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Re: reactions to reviewers from ff.net

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  • tom1marvoloriddle@ymail.com
    Hmm...I don t see why people advocate to tell Dumbledore; it is fairly likely that even if they did tell him the said fact about Harry and Bella, Dumbledore
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 8, 2012
      Hmm...I don't see why people advocate to tell Dumbledore; it is fairly likely that even if they did tell him the said fact about Harry and Bella, Dumbledore would most probably maintain his usual standard fare and clamp down on the information, witholding it from anyone bar the extreme essentials. Essentially it would be Moody and no else - much like his behaviour about final horcrux and Snape. He tells him Harry needs to die...and nothing else really.

      Always found him to be a rather arrogant character because of the whole "Greater Good" issues. Though so far Silvere has done a good job on Dumbledore - most people cannot achieve the balance between him being a outright evil character or the greater grandfatherly leader of light. Personally...i think he is grey much like delenda est and cannon paint him to be. Good intentions with bad means and ideas along the way.

      I'm interested in what Bella and Harry plan to do now. They bring much refreshment to the war - which seems to be stalled in trenches at the moment. For one though I agree with Bella on "There is no army without proper leadership and no victory without competent guidance". They have been as duo the most sucessful enemies of Tom Riddle. Unlike the Order they managed to damage his war funds, his horcruxes as well as his forces ( Order's No Damage or Killing is ...yeah).

      The current Ministry...quite the change. Prewitt is Crouch like individual and his ability to stall the war rather than cause an outright failure; because sadly if Aurors maintained Order's operating policy Voldemort would have been at the brink of winning much like 1981...Not so certain where the politcal side of Delenda Est is headed currently as we haven't had much exposure to what the policies on non-war issues the current administration has. Wait and see i suppose.

      The Potter's ...interesting sidestory. Not certain if they will ever know the truth - frankly it wouldn't even change anything. They aren't his parents (the whole AU issue) and even so they both are adults - they could establish cordial relationship, but I don't think it would be realistic for Harry to pull a whole Darth Vader motif and "I'm your son" them. Delenda Est seems to pride itself on being realistic (Silvere you have definetly improved since the Earl...far more realistic).

      The order... i can't see much potenial for them being a decent support against the more elite duelers of Voldemort's rank. Killing Curse vs. Stunning Spell. Need I say more? I can see certain fractions within Order supporting the duo - Moody and the like minded have no problem with taking the gloves off.

      The knowledge of Bella and Harry's time travelling... hmm even without them saying anything to others which is probably the most realistic outcome, the smarter characters like Dumbledore or Riddle might figure it out. Up to the author I suppose. Doubt either of the great minds would share the little fact - both like their secrets.

      Bella/Harry wise...I think someone already mention pregnancy at this point in war would not be a sensible thing...unless it is used as miscarriage filler (thanks gallandro...or someone. can't quite remember).

      Hmm Potter's junior generation. Interesting. Hermione and other canon characters. I think they serve as good characters to replace the interractions Harry previously had with Blacks. They have potential as characters to prove interesting or simple filler.

      I'm curious how the Hallows issue is going to be handled...personally I support diregarding them completely. Ring that shows dead close to you doesn't sound unusual - more like a legimencing device that then creates an image. Elder Wand was JKR solution on how to beat the strongest wizard alive. Have him kill himself again. She ditched the prophecy incidently.

      Finally...Flamels could prove to be interesting seperate arc. A Dumbledore , a pair of Black and a Voldemort after a certain red Stone. Perhaps a ministry inteference. On the run we have 600 year old wizard that assumingly is fairly strong while not Riddle level.

