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Moving on From Counter-Flow Cooling....

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  • Austin Smith
    Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper vessel. A complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper and the hot alcoholic vapour
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 1, 2003
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      Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper vessel. A complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper and the hot alcoholic vapour which greatly enhances the flavour. Cheaper drinking alcohol is made in stainless steel stills - but the flavour is never the same. The smaller the still; the higher the ratio of surface area to vapour; the more contact between copper and vapour takes place and the better the end result. In Europe, stills under 500 litres in size are deemed "artisanal" (as opposed to "industrial,") and the brandies made in them are sold as "artisanal" and command a higher price. Prenzel Distilling's two stills are 250 litres and 80 litres respectively.



      Comments....


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • rodmacd2000
      Oh yeh? Sez who? Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest C2H5OH we possibly can with absolutely no other impurity except a very small
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 1, 2003
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        Oh yeh? Sez who?

        Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest C2H5OH
        we possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very
        small amount of H2O.

        So there.

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Austin Smith" <asmith1@b...>
        wrote:
        > Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper vessel. A
        complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper and the
        hot alcoholic vapour which greatly enhances the flavour. Cheaper
        drinking alcohol is made in stainless steel stills - but the flavour
        is never the same. The smaller the still; the higher the ratio of
        surface area to vapour; the more contact between copper and vapour
        takes place and the better the end result. In Europe, stills under
        500 litres in size are deemed "artisanal" (as opposed
        to "industrial,") and the brandies made in them are sold
        as "artisanal" and command a higher price. Prenzel Distilling's two
        stills are 250 litres and 80 litres respectively.
        >
        >
        >
        > Comments....
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Austin Smith
        That was a quote from the Prenzel (New Zealand) Distillery website. The final word from the land of the Kiwi, so to speak. ;-p [Non-text portions of this
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2003
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          That was a quote from the Prenzel (New Zealand) Distillery website. The final word from the land of the Kiwi, so to speak. ;-p

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • steve_j_alexander
          Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest, purest ethanol content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even after paying the taxes
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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            Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest, purest
            ethanol content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even
            after paying the taxes your time would be better spent working a few
            hours at MacDonalds and using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
            ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your
            goal uneconomic.

            > Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest
            C2H5OH
            > we possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very
            > small amount of H2O.

            Boring.



            I disagree with Austin too in one regard. Copper *may* play a role
            in some background flavors, but it is not the alcohol and copper that
            are interacting. It's unlikely that excellent beverage brandy or
            whisky cannot be distilled in stainless.


            >> Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper vessel.
            A
            >> complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper and
            the
            >> hot alcoholic vapour

            That's myth and mystique. Where is the analysis to back that
            extravegant claim ?
          • peter_vcb
            i wouldnt recommend drinking industrial alcohol, especially 99.9% which may have benzene in it. i have never smelt industiral stuff which was nice, and yes it
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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              i wouldnt recommend drinking industrial alcohol, especially 99.9%
              which may have benzene in it. i have never smelt industiral stuff
              which was nice, and yes it was pure ethanol with taxes paid. i like
              my pure alcohol since i get no hangovers from it too, when i was in
              university some guys drank absolute ethanol and had splitting
              headaches. very pure alcohol may seem "boring" but most mix it or add
              essences so a pure product is what they want.

              the copper does strip out sulphides and probably other nasties from
              your alcohol, this is not a myth there are details on
              www.homedistiller.org many on these groups have found this to be
              fact, myself included. i have read that some distilleries made
              whiskey stills from s/s and the spirits tasted awful so they had to
              bring copper into the vapour path.

              economics are not the main issue for most here, i would rather spend
              10 hours operating my still at home than 10 hours working in McDs. a
              bottle costs me 1 euro to make and 22euro in the shop. distilling is
              a hobby a past-time which people enjoy doing like cooking.

