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reflux stills, german literature

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  • Peter Damen
    Thanks for the refluxdesign calculations. Using the different parameters of my own still-equipment, I find out that the ignored cooling water & heat loss must
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 28, 2000
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      Thanks for the refluxdesign calculations.
      Using the different parameters of my own still-equipment, I find out that the ignored cooling water & heat loss must be quite much. I had to reduce my "gas-power-input" from 9000 Watt to 2200 Watt to match the "time to heat up" match with my still-experiences.   
       
      I have a lot of good experience with a "Danfoss-AVTA-cooling-valve" to adjust the amount of coolingwater on the top of my column constantly. It's quite simple and aquarate without using electricity or any electronic devices. Using the adjustment knob, the valve can be set so that the desired tempearture is controlled with a thermometer nearby the capilarry tube. Turning the knob in an anticlockwise direction raises the temperature of de collumntop, while turning it in a clockwise direction the temperatur lowers.
       
      On this way I can get constantly 92%-vol alcohol while the collumn-temperatur gets contstant 79/80 degrees Celcius. The refulx ratio is regulated by the cooling flow inside the column. I formed the cooling-tube or "deflegmator" in a "diabolo" to get more cooling surface. I didn't find out the reflux ratio at different times by measuring the maximum distilation rate without cooling.
       
      Can somebody give me some tips to measure the amount of cooling water and the the amount of alcohol very quickly, without disturbing the destilling-proces ? Then its easier to calibrate the different parameters used in the calculations.
       
      Regards,
       
      Peter from Holland
       
       
      By the way:
      A lot of knowledge of profesional and home-still-equipment is develloped and fabricated in germany, in the neaberhood of Stuttgart. Last summer I visited a few still-equipment-factorys. Plenty of literature is written in germany.
      A very good book with 400 pages, 111 figures and 65 tabels, is: "Technologie der Obstbrennerei", Von Hans Joachim Pieper, Verlag Eugen Ulmer, Stuttgart, ISBN 3-8001-5814-0.
       
         
    • Peter Damen
      Van: Peter Damen Aan: distillers@egrourps.com Onderwerp: reflux stills, german literature Thanks for the
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 29, 2000
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        Van: Peter Damen <dambasti@...>
        Aan: distillers@... <distillers@egroups.com>
        Onderwerp: reflux stills, german literature

        Thanks for the refluxdesign calculations.
        Using the different parameters of my own still-equipment, I find out that the ignored cooling water & heat loss must be quite much. I had to reduce my "gas-power-input" from 9000 Watt to 2200 Watt to match the "time to heat up" match with my still-experiences.   
         
        I have a lot of good experience with a "Danfoss-AVTA-cooling-valve" to adjust the amount of coolingwater on the top of my column constantly. It's quite simple and aquarate without using electricity or any electronic devices. Using the adjustment knob, the valve can be set so that the desired tempearture is controlled with a thermometer nearby the capilarry tube. Turning the knob in an anticlockwise direction raises the temperature of de collumntop, while turning it in a clockwise direction the temperatur lowers.
         
        On this way I can get constantly 92%-vol alcohol while the collumn-temperatur gets contstant 79/80 degrees Celcius. The refulx ratio is regulated by the cooling flow inside the column. I formed the cooling-tube or "deflegmator" in a "diabolo" to get more cooling surface. I didn't find out the reflux ratio at different times by measuring the maximum distilation rate without cooling.
         
        Can somebody give me some tips to measure the amount of cooling water and the the amount of alcohol very quickly, without disturbing the destilling-proces ? Then its easier to calibrate the different parameters used in the calculations.
         
        Regards,
         
        Peter from Holland
         
         
        By the way:
        A lot of knowledge of profesional and home-still-equipment is develloped and fabricated in germany, in the neaberhood of Stuttgart. Last summer I visited a few still-equipment-factorys. Plenty of literature is written in germany.
        A very good book with 400 pages, 111 figures and 65 tabels, is: "Technologie der Obstbrennerei", Von Hans Joachim Pieper, Verlag Eugen Ulmer, Stuttgart, ISBN 3-8001-5814-0.
         
