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Clear Base Stock question

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  • scott_now_coming
    Hi Paul, Since clear base stock and cleaning fluid are the same, if you were to mix up a batch of clear stock to use as cleaning fluid, would you leave out the
    Message 1 of 21 , May 1, 2008
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      Hi Paul,

      Since clear base stock and cleaning fluid are the same, if you were to
      mix up a batch of clear stock to use as cleaning fluid, would you leave
      out the Photo-Flo?

      Thanks,
      Scott
    • Roger
      ... Hi Paul, Thank you very much for your answers. Do you find there is a reason you are using the Ultrachrome ink from older printers? I know you prefer
      Message 2 of 21 , May 1, 2008
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        > > would an Epson OEM ultrachrome yellow sucked out of a
        > > cart like for the 3800 work?
        >
        > I used 7600 carts for my Epson color inks. An MIS bottom fill
        > adapter with the end cut to 7 mm works well. See
        > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Mod_Bot_Fill.jpg You'll note I
        >went to Epson K2 LM in the later toned workflows. The MIS cyan is >good.

        Hi Paul,
        Thank you very much for your answers.

        Do you find there is a reason you are using the Ultrachrome ink from
        older printers? I know you prefer matte paper but I do like
        flexibility to use fiber-type glossy as well at times. I thought the
        newer inks had less bronzing and other benefits on gloss-type papers.

        It looks like the 7600 and 4800 both use 110ml Ultrachrome cartridges
        but the 4800 ink is described as Ultrachrome K3. The 4880 even has
        220ml carts that are a bit cheaper on a per ml basis.

        Quick Math:
        Epson 7600 or 4800 110ML= 3.7 oz for $70
        Epson 4800 220ML= 7.4 oz for $112
        MIS "K4" is 4oz for $18
      • Michael T. Murphy
        ... They can all use 220ml carts. Real world price is about $82 to $85 shipped for a 220ml cart.
        Message 3 of 21 , May 1, 2008
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          > "Roger" <rsmith02@...> wrote:
          >
          > It looks like the 7600 and 4800 both use 110ml
          > Ultrachrome cartridges but the 4800 ink
          >

          They can all use 220ml carts.

          Real world price is about $82 to $85 shipped for a 220ml cart.
        • pr_roark
          ... They re not quite the same. The cleaning fluid is diluted to make it thinner -- easier to get into glogs. ... No, the wetting agent would also make it
          Message 4 of 21 , May 1, 2008
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            > Since clear base stock and cleaning fluid are the same,

            They're not quite the same. The cleaning fluid is diluted to make it
            thinner -- easier to get into glogs.

            > if you were to mix up a batch of clear stock to use as
            > cleaning fluid, would you leave out the Photo-Flo?

            No, the wetting agent would also make it easier for the fluid to get
            into the clogged areas. Surfactants are primary components of
            cleaners.

            Paul
            www.PaulRoark.com
          • pr_roark
            ... I don t think the old K2 inks are better; that was just what my profiles were made for. By the way, I also tried Epson archival LM, but the 7600 LM did
            Message 5 of 21 , May 1, 2008
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              > Do you find there is a reason you are using the Ultrachrome ink from
              > older printers?

              I don't think the old K2 inks are better; that was just what my
              profiles were made for.

              By the way, I also tried Epson archival LM, but the 7600 LM did
              slightly better in my tests. I never tested a K3 LM.

              Paul
              www.PaulRoark.com
            • scott_now_coming
              Thanks. One last question: I noticed somewhere that you now use the Y position for one of the 3mk s instead of the GLOP postion. Will the curves and/or
              Message 6 of 21 , May 2, 2008
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                Thanks. One last question:

                I noticed somewhere that you now use the Y position for one of the
                3mk's instead of the GLOP postion.

                Will the curves and/or profiles that ship with QTR work with one of the
                3 MK's installed in the Y position?

                Thanks in advance for your help.