      Hmm...I made this into a review. Ooops...there you go Silvere. Might repost this on ff.net later... :D

      --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "lord_silvere" <lordsilvere@...> wrote:
      >
      > Yes, there are some who want Harry to come out in the open and tell everything. Others want him not to. Both people will be gratified and disappointed before the end of the story. For those of you who don't want Harry in the open, enjoy it while it lasts. :)
      >
      > Harry is usually close by or ready to do something whenever Bellatrix interacts alone with the Order.
      >
      > I'm happy that you folks have observed improvement since I wrote Earl . . . wretched thing that it is. ;)
      >
      > LS
      >
      > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@> wrote:
      > >
      > > So I thought I would read the review over at ff.net and see what others had to say about everything and I was surprised by a few things.
      > >
      > > I am shocked how many people are advocating that Harry tell Dumbledoor and the Order everything about who he is. I never even thought that was in the works for your story and was thrown for a loop. I think some of this comes from another of my favorite stories A BLACK COMEDY by nonjon in this story Harry only tells about his past when everything blows up in his face he had taken the opportunity to finally make a life for himself outside of everything that he knew. I just assumed that Silvere was doing something similar.
      > >
      > > I also feel the need to remind people that we know nothing of Harry's former universe. Remember other than the horocrux's and a general sense that most people died after the death eater squads were sent after them. Harry was in a cell and didn't know of the events that are cannon so any things that seem odd or out of character can be from any number of things not just because the author made a mistake. JKR's universe has many little flaws that make the creation of fanfiction so easy to assume everything should be the same is ridiculous.
      > >
      > > I will say that I was wondering something else we know Harry and Bella have those rings was Harry checking up on his new wife in her meetings? I would think this would be a sensible precaution despite them being the "good guys" Bella seems like someone to hedge her bets and try to have a contingency plan. In the same line will Harry try to spy on the Order through Lily. And has Dumbledoor taken a look at her ring since the whole rebirth of Ashworth?
      > >
      > > Many people have commented on how much Silvere has grown as an author since Earl of the North and while I haven't really thought about it I want to add my voice to this as well. Your stories have always been good but looking back your skills have definitely improved and I can only hope to follow your efforts for many years to come. (Heck I hope you do continue and eventually make money on your efforts so I can buy books from someone I know I will like.)
      > >
      > > The waiting on chapters is something I have grown accustomed to in my time in fandom I have seen an unfortunate number of worthy stories shelved and abandoned and anytime an author continues something I've learned to be grateful and try my hardest to not be disappointed if it never continues.
      > >
      > > gallandro
      > >
      >
    • Thomas Pulk
      First of all I m glad to see someone else using the group, it had seemed like all the other members were MIA. I hope the story is still progressing, but
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 8, 2012
        First of all I'm glad to see someone else using the group, it had seemed like all the other members were MIA.

        I hope the story is still progressing, but honestly at this point in time their is so much back-story for all the characters that any perspective or information imparted will satisfy me. Harry and Bella can play their games in the background while letting the Order play catch-up and it would still rank as one of my favorite stories.

        The one point I'm surprised I never asked about before is wondering just how big the Order is here and now. WE know it was started as a group by Dumbledoor to combat and lookout for the signs of Darkness, but with the new Minister Prewitt and expanded Aurors I doubt as many are willing or able to work outside of their sanction.

        I hate to speculate on the upcoming chapters because I don't want to criticize our author or his timetable, but I want to try to generate some more activity on this board some I think we will see:

        -Voldemort cursing his DE's
        -Belletrix spying on the Order and the Ministry
        -Rose talking to Lily, James, or Sirus about Harry Ashworth
        -another ghostly attack that is seen by non DE's
        -Snape and Narcissia talking about Ashworth and Lucius
        -Harry or Belletrix getting a lead on another horocrux

        here's hoping to see some responses.

        gallandro


        PS. If anyone is interested I just stumbled across an older story that I still think has great characterization and originality. While the Harry might seem super-powered the ending almost discounts this and finishes in the way I think is so much better than the Hallows of cannon. (Reign of Power by Fayr Warning.) http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2287647/1/bReign_b_of_bPower_b
      • tom1marvoloriddle@ymail.com
        First and foremost - Voldemort s cage has been rattled. The question is now - will his fear of Harry will lead to fury taken out on DE or rather a beserker
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 8, 2012
          First and foremost - Voldemort's "cage" has been rattled. The question is now - will his fear of Harry will lead to fury taken out on DE or rather a beserker attack on Ministry. My first bet is it's more likely that DEs will suffer. Voldemort on panic mode attack is a bad thing ...to quote Harry "He feels more dangerous now" DH p2(shame it didn't appear in the book...it makes sense too).

