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Fw: Re: [DickTracy] Re: Well, I am glad everyone seems to be enjoying the story so far

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  • syd2918@yahoo.com
    Aaron, the name you are looking for is Mindy Ermine - (Poisie s daughter) Mini bio on her attached - from the D.T. Encyclopedia. SYD in Trinidad ... From:
    Message 1 of 13 , May 6 3:19 PM
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    Aaron, the name you are looking for is Mindy Ermine - (Poisie's daughter) Mini bio on her attached - from the D.T. Encyclopedia.
     
     
    SYD in Trinidad 
     
     
     
     
    -------Original Message-------
     
    From: ksullet
    Date: 5/6/2013 5:04:23 AM
    Subject: Fw: Re: [DickTracy] Re: Well, I am glad everyone seems to be enjoying the story so far
     
    > Agreed it would be a bit silly if we could just clone any old villain back from the grave but I am not so sure that is what is happening here. After all, Dr. Zy Ghote, a known fraud, is in charge of the Moon Maid "re-creation" project.
    >
     
    I understand, but it still leaves a really sour taste in my mouth. Once a particular door is opened, it's hard to close, and if people can live on the Moon, then you will have people saying why not to a legitimate cloner. A similar situation happened with Jason Tood and Batman. He was 'brought back' in Hush only for it to be Clayface, but then brought back for real (presumably due to unreasonable pressure from the fnas). To what net gain though? Jason Todd is still a terrible character and the comic he has relaunched is one of the most sexist titles produced by DC. I'm not suggesting that a similar thing will happen here, but considering how many things could have been pushed forward as reasonable Moon stories, it wasn't necessary to go into Moon Maid territory to begin with. And lest you and Bill recall, the last time Zy Ghote cloned someone that clone turned out to be not a clone true. It turned out to be the genuine article. I love Mumbles, but it was a mistake for Collins to bring him back into play, and with the thinnest of methods as well. If Zy Ghote is running a con again (and I agree that there is no reason to think he isn't), then it is quite possible this is the genuine article which pretty much throws the pathos of the original death right out the window and again opens us up to bringing back more characters under the thinnest of margins. (Also, at that point, Moon Maid is obviously impervious to death, since between Gould and Curtis, she pretty much has an answer to anything anyone wants to try on her, which is fine... if this is Superman). I know it's still too early to tell, but as I've mentioned before, I'm a writer, and I know story structure, and I'm having a hard time seeing where this ends in a way that is satisfying. I still think the only option which included bringing back Moon Maid involved Poisie Ermine's daughter (whose name keeps escaping my memory, help me out guys) enacting revenge on the Plentys (Sparkle in particular). However, given the conversations between Mysta and Zy Ghote, that would seem to not be even remotely the case. That leaves us with other possibilities, none of which seem good. I don't know. Maybe Mike has thought of the miracle card that makes this all right. I guess we shall see.
     
    > It is difficult to criticize a story even as we are barely into it. Right now the story to me is all questions. The answers have not yet begun to reveal themselves and I tend to think that all of the "balls in the air" will find resolutions in this extra-length tale. I base this prediction on logic. If we have to wait until after the 3-month Moon Maid story to find out what is happening with all of these various scenarios, the pay off comes too far from the set up. Mike has also stated that any excursions into side stories during the Moon Maid arc will end up relating to the Moon Maid arc. I think that during this story, the juggler will catch most of the balls.
    >
     
    Which would be fine except some of those balls had already been set free previous to Mr. Crime to be caught and then thrown right back into freedom. So we're looking right now, minimum, at a second Stilletta story, a second Blackjack story (although to be fair, yea, because I do love Blackjack), a third Doubleup story (if we count his involvement with Mr. Crime), a fourth B.B. Eyes story, and a I've kind of lost count on Mumbles. Gould villains rarely got a second crack let alone a third or a fourth, or a Mumbles sized shot at it all. That seems a bit much, balls caught or not. Jail, last I checked, does not actually come equipped with a revolving door. And while I'd love it if I were wrong, I don't think Mr. Curtis has the guts to kill all of those characters (to be fair, I'm not sure any writer would, including myself).
     
