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• 136W and you get 600 ml per hour, that s a refluxratio lower than 1. 600 ml, you mean 600 ml 95 %? How high is your column? And what diameter does it have?
Message 1 of 9 , Jun 1, 2003
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136W and you get 600 ml per hour, that’s a refluxratio lower than 1.

600 ml, you mean 600 ml 95 %?

How high is your column?

And what diameter does it have?

What packing do you use?

How is the quality of the spirits you get?

Do you have to use activated carbon to get it pure?

How strong alcohol do you distil?

Something got to be wrong, you ought to loose 136W in heat loss alone or we use far too much power in our stills

Johan

Hi Guys (haven't heard any females on this list serve yet...pity)

Just a few thoughts.

In New Zealand we are currently being asked by the government to save 10% on our usual power consumption.

Well heres a few calculations I did.

My 50 litre still has 2 X 1500w elements to start it off.

When in equilibrium I switch to one element and use my power controller.

the element is 36 ohms

the voltage is 70v (using the controller)

so I am now running my still on 136 watts. about 2 light bulbs worth!

To achieve this I have also lagged the still and the tower with foam.

Head temperature is 71.2oC and purity 95% at 600ml per hour.

cheers

Allan

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• Can t help feeling there must be something wrong with your calculations. Given the known physical constants involved a back-of-the-envelope calculation tells
Message 2 of 9 , Jun 1, 2003
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Can't help feeling there must be something wrong with your
calculations.

Given the known physical constants involved a back-of-the-envelope
calculation tells us that under ideal conditions (i.e. perfect
insulation) it requires 0.216 watts of power to produce 1.0 ml/hour
of Azeotrope.

So your 136 watts is capable of producing 630 ml/hour of reflux. Fine
but to get a 95% pure output you must be run under a reasonably high
reflux ratio (typically 10:1) and therefore your actual product
output will be something like 70 ml/hour.

On the other hand if your numbers are correct you've discovered a new
principle of distillation which should be worth many millions if you
patent it before some other member of this forum!

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Allan Goldsmith" <goldsmith@w...>
wrote:
> Hi Guys (haven't heard any females on this list serve yet...pity)
> Just a few thoughts.
> In New Zealand we are currently being asked by the government to
save 10% on our usual power consumption.
> Well heres a few calculations I did.
> My 50 litre still has 2 X 1500w elements to start it off.
> When in equilibrium I switch to one element and use my power
controller.
> the element is 36 ohms
> the voltage is 70v (using the controller)
> so I am now running my still on 136 watts. about 2 light bulbs
worth!
> To achieve this I have also lagged the still and the tower with
foam.
> Head temperature is 71.2oC and purity 95% at 600ml per hour.
> cheers
> Allan
• what happens if it is just ideal conditions and there is no need for reflux? if vapors travel up the column and achieve refinement without reflux, why is it
Message 3 of 9 , Jun 1, 2003
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what happens if it is just ideal conditions and there is no need for reflux? if vapors travel up the column and achieve refinement without reflux, why is it impossible?

rodmacd2000 <rmacdoug@...> wrote:
... (snip) but to get a 95% pure output you must be run under a reasonably high
reflux ratio (typically 10:1) and therefore your actual product
output will be something like 70 ml/hour.

I can be wrong I must say
Cheers, Alex...
A

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• Let’s say that we have no reflux, then vapours travels through the column and nothing happens. If we have little reflux: In the still the reflux meets warmer
Message 4 of 9 , Jun 1, 2003
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Let’s say that we have no reflux, then vapours travels through the column and nothing happens.

If we have little reflux:

In the still the reflux meets warmer vapour from the lower part of the column, this makes the reflux boil and is leaving a stronger alcohol content in the vapour that travels upwards and meets more reflux. But if we have little reflux, the alcohol content will decrease quickly in the reflux so the alcohol in the vapour won’t be much stronger since the reflux wont be strong.

If we have plenty of reflux, every theoretical bottom in the still will act close to a pot still since the percentage in the reflux wont decrease much.

But lowering the power will maybe increase the efficiency of the packing and that will give you more theoretical bottoms in the still that compensates for lower relux ratio. The question is how much better the packing performs. Still another reason to test different power input in a short still.

It’s actually not that tricky to calculate the approximate alcohol content on every bottom in the still, at least if the still have physical bottoms, but if we approximate a theoretical bottom with scrubbers to 10 cm then it should be the same procedure with packing as with physical bottoms.

If I got some part wrong, please correct me.

