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Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

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  • stronkus2003
    Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would be an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use the available space to
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would be
      an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use the
      available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or am
      I totally getting it wrong?

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
      > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler to
      the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what you
      want.
      >
      > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build a
      fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality and
      output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to run.
      Or? Regards Stronk
      >
      >
      >
      > I can be wrong I must say
      > Cheers, Alex...
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • homedistiller
      Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always necessary! Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the amount of stages.
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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        Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
        necessary!

        Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the amount
        of stages.
        More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
        Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.

        Again I refer to:
        http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html

        Check table 4

        Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less energy
        consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.

        Regards,
        Dirk






        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
        wrote:
        > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would be
        > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
        the
        > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
        am
        > I totally getting it wrong?
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
        > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
        to
        > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what you
        > want.
        > >
        > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build a
        > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality and
        > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
        run.
        > Or? Regards Stronk
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I can be wrong I must say
        > > Cheers, Alex...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • stronkus2003
        Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a column head as short
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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          Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
          height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
          column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
          possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.

          Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....

          Regards

          Stronk

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
          <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
          > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
          > necessary!
          >
          > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
          amount
          > of stages.
          > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
          > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
          >
          > Again I refer to:
          > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
          >
          > Check table 4
          >
          > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
          energy
          > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Dirk
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
          <stronkus2003@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
          be
          > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
          > the
          > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
          > am
          > > I totally getting it wrong?
          > >
          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
          > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
          > to
          > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
          you
          > > want.
          > > >
          > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
          a
          > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
          and
          > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
          > run.
          > > Or? Regards Stronk
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > I can be wrong I must say
          > > > Cheers, Alex...
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ---------------------------------
          > > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • homedistiller
          Stronk, I m afraid that just a few centimeters extra won t benefit THAT much. You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in the
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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            Stronk,

            I'm afraid that just a few centimeters extra won't benefit THAT much.

            You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in the
            ceiling/floor can easily provide for a double high column and even
            provide a much better acces to the reflux and distillate collection
            area!

            Dirk



            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
            wrote:
            > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
            > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build
            a
            > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
            > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
            >
            > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Stronk
          • stronkus2003
            I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head if the wife sees a column
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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              I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned
              is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head if
              the wife sees a column emerge from the cellar into the kitchen...;-)

              Regards Stronk

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
              <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
              > Stronk,
              >
              > I'm afraid that just a few centimeters extra won't benefit THAT
              much.
              >
              > You can also look at it like this: that relatively small hole in
              the
              > ceiling/floor can easily provide for a double high column and even
              > provide a much better acces to the reflux and distillate collection
              > area!
              >
              > Dirk
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
              <stronkus2003@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a
              limited
              > > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to
              build
              > a
              > > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
              > > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
              > >
              > > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
              > >
              > > Regards
              > >
              > > Stronk
            • homedistiller
              (LOL) Even better! To avoid that (indeed very crucial!) small hole in your head, (you could try to) explain your wife that you will extend the column even
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                (LOL) Even better!

                To avoid that (indeed very crucial!) small hole in your head, (you
                could try to) explain your wife that you will extend the column even
                higher!

                You could even let her choose the colour of the surrounding box, that
                is absolutely necessary to insulate the column!

                Regards,
                Dirk


                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                wrote:
                > I am sure You are right but another small parameter to be concerned
                > is the relatively small but crucial hole I will obtain in my head
                if
                > the wife sees a column emerge from the cellar into the kitchen...;-)
                >
                > Regards Stronk
              • w_upnorth
                Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                  25mm "T" adapted to
                  50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
                  hole, a slight angel to flow
                  product towards needle valves for reflux and take off. Would the
                  gained height in the column be worth it?


                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
                  > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
                  > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
                  > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
                  >
                  > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
                  >
                  > Regards
                  >
                  > Stronk
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
                  > <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
                  > > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
                  > > necessary!
                  > >
                  > > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
                  > amount
                  > > of stages.
                  > > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
                  > > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
                  > >
                  > > Again I refer to:
                  > > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
                  > >
                  > > Check table 4
                  > >
                  > > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
                  > energy
                  > > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
                  > >
                  > > Regards,
                  > > Dirk
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
                  > <stronkus2003@y...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
                  > be
                  > > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
                  > > the
                  > > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
                  > > am
                  > > > I totally getting it wrong?
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
                  > > to
                  > > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
                  > you
                  > > > want.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
                  > a
                  > > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
                  > and
                  > > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
                  > > run.
                  > > > Or? Regards Stronk
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I can be wrong I must say
                  > > > > Cheers, Alex...
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ---------------------------------
                  > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • abbababbaccc
                  Assuming you build a column without reflux head and have it properly insulated there s no reflux and the result is essentially the same as no column at all.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                    Assuming you build a column without reflux head and have it properly
                    insulated there's no reflux and the result is essentially the same as
                    no column at all. Uninsulated column let's vapors condense on the
                    column inner surface and provides reflux that way. However, it's not
                    as efficient as having all the reflux appear at the top of the
                    packing and flow down. Top down approach utilizes all the packing for
                    re-evaporation and recondensing cycle while sidecondensing utilizes
                    only part of the packing (not to mention channeling at the column
                    surface) and somewhat disturbs the equilibrium.

                    BTW, my LM rig has 1.4 meters of packing and it works well with low
                    reflux ratios.