    > As I have indicated on the board before, I am in show business. I have great respect for Shakespeare but I can tell you that every single production of Hamlet is a re-imagining of the iconic play and its characters. The same is true for every play re-produced or every movie re-made. Consequently, I am probably much more flexible about taking characters and scripts in different directions than the average Dick Tracy fan. A theme like "Crime Doesn't Pay" can be interpreted in many different ways and still convey the same meaning. A strict interpretation might equate to "Tracy always gets his man." A different and no less valid interpretation might be, "Sometimes the bad guys might win skirmishes but in the end, Tracy always gets his man." Although the first is more straight forward, the latter is often more interesting.
    >
     
    Indeed, everyone wants to make it their own for better or ill, and certainly Mike's track record to this point is still more good than bad. I'm not adverse to a bad guy escaping to face justice at a later date, but it's a trick Mike is pulling a bit once too often, and with some of the older rogues especially, it's beginning to get a bit nonsensical. I couldn't, if I were writing Tracy, see myself using any rogue more than twice. Otherwise you start ending up with the situation that we currently have with characters like Dab Stract, No Face, and Pig E. Bank. I mean, obviously it's hard not to (foolish not to, even) have some repetition of rogues, but at the same time, it would behoove Mike to create some better, more memorable new rogues. The problem is, as fantastic as Mike is when he is writing from the vantage point of 'old' Tracy, his newer creations seem to suffer. Sweatbox should have been a homerun, but instead entirely too much time was spent with George Takei instead. It wasn't a bad story, to be sure, and Sweatbox is such a great design and personality, and with a nice great end, that it's really a shame that Mike couldn't pull back a little back and see that the gimmick of having George Takei was diluting what would have been a home run otherwise. Morning Gloria, Abner Kadaver, the first (and only solo) Double-up story, Phishface, the Jumbler, Thunderchild...none of these have really been stellar. With the exception of Blackjack, all of Mike's creations have been hamstringed with either being kind of, well, lame (Morning Gloria, Jumbler, Thunderchild) or suffering from not being given the attention they deserve to an otherwise inspired creation (Phishface, Doubleup, Abner Kadaver, Sweatbox). All of his best stories have involved old rogues (Measles, Mr. Crime, Flyface and the Fifth, B.B. Eyes). And while I certainly don't think so, if you're a Moon fan and loving this story, you would have to agree that you would have to count this current story in the latter category of 'old' Tracy, not new. We know he can create really great rogues, because he has done quite a few worthy adversaries, now he just needs to give them worthy stories to match. And I wish he'd stop being so gimmicky with the guest stars too. Every once in a while is fine, but he's done a few too many cameos from other comic strips and real life people, I think it's turning into a bit of a crutch. Tracy has such a rich and diverse cast of characters that it's a little unnecessary. If an actor is really essential to the plot of Sweatbox (I'm not sure that this necessarily needed to be true), I think Tracy might have an actor friend that could be called upon without the need to hire George Takei. I mean I could take an airplane east through the continental United States, and overseas back through to LA then fly out to Tuscon...but that seems like a lot of time and effort when I could have just driven a couple hours south by car instead.
     
    One last note, I remember reading the part with the attempted revival of Purdy Fallar...I also remember it failing miserably and he being pronounced stone dead for real. So Purdy is alive for real (possibly actually a vegetable...we only have Notta's word for it, and why introduce a gun in act 1 if it's not going to go off in act 2...) so now I'm really, really cranky at this current story. Again. Perhaps someone more familiar with the Moon Era can confirm or correct me here? I'm not sure it would make me that less cranky, but a little less anyway if I'm just completely wrong.
     
    Aaron
     
     
     
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  • ksullet
    Mindy! Right. Man, that was driving me crazy. Thank you Sydney! Aaron
    Message 2 of 13 , May 7 1:23 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Mindy! Right. Man, that was driving me crazy. Thank you Sydney!
      Aaron

