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Re: Cream based archival paper

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  • Louis Dina
    Moab Entrada Natural is also another paper option. It is coated on both sides, has a good gamut, no optical brighteners, and has a nice natural warm base
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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      Moab Entrada Natural is also another paper option. It is coated on
      both sides, has a good gamut, no optical brighteners, and has a nice
      natural warm base color. Good price too. Available from
      www.lexjet.com and other online vendors.

      Lou

      --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Phill Potter"
      <phillpotter@r...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Is there a paper compatible with the Epson 2200 that has the same
      archival properties as
      > Epson's heavyweight matte, but has a cream base? I would like a paper
      to use for portraits
      > that is not so cold.
      > I notice in the archives the mention of cream based papers, but I'm
      not confident in their
      > archival qualities. Maybe I've overlooked something.
    • Diana York~Hawk Mtn Papers
      We just introduced Condor Natural (no OBAs, coated both sides, 22 mil, 325 GSM, 100% cotton) and Merlin Natural (no OBAs, coated both sides, 17 mil, 275 GSM,
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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        We just introduced Condor Natural (no OBAs, coated both sides, 22 mil, 325 GSM, 100% cotton) and Merlin Natural (no OBAs, coated both sides, 17 mil, 275 GSM, 100% cotton). I also have Merlin Natural as a 15 mil coated one side paper. And we have Nighthawk (no OBAs, 500GSM, 40 mil 100% cotton paper). All have slightly creamy coloration (not bright white) and work very well with UC inks.
        We Soar Above The Rest

        Diana York Hawk Mountain Papers
        314 Ziegler Rd
        Leesport PA 19533
        diana@...
        IM: HawkMtnPapers
        www.hawkmtnartpapers.com tel:
        fax: 888-807-2248
        610-926-4527




        Add me to your address book... Want a signature like this?


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Phill Potter
        To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:41 PM
        Subject: [Digital BW] Cream based archival paper

        Is there a paper compatible with the Epson 2200 that has the same archival properties as
        Epson's heavyweight matte, but has a cream base? I would like a paper to use for portraits
        that is not so cold.
        I notice in the archives the mention of cream based papers, but I'm not confident in their
        archival qualities. Maybe I've overlooked something.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tyler Boley
        ... wrote: ... natural surface ... Legion paper ... John, I agree Concorde Rag makes for lovely warm prints. I used to use iy a lot. It
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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          --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
          <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
          ...
          > Personally I've had good results with Hahnemuhle William Turner for
          natural surface
          > that is textured but sharp, and Concorde Rag, a French paper sold by
          Legion paper
          > co in the US.

          John, I agree Concorde Rag makes for lovely warm prints. I used to use
          iy a lot. It probably has the warmest base of the papers mentioned so far.
          But I would be very careful of it's use. Many testing it long ago
          found that the base bleached reletively quickly, and for some reason
          image longevity was poor with the 1st generation of quad inks.
          Too bad, lovely stuff.
          Tyler
        • dfaprinting
          According to inkjetart, the Concord will only be sold in roll form now. It is one of the few that I would rate as cream colored. The Innova (fine papers!)
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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            According to inkjetart, the Concord will only be sold in roll form now.
            It is one of the few that I would rate as "cream" colored. The Innova
            (fine papers!) and Hahnemuhle GE, I would consider natural white, Photo
            Rag as a "bright" whit, same for the Turner. For a similar texture to
            GE, Intelicoat textured fine art paper is almost an exact match. I just
            received my sample roll a couple of days ago, but have'nt had a chance
            to print on it yet. Hahnemuhle, Innova, and Intelicoat papers from
            Shades of Paper,ask Jim what he might suggest. Another idea would be to
            get the Hawk Mountain paper swatch book, and see if there is anything
            you like, I have that coming, along with recommended papers from Diana.
            Moab, and Red River also have a paper or two that you might like. And
            for one more... Try Epson Water Color Radiant White.
          • Mike Gerra
            I ve read some very good, independent reviews of these papers, as well as Condor Brite. I m interested in printing BW scenics on my Epson 1160 with MIS BW
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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              I've read some very good, independent reviews of these papers,
              as well as Condor Brite. I'm interested in printing BW scenics on my
              Epson 1160 with MIS BW Quadtones. Am I grasping at straws hoping that
              you might have some profiles? Thanks.


