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49085Re: Graphene filter

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  • tgfoitwoods
    Mar 22, 2013
      Robert,

      This is why I asked about the chemical equation for the process. For instance, here is an equation for reacting the simplest hydrocarbon, methane, with oxygen, to yield carbon dioxide and water. This reaction is commonly called combustion.
      CH4 + 2O2 -> CO2 + 2H2O PLUS 891 kJ/mol energy.

      Now what you propose to do is exactly that equation, but with the "yields" arrow pointing the other direction. It is implicit in almost any chemical equation that the arrow actually points both ways, depending on the conditions, and what you want to happen.

      So now we get the equation that represents what you wanted;
      CO2 + 2H2O PLUS 891 kJ/mol energy -> CH4 + 2O2
      So you can do exactly what you propose, and it seems that Eddie's platinum-catalyzed process is one way to do that, but the most important thing you need to know is that you need to put exactly the same amount of energy into CO2 and H2O to get methane and water, as you get from burning that methane. That's the TANSTAAFL principle, "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch, sometimes called the law of conservation of energy.

      So there's no reason to create methane, or any other hydrocarbon that way, unless you live in a world with lots of very cheap energy and no hydrocarbons, not the world most of us live in.

      What's happening here is that this discussion is changing from people who want to make and drink pleasant beverages to how to make fuel (including especially for Werner Von Braun's A4, which got renamed to the V2) and manage energy. To continue this discussion it should really be taken to one of the ethanol fuel forums, like http://forum-alcohol4fuel.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18.

      Understand that for many of us, the important issue is not how to separate ethanol and water, but how to make things that taste good, whiskeys, rums, brandies, even vodkas, for some, and speculations on purifying ethanol don't help us much toward that end.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
      >
      > Z Bob:
      >
      > That is way over my head.  Currently, scientist can turn CO2 into hydrocarbon by placing electrodes into a chemical solution similar to wash.  Applying electric energy to those electrodes causes the formation of hydrocarbon.  My idea is a variation of what science is doing in that area, but my main problem is oxygen will be released.  Increasing oxygen helps yeast growth, and oxygen hinders alcohol production by yeast.  It might be possible to do this slowly as the beginning, and then crank it up later on during fermentation.  It will be an experiment to see what will happen.  My main goal will be to see if water and alcohol can be separated by breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen.  Hydrocarbon is just an added bonus.  Electric energy for this experiment is not a problem.
      >
      > Robert
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...
      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:22 PM
      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Graphene filter
      >
      >
      >  
      > Robert,
      >
      > Any idea what that equation might look like?
      >
      > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
      >
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB last2blast@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Wal:
      > >
      > > At a future time, one of my experiments will be to try and transform CO2 into hydrocarbon during fermentation.  If that works it can be used to heat my stills.  It will be interesting to see what happens to alcohol when hydrogen and CO2 is turned into a hydrocarbon. 
      > >
      > >
      > > Robert
      >
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