                    Greetz, Riku

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would be
                    > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
                    the
                    > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
                    am
                    > I totally getting it wrong?
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                    > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
                    to
                    > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what you
                    > want.
                    > >
                    > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build a
                    > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality and
                    > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
                    run.
                    > Or? Regards Stronk
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I can be wrong I must say
                    > > Cheers, Alex...
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ---------------------------------
                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • BOKAKOB
                    in my opinion simply put - NO w_upnorth wrote: Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                      in my opinion simply put - NO

                      w_upnorth <w_upnorth@...> wrote:
                      Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                      25mm "T" adapted to
                      50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small relief
                      hole, a slight angel to flow
                      product towards needle valves for reflux and take off. Would the
                      gained height in the column be worth it?


                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003" <stronkus2003@y...>
                      wrote:
                      > Hi Dirk, what I am thinking is that since most of us have a limited
                      > height to use, the primary concern when building should be to build a
                      > column head as short as ever possible to get a column as high as
                      > possible and that total reflux control should be secondary.
                      >
                      > Hm time to go home and rebuild again.....
                      >
                      > Regards
                      >
                      > Stronk
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "homedistiller"
                      > <homedistiller@y...> wrote:
                      > > Stronkus, you absolutely have a right clue, but reflux is always
                      > > necessary!
                      > >
                      > > Heightening a column creates the possibility of increasing the
                      > amount
                      > > of stages.
                      > > More stages means less reflux necessary for the same purity.
                      > > Less reflux will result in much greater efficiency.
                      > >
                      > > Again I refer to:
                      > > http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
                      > >
                      > > Check table 4
                      > >
                      > > Less reflux demands more stages, but will reward you with less
                      > energy
                      > > consumption, smaller columns and less distilling time.
                      > >
                      > > Regards,
                      > > Dirk
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "stronkus2003"
                      > <stronkus2003@y...>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > Yes I realise that, I am just beeing curious that maybe it would
                      > be
                      > > > an easy way to go to build a column without a reflux head and use
                      > > the
                      > > > available space to build a taller column and get a good result. Or
                      > > am
                      > > > I totally getting it wrong?
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
                      > > > > You already have it. If you reduce the heat input in your boiler
                      > > to
                      > > > the point that you don't use cooling water, then you have what
                      > you
                      > > > want.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > stronkus2003 <stronkus2003@y...> wrote:Is it possible to build
                      > a
                      > > > fractionating still without any reflux and get the same quality
                      > and
                      > > > output? It would be a lot easier to build and probably easier to
                      > > run.
                      > > > Or? Regards Stronk
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I can be wrong I must say
                      > > > > Cheers, Alex...
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ---------------------------------
                      > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > > > > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                      I can be wrong I must say
                      Cheers, Alex...



                      ---------------------------------
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                      Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Mike Nixon
                      w_upnorth wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ? Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm T adapted to
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                        w_upnorth wrote:
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

                        Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a 25mm "T"
                        adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                        relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves for reflux
                        and take off. Would the
                        gained height in the column be worth it?
                        =========================
                        Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle so the
                        liquid runs the way you want it to.
                        The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just that, and
                        occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.

                        Mike N
                      • nanosleep
                        It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return. Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!! ... 25mm T ... for reflux ... so
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                          It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.

                          Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!!


                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                          > w_upnorth wrote:
                          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?
                          >
                          > Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                          25mm "T"
                          > adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                          > relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves
                          for reflux
                          > and take off. Would the
                          > gained height in the column be worth it?
                          > =========================
                          > Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle
                          so the
                          > liquid runs the way you want it to.
                          > The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just
                          that, and
                          > occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.
                          >
                          > Mike N
                        • Mike Nixon
                          nanosleep wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ? It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return. Why not just distill twice? Instant
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 1, 2003
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                            nanosleep wrote:
                            Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?

                            It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.

                            Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column height!!!!
                            =======================
                            Because it is a hobby, NS. Part of the enjoyment of a hobby, for me anyway,
                            is seeing if I can push the boundaries of our knowledge a bit further.
                            Gardeners spend years looking for the perfect rose. Sports people seek to
                            beat their own personal best records. It's fun! :-)

                            All the best,
                            Mike N
                            =======================

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                            > w_upnorth wrote:
                            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: L-o-n-g columns! Anyone ?
                            >
                            > Is it possible or reasonable to build a horizontal condenser? Say a
                            25mm "T"
                            > adapted to 50mm pipe with a condenser inside cap on the end with a small
                            > relief hole, a slight angel to flow product towards needle valves
                            for reflux
                            > and take off. Would the
                            > gained height in the column be worth it?
                            > =========================
                            > Perfectly feasible. Just ensure that you do have that slight angle
                            so the
                            > liquid runs the way you want it to.
                            > The coils used in the recent experiments with air cooling are just
                            that, and
                            > occupy far less space than an equivalent length of straight tubing.
                            >
                            > Mike N


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                          • homedistiller
                            Nanosleep, It depends what one likes. I really would enjoy an entire batch being finished in one hour! I really would enjoy a small-diameter-continuous-still
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 2, 2003
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                              Nanosleep,

                              It depends what one likes.

                              I really would enjoy an entire batch being finished in one hour!

                              I really would enjoy a small-diameter-continuous-still of, let's say,
                              5 or 6 meters high, nicely chugging along!

                              Wouldn't you ?

                              Regards,
                              Dirk





                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nanosleep" <nanosleep@y...> wrote:
                              > It seems like a lot of trouble for not much return.
                              >
                              > Why not just distill twice? Instant doubling of the column
                              height!!!!
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.