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QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File

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  • Tom Husband
    Does anybody use Qimage print to file along with a QTR-Create-ICC profile? I like Qimage s interpolation and smart sharpen but can t get it to recognize the
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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      Does anybody use Qimage print to file along with a QTR-Create-ICC
      profile? I like Qimage's interpolation and smart sharpen but can't
      get it to recognize the QTR profile. The QTR profile converts the
      image to grayscale, Qimage doesn't recognize the QTR profile and
      changes the image to RGB and assigns an RGB profile. I really want to
      use Qimage and QTR but haven't used Qimage since I started making
      QTR-Create-ICC profiles. Am I missing something here? The only way I
      can figure out how to use it is to print to file in Qimage and then
      take it back into Photoshop to convert back to the QTR profile.

      Thanks,

      Tom
    • Steve Kale
      Tom I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are three outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers. But in the interim, try
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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        Tom

        I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are three
        outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers.

        But in the interim, try doing the following: in PS convert to the QTR
        profile and then ASSIGN Adobe RGB or whatever Qimage demands. Then print
        with a Same as Source (No Color Management). The first conversion will
        adjust the file numbers whereas the assignment will not and so you should ed
        up still sending the converting file numbers to the printer. I think this
        should work.

        Steve


        > From: Tom Husband <thusband@...>
        > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 14:05:06 -0000
        > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [Digital BW] QTR-Create-ICC Profiles and Qimage Print to File
        >
        > Does anybody use Qimage print to file along with a QTR-Create-ICC
        > profile? I like Qimage's interpolation and smart sharpen but can't
        > get it to recognize the QTR profile. The QTR profile converts the
        > image to grayscale, Qimage doesn't recognize the QTR profile and
        > changes the image to RGB and assigns an RGB profile. I really want to
        > use Qimage and QTR but haven't used Qimage since I started making
        > QTR-Create-ICC profiles. Am I missing something here? The only way I
        > can figure out how to use it is to print to file in Qimage and then
        > take it back into Photoshop to convert back to the QTR profile.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Tom
      • Tom Husband
        Thanks, Steve, I ll give that a try. I ll look forward to those new profiles from Roy. Tom
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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          Thanks, Steve, I'll give that a try. I'll look forward to those new
          profiles from Roy.

          Tom

          Steve Kale wrote:
          > Tom
          >
          > I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are three
          > outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers.
          >
          > But in the interim, try doing the following: in PS convert to the QTR
          > profile and then ASSIGN Adobe RGB or whatever Qimage demands. Then print
          > with a Same as Source (No Color Management). The first conversion will
          > adjust the file numbers whereas the assignment will not and so you
          > should ed
          > up still sending the converting file numbers to the printer. I think this
          > should work.
          >
          > Steve <http://www.eset.com>
        • Ernst Dinkla
          ... Convert the greyscale image to the printer profile in PS and don t use CM in Qimage is the easiest method. No need to assign AdobeRGB in my opinion. No
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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            Steve Kale wrote:
            > Tom
            >
            > I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are three
            > outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers.
            >
            > But in the interim, try doing the following: in PS convert to the QTR
            > profile and then ASSIGN Adobe RGB or whatever Qimage demands. Then print
            > with a Same as Source (No Color Management). The first conversion will
            > adjust the file numbers whereas the assignment will not and so you should ed
            > up still sending the converting file numbers to the printer. I think this
            > should work.
            >
            > Steve

            Convert the greyscale image to the printer profile in PS and
            don't use CM in Qimage is the easiest method.
            No need to assign AdobeRGB in my opinion. No need to have CM
            on either when the conversion is already done.

            The resulting RGB file will be brought back to greyscale in QTR.


            --
            Ernst Dinkla


            www.pigment-print.com
            ( unvollendet )
          • Tom Husband
            Hi Ernst, Converting to the QTR printer profile in PS and not using CM in Qimage when printing to file shows the ICC profile to be Dot Gain 20% and not the QTR
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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              Hi Ernst,

              Converting to the QTR printer profile in PS and not using CM in Qimage
              when printing to file shows the ICC profile to be Dot Gain 20% and not
              the QTR profile after Qimage gets done with it.

              Steve's suggestion doesn't seem to work either. After converting to the
              QTR profile in PS the image is grayscale and won't accept assigning an
              RGB profile like Adobe 98.

              I think the only way is to bring it back into PS after Qimage and
              convert it back to the QTR profile again.

