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Re: [diggers350] lighter later campaign

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  • Simon Fairlie
    This campaign is ridiculous and is based on an erroneous post-modern assumption that time is a human construction and adjustable, This is not so. Midday is
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 1 4:00 PM
      This campaign is ridiculous and is based on an erroneous post-modern assumption that time is a human construction and adjustable, This is not so. Midday is when the sun reaches the apex of  its journey around our sky  and it occurs at a certain moment of the day in every place in the world. It makes sense to approxiate this to the nearest hour, which in our case is  Greenwch Meantime. It doesn;t make any sense at all to tinker with that and say that midday by the clock is 11 o clock by the sun, it just causes confusion.

      For exam[le France, whose nearest hourly approximate is Greenwich meantime is aready one hour ahead of what it shpuld be, whioch means that it is (newraly)  two hours ahead when it goes over to summer time. The result is that vine workers in the Sout hof France go out to wotrk at 8 am clock time (which by the sun is 6 am) and finissh the morning's work at "midday" which is in fact 10 am by the sun. They then have lunch, and a siesta for two hours (in order to avpid the worst of the heat)  and go out to work in the afternoon at 2 pm  by the clock, which by the sun is midday the hottest part of the day. I did this for 10 years and belive me,  its  completey insane.

      Tinkering with the clocks is a way of marginalizing people's relationship with the sun.  If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier, don't try and pretend that you can alter the rhythm of of the sun. 
      This email was sent atmidnoght, which seems a bit late, but thankfully  it's on;y 11 pm.

      Cheers

      Simon 


      Simon Fairlie
      Monkton Wyld Court
      Charmouth
      Bridport
      Dorset
      DT6 6DQ
      01297 561359

      On 30 Mar 2010, at 13:58, Andrew Pratt wrote:



      Please let people know about this campaign to switch the clocks forward to get more people outside, save carbon emissions etc - the way we currently live I think it makes sense
      Cheers
       
      http://www.lighterlater.org/


      With thanks Andrew Pratt 07980 602088




      Do you want a Hotmail account? Sign-up now - Free 


    • vapid ness
      Thanks Simon, Not only did you save me from having to say all of this, you did it better than I would have, too. If people want to see more of the sun, they
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 1 11:54 PM
        Thanks Simon,

        Not only did you save me from having to say all of this, you did it better than I would have, too.

        If people want to see more of the sun, they can get up earlier instead of staying up, for goodness' sake.

        In perplexity,

        Carol.

        On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Simon Fairlie <chapter7@...> wrote:
         

        This campaign is ridiculous and is based on an erroneous post-modern assumption that time is a human construction and adjustable, This is not so. Midday is when the sun reaches the apex of  its journey around our sky  and it occurs at a certain moment of the day in every place in the world. It makes sense to approxiate this to the nearest hour, which in our case is  Greenwch Meantime. It doesn;t make any sense at all to tinker with that and say that midday by the clock is 11 o clock by the sun, it just causes confusion.


        For exam[le France, whose nearest hourly approximate is Greenwich meantime is aready one hour ahead of what it shpuld be, whioch means that it is (newraly)  two hours ahead when it goes over to summer time. The result is that vine workers in the Sout hof France go out to wotrk at 8 am clock time (which by the sun is 6 am) and finissh the morning's work at "midday" which is in fact 10 am by the sun. They then have lunch, and a siesta for two hours (in order to avpid the worst of the heat)  and go out to work in the afternoon at 2 pm  by the clock, which by the sun is midday the hottest part of the day. I did this for 10 years and belive me,  its  completey insane.

        Tinkering with the clocks is a way of marginalizing people's relationship with the sun.  If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier, don't try and pretend that you can alter the rhythm of of the sun. 
        This email was sent atmidnoght, which seems a bit late, but thankfully  it's on;y 11 pm.

