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Re: Rice Mash

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  • waljaco
    Oops! The quantities given below are incorrect. the proportions used are 1/2 rice and 1/2 water by volume. So the recipe should be: Rice Mash 3 kg rice (10lb)
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 15, 2003
      Oops! The quantities given below are incorrect. the proportions used
      are 1/2 rice and 1/2 water by volume. So the recipe should be:

      Rice Mash
      3 kg rice (10lb)
      4 l water (1 US gal)
      9 g Chinese yeast (3 g/1 kg rice)

      Wal

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
      > > A Wei-Chuan recipe for Rice Wine/Beer
      > > http://tinyurl.com/qyx6
      > >
      > > Scaling it up for 20l (5US gals):
      > >
      > > Rice Mash
      > > 4.5 kg rice
      > > 20 l (5US gal) water
      > > 45g Chinese yeast (15 balls)
      > >
      > > Wal
      > >
      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:
      > > > Rice is the common grain used in S.E. Asia to make a fermented
      > beer
      > > > (aka 'wine') which can also be distilled to make a grain
      spirit.
      > > The
      > > > technique used uses a yeast and mould mix. The mould produces
      > > enzymes
      > > > that convert the starch into sugars which are then utilized by
      > the
      > > > yeasts. The technique produces a very high alcohol content and
      > can
      > > > reach 20% which makes it useful for home distillers. In China
      > other
      > > > grains are also used and there is no reason why the technique
      > could
      > > > not be applied to corn (maize).
      > > >
      > > > Here is an illustrated description of making 'Sticky Rice Wine':
      > > > http://www.trax2.com/stickyrice/stickyrice-wine.html
      > > >
      > > > For details of where to obtain the Chinese yeast-mould used for
      > the
      > > > process:
      > > > http://forum.filipinorecipe.com/_disc01/000000ff.htm
      > > >
      > > > See also msg 15210, 15211.
      > > >
      > > > I have seen 'koji' mould sold as a Korean brand 'Malt' in a
      > Chinese
      > > > grocery store.
    • waljaco
      Polished rice is around 80% starch while glutinous rice is about 88% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 23, 2010
        Polished rice is around 80% starch while glutinous rice is about 88% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch granules swell irreversibly.
        The information about cooking rice is confusing, and I have collected information with the view to quantify the process.

        The traditional Asian way is to soak the rice and then to steam it, and this is regarded as the way to achieve the best quality.

        Most rice is perfectly cooked when the final moisture content is between 58% and 64%.
        1000 grams (1kg) rice with a starting moisture content of 12% needs 1145 grams of water to be fully cooked at 64% moisture content.

        Most white rice is cooked in 15-20 minutes. How much water to add depends on vapor loss during the cooking process. Most call for 1 cup of rice and 11/2- 2 cups of water. A good rice cooker may call for 1 cup of rice and one cup of water.

        I suggest the following recipe for a rice mash (figures rounded off).

        1.250kg dry white rice (150g moisture, 1.100kg dry matter)
        Cooking 1.250kg rice in 2 litres of water using the absorption method (see instruction on packet) will yield around 3kg cooked rice with about 2 litres of water content.
        You need only to add an additional 2 litres of water to give a rice mash using 1.25kg/4l of water (this is equivalent to a sugar wash of 1kg/4l which gives about a 15%abv wash). This can be scaled up to 6.25kg/20 litre of water.

        wal
      • made_it_myself
        Sorry to sound a little dim, but does this mean the starch is converted to sugars during the extra cooking cycle or does the yeast do the job?
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 23, 2010
          Sorry to sound a little dim, but does this mean the starch is converted to sugars during the extra cooking cycle or does the yeast do the job?

