I don't know. I am new at this stuff and I just casked my first full 2 gallons last week. Lee
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: tfurey7
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:04 AM
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


          Hi Lee,
          Great idea, I wish I had thought of it before I bought the keg.
          One question: With the removable lid how do you keep it airtight?
          One more question: Do you have to re-char the inside after each use?

          Cheers,
          Tim


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Fugatt" <lpndolfn@c...> wrote:
          > I have a another option to paying $40 bucks for a wooden bucket if
          you like. I am very new to distilling but I have been making Native
          American crafts out of wood for years. One such is the 8 sided
          Buffalo drum. Now, with that preface, I too wanted to age my
          product is a charred oak cask. I started out thinking I needed to
          learn how to cooper my own barrels when I had a moment of (relative)
          coherent thought. Booze cannot tell the diference between "round'
          and "octagonal". I suddenly realised that it probably cannot tell
          the diference between 8 sides and 4 sides either. I now have 2
          oak "boxes" that hold about 2 gallons each. (I am a small timer) I
          used rabbit joint dadoes on all seams and pegged with birch dowels.
          The lid is the same but the dowels are left long so I can take the
          top off to re char the inner surface. I drilled a 2 inch hole in
          this "lid" for a bung and a 3/4 inch hole at the bottom of one side
          of the box for a wooden spigot I bought for $5.00 US at a wine supply
          shop. The wood soaks up a little product but I think after a short
          time this won't be a concern. Lee
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: tfurey7
          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:48 AM
          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
          >
          >
          > From: homedistiller
          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:13 AM
          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
          >
          >
          > Hi Bert,
          >
          > Although I would love it to own a small oak barrel for
          experimenting
          >
          =====================================================================
          >
          >
          > If you really want a small oak barrel you can find a company
          called
          > Thousand Oaks Barrel Co. on the web. I bought a new 1.5gal barrel
          > from them on Ebay for $40.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Tim
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to distillers-
          unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
          > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Frederick Christiansen
          Lee, I have one question, what is in the box while it is swelling? If you use your distilled product, you may be a copper after all. - Derf ... From: Lee
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Lee, I have one question, what is in the box while it is swelling? If
            you use your distilled product, you may be a copper after all. - Derf

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Lee Fugatt [mailto:lpndolfn@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:08 AM
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"

            The "lid" is the same as the sides and has to be "Tapped" into place and
            pegged. I can then stack the box on any side and it won't leak after the
            joint is swollen. as to re char after each use. I don't know. I am
            new at this stuff and I just casked my first full 2 gallons last week.
            Lee
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: tfurey7
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:04 AM
            Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


            Hi Lee,
            Great idea, I wish I had thought of it before I bought the keg.
            One question: With the removable lid how do you keep it airtight?
            One more question: Do you have to re-char the inside after each use?

            Cheers,
            Tim


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Fugatt" <lpndolfn@c...> wrote:
            > I have a another option to paying $40 bucks for a wooden bucket if
            you like. I am very new to distilling but I have been making Native
            American crafts out of wood for years. One such is the 8 sided
            Buffalo drum. Now, with that preface, I too wanted to age my
            product is a charred oak cask. I started out thinking I needed to
            learn how to cooper my own barrels when I had a moment of (relative)
            coherent thought. Booze cannot tell the diference between "round'
            and "octagonal". I suddenly realised that it probably cannot tell
            the diference between 8 sides and 4 sides either. I now have 2
            oak "boxes" that hold about 2 gallons each. (I am a small timer) I
            used rabbit joint dadoes on all seams and pegged with birch dowels.
            The lid is the same but the dowels are left long so I can take the
            top off to re char the inner surface. I drilled a 2 inch hole in
            this "lid" for a bung and a 3/4 inch hole at the bottom of one side
            of the box for a wooden spigot I bought for $5.00 US at a wine supply
            shop. The wood soaks up a little product but I think after a short
            time this won't be a concern. Lee
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: tfurey7
            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:48 AM
            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
            >
            >
            > From: homedistiller
            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:13 AM
            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
            >
            >
            > Hi Bert,
            >
            > Although I would love it to own a small oak barrel for
            experimenting
            >
            =====================================================================
            >
            >
            > If you really want a small oak barrel you can find a company
            called
            > Thousand Oaks Barrel Co. on the web. I bought a new 1.5gal barrel
            > from them on Ebay for $40.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Tim
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to distillers-
            unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
            > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • Lee Fugatt
            I don t understand the reference but as I have said the box starts out very tight because I pretty much know how to make a tight joint. I think I will lose a
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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              I don't understand the reference but as I have said the box starts out very tight because I pretty much know how to make a tight joint. I think I will lose a little product as the wood swells even tighter but not much. I will scrounge up a digital camera and load some photos. Lee
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Frederick Christiansen
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:49 AM
              Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