        Cheers

        Simon 


        Simon Fairlie
        Monkton Wyld Court
        Charmouth
        Bridport
        Dorset
        DT6 6DQ
        01297 561359

        On 30 Mar 2010, at 13:58, Andrew Pratt wrote:



        Please let people know about this campaign to switch the clocks forward to get more people outside, save carbon emissions etc - the way we currently live I think it makes sense
        Cheers
         
        http://www.lighterlater.org/


        With thanks Andrew Pratt 07980 602088




        Do you want a Hotmail account? Sign-up now - Free 



      • Dan Olner
        If the daylight doesn t work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier. Except that most people can t just adjust their working time in the way
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 2 1:25 AM
          "If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier."

          Except that most people can't just adjust their working time in the way you suggest. You might not like that, but it's the reality for the vast majority of people in the UK. If you are able to shift your own life rhythms around, then that's great - but you're a tiny, lucky minority.

          So, e.g. the carbon savings that can come from optimising the "position of sun/what it says on my clock" relationship are very real.

          Dan
          ________________________________
          From: diggers350@yahoogroups.com [diggers350@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Fairlie [chapter7@...]
          Sent: 02 April 2010 00:00
          To: Andrew Pratt
          Cc: diggers350@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [diggers350] lighter later campaign



          This campaign is ridiculous and is based on an erroneous post-modern assumption that time is a human construction and adjustable, This is not so. Midday is when the sun reaches the apex of its journey around our sky and it occurs at a certain moment of the day in every place in the world. It makes sense to approxiate this to the nearest hour, which in our case is Greenwch Meantime. It doesn;t make any sense at all to tinker with that and say that midday by the clock is 11 o clock by the sun, it just causes confusion.

          For exam[le France, whose nearest hourly approximate is Greenwich meantime is aready one hour ahead of what it shpuld be, whioch means that it is (newraly) two hours ahead when it goes over to summer time. The result is that vine workers in the Sout hof France go out to wotrk at 8 am clock time (which by the sun is 6 am) and finissh the morning's work at "midday" which is in fact 10 am by the sun. They then have lunch, and a siesta for two hours (in order to avpid the worst of the heat) and go out to work in the afternoon at 2 pm by the clock, which by the sun is midday the hottest part of the day. I did this for 10 years and belive me, its completey insane.

          Tinkering with the clocks is a way of marginalizing people's relationship with the sun. If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier, don't try and pretend that you can alter the rhythm of of the sun.
          This email was sent atmidnoght, which seems a bit late, but thankfully it's on;y 11 pm.

          Cheers

          Simon


          Simon Fairlie
          Monkton Wyld Court
          Charmouth
          Bridport
          Dorset
          DT6 6DQ
          01297 561359
          chapter7@...<mailto:chapter7@...>

          On 30 Mar 2010, at 13:58, Andrew Pratt wrote:



          Please let people know about this campaign to switch the clocks forward to get more people outside, save carbon emissions etc - the way we currently live I think it makes sense
          Cheers

          http://www.lighterlater.org/


          With thanks Andrew Pratt 07980 602088



          ________________________________
          Do you want a Hotmail account? Sign-up now - Free<http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/>
        • Simon Fairlie
          Why can t people adjust? In France, school starts at eight o clock, shops open at eight and most people start work at eight. In the UK everything starts at
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 2 2:58 PM
            Why can't people adjust? In France, school starts at eight o clock, shops open at eight and most people start work at eight.  In the UK everything starts at nine. The government runs most of the schools in this country, if it wants people to get up earlier, it simply has to start school classes at eight and open government offices at eight, and (with the help of an advertising campaign), everyone else will follow suit. 

            The alternative, of pretending that midday is at 11 am or even 10 am,  is a demeaning and confusing deceit, which shows how divorced most people are from natural diurnal rhythms. . The habit of changing to British summertime  also explains the complete absence of sundials in the modern built environment, which is sad because sundials not only tell the time, but also help to explain how time works,

            Incidentally  I have heard that in medieval Italy an hour was a not a defined length of time, but a division of the sun's arc, so that there were always 12 hours in a day,  winter and summer. An hour in winter only lasted what we now call 40 minutes, whereas in summer an hour lasted about 90 minutes. Am I right in thinking that this made the construction of sundials very easy? Does anyone else know anything about this system,  or can point me towards someone who has written about it?

