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Re: whimsical humor and a high ph

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  • waljaco
    Useful to know more as the polish-vodka site claims that sugar produces no fusels! Vodka is also made in continuos stills using sugar beet molasses, so maybe
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2003
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      Useful to know more as the polish-vodka site claims that sugar
      produces no fusels! Vodka is also made in continuos stills using
      sugar beet molasses, so maybe they are referring to this source.
      Wal

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Hector A. Landaeta C."
      <coloniera@c...> wrote:
      > On 30/6/03 5:07 PM, "avisorropos" <avisorropos@n...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Fermenting sucrose gives the worst fermentation by-products
      > > possible!). i find this hard to believe. based on what evidence
      > > can u make this clame.
      > >
      > I¹ll try to keep it simple so if something doesn¹t ring a bell
      please let me
      > know. I was once told by a wise professor that when you dominate
      thoroughly
      > a theme you can explain it in so many simple words. So perhaps I
      will be
      > advertising lacks both in knowledge and depth with this but I¹ll
      try my
      > best.
      >
      > Yeast, as simple a living organism as it is, has some complex
      nutritional
      > needs, certainly more than just sucrose. However there¹s a wide
      variety of
      > yeast strains who¹s needs differ widely. Alcohol producing strains
      fall
      > always under the Saccharomyces family, and they, and their
      metabolic needs
      > and environment adaptation pathways have been the subject of much
      study.
      > There are ³usual² metabolic mechanisms for the fermentation of
      grape juice,
      > beer wort, et all, by specific members of the Saccharomyces family
      (e.g.
      > bayanus or capensis in wine, cerevisae and carlsbergensis / uvarum
      in beer).
      > All of those mechanisms require the presence of their specific
      sugar and
      > nutrient carrying mediums (grape or apple juice, malt wort, etc.)
      because
      > their specific yeasts are perfectly adapted to this environments.
      There¹s
      > no such thing as an alcohol producing yeast strain that can thrive
      in such a
      > nutrient deprived medium as a sugar (sucrose) wash. Saccharomyces
      family
      > strains are all adapted to nutrient rich environments as those
      cited before,
      > but being that there¹s no other organism in earth that adapts and
      mutates as
      > readily and fast as yeast (that¹s a fact, and it¹s why yeast is the
      natural
      > ³guinea pig² in cellular death studies that are being advanced
      right now in
      > the hope of learning to fight cancer), it always finds a way to
      survive as
      > long as some type of nourishment can be found. This ³ways² almost
      certainly
      > imply a certain loss in the edible qualities of the fermented
      product
      > because the chemical compounds generated by starving and abused
      yeasts
      > usually form azeotropic bonds with the ethanol molecule, which is
      the
      > product you concentrate when you distill an alcohol carrying
      substance.
      > This compounds are mainly fusel alcohols, esters like amyl and ethyl
      > acetate; diacetyl, acetaldehyde and sulfur compounds like ethyl
      mercaptin
      > and dimethyl sulfide and disulfide, just to mention the beer (my
      specialty)
      > pertinent, but universal in this scenario, by-products.
      >
      > I understand that the much popular with the subscribers of this
      list ³turbo²
      > yeast products are no more than specially packaged Saccharomyces
      strains
      > that include the bare necessities (in nutritional terms) that yeast
      will
      > need to barely ferment just one sucrose based batch. That¹s why
      you guys
      > find the notion of re-pitching your yeast so alien. I believe
      turbos are a
      > very good thing for the yeast industry and truly they deserved a
      break. But
      > I find they could try to strike a more consumer wise equilibrium on
      pricing
      > (IMO they¹re obscenely expensive). However there¹s a notion that I
      believe
      > would make this group improve exponentially their distilled
      products (and
      > that I haven¹t read about in any post so far) and it¹s that
      whatever you can
      > do to enhance your wash¹s quality as a fermented product brings by
      itself a
      > better spirit. I¹m no fanatic on this. I don¹t drink my molasses
      wines,
      > for instance (though my whiskey¹s beers are just as good as the
      product I
      > sell commercially, sans the hops, of course). It¹s just little
      things you
      > need to do to avoid the basic problems, like always boiling and
      quickly
      > cooling the wash, aerating the cooled wash prior to inoculation,
      keeping the
      > fermentation temp below 23 deg. centigrade, and the original sugar
      > concentration below 17-19º Brix (1.070-1.079 s.g.), and of course,
      work
      > sanitarily. That¹s all.
      >
      > I can get as deep into the ³science² of the abused yeast phenomena
      as you
      > like. I can write about the ³shock amino acid excretion² effect or
      the
      > valine-diacetyl balance or the Erlich pathway and the sugar
      metabolism
      > biosynthetic mechanism. Just let me know and I can write to you
      privately
      > because I doubt the group would be interested. I hope this would be
      > evidence enough for you.
      > Salud compañeros!
      > --
      > Hector Landaeta.
      > Colonia Tovar - Venezuela.
    • Mike Nixon
      Cooper and it s use in high-end stillsHector A. Landaeta C. wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Cooper and it s use in high-end stills re...Schweizer s reagent. Very
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 1, 2003
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        Cooper and it's use in high-end stills
        Hector A. Landaeta C. wrote:
        Subject: [Distillers] Cooper and it's use in high-end stills
        re...Schweizer's reagent. 

        Very interesting, thanks Mike.  Your knowledge in this subjects is not less than encyclopedic.  I wonder why this German manufacturers swear so much on copper for their material of choice for still making. 
        ======================
        Dunno about 'encyclopaedic'.  Just been around a bit longer than some :-)
        I think the German manufacturers prefer copper for the same reasons as the Scots do for their whisky stills.  It does seem to have a very pronounced effect if you switch from copper to stainless steel.  One distillery apparently tried replacing their old copper still with a shiny new modern stainless one, and the results were reported to be horrible.
        Mike N
         
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