              Lee, I have one question, what is in the box while it is swelling? If
              you use your distilled product, you may be a copper after all. - Derf

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Lee Fugatt [mailto:lpndolfn@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:08 AM
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"

              The "lid" is the same as the sides and has to be "Tapped" into place and
              pegged. I can then stack the box on any side and it won't leak after the
              joint is swollen. as to re char after each use. I don't know. I am
              new at this stuff and I just casked my first full 2 gallons last week.
              Lee
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: tfurey7
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:04 AM
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


              Hi Lee,
              Great idea, I wish I had thought of it before I bought the keg.
              One question: With the removable lid how do you keep it airtight?
              One more question: Do you have to re-char the inside after each use?

              Cheers,
              Tim


              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Fugatt" <lpndolfn@c...> wrote:
              > I have a another option to paying $40 bucks for a wooden bucket if
              you like. I am very new to distilling but I have been making Native
              American crafts out of wood for years. One such is the 8 sided
              Buffalo drum. Now, with that preface, I too wanted to age my
              product is a charred oak cask. I started out thinking I needed to
              learn how to cooper my own barrels when I had a moment of (relative)
              coherent thought. Booze cannot tell the diference between "round'
              and "octagonal". I suddenly realised that it probably cannot tell
              the diference between 8 sides and 4 sides either. I now have 2
              oak "boxes" that hold about 2 gallons each. (I am a small timer) I
              used rabbit joint dadoes on all seams and pegged with birch dowels.
              The lid is the same but the dowels are left long so I can take the
              top off to re char the inner surface. I drilled a 2 inch hole in
              this "lid" for a bung and a 3/4 inch hole at the bottom of one side
              of the box for a wooden spigot I bought for $5.00 US at a wine supply
              shop. The wood soaks up a little product but I think after a short
              time this won't be a concern. Lee
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: tfurey7
              > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:48 AM
              > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
              >
              >
              > From: homedistiller
              > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:13 AM
              > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
              >
              >
              > Hi Bert,
              >
              > Although I would love it to own a small oak barrel for
              experimenting
              >
              =====================================================================
              >
              >
              > If you really want a small oak barrel you can find a company
              called
              > Thousand Oaks Barrel Co. on the web. I bought a new 1.5gal barrel
              > from them on Ebay for $40.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Tim
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to distillers-
              unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
              > FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




              To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to
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              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Austin Smith
              I just reading the prep for a new oak barrel. They recommended filling it with water to let it swell, replacing the water as it leaked out. When it stopped
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                I just reading the "prep" for a new oak barrel. They recommended filling it with water to let it swell, replacing the water as it leaked out. When it stopped leaking, dump the water and fill it with spirits.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • tfurey7
                That s correct, I submerged mine in a large pot for three days and now it is sitting in it s stand filled with water. I ll leave it that way until I m ready to
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  That's correct, I submerged mine in a large pot for three days and
                  now it is sitting in it's stand filled with water. I'll leave it that
                  way until I'm ready to fill it with something more to my liking.

                  I don't like water that much, too much of it ruins a good drink ;)

                  Cheers,
                  Tim


                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Austin Smith" <asmith1@b...>
                  wrote:
                  > I just reading the "prep" for a new oak barrel. They recommended
                  filling it with water to let it swell, replacing the water as it
                  leaked out. When it stopped leaking, dump the water and fill it with
                  spirits.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Frederick Christiansen
                  Lee, I m by no means an old timer at this myself. When I read your assessment of the booze no being aware of the shape of the container, I thought how simply
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Lee, I'm by no means an old timer at this myself. When I read your
                    assessment of the booze no being aware of the shape of the container, I
                    thought how simply brilliant. However, my question was based on my own
                    inept wood working ability; I've never tried this so I'm questioning my
                    ability to get all the joints tight enough.

