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Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

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  • stronkus2003
    Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a column head as short
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
      height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
      column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
      possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.

      Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....

      Regards

      Stronk

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
      <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
      > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
      > necessary!
      >
      > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
      amount
      > of stages.
      > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
      > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
      >
      > Again I refer to:
      > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
      >
      > Check table 4
      >
      > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
      energy
      > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Dirk
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
      <stronkus2003@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
      be
      > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
      > the
      > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
      > am
      > > I totally getting it wrong?
      > >
      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
      > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
      > to
      > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
      you
      > > want.
      > > >
      > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
      a
      > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
      and
      > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
      > run.
      > > Or? Regards Stronk
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I can be wrong I must say
      > > > Cheers, Alex...
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • homedistiller
      Stronk, I m afraid that just a few centimeters extra won t benefit THAT much. You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in the
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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        Stronk,

        I'm afraid that just a few centimeters extra won't benefit THAT much.

        You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in the
        ceiling/floor can easily provide for a double high column and even
        provide a much better acces to the reflux and distillate collection
        area!

        Dirk



        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
        wrote:
        > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
        > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build
        a
        > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
        > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
        >
        > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
        >
        > Regards
        >
        > Stronk
      • stronkus2003
        I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head if the wife sees a column
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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          I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned
          is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head if
          the wife sees a column emerge from the cellar into the kitchen...;-)

          Regards Stronk

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
          <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
          > Stronk,
          >
          > I'm afraid that just a few centimeters extra won't benefit THAT
          much.
          >
          > You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in
          the
          > ceiling/floor can easily provide for a double high column and even
          > provide a much better acces to the reflux and distillate collection
          > area!
          >
          > Dirk
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
          <stronkus2003@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a
          limited
          > > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to
          build
          > a
          > > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
          > > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
          > >
          > > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
          > >
          > > Regards
          > >
          > > Stronk
        • homedistiller
          (LOL) Even better! To avoid that (indeed very crucial!) small hole in your head, (you could try to) explain your wife that you will extend the column even
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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            (LOL) Even better!

            To avoid that (indeed very crucial!) small hole in your head, (you
            could try to) explain your wife that you will extend the column even
            higher!

            You could even let her choose the colour of the surrounding box, that
            is absolutely necessary to insulate the column!

            Regards,
            Dirk


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
            wrote:
            > I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned
            > is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head
            if
            > the wife sees a column emerge from the cellar into the kitchen...;-)
            >
            > Regards Stronk
          • w_upnorth
            Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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              Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
              25mm "T" adapted to
              50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
              hole, a slight angel to flow
              product towards needle valves for reflux and take off. Would the
              gained height in the column be worth it?


              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
              wrote:
              > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
              > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
              > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
              > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
              >
              > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Stronk
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
              > <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
              > > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
              > > necessary!
              > >
              > > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
              > amount
              > > of stages.
              > > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
              > > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
              > >
              > > Again I refer to:
              > > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
              > >
              > > Check table 4
              > >
              > > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
              > energy
              > > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > > Dirk
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
              > <stronkus2003@y...>
              > > wrote:
              > > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
              > be
              > > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
              > > the
              > > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
              > > am
              > > > I totally getting it wrong?
              > > >
              > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
              > > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
              > > to
              > > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
              > you
              > > > want.
              > > > >
              > > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
              > a
              > > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
              > and
              > > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
              > > run.
              > > > Or? Regards Stronk
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > I can be wrong I must say
              > > > > Cheers, Alex...
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ---------------------------------
              > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • abbababbaccc
              Assuming you build a column without reflux head and have it properly insulated there s no reflux and the result is essentially the same as no column at all.
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                Assuming you build a column without reflux head and have it properly
                insulated there's no reflux and the result is essentially the same as
                no column at all. Uninsulated column let's vapors condense on the
                column inner surface and provides reflux that way. However, it's not
                as efficient as having all the reflux appear at the top of the
                packing and flow down. Top down approach utilizes all the packing for
                re-evaporation and recondensing cycle while sidecondensing utilizes
                only part of the packing (not to mention channeling at the column
                surface) and somewhat disturbs the equilibrium.