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
          >
          > Polished rice is around 80% starch while glutinous rice is about 88% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch granules swell irreversibly.
          > The information about cooking rice is confusing, and I have collected information with the view to quantify the process.
          >
          > The traditional Asian way is to soak the rice and then to steam it, and this is regarded as the way to achieve the best quality.
          >
          > Most rice is perfectly cooked when the final moisture content is between 58% and 64%.
          > 1000 grams (1kg) rice with a starting moisture content of 12% needs 1145 grams of water to be fully cooked at 64% moisture content.
          >
          > Most white rice is cooked in 15-20 minutes. How much water to add depends on vapor loss during the cooking process. Most call for 1 cup of rice and 11/2- 2 cups of water. A good rice cooker may call for 1 cup of rice and one cup of water.
          >
          > I suggest the following recipe for a rice mash (figures rounded off).
          >
          > 1.250kg dry white rice (150g moisture, 1.100kg dry matter)
          > Cooking 1.250kg rice in 2 litres of water using the absorption method (see instruction on packet) will yield around 3kg cooked rice with about 2 litres of water content.
          > You need only to add an additional 2 litres of water to give a rice mash using 1.25kg/4l of water (this is equivalent to a sugar wash of 1kg/4l which gives about a 15%abv wash). This can be scaled up to 6.25kg/20 litre of water.
          >
          > wal
          >
        • bruce cook
          After preparation of the mash, what method is used to convert the starch to sugar? Thanks, Bruce To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com From: waljaco@hotmail.com Date:
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 23, 2010
            After preparation of the mash, what method is used to convert the starch to sugar?

            Thanks,
            Bruce


            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            From: waljaco@...
            Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:14:19 +0000
            Subject: [Distillers] Rice Mash

             
            Polished rice is around 80% starch while glutinous rice is about 88% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch granules swell irreversibly.
            The information about cooking rice is confusing, and I have collected information with the view to quantify the process.

            The traditional Asian way is to soak the rice and then to steam it, and this is regarded as the way to achieve the best quality.

            Most rice is perfectly cooked when the final moisture content is between 58% and 64%.
            1000 grams (1kg) rice with a starting moisture content of 12% needs 1145 grams of water to be fully cooked at 64% moisture content.

            Most white rice is cooked in 15-20 minutes. How much water to add depends on vapor loss during the cooking process. Most call for 1 cup of rice and 11/2- 2 cups of water. A good rice cooker may call for 1 cup of rice and one cup of water.

            I suggest the following recipe for a rice mash (figures rounded off).

            1.250kg dry white rice (150g moisture, 1.100kg dry matter)
            Cooking 1.250kg rice in 2 litres of water using the absorption method (see instruction on packet) will yield around 3kg cooked rice with about 2 litres of water content.
            You need only to add an additional 2 litres of water to give a rice mash using 1.25kg/4l of water (this is equivalent to a sugar wash of 1kg/4l which gives about a 15%abv wash). This can be scaled up to 6.25kg/20 litre of water.

            wal


          • jeweler53
            How would you suggest converting the starch to sugar? Malted barley? Would you add additional nutrients? Just curious
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 23, 2010
              How would you suggest converting the starch to sugar? Malted barley?
              Would you add additional nutrients?

              Just curious

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
              >
              > Polished rice is around 80% starch while glutinous rice is about 88% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch granules swell irreversibly.
              > The information about cooking rice is confusing, and I have collected information with the view to quantify the process.
              >
              > The traditional Asian way is to soak the rice and then to steam it, and this is regarded as the way to achieve the best quality.
              >
              > Most rice is perfectly cooked when the final moisture content is between 58% and 64%.
              > 1000 grams (1kg) rice with a starting moisture content of 12% needs 1145 grams of water to be fully cooked at 64% moisture content.
              >
              > Most white rice is cooked in 15-20 minutes. How much water to add depends on vapor loss during the cooking process. Most call for 1 cup of rice and 11/2- 2 cups of water. A good rice cooker may call for 1 cup of rice and one cup of water.
              >
              > I suggest the following recipe for a rice mash (figures rounded off).
              >
              > 1.250kg dry white rice (150g moisture, 1.100kg dry matter)
              > Cooking 1.250kg rice in 2 litres of water using the absorption method (see instruction on packet) will yield around 3kg cooked rice with about 2 litres of water content.
              > You need only to add an additional 2 litres of water to give a rice mash using 1.25kg/4l of water (this is equivalent to a sugar wash of 1kg/4l which gives about a 15%abv wash). This can be scaled up to 6.25kg/20 litre of water.
              >
              > wal
              >
            • sigrune@aol.com
              Un-sprouted rice has no appreciable enzymes to convert sugar to starch. In the traditional method Wal lists usually there is the addition of Koji, a mold that
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 23, 2010
                Un-sprouted rice has no appreciable enzymes to convert sugar to starch.

                In the traditional method Wal lists usually there is the addition of Koji, a mold that breaks the starch into sugar.
                Of course you can always have Asian girls chew the rice to start the enzyme process... 