          How big is the order...It seems to be a family/close associates of first members recruitment. In the books it was always presented as a small 30-40 people group. My guess even with losses, it's some round there. DE numbers...cannot say. Author is quite mum on what Riddle did in the last twenty years besides war. They seem to consist of a werewolf pack, few dozen wizards and some giants as well dementors on his side. Though in wizarding world numbers can mean nothing...the duo fought the war with fair sucess. Dumbledore and Voldemort are better than any ten base line DE/Order member.

          "to criticize our author or his timetable"..umm did you mean "on his timetable? As long as it's quality and gets completed i have nothing but time.

          It's likely Harry or Bella will do something that connects/intefers/etc with the Ministry. Frankly, it's sooner or later that author will have something politcal floating - it's what made this story great in the first place. It's not just "LV died, everyone is alive, government is so much better suddenly, laws are great"...no, Harry remembers that end of first war did nothing to change the politics of LV's supporters. So any Wizengamont/Minister/DMLE/etc contact should be interesting. Who is running what policies.

          Speculation:
          Did Voldemort add more than just horcruxes to protect himself? Or made more? Is there a limit? How many did he have when war started?


          --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@...> wrote:
          >
          > First of all I'm glad to see someone else using the group, it had seemed like all the other members were MIA.
          >
          > I hope the story is still progressing, but honestly at this point in time their is so much back-story for all the characters that any perspective or information imparted will satisfy me. Harry and Bella can play their games in the background while letting the Order play catch-up and it would still rank as one of my favorite stories.
          >
          > The one point I'm surprised I never asked about before is wondering just how big the Order is here and now. WE know it was started as a group by Dumbledoor to combat and lookout for the signs of Darkness, but with the new Minister Prewitt and expanded Aurors I doubt as many are willing or able to work outside of their sanction.
          >
          > I hate to speculate on the upcoming chapters because I don't want to criticize our author or his timetable, but I want to try to generate some more activity on this board some I think we will see:
          >
          > -Voldemort cursing his DE's
          > -Belletrix spying on the Order and the Ministry
          > -Rose talking to Lily, James, or Sirus about Harry Ashworth
          > -another ghostly attack that is seen by non DE's
          > -Snape and Narcissia talking about Ashworth and Lucius
          > -Harry or Belletrix getting a lead on another horocrux
          >
          > here's hoping to see some responses.
          >
          > gallandro
          >
          >
          > PS. If anyone is interested I just stumbled across an older story that I still think has great characterization and originality. While the Harry might seem super-powered the ending almost discounts this and finishes in the way I think is so much better than the Hallows of cannon. (Reign of Power by Fayr Warning.) http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2287647/1/bReign_b_of_bPower_b
          >
        • Thomas Pulk
          Essentially I meant that any comments I make are in no way trying to rush an author. I don t know about Voldemort making more Horocruxes but I do think that
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 10, 2012
            Essentially I meant that any comments I make are in no way trying to rush an author.

            I don't know about Voldemort making more Horocruxes but I do think that some of the reason he isn't stronger was trying to solve the pain and scarring he has to deal with. In my mind you only have so much soul despite the fact that Voldemort split it 6 times there has to be an upper limit to him going completely insane. I also think that since he knew he wanted 7 pieces for the magical benefit that regardless a new horocrux wouldn't be as effective. That's my personal thoughts on the matter I've always thought that in order to get the benefit of a mystical 7 that the pieces needed to be the same size. This means that each piece is like a portion of a heptagram. If one piece is smaller it leaves a whole in the shape its better to instead get an deformed hexagram that is unbroken throughout.

