Re: whimsical humor and a high ph
- Useful to know more as the polish-vodka site claims that sugar
produces no fusels! Vodka is also made in continuos stills using
sugar beet molasses, so maybe they are referring to this source.
--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Hector A. Landaeta C."
> On 30/6/03 5:07 PM, "avisorropos" <avisorropos@n...> wrote:please let me
> > Fermenting sucrose gives the worst fermentation by-products
> > possible!). i find this hard to believe. based on what evidence
> > can u make this clame.
> I¹ll try to keep it simple so if something doesn¹t ring a bell
> know. I was once told by a wise professor that when you dominatethoroughly
> a theme you can explain it in so many simple words. So perhaps Iwill be
> advertising lacks both in knowledge and depth with this but I¹lltry my
> Yeast, as simple a living organism as it is, has some complex
> needs, certainly more than just sucrose. However there¹s a widevariety of
> yeast strains who¹s needs differ widely. Alcohol producing strainsfall
> always under the Saccharomyces family, and they, and theirmetabolic needs
> and environment adaptation pathways have been the subject of muchstudy.
> There are ³usual² metabolic mechanisms for the fermentation ofgrape juice,
> beer wort, et all, by specific members of the Saccharomyces family(e.g.
> bayanus or capensis in wine, cerevisae and carlsbergensis / uvarumin beer).
> All of those mechanisms require the presence of their specificsugar and
> nutrient carrying mediums (grape or apple juice, malt wort, etc.)because
> their specific yeasts are perfectly adapted to this environments.There¹s
> no such thing as an alcohol producing yeast strain that can thrivein such a
> nutrient deprived medium as a sugar (sucrose) wash. Saccharomycesfamily
> strains are all adapted to nutrient rich environments as thosecited before,
> but being that there¹s no other organism in earth that adapts andmutates as
> readily and fast as yeast (that¹s a fact, and it¹s why yeast is thenatural
> ³guinea pig² in cellular death studies that are being advancedright now in
> the hope of learning to fight cancer), it always finds a way tosurvive as
> long as some type of nourishment can be found. This ³ways² almostcertainly
> imply a certain loss in the edible qualities of the fermentedproduct
> because the chemical compounds generated by starving and abusedyeasts
> usually form azeotropic bonds with the ethanol molecule, which isthe
> product you concentrate when you distill an alcohol carryingsubstance.
> This compounds are mainly fusel alcohols, esters like amyl and ethylmercaptin
> acetate; diacetyl, acetaldehyde and sulfur compounds like ethyl
> and dimethyl sulfide and disulfide, just to mention the beer (myspecialty)
> pertinent, but universal in this scenario, by-products.list ³turbo²
> I understand that the much popular with the subscribers of this
> yeast products are no more than specially packaged Saccharomycesstrains
> that include the bare necessities (in nutritional terms) that yeastwill
> need to barely ferment just one sucrose based batch. That¹s whyyou guys
> find the notion of re-pitching your yeast so alien. I believeturbos are a
> very good thing for the yeast industry and truly they deserved abreak. But
> I find they could try to strike a more consumer wise equilibrium onpricing
> (IMO they¹re obscenely expensive). However there¹s a notion that Ibelieve
> would make this group improve exponentially their distilledproducts (and
> that I haven¹t read about in any post so far) and it¹s thatwhatever you can
> do to enhance your wash¹s quality as a fermented product brings byitself a
> better spirit. I¹m no fanatic on this. I don¹t drink my molasseswines,
> for instance (though my whiskey¹s beers are just as good as theproduct I
> sell commercially, sans the hops, of course). It¹s just littlethings you
> need to do to avoid the basic problems, like always boiling andquickly
> cooling the wash, aerating the cooled wash prior to inoculation,keeping the
> fermentation temp below 23 deg. centigrade, and the original sugarwork
> concentration below 17-19º Brix (1.070-1.079 s.g.), and of course,
> sanitarily. That¹s all.as you
> I can get as deep into the ³science² of the abused yeast phenomena
> like. I can write about the ³shock amino acid excretion² effect orthe
> valine-diacetyl balance or the Erlich pathway and the sugarmetabolism
> biosynthetic mechanism. Just let me know and I can write to youprivately
> because I doubt the group would be interested. I hope this would be
> evidence enough for you.
> Salud compañeros!
> Hector Landaeta.
> Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.
Cooper and it's use in high-end stillsHector A. Landaeta C. wrote:
Subject: [Distillers] Cooper and it's use in high-end stills
Very interesting, thanks Mike. Your knowledge in this subjects is not less than encyclopedic. I wonder why this German manufacturers swear so much on copper for their material of choice for still making.======================Dunno about 'encyclopaedic'. Just been around a bit longer than some :-)I think the German manufacturers prefer copper for the same reasons as the Scots do for their whisky stills. It does seem to have a very pronounced effect if you switch from copper to stainless steel. One distillery apparently tried replacing their old copper still with a shiny new modern stainless one, and the results were reported to be horrible.Mike N