                    But another question, what was the proof of the product? My reason for
                    the question is I recently took a tour of the Jack Daniels distillery
                    and they distill out to around 140 proof and then filter through their
                    sugar maple charcoal and then into the barrels. They calculated their
                    alcohol loss to evaporation in the barrels, and in 5 or 6 years they
                    bottle at 80 proof.

                    One thing you may want to consider, the Jack Daniels distillery produces
                    a premium line called Top Shelf, and this is from the top layer of
                    barrels only. While I have not tasted this product, a little to premium
                    for me, Daniels rationale is these barrels experience the greatest
                    variations in storage conditions. They get the warmest and they get the
                    coldest during their aging period and thusly acquire a special quality.
                    - Derf

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Lee Fugatt [mailto:lpndolfn@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:18 PM
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"

                    I don't understand the reference but as I have said the box starts out
                    very tight because I pretty much know how to make a tight joint. I
                    think I will lose a little product as the wood swells even tighter but
                    not much. I will scrounge up a digital camera and load some photos.
                    Lee
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Frederick Christiansen
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:49 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


                    Lee, I have one question, what is in the box while it is swelling? If
                    you use your distilled product, you may be a copper after all. - Derf

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Lee Fugatt [mailto:lpndolfn@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:08 AM
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"

                    The "lid" is the same as the sides and has to be "Tapped" into place
                    and
                    pegged. I can then stack the box on any side and it won't leak after
                    the
                    joint is swollen. as to re char after each use. I don't know. I am
                    new at this stuff and I just casked my first full 2 gallons last week.
                    Lee
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: tfurey7
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:04 AM
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


                    Hi Lee,
                    Great idea, I wish I had thought of it before I bought the keg.
                    One question: With the removable lid how do you keep it airtight?
                    One more question: Do you have to re-char the inside after each use?

                    Cheers,
                    Tim


                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Fugatt" <lpndolfn@c...>
                    wrote:
                    > I have a another option to paying $40 bucks for a wooden bucket if

                    you like. I am very new to distilling but I have been making Native

                    American crafts out of wood for years. One such is the 8 sided
                    Buffalo drum. Now, with that preface, I too wanted to age my
                    product is a charred oak cask. I started out thinking I needed to
                    learn how to cooper my own barrels when I had a moment of (relative)

                    coherent thought. Booze cannot tell the diference between "round'
                    and "octagonal". I suddenly realised that it probably cannot tell
                    the diference between 8 sides and 4 sides either. I now have 2
                    oak "boxes" that hold about 2 gallons each. (I am a small timer) I
                    used rabbit joint dadoes on all seams and pegged with birch dowels.
                    The lid is the same but the dowels are left long so I can take the
                    top off to re char the inner surface. I drilled a 2 inch hole in
                    this "lid" for a bung and a 3/4 inch hole at the bottom of one side
                    of the box for a wooden spigot I bought for $5.00 US at a wine
                    supply
                    shop. The wood soaks up a little product but I think after a short

                    time this won't be a concern. Lee
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: tfurey7
                    > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:48 AM
                    > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
                    >
                    >
                    > From: homedistiller
                    > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:13 AM
                    > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Bert,
                    >
                    > Although I would love it to own a small oak barrel for
                    experimenting
                    >

                    =====================================================================
                    >
                    >
                    > If you really want a small oak barrel you can find a company
                    called
                    > Thousand Oaks Barrel Co. on the web. I bought a new 1.5gal
                    barrel
                    > from them on Ebay for $40.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Tim
                    >
                    >
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                    Service.
                    >
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                    >
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                  • Harry
                    ... that ... AND you can see what it does to the bottom of boats. AND y know what fish do in it. ;-) Slainte! regards Harry
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tfurey7" <tfurey7@y...> wrote:
                      > That's correct, I submerged mine in a large pot for three days and
                      > now it is sitting in it's stand filled with water. I'll leave it
                      that
                      > way until I'm ready to fill it with something more to my liking.
                      >
                      > I don't like water that much, too much of it ruins a good drink ;)
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Tim


                      AND you can see what it does to the bottom of boats. AND y'know
                      what fish do in it. ;-)


                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • vojeto
                      It s an idea that screams out to be tried. Do any Australians on the list know if Tasmanian Oak would be a suitable timber? It s the timber usually
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It's an idea that screams out to be tried. Do any Australians on the
                        list know if Tasmanian Oak would be a suitable timber? It's the
                        timber usually recommended (in this part of the world) for things
                        like wine presses. Are there are other (Australian) timbers that
                        would be suitable/better?