            As far as who is running what in this new ministry we won't know until we're clued in. I do wonder thought with St. Mungo's being inacessable to people are potion making is a lucrative hobby for people. Trained Healers might be practicing on the side for any number of reasons I would think Harry and Belletrix might meet one and arrange some kind of deal.

            gallandro

            --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@..." <tom1marvoloriddle@...> wrote:
            >
            > First and foremost - Voldemort's "cage" has been rattled. The question is now - will his fear of Harry will lead to fury taken out on DE or rather a beserker attack on Ministry. My first bet is it's more likely that DEs will suffer. Voldemort on panic mode attack is a bad thing ...to quote Harry "He feels more dangerous now" DH p2(shame it didn't appear in the book...it makes sense too).
            >
            > How big is the order...It seems to be a family/close associates of first members recruitment. In the books it was always presented as a small 30-40 people group. My guess even with losses, it's some round there. DE numbers...cannot say. Author is quite mum on what Riddle did in the last twenty years besides war. They seem to consist of a werewolf pack, few dozen wizards and some giants as well dementors on his side. Though in wizarding world numbers can mean nothing...the duo fought the war with fair sucess. Dumbledore and Voldemort are better than any ten base line DE/Order member.
            >
            > "to criticize our author or his timetable"..umm did you mean "on his timetable? As long as it's quality and gets completed i have nothing but time.
            >
            > It's likely Harry or Bella will do something that connects/intefers/etc with the Ministry. Frankly, it's sooner or later that author will have something politcal floating - it's what made this story great in the first place. It's not just "LV died, everyone is alive, government is so much better suddenly, laws are great"...no, Harry remembers that end of first war did nothing to change the politics of LV's supporters. So any Wizengamont/Minister/DMLE/etc contact should be interesting. Who is running what policies.
            >
            > Speculation:
            > Did Voldemort add more than just horcruxes to protect himself? Or made more? Is there a limit? How many did he have when war started?
            >
            >
          • tom1marvoloriddle@ymail.com
            Lord Voldemort as of current seems to be a Darth Vader like person - his spells are strenghtened by the pain, but in the ned it makeshim lose the famous
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 13, 2012
              Lord Voldemort as of current seems to be a Darth Vader like person - his spells are strenghtened by the pain, but in the ned it makeshim lose the famous ability to outplan people. Not that Tom Riddle isn't above just steamrolling over people.

              St Mungo has probably spies from all three major fractions - Order, Ministry and Death Eater's. Harry Ashworth is a person of interest to all of them for different reasons. Voldemort has a grudge and the fact that Harry knows about his Horcruxes, Minister seems to have personal vendetta against him (unclear what Ministry wants from harry though - we can be assured it isn't death though. Dumbledore...he seems to have penchant for having odd agents on his side. Plus he would want Ashworth's intel.

              A magical heptagram...makes sense. Even in real pagan cultures the so called "second" heptagram represented magical power as well as symbolising perfection in many Christian denominations. So Voldemort using this to strenghten his magic...wouldn't be a unexpected factor.

              I'm curious whether horcrux creation drives the user insane or just numbs their ability to comperhend the emotions of others and kills their own emotional range.

              Another interesting point is how does Bella measure up against the wizards of Delenda Est events - we know she is strong, but just how strong?

