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Re: anyone have working BO on 2400?

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  • toong_bo
    Hi Clayton, Actually I ve already read every word on your website, as no matter where I headed on the internet during my initial research, people were pointing
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1, 2006
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      Hi Clayton,

      Actually I've already read every word on your website, as no matter
      where I headed on the internet during my initial research, people were
      pointing that way. Thank you for providing such a valuable resource.
      Sites like yours make me love the internet. It's also your site that
      has me so curious about the BO technique.

      > The 2400 does not natively support BO printing, but it can be done
      > with QTR. However, the results are not quite as good as produced by
      > the 2200 or the R200/220. The dither pattern is coarser, but still
      > looks good for some images. It's worth a try.

      Thanks, if you find the R200 a better solution for BO, I'm wondering
      whether I should try QTR on the 2400 or just find an R200 once I'm
      abroad and keep it onhand with some Eboni ink, since these units are
      so cheap now. Of course I wouldn't be able to print as large as with
      a RIP on the 2400, though.

      > Good question. However, the ABW mode is capable of making gorgeous BW
      > prints without requiring a densitometer, special curves and complex
      > color management. So, IMO, you still have purchased the best desktop
      > printer for doing both color and BW, and should not regret your
      > purchase.

      I made prints all weekend and can surely say I don't regret the
      purchase; the color results are more than adequate for me and,
      following your article on 2400 ABW printing, I'm already getting very
      satisfying B&W prints on VFA, which is certainly a credit to the
      intelligence of the ABW driver. I'll soon be trying to get hold of
      small samples of some of the other papers you have listed in your
      Paper Chase, and will no doubt enjoy making prints with the ABW mode,
      but want to explore BO as well. I like street photography and would
      like to see how such images print with the punchiness and rawness I've
      heard attributed to the BO method.

      -James
    • toong_bo
      ... Hi Helen, thanks for the response, this is useful to know. So much experimenting to do.... -James
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1, 2006
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        > Though the ABW mode does use colour inks, if you use a RIP like QTR or
        > IJC/OPM you have complete control over which inks are used, and in
        > what quantity.

        Hi Helen, thanks for the response, this is useful to know. So much
        experimenting to do....

        -James
      • Clayton Jones
        Hello James, ... Thanks for your kind words. I m glad you have found the website helpful. ... Since you can try QTR for free for 30 days there is not much to
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1, 2006
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          Hello James,

          >Actually I've already read...

          Thanks for your kind words. I'm glad you have found the website helpful.

          >if you find the R200 a better solution for BO, I'm wondering
          >whether I should try QTR on the 2400 or just find an R200 once I'm
          >abroad and keep it onhand with some Eboni ink, since these units are
          >so cheap now. Of course I wouldn't be able to print as large as with
          >a RIP on the 2400, though.

          Since you can try QTR for free for 30 days there is not much to lose
          in giving it a try. But you're right, if you have room for a 200 or
          220 they are inexpensive, and keeping Eboni in it would allow keeping
          the Epson inks in the 2400. That's what I'm doing at present (you'll
          definitely want to use Eboni for BO). Plus having the small printer
          with Eboni allows using it in BO mode for all proof prints when
          working up a new image. It works great and saves loads on ink costs
          (plus wear and tear) not to use K3/2400 for that.

          I'm getting such good results, and with not a single clog in over nine
          months now, I've been hesitant to to put anything else in the 2400.
          The R200 is my experimenting printer, it has R2-N in it right now.
          The 2400 is more than I could have dreamed of just a few years ago:
          beautiful smooth prints, rich tonality and luminance, easy as BO with
          no RIP/curve fiddling, icc profiles, densitometers and such, and
          absolutely no clogs. It is a bit tricky to find the right ABW setting
          for a given image/paper, but it's a small price to pay for the
          benefits, and thank goodness we have such a high degree of control.

          As for fading of the color inks, I've had a test print on my
          windowsill torture test for over eight months now with no sign of
          fading, so it has already outlasted all the other inks I've tested
          that did fade. It surely won't last as long as a pure carbon BO, or
          even the MIS toned inks, as Paul's tests have shown, but neither is it
          a quick-fade weak ink. Between the Wilhelm reports, Paul's results
          and my own tests I'm satisfied with it's fade resistance.