              Peter


              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "steve_j_alexander" <steve-
              alexander@a...> wrote:
              > Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest,
              purest
              > ethanol content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even
              > after paying the taxes your time would be better spent working a
              few
              > hours at MacDonalds and using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
              > ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your
              > goal uneconomic.
              >
              > > Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest
              > C2H5OH
              > > we possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very
              > > small amount of H2O.
              >
              > Boring.
              >
              >
              >
              > I disagree with Austin too in one regard. Copper *may* play a role
              > in some background flavors, but it is not the alcohol and copper
              that
              > are interacting. It's unlikely that excellent beverage brandy or
              > whisky cannot be distilled in stainless.
              >
              >
              > >> Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper
              vessel.
              > A
              > >> complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper
              and
              > the
              > >> hot alcoholic vapour
              >
              > That's myth and mystique. Where is the analysis to back that
              > extravegant claim ?
            • BOKAKOB
              Steve, in accepting your statements any homedistiller will ruin the aura of making it myself and accept the label of being a simple alcoholic. The other
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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                Steve, in accepting your statements any "homedistiller" will ruin the aura of "making it myself" and accept the label of being a simple alcoholic. The other way is the challenge, may be that is what you are missing. So, ease off a little. By the way, mentioning McDonald as the source of income tells me a lot...
                What do YOU brew?

                steve_j_alexander <steve-alexander@...> wrote:
                Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest, purest ethanol content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even after paying the taxes your time would be better spent working a few hours at MacDonalds and using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
                ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your goal uneconomic.

                > Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest C2H5OH we possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very small amount of H2O.

                Boring.

                I disagree with Austin too in one regard. Copper *may* play a role in some background flavors, but it is not the alcohol and copper that are interacting. It's unlikely that excellent beverage brandy or whisky cannot be distilled in stainless.

                >> Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper vessel. A complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper and the hot alcoholic vapour

                That's myth and mystique. Where is the analysis to back that extravegant claim ?


                I can be wrong I must say
                Cheers, Alex...



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              • Robert Elliott
                Hi Group, Not only that, when your friends come around and compliment you on your product (unless they are praising the fact that are receiving a freebie),
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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                  Hi Group,

                  Not only that, when your friends come around and compliment you on your
                  product (unless they are praising the fact that are receiving a freebie),
                  then it makes it all worthwhile. No hangovers here mate.

                  Cheers,

                  Bob.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "peter_vcb" <viciousblackout@...>
                  To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 8:58 PM
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: Moving on From Counter-Flow Cooling....


                  i wouldnt recommend drinking industrial alcohol, especially 99.9%
                  which may have benzene in it. i have never smelt industiral stuff
                  which was nice, and yes it was pure ethanol with taxes paid. i like
                  my pure alcohol since i get no hangovers from it too, when i was in
                  university some guys drank absolute ethanol and had splitting
                  headaches. very pure alcohol may seem "boring" but most mix it or add
                  essences so a pure product is what they want.

                  the copper does strip out sulphides and probably other nasties from
                  your alcohol, this is not a myth there are details on
                  www.homedistiller.org many on these groups have found this to be
                  fact, myself included. i have read that some distilleries made
                  whiskey stills from s/s and the spirits tasted awful so they had to
                  bring copper into the vapour path.

                  economics are not the main issue for most here, i would rather spend
                  10 hours operating my still at home than 10 hours working in McDs. a
                  bottle costs me 1 euro to make and 22euro in the shop. distilling is
                  a hobby a past-time which people enjoy doing like cooking.

                  Peter


                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "steve_j_alexander" <steve-
                  alexander@a...> wrote:
                  > Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest,
                  purest
                  > ethanol content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even
                  > after paying the taxes your time would be better spent working a
                  few
                  > hours at MacDonalds and using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
                  > ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your
                  > goal uneconomic.
                  >
                  > > Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest
                  > C2H5OH
                  > > we possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very
                  > > small amount of H2O.
                  >
                  > Boring.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I disagree with Austin too in one regard. Copper *may* play a role
                  > in some background flavors, but it is not the alcohol and copper
                  that
                  > are interacting. It's unlikely that excellent beverage brandy or
                  > whisky cannot be distilled in stainless.
                  >
                  >
                  > >> Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper
                  vessel.
                  > A
                  > >> complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper
                  and
                  > the
                  > >> hot alcoholic vapour
                  >
                  > That's myth and mystique. Where is the analysis to back that
                  > extravegant claim ?