              --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@...> wrote:
              >
              > Essentially I meant that any comments I make are in no way trying to rush an author.
              >
              > I don't know about Voldemort making more Horocruxes but I do think that some of the reason he isn't stronger was trying to solve the pain and scarring he has to deal with. In my mind you only have so much soul despite the fact that Voldemort split it 6 times there has to be an upper limit to him going completely insane. I also think that since he knew he wanted 7 pieces for the magical benefit that regardless a new horocrux wouldn't be as effective. That's my personal thoughts on the matter I've always thought that in order to get the benefit of a mystical 7 that the pieces needed to be the same size. This means that each piece is like a portion of a heptagram. If one piece is smaller it leaves a whole in the shape its better to instead get an deformed hexagram that is unbroken throughout.
              >
              > As far as who is running what in this new ministry we won't know until we're clued in. I do wonder thought with St. Mungo's being inacessable to people are potion making is a lucrative hobby for people. Trained Healers might be practicing on the side for any number of reasons I would think Harry and Belletrix might meet one and arrange some kind of deal.
              >
              > gallandro
              >
              > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@" <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
              > >
              > > First and foremost - Voldemort's "cage" has been rattled. The question is now - will his fear of Harry will lead to fury taken out on DE or rather a beserker attack on Ministry. My first bet is it's more likely that DEs will suffer. Voldemort on panic mode attack is a bad thing ...to quote Harry "He feels more dangerous now" DH p2(shame it didn't appear in the book...it makes sense too).
              > >
              > > How big is the order...It seems to be a family/close associates of first members recruitment. In the books it was always presented as a small 30-40 people group. My guess even with losses, it's some round there. DE numbers...cannot say. Author is quite mum on what Riddle did in the last twenty years besides war. They seem to consist of a werewolf pack, few dozen wizards and some giants as well dementors on his side. Though in wizarding world numbers can mean nothing...the duo fought the war with fair sucess. Dumbledore and Voldemort are better than any ten base line DE/Order member.
              > >
              > > "to criticize our author or his timetable"..umm did you mean "on his timetable? As long as it's quality and gets completed i have nothing but time.
              > >
              > > It's likely Harry or Bella will do something that connects/intefers/etc with the Ministry. Frankly, it's sooner or later that author will have something politcal floating - it's what made this story great in the first place. It's not just "LV died, everyone is alive, government is so much better suddenly, laws are great"...no, Harry remembers that end of first war did nothing to change the politics of LV's supporters. So any Wizengamont/Minister/DMLE/etc contact should be interesting. Who is running what policies.
              > >
              > > Speculation:
              > > Did Voldemort add more than just horcruxes to protect himself? Or made more? Is there a limit? How many did he have when war started?
              > >
              > >
              >
            • lord_silvere
              I m not sure whether you want me to respond to these musings or not. I will say that they ve been helpful. Firstly, they draw my mind to Delenda. That is good
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 13, 2012
                I'm not sure whether you want me to respond to these musings or not. I will say that they've been helpful. Firstly, they draw my mind to Delenda. That is good because scenes have to stew in my mind for a bit before I can put "on paper" as it were. Secondly, they help me get a feel for what scenes you want to see. Stuff happens that I don't always cover on stage, and I am not always sure what you want to see.

                But anyways . . . . regarding Bellatrix's relative strength in dueling against other opponents. What do you people think? Who could she take and who could take her and why?