              Thanks to both of you for your suggestions.

              Tom

              Ernst Dinkla wrote:
              > Steve Kale wrote:
              > > Tom
              > >
              > > I think Roy has a beta RGB version of the profiles whereby there are
              > three
              > > outcurves for the profiles, all set to the same numbers.
              > >
              > > But in the interim, try doing the following: in PS convert to the QTR
              > > profile and then ASSIGN Adobe RGB or whatever Qimage demands. Then print
              > > with a Same as Source (No Color Management). The first conversion will
              > > adjust the file numbers whereas the assignment will not and so you
              > should ed
              > > up still sending the converting file numbers to the printer. I think
              > this
              > > should work.
              > >
              > > Steve
              >
              > Convert the greyscale image to the printer profile in PS and
              > don't use CM in Qimage is the easiest method.
              > No need to assign AdobeRGB in my opinion. No need to have CM
              > on either when the conversion is already done.
              >
              > The resulting RGB file will be brought back to greyscale in QTR.
              >
              >
              > --
              > Ernst Dinkla
              >
              >
              > www.pigment-print.com
              > ( unvollendet )
              >
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            • Tyler Boley
              ... Did you try printing it anyway? It may behave like PS, when a file is not color managed it assumes the default if a conversion is called for at some point.
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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                --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <thusband@s...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hi Ernst,
                >
                > Converting to the QTR printer profile in PS and not using CM in Qimage
                > when printing to file shows the ICC profile to be Dot Gain 20% and not
                > the QTR profile after Qimage gets done with it.

                Did you try printing it anyway? It may behave like PS, when a file is not color managed it
                assumes the default if a conversion is called for at some point. Obviously you can't ask it
                to convert to something without something to convert "from". It's possible qimage assigns
                it something, but if no conversion takes place down the line, because you have it set for
                none, it really doesn't matter if it gets tagged somewhere.
                Badly written, hope it makes sense.
                >
                > Steve's suggestion doesn't seem to work either. After converting to the
                > QTR profile in PS the image is grayscale and won't accept assigning an
                > RGB profile like Adobe 98.

                That was predictable. You can't assign a profile or space to a file that is not in that mode,
                or same number of channels.
                >
                > I think the only way is to bring it back into PS after Qimage and
                > convert it back to the QTR profile again.

                I'd like to see qimage make a change with regard to this, the ability to output single
                channel, since many here use single channel input drivers.
                I'm not thrilled with all these mode conversions, it's potentially lossy, and ultimately
                unnecessary.

                Tyler
              • Tyler Boley
                also, do I recall getting 8 bit out from qimage after sending it 16 bit? There were a couple of reasons I dropped my testing with it and never looked back, so
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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                  also, do I recall getting 8 bit out from qimage after sending it 16 bit?
                  There were a couple of reasons I dropped my testing with it and never looked back, so I don't
                  remember everything I tried or completely learned the app.
                  Tyler
                • Steve Kale
                  Yes my mistake. I should have suggested converting to the QTR profile, assigning GG2.2 and then converting to Adobe RGB. I think that will leave the file
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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                    Yes my mistake. I should have suggested converting to the QTR profile,
                    assigning GG2.2 and then converting to Adobe RGB. I think that will leave
                    the file numbers untouched if GG2.2 is a neat subset of Adobe RGB.


                    > From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>

                    >>
                    >> Steve's suggestion doesn't seem to work either. After converting to the
                    >> QTR profile in PS the image is grayscale and won't accept assigning an
                    >> RGB profile like Adobe 98.
                    >
                    > That was predictable. You can't assign a profile or space to a file that is
                    > not in that mode,
                    > or same number of channels.
                  • Tom Husband
                    Tyler you re right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn t even notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with Qimage and BW
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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                      Tyler you're right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn't even
                      notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with
                      Qimage and BW printing for me to continue to fool with it. That's too
                      bad I've been a fan for years.