                  To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to
                  distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                  FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org

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                • Robert Elliott
                  Heartfelt sentiments from more than 1 member ! ... From: BOKAKOB To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 9:28 PM
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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                    Heartfelt sentiments from more than 1 member !


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "BOKAKOB" <bokakob@...>
                    To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 9:28 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Moving on From Counter-Flow Cooling....


                    Steve, in accepting your statements any "homedistiller" will ruin the aura
                    of "making it myself" and accept the label of being a simple alcoholic. The
                    other way is the challenge, may be that is what you are missing. So, ease
                    off a little. By the way, mentioning McDonald as the source of income tells
                    me a lot...
                    What do YOU brew?

                    steve_j_alexander <steve-alexander@...> wrote:
                    Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest, purest ethanol
                    content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even after paying the
                    taxes your time would be better spent working a few hours at MacDonalds and
                    using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
                    ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your goal
                    uneconomic.
                  • Zarklan Zhaphedoix
                    Uses for homebrew industrial high quality alcohol. I read about a drink called Lemoncella and made some. Thi sis a wonderful drink and the neutral spirit
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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                      Uses for homebrew industrial high quality alcohol.

                      I read about a drink called Lemoncella and made some. Thi sis a wonderful drink and the neutral spirit makes it work.

                      My Recipe:

                      Peel the rind off of 4 lemons and put in a mayonaise jar(the peel). Fill the jar half way up to cover the lemon peels with the high quality neutral spirit. Dump in 1 cup of sugar. Fill the rest of the jar with water.

                      Let it sit for four days and decant the liquor into a fancy fliptop glass bottle.

                      Open, Drink, Impress

                      I gave some of this to a friend of mine that had the real lemoncella as a special gift from a resturant owner whilst my friend was on his honeymoon in Italy. He said that my crafted beverage was spot on.

                      Enjoy..

                      BOKAKOB <bokakob@...> wrote:
                      Steve, in accepting your statements any "homedistiller" will ruin the aura of "making it myself" and accept the label of being a simple alcoholic. The other way is the challenge, may be that is what you are missing. So, ease off a little. By the way, mentioning McDonald as the source of income tells me a lot...
                      What do YOU brew?

                      steve_j_alexander <steve-alexander@...> wrote:
                      Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest, purest ethanol content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even after paying the taxes your time would be better spent working a few hours at MacDonalds and using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
                      ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your goal uneconomic.

                      > Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest C2H5OH we possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very small amount of H2O.

                      Boring.

                      I disagree with Austin too in one regard. Copper *may* play a role in some background flavors, but it is not the alcohol and copper that are interacting. It's unlikely that excellent beverage brandy or whisky cannot be distilled in stainless.

                      >> Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper vessel. A complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper and the hot alcoholic vapour

                      That's myth and mystique. Where is the analysis to back that extravegant claim ?


                      I can be wrong I must say
                      Cheers, Alex...



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                    • Austin Smith
                      Is that the goal, here. Economics? Have you seen the stills some of these guys have built? I m thinking challenge, hobby, pleasure, adventure. And maybe
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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                        Is that the goal, here. Economics? Have you seen the stills some of these guys have built? I'm thinking challenge, hobby, pleasure, adventure. And maybe they save some money, too, but then maybe not.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Robert Elliott
                        Hi Group, Can you please be a little more accurate with the measurements, ie size of the jar (does it really have to be a mayonnaise jar??), strength of the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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                          Hi Group,

                          Can you please be a little more accurate with the measurements, ie size of
                          the jar (does it really have to be a mayonnaise jar??), strength of the
                          spirit. Sounds very interesting and I would like to try.