                LS

                --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@..." <tom1marvoloriddle@...> wrote:
                >
                > Lord Voldemort as of current seems to be a Darth Vader like person - his spells are strenghtened by the pain, but in the ned it makeshim lose the famous ability to outplan people. Not that Tom Riddle isn't above just steamrolling over people.
                >
                > St Mungo has probably spies from all three major fractions - Order, Ministry and Death Eater's. Harry Ashworth is a person of interest to all of them for different reasons. Voldemort has a grudge and the fact that Harry knows about his Horcruxes, Minister seems to have personal vendetta against him (unclear what Ministry wants from harry though - we can be assured it isn't death though. Dumbledore...he seems to have penchant for having odd agents on his side. Plus he would want Ashworth's intel.
                >
                > A magical heptagram...makes sense. Even in real pagan cultures the so called "second" heptagram represented magical power as well as symbolising perfection in many Christian denominations. So Voldemort using this to strenghten his magic...wouldn't be a unexpected factor.
                >
                > I'm curious whether horcrux creation drives the user insane or just numbs their ability to comperhend the emotions of others and kills their own emotional range.
                >
                > Another interesting point is how does Bella measure up against the wizards of Delenda Est events - we know she is strong, but just how strong?
                >
                > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Essentially I meant that any comments I make are in no way trying to rush an author.
                > >
                > > I don't know about Voldemort making more Horocruxes but I do think that some of the reason he isn't stronger was trying to solve the pain and scarring he has to deal with. In my mind you only have so much soul despite the fact that Voldemort split it 6 times there has to be an upper limit to him going completely insane. I also think that since he knew he wanted 7 pieces for the magical benefit that regardless a new horocrux wouldn't be as effective. That's my personal thoughts on the matter I've always thought that in order to get the benefit of a mystical 7 that the pieces needed to be the same size. This means that each piece is like a portion of a heptagram. If one piece is smaller it leaves a whole in the shape its better to instead get an deformed hexagram that is unbroken throughout.
                > >
                > > As far as who is running what in this new ministry we won't know until we're clued in. I do wonder thought with St. Mungo's being inacessable to people are potion making is a lucrative hobby for people. Trained Healers might be practicing on the side for any number of reasons I would think Harry and Belletrix might meet one and arrange some kind of deal.
                > >
                > > gallandro
                > >
                > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@" <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > First and foremost - Voldemort's "cage" has been rattled. The question is now - will his fear of Harry will lead to fury taken out on DE or rather a beserker attack on Ministry. My first bet is it's more likely that DEs will suffer. Voldemort on panic mode attack is a bad thing ...to quote Harry "He feels more dangerous now" DH p2(shame it didn't appear in the book...it makes sense too).
                > > >
                > > > How big is the order...It seems to be a family/close associates of first members recruitment. In the books it was always presented as a small 30-40 people group. My guess even with losses, it's some round there. DE numbers...cannot say. Author is quite mum on what Riddle did in the last twenty years besides war. They seem to consist of a werewolf pack, few dozen wizards and some giants as well dementors on his side. Though in wizarding world numbers can mean nothing...the duo fought the war with fair sucess. Dumbledore and Voldemort are better than any ten base line DE/Order member.
                > > >
                > > > "to criticize our author or his timetable"..umm did you mean "on his timetable? As long as it's quality and gets completed i have nothing but time.
                > > >
                > > > It's likely Harry or Bella will do something that connects/intefers/etc with the Ministry. Frankly, it's sooner or later that author will have something politcal floating - it's what made this story great in the first place. It's not just "LV died, everyone is alive, government is so much better suddenly, laws are great"...no, Harry remembers that end of first war did nothing to change the politics of LV's supporters. So any Wizengamont/Minister/DMLE/etc contact should be interesting. Who is running what policies.
                > > >
                > > > Speculation:
                > > > Did Voldemort add more than just horcruxes to protect himself? Or made more? Is there a limit? How many did he have when war started?
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • tom1marvoloriddle@ymail.com
                Hey LS... and anyone can respond to the musings. At any rate Tom is probably the strongest dueller alive, in magic, reptoire and tactics. Dumbledore always
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 14, 2012
                  Hey LS... and anyone can respond to the musings. At any rate Tom is probably the strongest dueller alive, in magic, reptoire and tactics. Dumbledore always came close second and those two are suicide for Bella - while she may be able to wound Dumbledore with a Dark Art, he has fought Voldemort(not certain if that ever happened in your universe) and Grindewald. My suspicion is that in third is Harry - his magical strength is comparable to the Dark Lord's. His poor selection of spells in the past meant it was 50/50 if he won. If he finds the strength to fire a Killing Curse (mental strength that is) he jumps to No 2. Deadly and dangerous. Fourth...Bella and Moody. Bella has a great selection of Dark Arts making her a offensive nightmare for opponents; she also spent fair amount of time with Harry giving her insight into real life fighting and Moody is a grizzled veteran of war - if there is a fight, Moody was there. He in a duel with Bella...50/50 bar outside inteferance. Finally in the fifth and last place...may sound random but Amelia Bones. In cannon Voldemort himself goes after her rather than sending other Death Eaters to do it for him. It suggests she is probably stronger than we know... whether she is that strong - don't know.

                  Bella can take on anyone from Potter/Weasley/Longbottom clan one on one and possibly groups. She has enough power for it.
                  Snape has 80% chance of losing - she would have to be tired or in a disadvantaged position to even give him the 20% possibility.
                  Bella vs. Moody...50/50 and both on a stretcher. Vicious and don't play fair is common thing for them.
                  Bella vs. Death Eaters... most of DE only gain the advantage if the other side isn't using Dark Arts or is actually a decent dueller. There a rag tag group of purebloods and such on LV's cause. Ther evictory against Bella would be based on either numbers/luck or such.

                  Anyway: new musing. How did he convince Dememntors in canon - the war went on for ten years so it couldn't have been an easy thing.In second war the joining of Dementors caused a massive upset - invincible soul suckers and few people who can cast Patronus Charm... and how did Voldemort stop them from consuming DE souls or his? How did Ministry control them in the first place? Thoughts on the matter?