              --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Diana York~Hawk
              Mtn Papers" <diana@h...> wrote:
              > We just introduced Condor Natural (no OBAs, coated both sides, 22
              mil, 325 GSM, 100% cotton) and Merlin Natural (no OBAs, coated both
              sides, 17 mil, 275 GSM, 100% cotton). I also have Merlin Natural as a
              15 mil coated one side paper. And we have Nighthawk (no OBAs, 500GSM,
              40 mil 100% cotton paper). All have slightly creamy coloration (not
              bright white) and work very well with UC inks.
              > We Soar Above The Rest
              >
              > Diana York Hawk Mountain Papers
              > 314 Ziegler Rd
              > Leesport PA 19533
              > diana@h...
              > IM: HawkMtnPapers
              > www.hawkmtnartpapers.com tel:
              > fax: 888-807-2248
              > 610-926-4527
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Add me to your address book... Want a signature like
              this?
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Phill Potter
              > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:41 PM
              > Subject: [Digital BW] Cream based archival paper
              >
              > Is there a paper compatible with the Epson 2200 that has the same
              archival properties as
              > Epson's heavyweight matte, but has a cream base? I would like a
              paper to use for portraits
              > that is not so cold.
              > I notice in the archives the mention of cream based papers, but
              I'm not confident in their
              > archival qualities. Maybe I've overlooked something.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • john dean
              Tyler, That is very good to know about Concorde Rag . Wilhelm did some excelerated tests years ago with Concorde Rag and the Roland Hi Fi Jet pigment inks and
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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                Tyler,

                That is very good to know about Concorde Rag . Wilhelm did some excelerated
                tests years ago with Concorde Rag and the Roland Hi Fi Jet pigment inks and
                reached a 150 year mark ( for what that is worth) without any spraying. I always
                spray my CR prints with Premier Art. But I have to tell you I don't use it much
                anymore because I was afraid of some rumors that I have also heard. I know Jon
                Cone who said he loved the look of the paper too admitted that on his north wall test
                it did the poorest with his pt inkset. That alone worried me. There are also other
                papers sold as Concorde Rag, like that roll version, that are a completely different
                paper than the sheets I have used. I suspect this is what Wilhelm tested for the
                Roland company. But it is not any warmer than Hahnemuhle.

                I asked Jim Doyle last week if sees an extremely stable very warm paper coming on
                the scene anytime soon. To me this is a weak link it what we have available to us.
                He said the new natural surface Innova media are going to be useful in this area of
                warm prints. I'd like something truely warm other than Concorde. Hope it happens.

                You know there is one other option which I have only done once. That is to lay down
                a very light warm tint of ink over the whole surface of the print. Let that dry and print
                on top of that. This is the kind of thing they used to do in offset printing and it works.
                But what a pain.

                John



                > John, I agree Concorde Rag makes for lovely warm prints. I used to use
                > iy a lot. It probably has the warmest base of the papers mentioned so far.
                > But I would be very careful of it's use. Many testing it long ago
                > found that the base bleached reletively quickly, and for some reason
                > image longevity was poor with the 1st generation of quad inks.
                > Too bad, lovely stuff.
                > Tyler
              • Tyler Boley
                ... excelerated ... inks and ... For what it s worth being the operative there. He also gave Lyson quads very high marks. Real world user tests conflicted
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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                  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean"
                  <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tyler,
                  >
                  > That is very good to know about Concorde Rag . Wilhelm did some
                  excelerated
                  > tests years ago with Concorde Rag and the Roland Hi Fi Jet pigment
                  inks and
                  > reached a 150 year mark ( for what that is worth) without any spraying.

                  "For what it's worth" being the operative there. He also gave Lyson
                  quads very high marks. Real world user tests conflicted with his
                  results for both.
                  I too wish there was something as pretty as CR, with good longevity
                  and performance. I suspect the warmth of CR was some sort of addative,
                  which would account for it's bleaching.
                  Tyler
                • Phill Potter
                  Thanks to all for the advice on cream based papers. I have some leads to follow up. Archival qualities are a very high priority. This should narrow the list
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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                    Thanks to all for the advice on cream based papers. I have some leads
                    to follow up. Archival qualities are a very high priority. This should
                    narrow the list down somewhat.

                    Phill
                  • Edwin Nazarian
                    I am another fan of Legion Concorde Rag. It is my favorite paper in fact. I use it with MIS UT/1160 and previously used it with Cone Piezography BW with
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
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                      I am another fan of Legion Concorde Rag. It is my favorite paper in
                      fact. I use it with MIS UT/1160 and previously used it with Cone
                      Piezography BW with 1160. Both made excellent prints.

                      I must warn you about the Concorde Rag on roll however (as did another
                      contributor). I did order it one time about 3 years ago and was very
                      disappointed with it. The surface is not the same as the sheet! It
                      does not take ink as well and it is not as smooth. Luckily the vendor
                      took it back when I complained over and over that they were not the
                      same paper.

                      Does anyone know if this has changed? Whether the roll has improved
                      in quality and whether it is closer to the sheet now?

                      Also, does anyone know of a replacement for the sheet form? Have you
                      had experience with anything similar?

                      Edwin
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