                          Cheers,

                          Bob

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Zarklan Zhaphedoix" <fermentsindarkness@...>
                          To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 11:23 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Moving on From Counter-Flow Cooling....


                          Uses for homebrew industrial high quality alcohol.

                          I read about a drink called Lemoncella and made some. Thi sis a wonderful
                          drink and the neutral spirit makes it work.

                          My Recipe:

                          Peel the rind off of 4 lemons and put in a mayonaise jar(the peel). Fill
                          the jar half way up to cover the lemon peels with the high quality neutral
                          spirit. Dump in 1 cup of sugar. Fill the rest of the jar with water.

                          Let it sit for four days and decant the liquor into a fancy fliptop glass
                          bottle.

                          Open, Drink, Impress

                          I gave some of this to a friend of mine that had the real lemoncella as a
                          special gift from a resturant owner whilst my friend was on his honeymoon
                          in Italy. He said that my crafted beverage was spot on.

                          Enjoy..

                          BOKAKOB <bokakob@...> wrote:
                          Steve, in accepting your statements any "homedistiller" will ruin the aura
                          of "making it myself" and accept the label of being a simple alcoholic. The
                          other way is the challenge, may be that is what you are missing. So, ease
                          off a little. By the way, mentioning McDonald as the source of income tells
                          me a lot...
                          What do YOU brew?

                          steve_j_alexander <steve-alexander@...> wrote:
                          Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest, purest ethanol
                          content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even after paying the
                          taxes your time would be better spent working a few hours at MacDonalds and
                          using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
                          ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your goal
                          uneconomic.

                          > Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest C2H5OH we
                          possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very small amount
                          of H2O.

                          Boring.

                          I disagree with Austin too in one regard. Copper *may* play a role in some
                          background flavors, but it is not the alcohol and copper that are
                          interacting. It's unlikely that excellent beverage brandy or whisky cannot
                          be distilled in stainless.

                          >> Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper vessel. A
                          complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper and the hot
                          alcoholic vapour

                          That's myth and mystique. Where is the analysis to back that extravegant
                          claim ?


                          I can be wrong I must say
                          Cheers, Alex...



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                        • rodmacd2000
                          The point is to produce a very smooth neutral tasting vodka which will not cause hangover symptoms. I personally mix it with sufficient fruit juice so that
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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                            The point is to produce a very smooth neutral tasting vodka which
                            will not cause hangover symptoms. I personally mix it with sufficient
                            fruit juice so that dehydration is not an issue. Others use it as a
                            basis for gin or mix with one of the many essences which are readily
                            available.

                            This is not for everyone, of course. Strangely to me some people seem
                            to enjoy ethyl alcohol which has a little ethyl acetate, propyl
                            alcohol etc mixed in. I dunno - maybe they are a little masochistic
                            and get some pleasure from a hangover?

                            To each his/her own.

                            PS I believe it is reasonably well established that copper somewhere
                            in your still (column, packing, condensation coil) will react with
                            any nasty smelling hydrogen sulphide which may be in your wash water.

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "steve_j_alexander" <steve-
                            alexander@a...> wrote:
                            > Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest,
                            purest
                            > ethanol content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even
                            > after paying the taxes your time would be better spent working a
                            few
                            > hours at MacDonalds and using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
                            > ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your
                            > goal uneconomic.
                            >
                            > > Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest
                            > C2H5OH
                            > > we possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very
                            > > small amount of H2O.
                            >
                            > Boring.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I disagree with Austin too in one regard. Copper *may* play a role
                            > in some background flavors, but it is not the alcohol and copper
                            that
                            > are interacting. It's unlikely that excellent beverage brandy or
                            > whisky cannot be distilled in stainless.
                            >
                            >
                            > >> Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper
                            vessel.
                            > A
                            > >> complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper
                            and
                            > the
                            > >> hot alcoholic vapour
                            >
                            > That's myth and mystique. Where is the analysis to back that
                            > extravegant claim ?
                          • Zarklan Zhaphedoix
                            Sorry about the measurement problem. The Mayonnaise jar I used was a quart. So being a little more specific... the recipe is as follows: Remove the outmost
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 24, 2003
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                              Sorry about the measurement problem.

