Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

Expand Messages
  • homedistiller
    Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always necessary! Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the amount of stages.
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
      necessary!

      Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the amount
      of stages.
      More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
      Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.

      Again I refer to:
      http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html

      Check table 4

      Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less energy
      consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.

      Regards,
      Dirk






      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
      wrote:
      > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would be
      > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
      the
      > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
      am
      > I totally getting it wrong?
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
      > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
      to
      > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what you
      > want.
      > >
      > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build a
      > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality and
      > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
      run.
      > Or? Regards Stronk
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I can be wrong I must say
      > > Cheers, Alex...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • stronkus2003
      Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a column head as short
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
        height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
        column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
        possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.

        Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....

        Regards

        Stronk

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
        <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
        > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
        > necessary!
        >
        > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
        amount
        > of stages.
        > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
        > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
        >
        > Again I refer to:
        > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
        >
        > Check table 4
        >
        > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
        energy
        > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
        >
        > Regards,
        > Dirk
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
        <stronkus2003@y...>
        > wrote:
        > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
        be
        > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
        > the
        > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
        > am
        > > I totally getting it wrong?
        > >
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
        > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
        > to
        > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
        you
        > > want.
        > > >
        > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
        a
        > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
        and
        > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
        > run.
        > > Or? Regards Stronk
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I can be wrong I must say
        > > > Cheers, Alex...
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------
        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • homedistiller
        Stronk, I m afraid that just a few centimeters extra won t benefit THAT much. You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in the
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Stronk,

          I'm afraid that just a few centimeters extra won't benefit THAT much.

          You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in the
          ceiling/floor can easily provide for a double high column and even
          provide a much better acces to the reflux and distillate collection
          area!

          Dirk



          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
          wrote:
          > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
          > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build
          a
          > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
          > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
          >
          > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
          >
          > Regards
          >
          > Stronk
        • stronkus2003
          I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head if the wife sees a column
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned
            is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head if
            the wife sees a column emerge from the cellar into the kitchen...;-)

            Regards Stronk

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
            <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
            > Stronk,
            >
            > I'm afraid that just a few centimeters extra won't benefit THAT
            much.
            >
            > You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in
            the
            > ceiling/floor can easily provide for a double high column and even
            > provide a much better acces to the reflux and distillate collection
            > area!
            >
            > Dirk
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
            <stronkus2003@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a
            limited
            > > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to
            build
            > a
            > > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
            > > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
            > >
            > > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
            > >
            > > Regards
            > >
            > > Stronk
          • homedistiller
            (LOL) Even better! To avoid that (indeed very crucial!) small hole in your head, (you could try to) explain your wife that you will extend the column even
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              (LOL) Even better!

              To avoid that (indeed very crucial!) small hole in your head, (you
              could try to) explain your wife that you will extend the column even
              higher!

              You could even let her choose the colour of the surrounding box, that
              is absolutely necessary to insulate the column!

              Regards,
              Dirk


              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
              wrote:
              > I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned
              > is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head
              if
              > the wife sees a column emerge from the cellar into the kitchen...;-)
              >
              > Regards Stronk
            • w_upnorth
              Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                25mm "T" adapted to
                50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
                hole, a slight angel to flow
                product towards needle valves for reflux and take off. Would the
                gained height in the column be worth it?


                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                wrote:
                > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
                > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
                > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
                > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
                >
                > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
                >
                > Regards
                >
                > Stronk
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
                > <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
                > > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
                > > necessary!
                > >
                > > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
                > amount
                > > of stages.
                > > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
                > > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
                > >
                > > Again I refer to:
                > > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
                > >
                > > Check table 4
                > >
                > > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
                > energy
                > > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > > Dirk
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
                > <stronkus2003@y...>
                > > wrote:
                > > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
                > be
                > > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
                > > the
                > > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
                > > am
                > > > I totally getting it wrong?
                > > >
                > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                > > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
                > > to
                > > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
                > you
                > > > want.
                > > > >
                > > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
                > a
                > > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
                > and
                > > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
                > > run.
                > > > Or? Regards Stronk
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > I can be wrong I must say
                > > > > Cheers, Alex...
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ---------------------------------
                > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • abbababbaccc
                Assuming you build a column without reflux head and have it properly insulated there s no reflux and the result is essentially the same as no column at all.
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Assuming you build a column without reflux head and have it properly
                  insulated there's no reflux and the result is essentially the same as
                  no column at all. Uninsulated column let's vapors condense on the
                  column inner surface and provides reflux that way. However, it's not
                  as efficient as having all the reflux appear at the top of the
                  packing and flow down. Top down approach utilizes all the packing for
                  re-evaporation and recondensing cycle while sidecondensing utilizes
                  only part of the packing (not to mention channeling at the column
                  surface) and somewhat disturbs the equilibrium.