                ----Original Message-----
                From: made_it_myself <doctorlawrencebrown@...>
                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 10:31 am
                Subject: [Distillers] Re: Rice Mash

                 
                >Sorry to sound a little dim, but does this mean the starch is converted to sugars during the extra
                >
                cooking cycle or does the yeast do the job?
              • waljaco
                Polished rice is around 80% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 23, 2010
                  Polished rice is around 80% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch granules swell irreversibly.
                  The information about cooking rice is confusing, and I have collected information with the view to quantify the process.

                  The traditional Asian way is to soak the rice and then to steam it, and this is regarded as the way to achieve the best quality.

                  Most rice is perfectly cooked when the final moisture content is between 58% and 64%.
                  1000 grams (1kg) rice with a starting moisture content of 12% needs 1145 grams of water to be fully cooked at 64% moisture content.

                  Most white rice is cooked in 15-20 minutes. How much water to add depends on vapor loss during the cooking process. Most call for 1 cup of rice and 11/2- 2 cups of water. A good rice cooker may call for 1 cup of rice and one cup of water.

                  I suggest the following recipe for a rice mash (figures rounded off).

                  1.250kg dry white rice (150g moisture, 1.100kg dry matter)
                  Cooking 1.250kg rice in 2 litres of water using the absorption method (see instruction on packet) will yield around 3kg cooked rice with about 2 litres of water content.
                  You need only to add an additional 2 litres of water to give a rice mash using 1.25kg/4l of water (this is equivalent to a sugar wash of 1kg/4l which gives about a 15%abv wash). This can be scaled up to 6.25kg/20 litre of water.

                  wal
                • waljaco
                  You can use malted barley (plus glucoamylase for a good conversion), enzymes or a SE Asian starter (Chinese rice yeast balls).
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 23, 2010
                    You can use malted barley (plus glucoamylase for a good conversion), enzymes or a SE Asian starter (Chinese rice yeast balls).

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jeweler53" <Dick_Box@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > How would you suggest converting the starch to sugar? Malted barley?
                    > Would you add additional nutrients?
                    >
                    > Just curious
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Polished rice is around 80% starch while glutinous rice is about 88% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch granules swell irreversibly.
                    > > The information about cooking rice is confusing, and I have collected information with the view to quantify the process.
                    > >
                    > > The traditional Asian way is to soak the rice and then to steam it, and this is regarded as the way to achieve the best quality.
                    > >
                    > > Most rice is perfectly cooked when the final moisture content is between 58% and 64%.
                    > > 1000 grams (1kg) rice with a starting moisture content of 12% needs 1145 grams of water to be fully cooked at 64% moisture content.
                    > >
                    > > Most white rice is cooked in 15-20 minutes. How much water to add depends on vapor loss during the cooking process. Most call for 1 cup of rice and 11/2- 2 cups of water. A good rice cooker may call for 1 cup of rice and one cup of water.
                    > >
                    > > I suggest the following recipe for a rice mash (figures rounded off).
                    > >
                    > > 1.250kg dry white rice (150g moisture, 1.100kg dry matter)
                    > > Cooking 1.250kg rice in 2 litres of water using the absorption method (see instruction on packet) will yield around 3kg cooked rice with about 2 litres of water content.
                    > > You need only to add an additional 2 litres of water to give a rice mash using 1.25kg/4l of water (this is equivalent to a sugar wash of 1kg/4l which gives about a 15%abv wash). This can be scaled up to 6.25kg/20 litre of water.
                    > >
                    > > wal
                    > >
                    >
                  • waljaco
                    The information is about cooking rice. There is plenty of previous information on converting starch to glucose. wal
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 23, 2010
                      The information is about cooking rice. There is plenty of previous information on converting starch to glucose.
                      wal

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "made_it_myself" <doctorlawrencebrown@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Sorry to sound a little dim, but does this mean the starch is converted to sugars during the extra cooking cycle or does the yeast do the job?
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Polished rice is around 80% starch while glutinous rice is about 88% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch granules swell irreversibly.
                      > > The information about cooking rice is confusing, and I have collected information with the view to quantify the process.
                      > >
                      > > The traditional Asian way is to soak the rice and then to steam it, and this is regarded as the way to achieve the best quality.
                      > >
                      > > Most rice is perfectly cooked when the final moisture content is between 58% and 64%.
                      > > 1000 grams (1kg) rice with a starting moisture content of 12% needs 1145 grams of water to be fully cooked at 64% moisture content.
                      > >
                      > > Most white rice is cooked in 15-20 minutes. How much water to add depends on vapor loss during the cooking process. Most call for 1 cup of rice and 11/2- 2 cups of water. A good rice cooker may call for 1 cup of rice and one cup of water.
                      > >
                      > > I suggest the following recipe for a rice mash (figures rounded off).
                      > >
                      > > 1.250kg dry white rice (150g moisture, 1.100kg dry matter)
                      > > Cooking 1.250kg rice in 2 litres of water using the absorption method (see instruction on packet) will yield around 3kg cooked rice with about 2 litres of water content.
                      > > You need only to add an additional 2 litres of water to give a rice mash using 1.25kg/4l of water (this is equivalent to a sugar wash of 1kg/4l which gives about a 15%abv wash). This can be scaled up to 6.25kg/20 litre of water.
                      > >
                      > > wal
                      > >
                      >
                    • jamesonbeam1
                      There is a very good step by step for making traditional homemade sake from the koji mold along with sources at:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 24, 2010

