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[Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Glossy & Epson UT cyan mix

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  • colingruk
    ... with the 1160 ... In message 29094 you wrote
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 1, 2003
      --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
      <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
      > Colin,
      >

      >
      > I did?
      >... In response to my statement "You warned me off the Ultratones
      with the 1160 ..."

      In message 29094 you wrote <<The 1290 will print smoother than an
      1160. Part of this improvement is the
      lack of any dots in the highlights from the toner. Part of the
      improvement
      is smoother shadow tones.>> It's the smoother shadow tones that I am
      interested in for figure studies.

      Colin
    • Paul Roark
      Colin,
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 1, 2003
        Colin,

        <<The 1290 will print smoother than an
        1160. Part of this improvement is the
        lack of any dots in the highlights from the toner.
        Part of the improvement is smoother shadow tones.>>

        > It's the smoother shadow tones that I am interested in for figure studies.

        The 1290 may still be smoother than the 1160 in the shadows due to it being
        a more modern printer, but with Ultra Tone inks and the new 1160 curves, it
        could be the other way around. The comparison above was before the new
        curves and UT inks. Not having seen a 1290 UT output, I can't say how good
        that combination will be.

        It is true that the old 1160 curves with the Eboni, Museum, or the Epson UC
        matte black (the high-load matte black inks) showed more roughness than the
        old vm K. This in combination with the 1160's older design made for some
        rough shadow tones. However, with the new curves I was able to push the
        black starting point so low that the problem disappeared on the 1160. I
        also pushed the cyan (dark gray ink) starting point way down, so the dots in
        the highlights were greatly reduced or eliminated for most viewers.

        I'm not certain how the 1290 will print with the UT inks, but the new 1280
        curves are very similar to the 1290 curves, and the 1280 with these new
        curves and UT ink is very smooth, slightly better than the 1160 with it's
        new curves.

        Paul
        http://www.PaulRoark.com
      • colingruk
        ... studies. ... it being ... curves, it ... new ... how good ... Epson UC ... than the ... some ... push the ... 1160. I ... the dots in ... new 1280 ... new
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
          --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
          <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
          > Colin,
          >
          > <<The 1290 will print smoother than an
          > 1160. Part of this improvement is the
          > lack of any dots in the highlights from the toner.
          > Part of the improvement is smoother shadow tones.>>
          >
          > > It's the smoother shadow tones that I am interested in for figure
          studies.
          >
          > The 1290 may still be smoother than the 1160 in the shadows due to
          it being
          > a more modern printer, but with Ultra Tone inks and the new 1160
          curves, it
          > could be the other way around. The comparison above was before the
          new
          > curves and UT inks. Not having seen a 1290 UT output, I can't say
          how good
          > that combination will be.
          >
          > It is true that the old 1160 curves with the Eboni, Museum, or the
          Epson UC
          > matte black (the high-load matte black inks) showed more roughness
          than the
          > old vm K. This in combination with the 1160's older design made for
          some
          > rough shadow tones. However, with the new curves I was able to
          push the
          > black starting point so low that the problem disappeared on the
          1160. I
          > also pushed the cyan (dark gray ink) starting point way down, so
          the dots in
          > the highlights were greatly reduced or eliminated for most viewers.
          >
          > I'm not certain how the 1290 will print with the UT inks, but the
          new 1280
          > curves are very similar to the 1290 curves, and the 1280 with these
          new
          > curves and UT ink is very smooth, slightly better than the 1160
          with it's
          > new curves.



          Your comments in post 29094 were on 14 April and you also wrote: "if
          I can find time to improve the 1160 curves some of the differences
          can be minimized, but some quality differences will still be visible
          to perfectionists."

          Your latest curves were posted on 8 May by Martin when I was in the
          US, and not on quite the spending spree that I thought I would be
          because I forewent the Ultratone option. Am I correct in assuming
          that these posted new curves were developed after you expressed your
          concerns over smoothness in the shadows on an 1160?

          If I am going to order for my (spare) 1160, I might as well go for a
          CFS: from your earlier post I had discarded this option and am still
          wondering if I should buy a 1290 for black and white ultratones
          only. Two questions arise: any idea when the caveat emptor will be
          lifted by MIS on the ultratones and, second, could I not buy a 6 line
          CFS and use it on the 1160 with two black lines (Pk and Ebony), the
          three colours and one redundant, placing the second black cart not
          being used on the ledge in a cradle? Or is refilling cartridges the
          way to go?

          Colin
        • Tim Atherton
          One of the paper rollers on my 1160 - part of the long line that sits just behind the print head as it moves back and forth - seems to have taken to sticking
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
            One of the paper rollers on my 1160 - part of the long line that sits just
            behind the print head as it moves back and forth - seems to have taken to
            sticking out ever so slightly more than the rest.

            When it does this it seems to catch the print head very slightly and attract
            some ink which it then deposits via the roller on the paper...

            any ideas of a fix to get it to sit "back in line"?

            tim
          • Paul Roark
            Colin, ... Yes, I found the time to re-write the 1160 curves to cure the shadow roughness problem. On matte paper it looks as smooth as the hextone printers.
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
              Colin,

              >...
              >Your latest curves were posted on 8 May ... Am I correct in assuming
              >that these posted new curves were developed after you expressed your
              >concerns over smoothness in the shadows on an 1160?

              Yes, I found the time to re-write the 1160 curves to cure the shadow
              roughness problem. On matte paper it looks as smooth as the hextone
              printers. On Pictorico transparency film the 1280 advantage is still
              clearly there. However, this transparency film shows every minute artifact,
              and on close examination, I doubt any printer can be perfect on it.

              >... any idea when the caveat emptor will be lifted by MIS on the ultratones

              No. I have not seen any defects that I think warrant special care except
              for printers that have had dye in them. Fortunately, washing the parking
              pad seemed to cure the clogs on my 1280. Once I rinsed it thoroughly with
              Windex and also wiped the head with a Windex-soaked paper towel, the clogs
              disappeared.

              > could I not buy a 6 line CFS and use it on the 1160 with
              >two black lines (Pk and Ebony), the
              >three colours and one redundant, placing the second black cart not
              >being used on the ledge in a cradle? ...

              That is an interesting idea. Why don't you run it by MIS and see if they
              have or will give it a try.

              I once had separate lines for my 1160 CIS, and found that only 3 lines made
              the CIS tubes rather unpredictably floppy. I was afraid of them getting
              caught on parts of the printer. I used tape to put the black line back on,
              but it was never the same. Maybe MIS could figure out a way to stabilize
              the tubes. I also hear that the MIS tubes may be a different material that
              react more predictably. I just don't know.

              So, I guess what I'm saying is that you might save yourself a potential
              headache if MIS did some experimenting first. I think they have an interest
              in figuring out an efficient way to switch black inks, and they know the
              field so well that they may be able to find clips or other accessories that
              would make the system work.

              Paul
              http://www.PaulRoark.com
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