            Apologies for the typos in the previous message. It must have been very late, I'm confused.

            Simon 



            On 2 Apr 2010, at 09:25, Dan Olner wrote:

            "If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier."

            Except that most people can't just adjust their working time in the way you suggest. You might not like that, but it's the reality for the vast majority of people in the UK. If you are able to shift your own life rhythms around, then that's great - but you're a tiny, lucky minority.

            So, e.g. the carbon savings that can come from optimising the "position of sun/what it says on my clock" relationship are very real.

            Dan
            ________________________________
            Sent: 02 April 2010 00:00
            To: Andrew Pratt
            Subject: Re: [diggers350] lighter later campaign



            This campaign is ridiculous and is based on an erroneous post-modern assumption that time is a human construction and adjustable, This is not so. Midday is when the sun reaches the apex of  its journey around our sky  and it occurs at a certain moment of the day in every place in the world. It makes sense to approxiate this to the nearest hour, which in our case is  Greenwch Meantime. It doesn;t make any sense at all to tinker with that and say that midday by the clock is 11 o clock by the sun, it just causes confusion.

            For exam[le France, whose nearest hourly approximate is Greenwich meantime is aready one hour ahead of what it shpuld be, whioch means that it is (newraly)  two hours ahead when it goes over to summer time. The result is that vine workers in the Sout hof France go out to wotrk at 8 am clock time (which by the sun is 6 am) and finissh the morning's work at "midday" which is in fact 10 am by the sun. They then have lunch, and a siesta for two hours (in order to avpid the worst of the heat)  and go out to work in the afternoon at 2 pm  by the clock, which by the sun is midday the hottest part of the day. I did this for 10 years and belive me,  its  completey insane.

            Tinkering with the clocks is a way of marginalizing people's relationship with the sun.  If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier, don't try and pretend that you can alter the rhythm of of the sun.
            This email was sent atmidnoght, which seems a bit late, but thankfully  it's on;y 11 pm.

            Cheers

            Simon


            Simon Fairlie
            Monkton Wyld Court
            Charmouth
            Bridport
            Dorset
            DT6 6DQ
            01297 561359
            chapter7@...<mailto:chapter7@...>

            On 30 Mar 2010, at 13:58, Andrew Pratt wrote:



            Please let people know about this campaign to switch the clocks forward to get more people outside, save carbon emissions etc - the way we currently live I think it makes sense
            Cheers



            With thanks Andrew Pratt 07980 602088



            ________________________________
            Do you want a Hotmail account? Sign-up now - Free<http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/>




          • vapid ness
            Also, even if you are in a 9-5 job or a student, you don t have to organise your day so that you get up and then head out as soon as you re ready. I used to
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 2 3:47 PM
              Also, even if you are in a 9-5 job or a student, you don't have to organise your day so that you get up and then head out as soon as you're ready.  I used to get up at 4.45 and do all my general pottering and have a bit chill, and then head out to get in to Uni for 9 on most days.  Right enough, a lot of the reason for this was so that I could get stuff organised for the kids and get some time to myself before they got up, but it worked fine. 

              I suspect that  the lighter later campaign will be higher amongst folk who spend a lot of time socialising in the evening- and especially amongst people who spend time and money on entertainment which is geared up for punters in the evening.    You quite often see the same folk in parks and the like in the morning- there's no reason why people couldn't get together for a while in the morning instead of the evening, and since the entertainment industry isn't set up, anything folk do together in the mornings would be more likely to involve less spending and quite possibly be more convivial. 

              Spending time with friends in the morning could also be seen as an alternative cultural statement for folk who like that kind of thing.  I honestly think that an alternative culture campaign like this one would be better reclaiming the morning rather than fiddling with the clock hands.

              Cheers,

              Carol.