      --- In DickTracy@yahoogroups.com, "syd2918@..." <syd2918@...> wrote:
      >
      > Aaron, the name you are looking for is Mindy Ermine - (Poisie's daughter)
      > Mini bio on her attached - from the D.T. Encyclopedia.
      >
      >
      > SYD in Trinidad
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -------Original Message-------
      >
      > From: ksullet
      > Date: 5/6/2013 5:04:23 AM
      > To: DickTracy@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Fw: Re: [DickTracy] Re: Well, I am glad everyone seems to be
      > enjoying the story so far
      >
      > > Agreed it would be a bit silly if we could just clone any old villain back
      > from the grave but I am not so sure that is what is happening here. After
      > all, Dr. Zy Ghote, a known fraud, is in charge of the Moon Maid "re-creation
      > project.
      > >
      >
      > I understand, but it still leaves a really sour taste in my mouth. Once a
      > particular door is opened, it's hard to close, and if people can live on the
      > Moon, then you will have people saying why not to a legitimate cloner. A
      > similar situation happened with Jason Tood and Batman. He was 'brought back'
      > in Hush only for it to be Clayface, but then brought back for real
      > (presumably due to unreasonable pressure from the fnas). To what net gain
      > though? Jason Todd is still a terrible character and the comic he has
      > relaunched is one of the most sexist titles produced by DC. I'm not
      > suggesting that a similar thing will happen here, but considering how many
      > things could have been pushed forward as reasonable Moon stories, it wasn't
      > necessary to go into Moon Maid territory to begin with. And lest you and
      > Bill recall, the last time Zy Ghote cloned someone that clone turned out to
      > be not a clone true. It turned out to be the genuine article. I love Mumbles
      > but it was a mistake for Collins to bring him back into play, and with the
      > thinnest of methods as well. If Zy Ghote is running a con again (and I agree
      > that there is no reason to think he isn't), then it is quite possible this
      > is the genuine article which pretty much throws the pathos of the original
      > death right out the window and again opens us up to bringing back more
      > characters under the thinnest of margins. (Also, at that point, Moon Maid is
      > obviously impervious to death, since between Gould and Curtis, she pretty
      > much has an answer to anything anyone wants to try on her, which is fine...
      > if this is Superman). I know it's still too early to tell, but as I've
      > mentioned before, I'm a writer, and I know story structure, and I'm having a
      > hard time seeing where this ends in a way that is satisfying. I still think
      > the only option which included bringing back Moon Maid involved Poisie
      > Ermine's daughter (whose name keeps escaping my memory, help me out guys)
      > enacting revenge on the Plentys (Sparkle in particular). However, given the
      > conversations between Mysta and Zy Ghote, that would seem to not be even
      > remotely the case. That leaves us with other possibilities, none of which
      > seem good. I don't know. Maybe Mike has thought of the miracle card that
      > makes this all right. I guess we shall see.
      >
      > > It is difficult to criticize a story even as we are barely into it. Right
      > now the story to me is all questions. The answers have not yet begun to
      > reveal themselves and I tend to think that all of the "balls in the air"
      > will find resolutions in this extra-length tale. I base this prediction on
      > logic. If we have to wait until after the 3-month Moon Maid story to find
      > out what is happening with all of these various scenarios, the pay off comes
      > too far from the set up. Mike has also stated that any excursions into side
      > stories during the Moon Maid arc will end up relating to the Moon Maid arc.
      > I think that during this story, the juggler will catch most of the balls.
      > >
      >
      > Which would be fine except some of those balls had already been set free
      > previous to Mr. Crime to be caught and then thrown right back into freedom.
      > So we're looking right now, minimum, at a second Stilletta story, a second
      > Blackjack story (although to be fair, yea, because I do love Blackjack), a
      > third Doubleup story (if we count his involvement with Mr. Crime), a fourth
      > B.B. Eyes story, and a I've kind of lost count on Mumbles. Gould villains
      > rarely got a second crack let alone a third or a fourth, or a Mumbles sized
      > shot at it all. That seems a bit much, balls caught or not. Jail, last I
      > checked, does not actually come equipped with a revolving door. And while I
      > d love it if I were wrong, I don't think Mr. Curtis has the guts to kill all
      > of those characters (to be fair, I'm not sure any writer would, including
      > myself).
      >
      > > As I have indicated on the board before, I am in show business. I have
      > great respect for Shakespeare but I can tell you that every single
      > production of Hamlet is a re-imagining of the iconic play and its characters
      > The same is true for every play re-produced or every movie re-made.
      > Consequently, I am probably much more flexible about taking characters and