                        There is a very good step by step for making traditional homemade sake from the koji mold along with sources at: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Foodpia/1751/sake.html

                        JB.


                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Un-sprouted rice has no appreciable enzymes to convert sugar to starch.
                        >
                        > In the traditional method Wal lists usually there is the addition of Koji, a mold that breaks the starch into sugar.
                        > Of course you can always have Asian girls chew the rice to start the enzyme process...
                        >
                        >
                        > ----Original Message-----
                        > From: made_it_myself doctorlawrencebrown@...
                        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 10:31 am
                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Rice Mash
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >Sorry to sound a little dim, but does this mean the starch is converted to sugars during the extra
                        > >cooking cycle or does the yeast do the job?
                        >

                      • ozilikkerman
                        Can we now have a recipe for a good curry to go with the rice.
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 24, 2010
                          Can we now have a recipe for a good curry to go with the rice.

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Polished rice is around 80% starch while glutinous rice is about 88% starch. The moisture content is 12%. It needs to be gelatinized for fermentation, a process where the rice absorbs water and starch granules swell irreversibly.
                          > The information about cooking rice is confusing, and I have collected information with the view to quantify the process.
                          >
                          > The traditional Asian way is to soak the rice and then to steam it, and this is regarded as the way to achieve the best quality.
                          >
                          > Most rice is perfectly cooked when the final moisture content is between 58% and 64%.
                          > 1000 grams (1kg) rice with a starting moisture content of 12% needs 1145 grams of water to be fully cooked at 64% moisture content.
                          >
                          > Most white rice is cooked in 15-20 minutes. How much water to add depends on vapor loss during the cooking process. Most call for 1 cup of rice and 11/2- 2 cups of water. A good rice cooker may call for 1 cup of rice and one cup of water.
                          >
                          > I suggest the following recipe for a rice mash (figures rounded off).
                          >
                          > 1.250kg dry white rice (150g moisture, 1.100kg dry matter)
                          > Cooking 1.250kg rice in 2 litres of water using the absorption method (see instruction on packet) will yield around 3kg cooked rice with about 2 litres of water content.
                          > You need only to add an additional 2 litres of water to give a rice mash using 1.25kg/4l of water (this is equivalent to a sugar wash of 1kg/4l which gives about a 15%abv wash). This can be scaled up to 6.25kg/20 litre of water.
                          >
                          > wal
                          >
                        • waljaco
                          Koji is a pure strain of Aspergillus oryzae. Yeast needs to be added for fermentation But once the Japanese did use saliva enzymes! This practice is restricted
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 24, 2010
                            Koji is a pure strain of Aspergillus oryzae. Yeast needs to be added for fermentation But once the Japanese did use saliva enzymes! This practice is restricted to the Amazon Basin now. Most Asian countries use a mixed starter of wild fungi, bacteria and yeasts which gives more flavour complexity. The Koreans still use to some extent malted barley also.
                            Most grains contain about 60% starch, so rice has a certain advantage. For sake, the Japanese use a highly polished rice that has 85% starch.
                            http;//groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/17499