                BTW, my LM rig has 1.4 meters of packing and it works well with low
                reflux ratios.

                Greetz, Riku

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                wrote:
                > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would be
                > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
                the
                > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
                am
                > I totally getting it wrong?
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
                to
                > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what you
                > want.
                > >
                > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build a
                > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality and
                > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
                run.
                > Or? Regards Stronk
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I can be wrong I must say
                > > Cheers, Alex...
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • BOKAKOB
                in my opinion simply put - NO w_upnorth wrote: Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  in my opinion simply put - NO

                  w_upnorth <w_upnorth@...> wrote:
                  Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                  25mm "T" adapted to
                  50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
                  hole, a slight angel to flow
                  product towards needle valves for reflux and take off. Would the
                  gained height in the column be worth it?


                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
                  > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
                  > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
                  > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
                  >
                  > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
                  >
                  > Regards
                  >
                  > Stronk
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
                  > <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
                  > > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
                  > > necessary!
                  > >
                  > > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
                  > amount
                  > > of stages.
                  > > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
                  > > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
                  > >
                  > > Again I refer to:
                  > > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
                  > >
                  > > Check table 4
                  > >
                  > > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
                  > energy
                  > > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > > Dirk
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
                  > <stronkus2003@y...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
                  > be
                  > > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
                  > > the
                  > > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
                  > > am
                  > > > I totally getting it wrong?
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
                  > > to
                  > > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
                  > you
                  > > > want.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
                  > a
                  > > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
                  > and
                  > > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
                  > > run.
                  > > > Or? Regards Stronk
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I can be wrong I must say
                  > > > > Cheers, Alex...
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                  I can be wrong I must say
                  Cheers, Alex...



                  ---------------------------------
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                  Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mike Nixon
                  w_upnorth wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ? Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                    w_upnorth wrote:
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

                    Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm "T"
                    adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                    relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves for reflux
                    and take off. Would the
                    gained height in the column be worth it?
                    =========================
                    Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle so the
                    liquid runs the way you want it to.
                    The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just that, and
                    occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.

                    Mike N
                  • nanosleep
                    It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return. Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!! ... 25mm T ... for reflux ... so
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                      It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.

                      Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!!


                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                      > w_upnorth wrote:
                      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?
                      >
                      > Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                      25mm "T"
                      > adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                      > relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves
                      for reflux
                      > and take off. Would the
                      > gained height in the column be worth it?
                      > =========================
                      > Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle
                      so the
                      > liquid runs the way you want it to.
                      > The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just
                      that, and
                      > occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.
                      >
                      > Mike N
                    • Mike Nixon
                      nanosleep wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ? It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return. Why not just distill twice? Instant
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                        nanosleep wrote:
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

                        It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.

                        Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!!
                        =======================
                        Because it is a hobby, NS. Part of the enjoyment of a hobby, for me anyway,
                        is seeing if I can push the boundaries of our knowledge a bit further.
                        Gardeners spend years looking for the perfect rose. Sports people seek to
                        beat their own personal best records. It's fun! :-)

                        All the best,
                        Mike N
                        =======================

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                        > w_upnorth wrote:
                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?
                        >
                        > Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                        25mm "T"
                        > adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                        > relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves
                        for reflux
                        > and take off. Would the
                        > gained height in the column be worth it?
                        > =========================
                        > Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle
                        so the
                        > liquid runs the way you want it to.
                        > The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just
                        that, and
                        > occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.
                        >
                        > Mike N


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                      • homedistiller
                        Nanosleep, It depends what one likes. I really would enjoy an entire batch being finished in one hour! I really would enjoy a small-diameter-continuous-still
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 2, 2003
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                          Nanosleep,

                          It depends what one likes.

                          I really would enjoy an entire batch being finished in one hour!

                          I really would enjoy a small-diameter-continuous-still of, let's say,
                          5 or 6 meters high, nicely chugging along!

                          Wouldn't you ?

                          Regards,
                          Dirk





                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...> wrote:
                          > It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.
                          >
                          > Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column
                          height!!!!
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