                Scott




                --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
                <pr_roark@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > > Since clear base stock and cleaning fluid are the same,
                >
                > They're not quite the same. The cleaning fluid is diluted to make it
                > thinner -- easier to get into glogs.
                >
                > > if you were to mix up a batch of clear stock to use as
                > > cleaning fluid, would you leave out the Photo-Flo?
                >
                > No, the wetting agent would also make it easier for the fluid to get
                > into the clogged areas. Surfactants are primary components of
                > cleaners.
                >
                > Paul
                > www.PaulRoark.com
                >
              • Mark McCarvill
                Paul (or others who mix their own cleaning fluid) - If the Carbon-6 base is: 62 distilled water / 28 glycerol / 10 Photo Flo, what would be a recommended mix
                Message 7 of 21 , May 2, 2008
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                  Paul (or others who mix their own cleaning fluid) -

                  If the Carbon-6 base is: 62 distilled water / 28 glycerol / 10 Photo
                  Flo, what would be a recommended mix for cleaning fluid? Something
                  like 80: 10: 10?

                  Thanks,

                  Mark

                  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
                  <pr_roark@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > > Since clear base stock and cleaning fluid are the same,
                  >
                  > They're not quite the same. The cleaning fluid is diluted to make it
                  > thinner -- easier to get into glogs.
                  >
                  > > if you were to mix up a batch of clear stock to use as
                  > > cleaning fluid, would you leave out the Photo-Flo?
                  >
                  > No, the wetting agent would also make it easier for the fluid to get
                  > into the clogged areas. Surfactants are primary components of
                  > cleaners.
                  >
                  > Paul
                  > www.PaulRoark.com
                  >
                • pr_roark
                  Scott, ... I ve had one of the MK s in the C position for a while so I could use glop in it s OEM position. My reasoning for the glop there was that there may
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 2, 2008
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                    Scott,


                    >
                    > I noticed somewhere that you now use the Y position for one of the
                    > 3mk's instead of the GLOP postion.
                    >
                    > Will the curves and/or profiles that ship with QTR work with
                    > one of the 3 MK's installed in the Y position?


                    I've had one of the MK's in the C position for a while so I could use
                    glop in it's OEM position. My reasoning for the glop there was that
                    there may be a reason for Epson to do that, including having it's
                    nozzle check procedure, hopefully, able to detect a problem with glop
                    in that position.

                    But, while I make new profiles for the "C-3MK" setup, I switch the
                    curves to the standard 3MK ink positions for others and for
                    consistency. It's very easy to switch things around this way in
                    QTR. So, while I have not updated the profiles for QTR, if I do
                    they'll remain in the default position that people who also want the
                    printer for color expect.


                    As the the alternatives, note that I've had a number of other
                    arrangements in the 1800, but to me it is predominantly a matte
                    carbon printer for non-OBA paper and where ultra smoothness is not
                    needed.

                    I had a PK in Y last, but I removed it because my MP-PK ink was too
                    prone to nozzle problems. Y now has my clear base in it.

                    I left the glop in its OEM position because I can make a reasonably
                    good neutral 100% carbon glossy print with it mixed with Eboni in the
                    deep shadows, about 70% on -- when such is sprayed with Print
                    Shield. The glop makes it much easier to get a smooth spray on the
                    heavy Eboni areas.

                    I think the Print Shield makes a better looking print and more
                    durable protective coating than glop. See how neutral the tones are
                    on Ilford Gold at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/R1800-Glossy.pdf

                    The main reason I'd use a glossy print is if it is not behind glass.
                    For behind glazing, matte is still my medium of choice. But if I do
                    need a glossy not behind class, the harder surface of the Print
                    Shield is going to stand up much better than glop to abraision or
                    other environmental hazards.

                    For casual glossy B&W prints there are lots of easier ways to get
                    there.

                    The 1800 is for the long haul and, for me, mostly for 3MK. Eboni and
                    clear base will hopefully keep it doing its thing for many trouble
                    free years.

                    Paul
                    www.PaulRoark.com
                  • pr_roark
                    By the way, I use my regular 35% glycerol mix (see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf ) in carts where I want a clear fluid. I want moisture
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 2, 2008
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                      By the way, I use my regular 35% glycerol mix (see
                      http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf ) in carts where I want
                      a clear fluid. I want moisture holding power of the glycerol on that
                      pad to keep things from drying out. If you have a persistent clog in a
                      nozzle that you need to clean out, that is a different matter. That is
                      when you want a lower viscosity, and maybe even a little isopropyl
                      alcohol in the mix (and or windex).