                            wal
                            wal

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@... wrote:
                            >
                            > Un-sprouted rice has no appreciable enzymes to convert sugar to starch.
                            >
                            > In the traditional method Wal lists usually there is the addition of Koji, a mold that breaks the starch into sugar.
                            > Of course you can always have Asian girls chew the rice to start the enzyme process...
                            >
                            >
                            > ----Original Message-----
                            > From: made_it_myself <doctorlawrencebrown@...>
                            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 10:31 am
                            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Rice Mash
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >Sorry to sound a little dim, but does this mean the starch is converted to sugars during the extra
                            > >cooking cycle or does the yeast do the job?
                            >
                          • waljaco
                            Message 13 of 17 , Sep 24, 2010
                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Koji is a pure strain of Aspergillus oryzae. Yeast needs to be added for fermentation But once the Japanese did use saliva enzymes! This practice is restricted to the Amazon Basin now. Most Asian countries use a mixed starter of wild fungi, bacteria and yeasts which gives more flavour complexity. The Koreans still use to some extent malted barley also.
                              > Most grains contain about 60% starch, so rice has a certain advantage. For sake, the Japanese use a highly polished rice that has 85% starch.
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/17499
                              >
                              > wal
                              > wal
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Un-sprouted rice has no appreciable enzymes to convert sugar to starch.
                              > >
                              > > In the traditional method Wal lists usually there is the addition of Koji, a mold that breaks the starch into sugar.
                              > > Of course you can always have Asian girls chew the rice to start the enzyme process...
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ----Original Message-----
                              > > From: made_it_myself <doctorlawrencebrown@>
                              > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 10:31 am
                              > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Rice Mash
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >Sorry to sound a little dim, but does this mean the starch is converted to sugars during the extra
                              > > >cooking cycle or does the yeast do the job?
                              > >
                              >
                            • bruce cook
                              This implies that the only way to convert rice starch to sugar for fermenting is the use of Koji . Then, we will end up with Sake . Are there any other
                              Message 14 of 17 , Sep 25, 2010
                                This implies that the only way to convert rice starch to sugar for fermenting is the use of "Koji".  Then, we will end up with "Sake".  Are there any other methods, i.e. the use of enzymes, malting the rice, malted barley, etc. which would convert the rice starch to sugar?  I am interested in using rice to make alcholol fuel, not "Sake".

                                Thanks,
                                Bruce


                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                From: waljaco@...
                                Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 06:08:59 +0000
                                Subject: [Distillers] Re: Rice Mash

                                 


                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Koji is a pure strain of Aspergillus oryzae. Yeast needs to be added for fermentation But once the Japanese did use saliva enzymes! This practice is restricted to the Amazon Basin now. Most Asian countries use a mixed starter of wild fungi, bacteria and yeasts which gives more flavour complexity. The Koreans still use to some extent malted barley also.
                                > Most grains contain about 60% starch, so rice has a certain advantage. For sake, the Japanese use a highly polished rice that has 85% starch.
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/17499
                                >
                                > wal
                                > wal
                                >
                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, sigrune@ wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Un-sprouted rice has no appreciable enzymes to convert sugar to starch.
                                > >
                                > > In the traditional method Wal lists usually there is the addition of Koji, a mold that breaks the starch into sugar.
                                > > Of course you can always have Asian girls chew the rice to start the enzyme process...
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----Original Message-----
                                > > From: made_it_myself <doctorlawrencebrown@>
                                > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Thu, Sep 23, 2010 10:31 am
                                > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Rice Mash
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > >Sorry to sound a little dim, but does this mean the starch is converted to sugars during the extra
                                > > >cooking cycle or does the yeast do the job?
                                > >
                                >


                              • jamesonbeam1
                                Hi Bruce, You may use enzymes, malt or Koji to convert starches to sugars in rice. However, your in the wrong group here. We distill for taste and drinking,
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 2, 2010

                                  Hi Bruce,

                                  You may use enzymes, malt or Koji to convert starches to sugars in rice.  However, your in the wrong group here.  We distill for taste and drinking, not making fuel.  You should join our friends at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/alcoholfuel/ to discuss the most cost effective way of converting rice to make E-85.

                                  JB.


                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, bruce cook <bcook0407@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > This implies that the only way to convert rice starch to sugar for fermenting is the use of "Koji". Then, we will end up with "Sake". Are there any other methods, i.e. the use of enzymes, malting the rice, malted barley, etc. which would convert the rice starch to sugar? I am interested in using rice to make alcholol fuel, not "Sake".
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Bruce

                                • bruce cook
                                  JB, Thanks for the reply. As a matter of fact, I am a member of the Alcohol Fuel group. However, this thread was started here and I was just following the
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 2, 2010
                                    JB,

                                    Thanks for the reply.  As a matter of fact, I am a member of the "Alcohol Fuel" group.  However, this thread was started here and I was just following the thread.  I'll see if there is any information in the other group about what enzymes to use.