                        Cheers
                        JRae

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Frederick Christiansen
                        <frederick.christiansen@m...> wrote:
                        > Lee, I'm by no means an old timer at this myself. When I read your
                        > assessment of the booze no being aware of the shape of the
                        container, I
                        > thought how simply brilliant. However, my question was based on my
                        own
                        > inept wood working ability; I've never tried this so I'm
                        questioning my
                        > ability to get all the joints tight enough.
                      • bertsaal
                        Hallo lee and they others First I was thinking making somekind of box myself. Its a very good idea. I thought to close the joints with epoxy-glue (for
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hallo lee and they others

                          First I was thinking making somekind of box myself. Its a very good idea. I thought to close the joints with epoxy-glue (for watertanks) or siliconen (like an aquarium). But a drink you put in a little box has a lot of contact with the surface of the oak and i wonder if that is good for the quality at the end or is it unintentional speeding things up. That is the reason i started thinking to make a container that is partial made of glass to get its breathingspace in proportion of a 300 liter cask. A lot of chemical reaktions are taking place in there, but do they need time to happen or can it also happen in a quick oakdip.

                          bert

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Frederick Christiansen
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 10:08 PM
                          Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


                          Lee, I'm by no means an old timer at this myself. When I read your
                          assessment of the booze no being aware of the shape of the container, I
                          thought how simply brilliant. However, my question was based on my own
                          inept wood working ability; I've never tried this so I'm questioning my
                          ability to get all the joints tight enough.

                          But another question, what was the proof of the product? My reason for
                          the question is I recently took a tour of the Jack Daniels distillery
                          and they distill out to around 140 proof and then filter through their
                          sugar maple charcoal and then into the barrels. They calculated their
                          alcohol loss to evaporation in the barrels, and in 5 or 6 years they
                          bottle at 80 proof.

                          One thing you may want to consider, the Jack Daniels distillery produces
                          a premium line called Top Shelf, and this is from the top layer of
                          barrels only. While I have not tasted this product, a little to premium
                          for me, Daniels rationale is these barrels experience the greatest
                          variations in storage conditions. They get the warmest and they get the
                          coldest during their aging period and thusly acquire a special quality.
                          - Derf

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Lee Fugatt [mailto:lpndolfn@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:18 PM
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"

                          I don't understand the reference but as I have said the box starts out
                          very tight because I pretty much know how to make a tight joint. I
                          think I will lose a little product as the wood swells even tighter but
                          not much. I will scrounge up a digital camera and load some photos.
                          Lee
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Frederick Christiansen
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:49 AM
                          Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


                          Lee, I have one question, what is in the box while it is swelling? If
                          you use your distilled product, you may be a copper after all. - Derf

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Lee Fugatt [mailto:lpndolfn@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:08 AM
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"

                          The "lid" is the same as the sides and has to be "Tapped" into place
                          and
                          pegged. I can then stack the box on any side and it won't leak after
                          the
                          joint is swollen. as to re char after each use. I don't know. I am
                          new at this stuff and I just casked my first full 2 gallons last week.
                          Lee
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: tfurey7
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 6:04 AM
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"


                          Hi Lee,
                          Great idea, I wish I had thought of it before I bought the keg.
                          One question: With the removable lid how do you keep it airtight?
                          One more question: Do you have to re-char the inside after each use?

                          Cheers,
                          Tim


                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Fugatt" <lpndolfn@c...>
                          wrote:
                          > I have a another option to paying $40 bucks for a wooden bucket if

                          you like. I am very new to distilling but I have been making Native

                          American crafts out of wood for years. One such is the 8 sided
                          Buffalo drum. Now, with that preface, I too wanted to age my
                          product is a charred oak cask. I started out thinking I needed to
                          learn how to cooper my own barrels when I had a moment of (relative)