                  --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "lord_silvere" <lordsilvere@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm not sure whether you want me to respond to these musings or not. I will say that they've been helpful. Firstly, they draw my mind to Delenda. That is good because scenes have to stew in my mind for a bit before I can put "on paper" as it were. Secondly, they help me get a feel for what scenes you want to see. Stuff happens that I don't always cover on stage, and I am not always sure what you want to see.
                  >
                  > But anyways . . . . regarding Bellatrix's relative strength in dueling against other opponents. What do you people think? Who could she take and who could take her and why?
                  >
                  > LS
                  >
                  > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@" <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Lord Voldemort as of current seems to be a Darth Vader like person - his spells are strenghtened by the pain, but in the ned it makeshim lose the famous ability to outplan people. Not that Tom Riddle isn't above just steamrolling over people.
                  > >
                  > > St Mungo has probably spies from all three major fractions - Order, Ministry and Death Eater's. Harry Ashworth is a person of interest to all of them for different reasons. Voldemort has a grudge and the fact that Harry knows about his Horcruxes, Minister seems to have personal vendetta against him (unclear what Ministry wants from harry though - we can be assured it isn't death though. Dumbledore...he seems to have penchant for having odd agents on his side. Plus he would want Ashworth's intel.
                  > >
                  > > A magical heptagram...makes sense. Even in real pagan cultures the so called "second" heptagram represented magical power as well as symbolising perfection in many Christian denominations. So Voldemort using this to strenghten his magic...wouldn't be a unexpected factor.
                  > >
                  > > I'm curious whether horcrux creation drives the user insane or just numbs their ability to comperhend the emotions of others and kills their own emotional range.
                  > >
                  > > Another interesting point is how does Bella measure up against the wizards of Delenda Est events - we know she is strong, but just how strong?
                  > >
                  > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Essentially I meant that any comments I make are in no way trying to rush an author.
                  > > >
                  > > > I don't know about Voldemort making more Horocruxes but I do think that some of the reason he isn't stronger was trying to solve the pain and scarring he has to deal with. In my mind you only have so much soul despite the fact that Voldemort split it 6 times there has to be an upper limit to him going completely insane. I also think that since he knew he wanted 7 pieces for the magical benefit that regardless a new horocrux wouldn't be as effective. That's my personal thoughts on the matter I've always thought that in order to get the benefit of a mystical 7 that the pieces needed to be the same size. This means that each piece is like a portion of a heptagram. If one piece is smaller it leaves a whole in the shape its better to instead get an deformed hexagram that is unbroken throughout.
                  > > >
                  > > > As far as who is running what in this new ministry we won't know until we're clued in. I do wonder thought with St. Mungo's being inacessable to people are potion making is a lucrative hobby for people. Trained Healers might be practicing on the side for any number of reasons I would think Harry and Belletrix might meet one and arrange some kind of deal.
                  > > >
                  > > > gallandro
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@" <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > First and foremost - Voldemort's "cage" has been rattled. The question is now - will his fear of Harry will lead to fury taken out on DE or rather a beserker attack on Ministry. My first bet is it's more likely that DEs will suffer. Voldemort on panic mode attack is a bad thing ...to quote Harry "He feels more dangerous now" DH p2(shame it didn't appear in the book...it makes sense too).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How big is the order...It seems to be a family/close associates of first members recruitment. In the books it was always presented as a small 30-40 people group. My guess even with losses, it's some round there. DE numbers...cannot say. Author is quite mum on what Riddle did in the last twenty years besides war. They seem to consist of a werewolf pack, few dozen wizards and some giants as well dementors on his side. Though in wizarding world numbers can mean nothing...the duo fought the war with fair sucess. Dumbledore and Voldemort are better than any ten base line DE/Order member.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > "to criticize our author or his timetable"..umm did you mean "on his timetable? As long as it's quality and gets completed i have nothing but time.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It's likely Harry or Bella will do something that connects/intefers/etc with the Ministry. Frankly, it's sooner or later that author will have something politcal floating - it's what made this story great in the first place. It's not just "LV died, everyone is alive, government is so much better suddenly, laws are great"...no, Harry remembers that end of first war did nothing to change the politics of LV's supporters. So any Wizengamont/Minister/DMLE/etc contact should be interesting. Who is running what policies.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Speculation:
                  > > > > Did Voldemort add more than just horcruxes to protect himself? Or made more? Is there a limit? How many did he have when war started?
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Zhi You Koh
                  Hey all, Hmmm, Tom, I largely agree with you, but I think that you might be overpowering Bella slightly. Voldemort and Dumbledore are undoubtedly stronger, and
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                    Hey all,

                    Hmmm, Tom, I largely agree with you, but I think that you might be overpowering Bella slightly.