                                    Thanks again,
                                    Bruce


                                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: jamesonbeam1@...
                                    Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:50:37 +0000
                                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: Rice Mash

                                     

                                    Hi Bruce,
                                    You may use enzymes, malt or Koji to convert starches to sugars in rice.  However, your in the wrong group here.  We distill for taste and drinking, not making fuel.  You should join our friends at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/alcoholfuel/ to discuss the most cost effective way of converting rice to make E-85.
                                    JB.

                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, bruce cook <bcook0407@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > This implies that the only way to convert rice starch to sugar for fermenting is the use of "Koji". Then, we will end up with "Sake". Are there any other methods, i.e. the use of enzymes, malting the rice, malted barley, etc. which would convert the rice starch to sugar? I am interested in using rice to make alcholol fuel, not "Sake".
                                    >
                                    > Thanks,
                                    > Bruce


                                  • jamesonbeam1
                                    YVW Bruce, Not knowing much about distilling E-85 i would say using enzymes like the BA and GA-100 from Mile High Distllers is way more cost efficient then
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 2, 2010

                                      YVW Bruce,

                                      Not knowing much about distilling E-85 i would say using enzymes like the BA and GA-100 from Mile High Distllers is way more cost efficient then other means.  1 pound of each can break down 1000 lbs. of grains. 

                                      JB.  http://www.milehidistilling.com/Alcohol_fuel_still_Parts_Ethanol_stills_Supplies_s/1.htm

                                      Alpha-Amylase Enzyme - 1 Pound
                                      Our Price: $14.99

                                      BA-100 is a bacterial alpha-amylse enzyme. It is a food-grade enzyme product produced by fermentation of a non-GMO strain of Bacillus. This enzyme is Kosher-certified, not-synthetic and can be used in the production of certified-organic foods. BA-100, endo-amylase, randomly hydrolyzes 1.4-alpha-glucosidic bonds in starch. The prolonged action of BA-100 reduces the viscosity of gelatinized starch and produces large amounts of low molecular weight oligosaccharides. This process will turn the starch into long chain sugars but unfortunately yeast cannot utilize this sugar yet.

                                      BA-100 and GA-100 enzymes are the exact same enzymes used by both the beverage alcohol and fuel alcohol industries. These are very concentrated and just 1/10 pound of each of these enzymes will break down 100 pounds of grain or starch into fermentable glucose.

                                      Please store these enzymes refrigerated in zip lock bags.
                                      Gluco-Amylase Enzyme - 1 Pound
                                      Gluco-Amylase Enzyme - 1 Pound
                                      Our Price: $14.99

                                      GA-100 is a Glucoamylase enzyme produced by controlled fermentation of a non-GMO strain of Rhizopus; (much stronger action than glucoamylase produced by Aspergillus Niger) this enzyme is food-grade, Kosher-certified, Non-synthetic and can be used to produce certified-organic beverages. GA-100, an exo-alpha-amylase, hydrolyses 1.4 alpha-glucosidic bonds of liquefied starch. The prolonged action of GA-100 produces large amounts of glucose. This means that this process converts all the long chain sugars produced by BA-100 into short chain sugars that the yeast will love.

                                      BA-100 and GA-100 enzymes are the exact same enzymes used by both the beverage alcohol and fuel alcohol industries. These are very concentrated and just 1/10 pound of each of these enzymes will break down 100 pounds of grain or starch into fermentable glucose.

                                      Please store these enzymes refrigerated in zip lock bags.

                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, bruce cook <bcook0407@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > JB,
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for the reply. As a matter of fact, I am a member of the "Alcohol Fuel" group. However, this thread was started here and I was just following the thread. I'll see if there is any information in the other group about what enzymes to use.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks again,
                                      > Bruce
                                      >
                                      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      > From: jamesonbeam1@...
                                      > Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 14:50:37 +0000
                                      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Rice Mash
                                      >
                                      > Hi Bruce,
                                      > You may use enzymes, malt or Koji to convert starches to sugars in rice. However, your in the wrong group here. We distill for taste and drinking, not making fuel. You should join our friends at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/alcoholfuel/ to discuss the most cost effective way of converting rice to make E-85.
                                      > JB.
                                      >
                                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, bruce cook bcook0407@ wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > This implies that the only way to convert rice starch to sugar for fermenting is the use of "Koji". Then, we will end up with "Sake". Are there any other methods, i.e. the use of enzymes, malting the rice, malted barley, etc. which would convert the rice starch to sugar? I am interested in using rice to make alcholol fuel, not "Sake".
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks,
                                      > > Bruce
                                      >

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