                          coherent thought. Booze cannot tell the diference between "round'
                          and "octagonal". I suddenly realised that it probably cannot tell
                          the diference between 8 sides and 4 sides either. I now have 2
                          oak "boxes" that hold about 2 gallons each. (I am a small timer) I
                          used rabbit joint dadoes on all seams and pegged with birch dowels.
                          The lid is the same but the dowels are left long so I can take the
                          top off to re char the inner surface. I drilled a 2 inch hole in
                          this "lid" for a bung and a 3/4 inch hole at the bottom of one side
                          of the box for a wooden spigot I bought for $5.00 US at a wine
                          supply
                          shop. The wood soaks up a little product but I think after a short

                          time this won't be a concern. Lee
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: tfurey7
                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:48 AM
                          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
                          >
                          >
                          > From: homedistiller
                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 12:13 AM
                          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: a small "big oak cask"
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Bert,
                          >
                          > Although I would love it to own a small oak barrel for
                          experimenting
                          >

                          =====================================================================
                          >
                          >
                          > If you really want a small oak barrel you can find a company
                          called
                          > Thousand Oaks Barrel Co. on the web. I bought a new 1.5gal
                          barrel
                          > from them on Ebay for $40.
                          >
                          > Cheers,
                          > Tim
                          >
                          >
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                          >
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                          Service.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                        • John Nicol
                          Hello Frederick, Tuesday, December 2, 2003, 3:08:58 PM, you wrote: Do you live in TN? I live very close to the JD distillery. FC But another question, what
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
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                            Hello Frederick,

                            Tuesday, December 2, 2003, 3:08:58 PM, you wrote:

                            Do you live in TN? I live very close to the JD distillery.


                            FC> But another question, what was the proof of the product? My reason for
                            FC> the question is I recently took a tour of the Jack Daniels distillery
                            FC> and they distill out to around 140 proof and then filter through their
                            FC> sugar maple charcoal and then into the barrels. They calculated their
                            FC> alcohol loss to evaporation in the barrels, and in 5 or 6 years they
                            FC> bottle at 80 proof.


                            --
                            Best regards,
                            John mailto:nicol@...
                          • Boot
                            You d want to be careful mate. Tassie oak is a marketing name for Mountain Ash, which is Eucalyptus Regnans. Using Eucalyptus wood might have a significant
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 2, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You'd want to be careful mate. Tassie oak is a marketing name for Mountain
                              Ash, which is Eucalyptus Regnans. Using Eucalyptus wood might have a
                              significant effect on the flavour, and there's the issue of unknown
                              long-term toxicity too.

                              Hector said recently that someone over here had used Silky Oak with
                              success, but again, you take your chances with the unlikely possibility
                              that there's a toxicity concern. Silky Oak is Grevillia Robusta, which
                              grows in Queensland but is often found in parks and as a street tree here
                              in Melbourne. I don't know how available it is as sawn timber.

                              In principle any hardwood is a candidate for aging, though oak has the
                              advantage of being proven. I'm using North American Pin Oak shavings from a
                              fallen street tree I was lucky enough to notice -- and it's great. Whatever
                              you do, don't try softwood from conifers. It's unsuitable. I think there
                              could be health issues with the resins in them.

                              Cheers,

                              Boot

                              >It's an idea that screams out to be tried. Do any Australians on the
                              >list know if Tasmanian Oak would be a suitable timber? It's the
                              >timber usually recommended (in this part of the world) for things
                              >like wine presses. Are there are other (Australian) timbers that
                              >would be suitable/better?
                              >
                              >Cheers
                              >JRae
                            • Hector A. Landaeta C.
                              ... Hola Boot! Yes I did! I wish I could tell the name of the guy. He wrote to me in the DBD (Distilled Beverage Digest), like 5 years ago. He wrote he was
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 7, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On 12/2/03 11:10 PM, "Boot" <mr.boot@...> wrote:

                                > Hector said recently that someone over here had used Silky Oak with
                                > success, but again, you take your chances with the unlikely possibility
                                > that there's a toxicity concern.
                                >
                                Hola Boot!
                                Yes I did! I wish I could tell the name of the guy. He wrote to me in the
                                DBD (Distilled Beverage Digest), like 5 years ago. He wrote he was old. 72
                                years if I¹m not wrong, and was distilling every week (and enjoying the
                                fruits of his work as well). I think he knew Tony because he was one of the
                                guys who told me about this list. He specifically said that he had been
                                using that wood ³for ages² (you Aussies have a way with hyperbola), and that
                                many moonshiners (what is your local term for this?) of old there used it
                                before him. But I don¹t remember it as ³Silky² but ³Silly² oak.
                                Salud!
                                --
                                Hector Landaeta.
                                Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • vojeto
                                FWIW, I recently got this email from the Timber Development Association of South Australia when I left an inquiry at their website Cheers JRae
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 7, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  FWIW, I recently got this email from the Timber Development
                                  Association of South Australia when I left an inquiry at their website