                      Paul
                      www.PaulRoark.com
                    • mbrouphy
                      Paul, Do you have the lengthy version of this procedure available. I read and reread the procedure and started working on it using our Epson 636 oldie but
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 2, 2008
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                        Paul, Do you have the lengthy version of this procedure available. I
                        read and reread the procedure and started working on it using our Epson
                        636 oldie but goodie. Incorporating the changes somewhere along the
                        line snowed me. I guess it's a senior moment but I could use some more
                        detailed description of the whole workflow.

                        Thanks, Mike

                        --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
                        <pr_roark@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Mike,
                        >
                        > >...I'm ready to go from scanner
                        > > calibration all the way through ink mixing and print testing.
                        >
                        >
                        > There is a shortened and slightly revised version of my notes on
                        using
                        > a flatbed scanner for ICCs at
                        > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Making_B-W_ICCs.pdf
                        >
                        > Paul
                        > www.PaulRoark.com
                        >
                      • pr_roark
                        Most of what I removed were notes regarding the alternative methods of finding a reference. I m just going with the Kodak Q-13. I m experimenting with easier
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 2, 2008
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                          Most of what I removed were notes regarding the alternative methods
                          of finding a reference. I'm just going with the Kodak Q-13.

                          I'm experimenting with easier ways to do this and will report any
                          successes I have.

                          Paul
                          www.PaulRoark.com


                          --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mbrouphy"
                          <mbrouphy@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Paul, Do you have the lengthy version of this procedure available.
                          I
                          > read and reread the procedure and started working on it using our
                          Epson
                          > 636 oldie but goodie. Incorporating the changes somewhere along
                          the
                          > line snowed me. I guess it's a senior moment but I could use some
                          more
                          > detailed description of the whole workflow.
                          >
                          > Thanks, Mike
                          >
                          > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
                          > <pr_roark@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Mike,
                          > >
                          > > >...I'm ready to go from scanner
                          > > > calibration all the way through ink mixing and print testing.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > There is a shortened and slightly revised version of my notes on
                          > using
                          > > a flatbed scanner for ICCs at
                          > > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Making_B-W_ICCs.pdf
                          > >
                          > > Paul
                          > > www.PaulRoark.com
                          > >
                          >
                        • Roger
                          ... I bought a 9600 cart. I didn t have much luck getting ink out of it using a modified bottom fill adapter and syringe with needle tip- I was getting far
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 7, 2008
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                            > > would an Epson OEM ultrachrome yellow sucked out of a
                            > > cart like for the 3800 work?
                            >
                            > I used 7600 carts for my Epson color inks. An MIS bottom fill
                            > adapter with the end cut to 7 mm works well. See
                            > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Mod_Bot_Fill.jpg You'll note I went
                            > to Epson K2 LM in the later toned workflows. The MIS cyan is good.
                            >
                            > Paul
                            > www.PaulRoark.com
                            >

                            I bought a 9600 cart. I didn't have much luck getting ink out of it
                            using a modified bottom fill adapter and syringe with needle tip- I
                            was getting far too much air with the ink and ink was dribbling out
                            the bottom.

                            I tried using the fill syringe from this set:
                            http://www.inksupply.com/epson_oem_refill_kit.cfm

                            It fit perfectly into the 9600 cart and it was easy to draw out just
                            the ink. If you are using Epson Ultrachrome ink in small format
                            printers I definitely recommend trying this approach (and you can even
                            refill your OEM carts using this refill set).
                          • Michael T. Murphy
                            Roger, Not sure exactly what you were using at first. I use a 60cc syringe with the 7mm bottom fill adapter from MIS. No needle. I bought the set of 8
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 7, 2008
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                              Roger,

                              Not sure exactly what you were using at first.

                              I use a 60cc syringe with the 7mm bottom fill adapter from MIS. No
                              needle.

                              I bought the set of 8 adapters. Part number MIS-FADP-8. They are just
                              the normal "screw on" plastic bottom fill adapter with a very short
                              piece of plastic tubing, cut at an angle.

                              No problems extracting or filling the 110ml/220ml carts.

                              Best,
                              Michael
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