              On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Simon Fairlie <chapter7@...> wrote:
               

              Why can't people adjust? In France, school starts at eight o clock, shops open at eight and most people start work at eight.  In the UK everything starts at nine. The government runs most of the schools in this country, if it wants people to get up earlier, it simply has to start school classes at eight and open government offices at eight, and (with the help of an advertising campaign), everyone else will follow suit. 


              The alternative, of pretending that midday is at 11 am or even 10 am,  is a demeaning and confusing deceit, which shows how divorced most people are from natural diurnal rhythms. . The habit of changing to British summertime  also explains the complete absence of sundials in the modern built environment, which is sad because sundials not only tell the time, but also help to explain how time works,

              Incidentally  I have heard that in medieval Italy an hour was a not a defined length of time, but a division of the sun's arc, so that there were always 12 hours in a day,  winter and summer. An hour in winter only lasted what we now call 40 minutes, whereas in summer an hour lasted about 90 minutes. Am I right in thinking that this made the construction of sundials very easy? Does anyone else know anything about this system,  or can point me towards someone who has written about it?

              Apologies for the typos in the previous message. It must have been very late, I'm confused.

              Simon 



              On 2 Apr 2010, at 09:25, Dan Olner wrote:

              "If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier."

              Except that most people can't just adjust their working time in the way you suggest. You might not like that, but it's the reality for the vast majority of people in the UK. If you are able to shift your own life rhythms around, then that's great - but you're a tiny, lucky minority.

              So, e.g. the carbon savings that can come from optimising the "position of sun/what it says on my clock" relationship are very real.

              Dan
              ________________________________
              Sent: 02 April 2010 00:00
              To: Andrew Pratt
              Subject: Re: [diggers350] lighter later campaign



              This campaign is ridiculous and is based on an erroneous post-modern assumption that time is a human construction and adjustable, This is not so. Midday is when the sun reaches the apex of  its journey around our sky  and it occurs at a certain moment of the day in every place in the world. It makes sense to approxiate this to the nearest hour, which in our case is  Greenwch Meantime. It doesn;t make any sense at all to tinker with that and say that midday by the clock is 11 o clock by the sun, it just causes confusion.

              For exam[le France, whose nearest hourly approximate is Greenwich meantime is aready one hour ahead of what it shpuld be, whioch means that it is (newraly)  two hours ahead when it goes over to summer time. The result is that vine workers in the Sout hof France go out to wotrk at 8 am clock time (which by the sun is 6 am) and finissh the morning's work at "midday" which is in fact 10 am by the sun. They then have lunch, and a siesta for two hours (in order to avpid the worst of the heat)  and go out to work in the afternoon at 2 pm  by the clock, which by the sun is midday the hottest part of the day. I did this for 10 years and belive me,  its  completey insane.

              Tinkering with the clocks is a way of marginalizing people's relationship with the sun.  If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier, don't try and pretend that you can alter the rhythm of of the sun.
              This email was sent atmidnoght, which seems a bit late, but thankfully  it's on;y 11 pm.

              Cheers

              Simon


              Simon Fairlie
              Monkton Wyld Court
              Charmouth
              Bridport
              Dorset
              DT6 6DQ
              01297 561359

              On 30 Mar 2010, at 13:58, Andrew Pratt wrote:



              Please let people know about this campaign to switch the clocks forward to get more people outside, save carbon emissions etc - the way we currently live I think it makes sense
              Cheers



              With thanks Andrew Pratt 07980 602088



              ________________________________
              Do you want a Hotmail account? Sign-up now - Free<http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/>





            • David Masters
              I m with Simon on this one. Admittedly, many people work from 9-5 and don t have a choice about that. There are still 16 other hours in which to sleep. Most
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 3 3:34 AM
                I'm with Simon on this one.  Admittedly, many people work from 9-5 and don't have a choice about that.  There are still 16 other hours in which to sleep.  Most people need between 8-10 hours sleep, so why not go to bed earlier and get up earlier?  (e.g. why not sleep 9.30pm - 6.00am?).

                I blame TV for keeping us up too late, rather than the 9-5 working day.