                  BTW, my LM rig has 1.4 meters of packing and it works well with low
                  reflux ratios.

                  Greetz, Riku

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would be
                  > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
                  the
                  > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
                  am
                  > I totally getting it wrong?
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                  > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
                  to
                  > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what you
                  > want.
                  > >
                  > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build a
                  > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality and
                  > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
                  run.
                  > Or? Regards Stronk
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I can be wrong I must say
                  > > Cheers, Alex...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • BOKAKOB
                  in my opinion simply put - NO w_upnorth wrote: Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    in my opinion simply put - NO

                    w_upnorth <w_upnorth@...> wrote:
                    Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                    25mm "T" adapted to
                    50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
                    hole, a slight angel to flow
                    product towards needle valves for reflux and take off. Would the
                    gained height in the column be worth it?


                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
                    > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
                    > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
                    > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
                    >
                    > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
                    >
                    > Regards
                    >
                    > Stronk
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
                    > <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
                    > > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
                    > > necessary!
                    > >
                    > > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
                    > amount
                    > > of stages.
                    > > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
                    > > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
                    > >
                    > > Again I refer to:
                    > > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
                    > >
                    > > Check table 4
                    > >
                    > > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
                    > energy
                    > > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > > Dirk
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
                    > <stronkus2003@y...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
                    > be
                    > > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
                    > > the
                    > > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
                    > > am
                    > > > I totally getting it wrong?
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
                    > > to
                    > > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
                    > you
                    > > > want.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
                    > a
                    > > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
                    > and
                    > > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
                    > > run.
                    > > > Or? Regards Stronk
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I can be wrong I must say
                    > > > > Cheers, Alex...
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ---------------------------------
                    > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                    Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

                    To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                    FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




                    I can be wrong I must say
                    Cheers, Alex...



                    ---------------------------------
                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mike Nixon
                    w_upnorth wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ? Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      w_upnorth wrote:
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

                      Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm "T"
                      adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                      relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves for reflux
                      and take off. Would the
                      gained height in the column be worth it?
                      =========================
                      Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle so the
                      liquid runs the way you want it to.
                      The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just that, and
                      occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.

                      Mike N
                    • nanosleep
                      It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return. Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!! ... 25mm T ... for reflux ... so
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.

                        Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!!


                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                        > w_upnorth wrote:
                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?
                        >
                        > Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                        25mm "T"
                        > adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                        > relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves
                        for reflux
                        > and take off. Would the
                        > gained height in the column be worth it?
                        > =========================
                        > Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle
                        so the
                        > liquid runs the way you want it to.
                        > The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just
                        that, and
                        > occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.
                        >
                        > Mike N
                      • Mike Nixon
                        nanosleep wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ? It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return. Why not just distill twice? Instant
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          nanosleep wrote:
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

                          It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.

                          Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!!
                          =======================
                          Because it is a hobby, NS. Part of the enjoyment of a hobby, for me anyway,
                          is seeing if I can push the boundaries of our knowledge a bit further.
                          Gardeners spend years looking for the perfect rose. Sports people seek to
                          beat their own personal best records. It's fun! :-)

                          All the best,
                          Mike N
                          =======================

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                          > w_upnorth wrote:
                          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?
                          >
                          > Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                          25mm "T"
                          > adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                          > relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves
                          for reflux
                          > and take off. Would the
                          > gained height in the column be worth it?
                          > =========================
                          > Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle
                          so the
                          > liquid runs the way you want it to.
                          > The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just
                          that, and
                          > occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.
                          >
                          > Mike N


                          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          ADVERTISEMENT




                          To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to
                          distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/
                          FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org

                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        • homedistiller
                          Nanosleep, It depends what one likes. I really would enjoy an entire batch being finished in one hour! I really would enjoy a small-diameter-continuous-still
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 2, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Nanosleep,

                            It depends what one likes.

                            I really would enjoy an entire batch being finished in one hour!

                            I really would enjoy a small-diameter-continuous-still of, let's say,
                            5 or 6 meters high, nicely chugging along!

                            Wouldn't you ?

                            Regards,
                            Dirk





                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...> wrote:
                            > It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.
                            >
                            > Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column
                            height!!!!
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.