                              The Mayonnaise jar I used was a quart.

                              So being a little more specific... the recipe is as follows:

                              Remove the outmost layer of the peel from 4 lemons each being about 4/5th the size of a healthy man's fist(mine).

                              Place the peels in a quart jar.

                              Fill the jar with some uncut high quality 90%+ ethanol. This should take @1 pint

                              Add one cup of sugar

                              Fill the rest of the jar with about a 1pint with tap water

                              Place lid on jar and shake like the devil

                              I put mine in a cabinet for 4 days and then decanted off the lemony yellow drink. I used a funnel and stored it in a fancy french sparkling lemonade bottle with a ceramic(plastic) cap and wire bail.

                              It really was a hit and is easy to make.

                              Let me know if you make it and how you like it.



                              Robert Elliott <r_selliott@...> wrote:
                              Hi Group,

                              Can you please be a little more accurate with the measurements, ie size of
                              the jar (does it really have to be a mayonnaise jar??), strength of the
                              spirit. Sounds very interesting and I would like to try.

                              Cheers,

                              Bob

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Zarklan Zhaphedoix" <fermentsindarkness@...>
                              To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 11:23 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Moving on From Counter-Flow Cooling....


                              Uses for homebrew industrial high quality alcohol.

                              I read about a drink called Lemoncella and made some. Thi sis a wonderful
                              drink and the neutral spirit makes it work.

                              My Recipe:

                              Peel the rind off of 4 lemons and put in a mayonaise jar(the peel). Fill
                              the jar half way up to cover the lemon peels with the high quality neutral
                              spirit. Dump in 1 cup of sugar. Fill the rest of the jar with water.

                              Let it sit for four days and decant the liquor into a fancy fliptop glass
                              bottle.

                              Open, Drink, Impress

                              I gave some of this to a friend of mine that had the real lemoncella as a
                              special gift from a resturant owner whilst my friend was on his honeymoon
                              in Italy. He said that my crafted beverage was spot on.

                              Enjoy..

                              BOKAKOB <bokakob@...> wrote:
                              Steve, in accepting your statements any "homedistiller" will ruin the aura
                              of "making it myself" and accept the label of being a simple alcoholic. The
                              other way is the challenge, may be that is what you are missing. So, ease
                              off a little. By the way, mentioning McDonald as the source of income tells
                              me a lot...
                              What do YOU brew?

                              steve_j_alexander <steve-alexander@...> wrote:
                              Rodmac - what exactly is the point of distilling for highest, purest ethanol
                              content ? Industrial alcohol like this is cheap and even after paying the
                              taxes your time would be better spent working a few hours at MacDonalds and
                              using the proceeds to purchase lab grade
                              ethanol. The time and effort of small scale distilling make your goal
                              uneconomic.

                              > Many of us are simply interested in producing the very purest C2H5OH we
                              possibly can with absolutely no other "impurity" except a very small amount
                              of H2O.

                              Boring.

                              I disagree with Austin too in one regard. Copper *may* play a role in some
                              background flavors, but it is not the alcohol and copper that are
                              interacting. It's unlikely that excellent beverage brandy or whisky cannot
                              be distilled in stainless.

                              >> Any fine beverage alcohol has to be distilled in a copper vessel. A
                              complicated catalytic reaction takes place between the copper and the hot
                              alcoholic vapour

                              That's myth and mystique. Where is the analysis to back that extravegant
                              claim ?


                              I can be wrong I must say
                              Cheers, Alex...



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