                David

                On 2 April 2010 22:58, Simon Fairlie <chapter7@...> wrote:
                 

                Why can't people adjust? In France, school starts at eight o clock, shops open at eight and most people start work at eight.  In the UK everything starts at nine. The government runs most of the schools in this country, if it wants people to get up earlier, it simply has to start school classes at eight and open government offices at eight, and (with the help of an advertising campaign), everyone else will follow suit. 


                The alternative, of pretending that midday is at 11 am or even 10 am,  is a demeaning and confusing deceit, which shows how divorced most people are from natural diurnal rhythms. . The habit of changing to British summertime  also explains the complete absence of sundials in the modern built environment, which is sad because sundials not only tell the time, but also help to explain how time works,

                Incidentally  I have heard that in medieval Italy an hour was a not a defined length of time, but a division of the sun's arc, so that there were always 12 hours in a day,  winter and summer. An hour in winter only lasted what we now call 40 minutes, whereas in summer an hour lasted about 90 minutes. Am I right in thinking that this made the construction of sundials very easy? Does anyone else know anything about this system,  or can point me towards someone who has written about it?

                Apologies for the typos in the previous message. It must have been very late, I'm confused.

                Simon 



                On 2 Apr 2010, at 09:25, Dan Olner wrote:

                "If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier."

                Except that most people can't just adjust their working time in the way you suggest. You might not like that, but it's the reality for the vast majority of people in the UK. If you are able to shift your own life rhythms around, then that's great - but you're a tiny, lucky minority.

                So, e.g. the carbon savings that can come from optimising the "position of sun/what it says on my clock" relationship are very real.

                Dan
                ________________________________
                Sent: 02 April 2010 00:00
                To: Andrew Pratt
                Subject: Re: [diggers350] lighter later campaign



                This campaign is ridiculous and is based on an erroneous post-modern assumption that time is a human construction and adjustable, This is not so. Midday is when the sun reaches the apex of  its journey around our sky  and it occurs at a certain moment of the day in every place in the world. It makes sense to approxiate this to the nearest hour, which in our case is  Greenwch Meantime. It doesn;t make any sense at all to tinker with that and say that midday by the clock is 11 o clock by the sun, it just causes confusion.

                For exam[le France, whose nearest hourly approximate is Greenwich meantime is aready one hour ahead of what it shpuld be, whioch means that it is (newraly)  two hours ahead when it goes over to summer time. The result is that vine workers in the Sout hof France go out to wotrk at 8 am clock time (which by the sun is 6 am) and finissh the morning's work at "midday" which is in fact 10 am by the sun. They then have lunch, and a siesta for two hours (in order to avpid the worst of the heat)  and go out to work in the afternoon at 2 pm  by the clock, which by the sun is midday the hottest part of the day. I did this for 10 years and belive me,  its  completey insane.

                Tinkering with the clocks is a way of marginalizing people's relationship with the sun.  If the daylight doesn't work well for ypu at the mpment , then just get up earlier, don't try and pretend that you can alter the rhythm of of the sun.
                This email was sent atmidnoght, which seems a bit late, but thankfully  it's on;y 11 pm.

                Cheers

                Simon


                Simon Fairlie
                Monkton Wyld Court
                Charmouth
                Bridport
                Dorset
                DT6 6DQ
                01297 561359

                On 30 Mar 2010, at 13:58, Andrew Pratt wrote:



                Please let people know about this campaign to switch the clocks forward to get more people outside, save carbon emissions etc - the way we currently live I think it makes sense
                Cheers



                With thanks Andrew Pratt 07980 602088



                ________________________________
                Do you want a Hotmail account? Sign-up now - Free<http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/>







                --
                http://twitter.com/davidmasters/

                "It may be that when we no longer know what to do
                we have come to our real work,
                and that when we no longer know which way to go
                we have come to our real journey.
                The mind that is not baffled is not employed.
                The impeded stream is the one that sings."
                ~ Wendell Berry


                " . . . in the last analysis all moments are key moments, and life itself is grace." ~ Frederick Buechner
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