Johan

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: BOKAKOB [m
ailto:bokakob@...]
Skickat: den 1 juni 2003 19:47
Till: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
Ämne: Re: [Distillers] Re: Saving power

what happens if it is just ideal conditions and there is no need for reflux? if vapors travel up the column and achieve refinement without reflux, why is it impossible?

rodmacd2000 <rmacdoug@...> wrote:

... (snip) but to get a 95% pure output you must be run under a reasonably high
reflux ratio (typically 10:1) and therefore your actual product
output will be something like 70 ml/hour.

I can be wrong I must say
Cheers, Alex...

A

Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to   distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org

• Let’s say that we have no reflux, then vapours travels through the column and nothing happens. If we have little reflux: In the still the reflux meets warmer
Message 5 of 9 , Jun 1, 2003
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Let’s say that we have no reflux, then vapours travels through the column and nothing happens.

If we have little reflux:

In the still the reflux meets warmer vapour from the lower part of the column, this makes the reflux boil and is leaving a stronger alcohol content in the vapour that travels upwards and meets more reflux. But if we have little reflux, the alcohol content will decrease quickly in the reflux so the alcohol in the vapour won’t be much stronger.

If we have plenty of reflux, every theoretical bottom in the still will act close to a pot still since the percentage in the reflux wont decrease much.

But lowering the power will maybe increase the efficiency of the packing and that will give you more theoretical bottoms in the still that compensates for lower relux ratio. The question is how much better the packing performs. Still another reason to test different power input in a short still.

It’s actually not that tricky to calculate the approximate alcohol content on every bottom in the still, at least if the still have physical bottoms, but if we approximate a theoretical bottom with scrubbers to 10 cm then

Johan

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: BOKAKOB [mailto:
bokakob@...]
Skickat: den 1 juni 2003 19:47
Till: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
Ämne: Re: [Distillers] Re: Saving power

what happens if it is just ideal conditions and there is no need for reflux? if vapors travel up the column and achieve refinement without reflux, why is it impossible?

rodmacd2000 <rmacdoug@...> wrote:

... (snip) but to get a 95% pure output you must be run under a reasonably high
reflux ratio (typically 10:1) and therefore your actual product
output will be something like 70 ml/hour.

I can be wrong I must say
Cheers, Alex...

A

Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).

 To unsubscribe from this group send a blank email to   distillers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Distillers list archives : http://archive.nnytech.net/ FAQ and other information at http://homedistiller.org Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. rodmacd2000Ideal conditions refers to the assumption that the boiler and column are so well insulated that there is no heat loss from them. This doesn t negate the Message 6 of 9 , Jun 2, 2003 Expand MessagesView Source 0 Attachment"Ideal conditions" refers to the assumption that the boiler and column are so well insulated that there is no heat loss from them. This doesn't negate the necessity for a packed column and a large percentage of distillate (reflux) being returned to filter down thru the packing. If this is not done then the still simply operates as a pot skill (no matter how well insulated) and therefore cannot attain a purity even approaching 95-96% --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, BOKAKOB wrote: > what happens if it is just ideal conditions and there is no need for reflux? if vapors travel up the column and achieve refinement without reflux, why is it impossible? > > rodmacd2000 wrote:... (snip) but to get a 95% pure output you must be run under a reasonably high > reflux ratio (typically 10:1) and therefore your actual product > output will be something like 70 ml/hour. > > > > I can be wrong I must say > Cheers, Alex... > A > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). BOKAKOBI agree with that. However, if the temperature gradient ends at the top of the packed column and does not extend in the condenser area (imagine a cristmass Message 7 of 9 , Jun 2, 2003 Expand MessagesView Source 0 AttachmentI agree with that. However, if the temperature gradient ends at the top of the packed column and does not extend in the condenser area (imagine a cristmass tree diagram of heat input, ending at the top of the column), the reflux is happening below the take-off point. In this case it is possible to adjust power, so only distillate fractions which boil above the take-off point condense and get removed. The output will depend on the ability of the packed column below to reflux/return the vapor/liquid mixture. It means that a narrow column will provide much less output compared with the wide column. I personally had a case when adjusting heat of the burner I was able to stop distillate dripping when temperature rose above 79-80 degrees. It just stopped. When I increased the heat level the temperature creaped up and distillate started to condense again but with additives of tails.rodmacd2000 wrote:"Ideal conditions" refers to the assumption that the boiler and column are so well insulated that there is no heat loss from them. This doesn't negate the necessity for a packed column and a large percentage of distillate (reflux) being returned to filter down thru the packing. If this is not done then the still simply operates as a pot skill (no matter how well insulated) and therefore cannot attain a purity even approaching 95-96% I can be wrong I must sayCheers, Alex...A Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.