      > scripts in different directions than the average Dick Tracy fan. A theme
      > like "Crime Doesn't Pay" can be interpreted in many different ways and still
      > convey the same meaning. A strict interpretation might equate to "Tracy
      > always gets his man." A different and no less valid interpretation might be,
      > "Sometimes the bad guys might win skirmishes but in the end, Tracy always
      > gets his man." Although the first is more straight forward, the latter is
      > often more interesting.
      > >
      >
      > Indeed, everyone wants to make it their own for better or ill, and certainly
      > Mike's track record to this point is still more good than bad. I'm not
      > adverse to a bad guy escaping to face justice at a later date, but it's a
      > trick Mike is pulling a bit once too often, and with some of the older
      > rogues especially, it's beginning to get a bit nonsensical. I couldn't, if I
      > were writing Tracy, see myself using any rogue more than twice. Otherwise
      > you start ending up with the situation that we currently have with
      > characters like Dab Stract, No Face, and Pig E. Bank. I mean, obviously it's
      > hard not to (foolish not to, even) have some repetition of rogues, but at
      > the same time, it would behoove Mike to create some better, more memorable
      > new rogues. The problem is, as fantastic as Mike is when he is writing from
      > the vantage point of 'old' Tracy, his newer creations seem to suffer.
      > Sweatbox should have been a homerun, but instead entirely too much time was
      > spent with George Takei instead. It wasn't a bad story, to be sure, and
      > Sweatbox is such a great design and personality, and with a nice great end,
      > that it's really a shame that Mike couldn't pull back a little back and see
      > that the gimmick of having George Takei was diluting what would have been a
      > home run otherwise. Morning Gloria, Abner Kadaver, the first (and only solo)
      > Double-up story, Phishface, the Jumbler, Thunderchild...none of these have
      > really been stellar. With the exception of Blackjack, all of Mike's
      > creations have been hamstringed with either being kind of, well, lame
      > (Morning Gloria, Jumbler, Thunderchild) or suffering from not being given
      > the attention they deserve to an otherwise inspired creation (Phishface,
      > Doubleup, Abner Kadaver, Sweatbox). All of his best stories have involved
      > old rogues (Measles, Mr. Crime, Flyface and the Fifth, B.B. Eyes). And while
      > I certainly don't think so, if you're a Moon fan and loving this story, you
      > would have to agree that you would have to count this current story in the
      > latter category of 'old' Tracy, not new. We know he can create really great
      > rogues, because he has done quite a few worthy adversaries, now he just
      > needs to give them worthy stories to match. And I wish he'd stop being so
      > gimmicky with the guest stars too. Every once in a while is fine, but he's
      > done a few too many cameos from other comic strips and real life people, I
      > think it's turning into a bit of a crutch. Tracy has such a rich and diverse
      > cast of characters that it's a little unnecessary. If an actor is really
      > essential to the plot of Sweatbox (I'm not sure that this necessarily needed
      > to be true), I think Tracy might have an actor friend that could be called
      > upon without the need to hire George Takei. I mean I could take an airplane
      > east through the continental United States, and overseas back through to LA
      > then fly out to Tuscon...but that seems like a lot of time and effort when I
      > could have just driven a couple hours south by car instead.
      >
      > One last note, I remember reading the part with the attempted revival of
      > Purdy Fallar...I also remember it failing miserably and he being pronounced
      > stone dead for real. So Purdy is alive for real (possibly actually a
      > vegetable...we only have Notta's word for it, and why introduce a gun in act
      > 1 if it's not going to go off in act 2...) so now I'm really, really cranky
      > at this current story. Again. Perhaps someone more familiar with the Moon
      > Era can confirm or correct me here? I'm not sure it would make me that less
      > cranky, but a little less anyway if I'm just completely wrong.
      >
      > Aaron
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > "Crime doesn't pay"Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
    • doc_1947_g
      Her name is Mindy Ermine. And as far as I know, they were both sent to jail. She to a juvenile center and him to the pen. BTW I like this nice discusions
      Message 3 of 13 , May 7 5:42 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Her name is Mindy Ermine. And as far as I know, they were both sent to jail. She to a juvenile center and him to the pen.
        BTW I like this nice discusions where everybody respect the others.

        Doc1947G from Canada

        --- In DickTracy@yahoogroups.com, "ksullet" <idesama@...> wrote:
        I still think the only option which included bringing back Moon Maid involved Poisie Ermine's daughter (whose name keeps escaping my memory, help me out guys) enacting revenge on the Plentys (Sparkle in particular
        >
        > Aaron
        >
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