                                  Cheers
                                  JRae

                                  ===========================================================
                                  Gidday John. Toxicity is not an issue in the sense that wood will
                                  harm you. Some trees contain harmful or even poisonous substances,
                                  but only in the sap or the leaves. It is correct that Tasmanian oak
                                  is not a true oak, but a mixture of several eucalypt species which
                                  are very similar to one another. However, that doesn't mean it isn't
                                  suitable for wine making. In fact, a reference in our library
                                  suggests that "mountain and alpine ash and messmate stringybark are
                                  the main [Australian] species used [for wine casks]". These are the
                                  three species marketed commercially as Tasmanian oak. The same
                                  reference says "karri and jarrah have also been used for wine vats".
                                  PETER LLEWELLYN ("Harry & Sal")
                                  Timber Development Association of South Australia
                                  ===========================================================
                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Hector A. Landaeta C."
                                  <coloniera@c...> wrote:
                                  > On 12/2/03 11:10 PM, "Boot" <mr.boot@o...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Hector said recently that someone over here had used Silky Oak
                                  with
                                  > > success, but again, you take your chances with the unlikely
                                  possibility
                                  > > that there's a toxicity concern.
                                  > >
                                  > Hola Boot!
                                  > Yes I did! I wish I could tell the name of the guy. He wrote to
                                  me in the
                                  > DBD (Distilled Beverage Digest), like 5 years ago. He wrote he was
                                  old. 72
                                  > years if I¹m not wrong, and was distilling every week (and enjoying
                                  the
                                  > fruits of his work as well). I think he knew Tony because he was
                                  one of the
                                  > guys who told me about this list. He specifically said that he had
                                  been
                                  > using that wood ³for ages² (you Aussies have a way with hyperbola),
                                  and that
                                  > many moonshiners (what is your local term for this?) of old there
                                  used it
                                  > before him. But I don¹t remember it as ³Silky² but ³Silly² oak.
                                  > Salud!
                                  > --
                                  > Hector Landaeta.
                                  > Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Harry
                                  ... website ... oak ... isn t ... are ... the ... vats . ... I think Peter Llewellyn might want to have another look at that statement about poisonous
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 7, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "vojeto" <vojeto@y...> wrote:
                                    > FWIW, I recently got this email from the Timber Development
                                    > Association of South Australia when I left an inquiry at their
                                    website
                                    >
                                    > Cheers
                                    > JRae
                                    >
                                    > ===========================================================
                                    > Gidday John. Toxicity is not an issue in the sense that wood will
                                    > harm you. Some trees contain harmful or even poisonous substances,
                                    > but only in the sap or the leaves. It is correct that Tasmanian
                                    oak
                                    > is not a true oak, but a mixture of several eucalypt species which
                                    > are very similar to one another. However, that doesn't mean it
                                    isn't
                                    > suitable for wine making. In fact, a reference in our library
                                    > suggests that "mountain and alpine ash and messmate stringybark
                                    are
                                    > the main [Australian] species used [for wine casks]". These are
                                    the
                                    > three species marketed commercially as Tasmanian oak. The same
                                    > reference says "karri and jarrah have also been used for wine
                                    vats".
                                    > PETER LLEWELLYN ("Harry & Sal")
                                    > Timber Development Association of South Australia
                                    > ===========================================================

                                    I think Peter Llewellyn might want to have another look at that
                                    statement about poisonous substances only being in the leaves and
                                    sap. The Australian Blackwood (Acacia melanoxylon)has been used in
                                    the past for cooperage (barrels), as seen here in 'uses'...
                                    http://www.windsorplywood.com/tropical_woods/australianbl.html

                                    but according to the World AgroForestry Database, this tree has a
                                    poison in the WOOD (acamelin and 2,6-dimethoxyl-4 benzoquinone)that
                                    causes allergic contact dermatitis and bronchial asthma to people
                                    working with the wood. See here under 'Functional Uses'...
                                    http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/Sites/TreeDBS/Aft/speciesinfo.
                                    cfm?SpID=71


