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Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

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  • abbababbaccc
    Assuming you build a column without reflux head and have it properly insulated there s no reflux and the result is essentially the same as no column at all.
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
      Assuming you build a column without reflux head and have it properly
      insulated there's no reflux and the result is essentially the same as
      no column at all. Uninsulated column let's vapors condense on the
      column inner surface and provides reflux that way. However, it's not
      as efficient as having all the reflux appear at the top of the
      packing and flow down. Top down approach utilizes all the packing for
      re-evaporation and recondensing cycle while sidecondensing utilizes
      only part of the packing (not to mention channeling at the column
      surface) and somewhat disturbs the equilibrium.

      BTW, my LM rig has 1.4 meters of packing and it works well with low
      reflux ratios.

      Greetz, Riku

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
      wrote:
      > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would be
      > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
      the
      > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
      am
      > I totally getting it wrong?
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
      > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
      to
      > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what you
      > want.
      > >
      > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build a
      > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality and
      > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
      run.
      > Or? Regards Stronk
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I can be wrong I must say
      > > Cheers, Alex...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • BOKAKOB
      in my opinion simply put - NO w_upnorth wrote: Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
        in my opinion simply put - NO

        w_upnorth <w_upnorth@...> wrote:
        Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
        25mm "T" adapted to
        50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
        hole, a slight angel to flow
        product towards needle valves for reflux and take off. Would the
        gained height in the column be worth it?


        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
        wrote:
        > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
        > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
        > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
        > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
        >
        > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
        >
        > Regards
        >
        > Stronk
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
        > <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
        > > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
        > > necessary!
        > >
        > > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
        > amount
        > > of stages.
        > > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
        > > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
        > >
        > > Again I refer to:
        > > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
        > >
        > > Check table 4
        > >
        > > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
        > energy
        > > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > > Dirk
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
        > <stronkus2003@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
        > be
        > > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
        > > the
        > > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
        > > am
        > > > I totally getting it wrong?
        > > >
        > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
        > > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
        > > to
        > > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
        > you
        > > > want.
        > > > >
        > > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
        > a
        > > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
        > and
        > > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
        > > run.
        > > > Or? Regards Stronk
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > I can be wrong I must say
        > > > > Cheers, Alex...
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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        I can be wrong I must say
        Cheers, Alex...



        ---------------------------------
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mike Nixon
        w_upnorth wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ? Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
          w_upnorth wrote:
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

          Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm "T"
          adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
          relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves for reflux
          and take off. Would the
          gained height in the column be worth it?
          =========================
          Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle so the
          liquid runs the way you want it to.
          The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just that, and
          occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.

          Mike N
        • nanosleep
          It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return. Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!! ... 25mm T ... for reflux ... so
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
            It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.

            Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!!


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
            > w_upnorth wrote:
            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?
            >
            > Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
            25mm "T"
            > adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
            > relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves
            for reflux
            > and take off. Would the
            > gained height in the column be worth it?
            > =========================
            > Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle
            so the
            > liquid runs the way you want it to.
            > The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just
            that, and
            > occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.
            >
            > Mike N
          • Mike Nixon
            nanosleep wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ? It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return. Why not just distill twice? Instant
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
              nanosleep wrote:
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

              It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.

              Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!!
              =======================
              Because it is a hobby, NS. Part of the enjoyment of a hobby, for me anyway,
              is seeing if I can push the boundaries of our knowledge a bit further.
              Gardeners spend years looking for the perfect rose. Sports people seek to
              beat their own personal best records. It's fun! :-)

              All the best,
              Mike N
              =======================

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
              > w_upnorth wrote:
              > Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?
              >
              > Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
              25mm "T"
              > adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
              > relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves
              for reflux
              > and take off. Would the
              > gained height in the column be worth it?
              > =========================
              > Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle
              so the
              > liquid runs the way you want it to.
              > The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just
              that, and
              > occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.
              >
              > Mike N


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            • homedistiller
              Nanosleep, It depends what one likes. I really would enjoy an entire batch being finished in one hour! I really would enjoy a small-diameter-continuous-still
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 2, 2003
                Nanosleep,

                It depends what one likes.

                I really would enjoy an entire batch being finished in one hour!

                I really would enjoy a small-diameter-continuous-still of, let's say,
                5 or 6 meters high, nicely chugging along!

                Wouldn't you ?

                Regards,
                Dirk





                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...> wrote:
                > It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.
                >
                > Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column
                height!!!!
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