                      Thanks,

                      Tom

                      Tyler Boley wrote:
                      > also, do I recall getting 8 bit out from qimage after sending it 16 bit?
                      > There were a couple of reasons I dropped my testing with it and never
                      > looked back, so I don't
                      > remember everything I tried or completely learned the app.
                      > Tyler
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
                      > resources as they are often being updated.
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                    • Tyler Boley
                      It seems pretty cool though, I think it depends on your overall needs. For example, if you are using a driver that makes no use of 16 bit on input, or just
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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                        It seems pretty cool though, I think it depends on your overall needs. For example, if you
                        are using a driver that makes no use of 16 bit on input, or just converts it to 8 there
                        anyway, this issue alone would not rule it out.
                        My setup take grayscale 16 in, and I take pains to edit and prep files with as little
                        converting back and forth as possible. I was very interested in it's re-sizing and
                        sharpening features, but given that my files cam out the other end in 8 bit RGB, for me
                        that was enough to move on. But if you are using the Epson driver, it may be great. As far
                        as we know, it just loves to eat 8 bit RGB.
                        Tyler

                        --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband <thusband@s...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Tyler you're right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn't even
                        > notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with
                        > Qimage and BW printing for me to continue to fool with it. That's too
                        > bad I've been a fan for years.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Tom
                      • Tom Husband
                        I want to use Qimage for is its re-sizing and sharpening features too. I want to use its print to file feature and then actually print through QTR. I wish the
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 1, 2006
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                          I want to use Qimage for is its re-sizing and sharpening features too. I
                          want to use its print to file feature and then actually print through
                          QTR. I wish the author could be convinced to modify the program. It has
                          been attempted over in the Qimage group but to no avail.

                          Tom

                          Tyler Boley wrote:
                          > It seems pretty cool though, I think it depends on your overall needs.
                          > For example, if you
                          > are using a driver that makes no use of 16 bit on input, or just
                          > converts it to 8 there
                          > anyway, this issue alone would not rule it out.
                          > My setup take grayscale 16 in, and I take pains to edit and prep files
                          > with as little
                          > converting back and forth as possible. I was very interested in it's
                          > re-sizing and
                          > sharpening features, but given that my files cam out the other end in
                          > 8 bit RGB, for me
                          > that was enough to move on. But if you are using the Epson driver, it
                          > may be great. As far
                          > as we know, it just loves to eat 8 bit RGB.
                          > Tyler
                          >
                          > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Husband
                          > <thusband@s...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Tyler you're right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn't even
                          > > notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with
                          > > Qimage and BW printing for me to continue to fool with it. That's too
                          > > bad I've been a fan for years.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks,
                          > >
                          > > Tom
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
                          > resources as they are often being updated.
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                        • Ernst Dinkla
                          ... Tom, Much of the workflow with Qimage would become easier if QTR behaved more like a Windows printer driver. That isn t criticism on what Roy has done.
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 2, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Tom Husband wrote:
                            > Tyler you're right. I was so concerned about the profile I didn't even
                            > notice that the image is converted to 8 bit. Way too many issues with
                            > Qimage and BW printing for me to continue to fool with it. That's too
                            > bad I've been a fan for years.
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Tom

                            Tom,

                            Much of the workflow with Qimage would become easier if QTR
                            behaved more like a Windows printer driver. That isn't
                            criticism on what Roy has done. Qimage is very Windows
                            API/printer driver directed so another driver type makes it
                            more difficult. Sizes to print to, native resolution etc would
                            all be taken care of by Qimage if QTR was just a Windows
                            driver. But we are lucky for other reasons that it isn't just a
                            Windows driver.
                            .

                            In my PS CS1 setup I have the color management
                            settings/preferences for grayscale set to QTR Gray Lab and
                            color to AdobeRGB. No Gamma 2.2 or Dotgain 20% that you may
                            have in the settings and that could be interfering in the
                            assigning. When I convert a grayscale in QTR Gray Lab to the
                            printer profile QTR Gray Matte Paper the data in the grayscale
                            will change accordingly and the printer profile will be
                            assigned. That there is a printer profile assigned isn't of
                            importance, the data has been changed for QTR already. There's
                            no other color management after that done by Qimage (with CM
                            off) or QTR (has no CM). I believe even the RGB file that
                            Qimage makes (in Print to File) and that goes to QTR still has
                            that printer profile assigned (can't check that as it is on
                            the printer server that is off right now). In fact that is an
                            inappropriate profile for that RGB file but it doesn't matter
                            as no CM will work and notice it. After QTR the file is
                            deleted anyway.

                            My files are 16 bit in PS but they become 8 bit along that
                            path. As far as I know QTR is taking in 8 bit uses LUTs of 16
                            bit at some stage and sends 2-3? bit per ink channel or
                            something like that.

                            Gutenprint is at 16 bit throughout till it splits on the channels.

                            --
                            Ernst Dinkla


                            www.pigment-print.com
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