                                    Slainte!
                                    regards Harry
                                  • Tarvus
                                    ... place and pegged. I can then stack the box on any side and it won t leak after the joint is swollen. as to re char after each use. I don t know. I am
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 8, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Fugatt" <lpndolfn@c...> wrote:
                                      > The "lid" is the same as the sides and has to be "Tapped" into
                                      place and pegged. I can then stack the box on any side and it won't
                                      leak after the joint is swollen. as to re char after each use. I
                                      don't know. I am new at this stuff and I just casked my first full 2
                                      gallons last week. Lee

                                      Sounds like a great idea Lee!
                                      Please describe how you charred the inside of the box - propane
                                      torch? Burning charcoal? Also, can you tell us how deeply the box is
                                      charred.

                                      Thanks again for a great idea!
                                      Tarvus
                                    • waljaco
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 8, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
                                        > I think that Australian woods are only used for the vats used for
                                        > primary fermentation in the same way that larch (pinus) is used for
                                        > whisky.To my knowledge only French and US oaks are used for aging wine.
                                        > Italians use other woods such as ash and walnut(?) for grappa aging.
                                        > Wal
                                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@y...> wrote:
                                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "vojeto" <vojeto@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > FWIW, I recently got this email from the Timber Development
                                        > > > Association of South Australia when I left an inquiry at their
                                        > > website
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Cheers
                                        > > > JRae
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ===========================================================
                                        > > > Gidday John. Toxicity is not an issue in the sense that wood will
                                        > > > harm you. Some trees contain harmful or even poisonous substances,
                                        > > > but only in the sap or the leaves. It is correct that Tasmanian
                                        > > oak
                                        > > > is not a true oak, but a mixture of several eucalypt species which
                                        > > > are very similar to one another. However, that doesn't mean it
                                        > > isn't
                                        > > > suitable for wine making. In fact, a reference in our library
                                        > > > suggests that "mountain and alpine ash and messmate stringybark
                                        > > are
                                        > > > the main [Australian] species used [for wine casks]". These are
                                        > > the
                                        > > > three species marketed commercially as Tasmanian oak. The same
                                        > > > reference says "karri and jarrah have also been used for wine
                                        > > vats".
                                        > > > PETER LLEWELLYN ("Harry & Sal")
                                        > > > Timber Development Association of South Australia
                                        > > > ===========================================================
                                        > >
                                        > > I think Peter Llewellyn might want to have another look at that
                                        > > statement about poisonous substances only being in the leaves and
                                        > > sap. The Australian Blackwood (Acacia melanoxylon)has been used in
                                        > > the past for cooperage (barrels), as seen here in 'uses'...
                                        > > http://www.windsorplywood.com/tropical_woods/australianbl.html
                                        > >
                                        > > but according to the World AgroForestry Database, this tree has a
                                        > > poison in the WOOD (acamelin and 2,6-dimethoxyl-4 benzoquinone)that
                                        > > causes allergic contact dermatitis and bronchial asthma to people
                                        > > working with the wood. See here under 'Functional Uses'...
                                        > > http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/Sites/TreeDBS/Aft/speciesinfo.
                                        > > cfm?SpID=71
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Slainte!
                                        > > regards Harry
                                      • Boot
                                        ... G day Hector (love your posts, and always read them word for word). We use the term moonshiners here too -- I think it s an old English word referring to
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 8, 2003
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                                          >many moonshiners (what is your local term for this?)

                                          G'day Hector (love your posts, and always read them word for word).

                                          We use the term "moonshiners" here too -- I think it's an old English word
                                          referring to the practice of distilling by night to avoid capture. However,
                                          the local term for moonshiners and bootleggers is "sly groggers". These
                                          days it is mostly used to refer to those who traffic illegal alcohol into
                                          "dry" aboriginal communities, but it's a term I otherwise enjoy and accept
                                          with gratitude.

                                          >But I don¹t remember it as ³Silky² but ³Silly² oak.

                                          This is probably a typo in the original post or perhaps in your memory!
                                          There's not such timber as a "Silly Oak". It should definitely be "Silky
                                          Oak", a well-known large tree here that is currently displaying its lovely
                                          orange flowers around where I Iive.

                                          ... Although, considering the application, "Silly Oak" is not such a bad term.

                                          Cheers,

                                          Boot
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