          All together the combination of 2400/200 adds up to BW printing heaven
          for me, especially after several years of frustrating struggle. The
          biggest drawback is the expensive inks. But I'm selling prints and so
          far am operating in the black, so I'm a happy camper.


          >but want to explore BO as well. I like street photography and
          >would like to see how such images print with the punchiness and
          >rawness I've heard attributed to the BO method.

          Then you'll definitely want to try Eboni BO, it's really great for
          that kind of work. Be sure to try some Kayenta.


          Regards,
          Clayton


          Info on black and white digital printing at
          http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
        • toong_bo
          Clayton, thanks again for your advice. I think I ll order some Eboni and give it a try with QTR on the free trial, and if that doesn t work out at I can try
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 1, 2006
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            Clayton, thanks again for your advice. I think I'll order some Eboni
            and give it a try with QTR on the free trial, and if that doesn't work
            out at I can try to get an R200 or 220 and put the ink in there.

            > Plus having the small printer
            > with Eboni allows using it in BO mode for all proof prints when
            > working up a new image. It works great and saves loads on ink costs
            > (plus wear and tear) not to use K3/2400 for that.

            Sounds like a smart strategy. I'll have to keep that in mind.

            > All together the combination of 2400/200 adds up to BW printing heaven
            > for me, especially after several years of frustrating struggle. The
            > biggest drawback is the expensive inks.

            Have you considered refilling the 2400 from 4800 carts?

            I'll be sure to get hold of some Kayenta.

            -James
          • David Keenan
            ... I did a BO series on this paper using a 2200. I thought they turned out very nicely. I moved onto the 2400 though after the 2200 crapped out on me and
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 2, 2006
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              >Then you'll definitely want to try Eboni BO, it's really great for
              >that kind of work.  Be sure to try some Kayenta.

              I did a BO series on this paper using a 2200. I thought they turned out very nicely.

              I moved onto the 2400 though after the 2200 crapped out on me and couldn't happier.

              Dave.
              --
              David Keenan, ausdlk@... on 6/2/2006
            • El Estudio
              Hello James, Yesterday I tried printing with only the blacks (matte black, light black and light light black) with a 9800 Epson. I used IJC/OPM and the profile
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 2, 2006
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                Hello James,

                Yesterday I tried printing with only the blacks (matte
                black, light black and light light black) with a 9800
                Epson. I used IJC/OPM and the profile that came with
                it as a starting point. I turned the light magenta and
                light cyan channels off. The result of that is "pure
                carbon" and it has a slightly warm tone (nothing that
                bothers me).
                It works like a charm.
                If you don't like the warm tone, turn the light cyan
                and magenta channels back on and tune them to your
                taste.
                The set-up of this printer is basically the same as
                the 2400 (different head and engine maybe) so my guess
                is that you could do the same. Also, this software
                allows you to turn on and off as many channels as you
                wish.
                I hope this helps.

                Pablo


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              • toong_bo
                Pablo, thanks very much for the response. This sounds like an interesting third option for b&w printing on the 2400, something like using a dedicated
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 5, 2006
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                  Pablo, thanks very much for the response. This sounds like an
                  interesting third option for b&w printing on the 2400, something like
                  using a dedicated gray-only inkset. I'm interested in BO not so much
                  for its pure carbon aspect as for the aesthetic possibilities offered
                  by generating the tonal range through a dithering pattern, but I'll
                  keep this possibility in mind.

                  -James

                  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, El Estudio
                  <elestudio@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello James,
                  >
                  > Yesterday I tried printing with only the blacks (matte
                  > black, light black and light light black) with a 9800
                  > Epson. I used IJC/OPM and the profile that came with
                  > it as a starting point. I turned the light magenta and
                  > light cyan channels off. The result of that is "pure
                  > carbon" and it has a slightly warm tone (nothing that
                  > bothers me).
                  > It works like a charm.
                  > If you don't like the warm tone, turn the light cyan
                  > and magenta channels back on and tune them to your
                  > taste.
                  > The set-up of this printer is basically the same as
                  > the 2400 (different head and engine maybe) so my guess
                  > is that you could do the same. Also, this software
                  > allows you to turn on and off as many channels as you
                  > wish.
                  > I hope this helps.
                  >
                  > Pablo
                  >
                  >
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