           
      • Tony & Elle Ackland
        Peter, ... Glad to hear that http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/reflux_calc.htm has been of use to you. That seems to be quite a large amount of heat
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 1, 2001
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          Peter,

          >Thanks for the refluxdesign calculations.
          >Using the different parameters of my own still-equipment, I find out
          >that the ignored cooling water & heat loss must be quite much. I had to
          >reduce my "gas-power-input" from 9000 Watt to 2200 Watt to match the
          >"time to heat up" match with my still-experiences.

          Glad to hear that http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/reflux_calc.htm
          has been of use to you. That seems to be quite a large amount of heat loss
          you are having. Have you been able to insulate your pot & column in any
          way ? Some of the "heat losses" ignored by the calculation are also those
          required to heat up all the pot, column, packing, etc (all the metal &
          ceramic bits) too - the bulkier the still the longer it will take to heat
          up, but it should be fine once at temperature (eg more like the 9000W
          performance). As you would have seen from the calculations, this amount of
          loss will affect your design & operation quite a bit; a 9000 W heat input
          will require a column of approx 50-55 mm diameter, whereas 2200 W is best
          suited with approx 25-30 mm diameter.

          >Can somebody give me some tips to measure the amount of cooling water
          >and the the amount of alcohol very quickly, without disturbing the
          >destilling-proces ? Then its easier to calibrate the different
          >parameters used in the calculations.

          I'm a bit of a "bucket chemist" when it comes to this. I just use a small
          measuring cylinder, marked off in 10 mL increments, and time how long it
          takes to fill say 100 mL to get the flowrates.

          You only have to do this rigourously once to understand your stills
          operation. Treat this one run as an experiment, and spend the time on it.
          Measure & write down the temperatures every 5 or 10 minutes, and graph
          them as you go. Collect the distillate into 200 mL or so containers, and
          note how long it took to fill them. Once they're each cool, measure their
          %. Measure the cooling water flowrate & temperature, and work out how much
          it needs to be increased near the end of the run to keep it cool.

          This will allow you to get an accurate idea of the heat input to the still,
          so that you can then optimise its diameter (you may need to widen it if too
          small, or decrease it (by stuffing it with some stainless steel rods or
          suchlike) if too large) if too far from that desired.

          By understanding the flowrate of distillate you are collecting, you can
          determine the reflux ratio that you are getting from your cooling coils
          etc. Once you know this, you can work out the HETP for your packing, and
          thus the number of "theoretical plates" your still has. This will
          determine the maximum purity that you can achieve - if close to it, you're
          doing well, if miles away from it then something aint working right. If
          the maximum is less than what you want, then you'll need to make the column
          taller or change the packing (or both !).

          The cooling water temperature will tell you if you're sub-cooling the
          reflux distillate. If this is happening, then you're wasting the top
          portion of your column as all its doing is trying to heat it back up to
          equilibrium tempeature again, before it can start stripping the vapour of
          its water content. If the cooling water flowrate is really large (eg more
          than about 2/3L per minute) then your cooling isn't as efficient as it
          could be - see if it needs more surface area to work over.

          Once you understand how your temperatures & distillate flowrate changes at
          the end of a run, you can predict more accurately when you're starting to
          receive the tails. Compare the total distillate collected, and its purity,
          against what is theoretically possible. There's no point is trying to
          wring too much out of the still, or else you'll just be into collecting
          those tails and ruining your whole batch. (This is where the table of
          "amount collected over time" might be usefull to you - as a guide to when
          to stop)

          As always, I've put heaps of disclaimers around the calculations on
          http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/reflux_calc.htm ; they're not the
          complete picture, but should be usefull as a guide along with
          http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/refluxdesign.htm in terms of
          understanding and getting the best from your still.

          Tony

          http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
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