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RE: [Distillers] Re: Automatic separation head,body,tail+low speed with head

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  • Johan
    Thanks, it is just a picture that show how the principal works, in real life the feed back to the column will be 5-10 cm from the output of the still and I ll
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 29, 2003
      Thanks, it is just a picture that show how the principal works, in real
      life the feed back to the column will be 5-10 cm from the output of the
      still and I'll use a combination of larger and smaller pipes to avoid
      siphon effect and make the soldering a little easier. I made a sketch of
      that as well, but it wasn't suitable for showing the idea.

      Johan

      -----Original Message-----
      From: mwmccaw [mailto:mwmccaw@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 3:19 PM
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Automatic separation head,body,tail+low speed
      with head

      Johan,
      This is indeed ingenious, but I see one problem - unless I
      misinterpret the pictures.
      You mention the need to have a slow takeoff of heads, and put in a
      second needle valve to accomplish that - HOWEVER, the slow takeoff
      is in order to greatly increase the reflux ratio and get better
      separation of heads. In the photo, it looks as if the return from
      the second valve can only go to the pot, not to the top of the
      column, so it won't increase the reflux ratio and give you any
      advantage.
      You would have to raise the condenser and device above the top of
      the packing in the column in order to get all the returned material
      to act as reflux. This of course, would add 50-75 cm to the total
      device height.
      Did I miss something?
      Mike McCaw



      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Johan" <mugg@h...> wrote:
      > Time for an update about the separator
      >
      > http://bryggare.allhandel.se/upload/galleri/F_Plast/setuplarge.jpg
      >
      http://bryggare.allhandel.se/upload/galleri/F_Plast/cablefitting.jpg
      >
      > I've tested two times now, first time with mash alone. The boiler
      I have
      > can handle 15 litres mash, so I used smaller bottles than the
      setup on
      > the picture (5 dl head 1 litre spirits, and some tail)
      > I had problems with the bottles to begin with, cable fittings works
      > great! But the model I have can only handle 6 mm pipes maximum.
      Since
      > alcohol will drip from those into the bottle and air have to escape
      > trough the same pipe the alcohol got stuck into the pipe from time
      to
      > time.
      > After making an extra air escape hole onto the 6 mm pipe inside the
      > bottle the problem was gone, but I recommend using at least 8 mm
      pipe
      > for the bottles.
      >
      > First run I had head in the middle cut. Not sure why, could be
      that I
      > fiddled with the bottles a lot.
      > Second time I tested I added more head and tail to the mash and
      > separated 1 litre head, 2,5 litre body, and 2 litres tail. That
      came of
      > fine, mashlike in flavour but cut was pretty clean (I distilled
      cloudy
      > mash) no head or tail, but sweet mashlike taste.
      > However, I'm going to make a real run today, redistilling tail
      head and
      > some stripped alcohol.
      >
      > There might be a problem with this setup, liquid flow like it
      should,
      > but air containing head vapour may sneak into the middle cut line,
      a
      > liquid lock like the lowest in this picture:
      >
      http://bryggare.allhandel.se/upload/galleri/F_Plast/autoseparator.jpg
      > should solve that. Anyway the amount is probably very little. I
      know
      > tomorrow
      >
      > I thought of an improvement in this setup, it is a good idea to
      remove
      > head very slowly, so I thought of a way to achieve this with
      tubing and
      > an extra needle valve alone.
      >
      >
      http://bryggare.allhandel.se/upload/galleri/F_Plast/separatespeed.jpg
      >
      > alcohol come from the still through needle valve 9, this is set for
      > speed that suits middle and tail.
      > It runs down through 10 and enter needle valve 8 that is set on low
      > speed for head.
      > Since it is set on lower speed than 9 the pipe 10 starts to fill
      up,
      > also the bends 2 is filling up as air escape at 3 through line 4
      and out
      > in 5.
      > So what the needle valve 8 can't handle will go back to the still
      >
      > When bottle 6 is full it will start to fill chamber 1 and block air
      > escape 5. the pressure will increase in 1 and line 4 will push air
      back
      > to 3. This will increase pressure in line 2 so the liquid level in
      10
      > will increase and alcohol will go out through 7 instead.
      >
      > This is just a drawing how the principle works, the line from
      still and
      > back to still can be made closer to each other, about 5-10 cm so
      the
      > return will be close to the top. It's not that tricky to build.
      >
      > Johan
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Mike Nixon [mailto:mike@s...]
      > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 9:04 PM
      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Automatic separation head,body,tail
      >
      > Zarklan Zhaphedoix wrote:
      > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Automatic separation head,body,tail
      >
      > Wow!
      > That picture is unbelieveable. Are you going to draw us a flow
      diagram
      > too?
      >
      > Johan <mugg@h...> wrote:
      >
      http://bryggare.allhandel.se/upload/galleri/F_Plast/autoseparator2.jp
      g
      >
      > I finally made a separator for head and tail. Testing tomorrow.
      >
      > This in combination with vm or that untested reflux valve may be a
      nice
      > way to make the still more or less automatic.
      > ======================
      > Hi Johan,
      >
      > WOW indeed!
      > Even if it doesn't work as planned, it deserves a place in any
      > self-respecting modern art gallery!
      > Panting to hear about the results!
      > All the best,
      > Mike N
      >
      >
      >
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