                    Voldemort and Dumbledore are undoubtedly stronger, and I'm not even sure anyone can injure Dumbledore (even Voldemort didn't come close and he was out to kill). Dumbledore simply has too much experience and a whole host of spells no one has ever seen (his admission, more or less, on OoTP).

                    I think Moody has a better than 50-50 chance, maybe 70 or 80 in his favour? He has been tracking down DE for two decades now, and probably brushed with Voldemort a few times. I just can't see Bella, talented as she is, bringing down a veteran like Moody in a straightforward fight.

                    Snape is definitely 50-50 in my opinion. Even in canon, his knowledge of the Dark Arts is unparalleled (Dumbledore's hand) and his legilimency would give him an edge. His brief duel with McGonagall proves his abilities. I think even Harry might have trouble there (Snape's repertoire is just too big).

                    The problem is that no matter how talented Bella is, the rest still have 20 years of experience on her in a warzone. Sirius was able to duel a crazy Bellatrix in the DoM to a standstill (who, by LS's admission could match Harry), and he spent thirteen years in Azkaban. So I'm not sure if Bella could even successfully take one of them in a straight fight without difficulty.

                    I think your Lily is underpowered. A charms prodigy at school, one of the top in her year, and again with 20 years of experience should be rather formidable.

                    DE probably are a little more talented and numerous after so much fighting. 20 years would kill off a lot of the original DE, so there should be quite a few new faces. Voldemort might have a few favs like the old Bella whom he might have trained personally.

                    Cheers,
                    A-new-face-who-has-to-find-a-penname

                    On Wednesday, 14 March 2012, tom1marvoloriddle@... <tom1marvoloriddle@...> wrote:
                    >  
                    >
                    > Hey LS... and anyone can respond to the musings. At any rate Tom is probably the strongest dueller alive, in magic, reptoire and tactics. Dumbledore always came close second and those two are suicide for Bella - while she may be able to wound Dumbledore with a Dark Art, he has fought Voldemort(not certain if that ever happened in your universe) and Grindewald. My suspicion is that in third is Harry - his magical strength is comparable to the Dark Lord's. His poor selection of spells in the past meant it was 50/50 if he won. If he finds the strength to fire a Killing Curse (mental strength that is) he jumps to No 2. Deadly and dangerous. Fourth...Bella and Moody. Bella has a great selection of Dark Arts making her a offensive nightmare for opponents; she also spent fair amount of time with Harry giving her insight into real life fighting and Moody is a grizzled veteran of war - if there is a fight, Moody was there. He in a duel with Bella...50/50 bar outside inteferance. Finally in the fifth and last place...may sound random but Amelia Bones. In cannon Voldemort himself goes after her rather than sending other Death Eaters to do it for him. It suggests she is probably stronger than we know... whether she is that strong - don't know.
                    >
                    > Bella can take on anyone from Potter/Weasley/Longbottom clan one on one and possibly groups. She has enough power for it.
                    > Snape has 80% chance of losing - she would have to be tired or in a disadvantaged position to even give him the 20% possibility.
                    > Bella vs. Moody...50/50 and both on a stretcher. Vicious and don't play fair is common thing for them.
                    > Bella vs. Death Eaters... most of DE only gain the advantage if the other side isn't using Dark Arts or is actually a decent dueller. There a rag tag group of purebloods and such on LV's cause. Ther evictory against Bella would be based on either numbers/luck or such.
                    >
                    > Anyway: new musing. How did he convince Dememntors in canon - the war went on for ten years so it couldn't have been an easy thing.In second war the joining of Dementors caused a massive upset - invincible soul suckers and few people who can cast Patronus Charm... and how did Voldemort stop them from consuming DE souls or his? How did Ministry control them in the first place? Thoughts on the matter?
                    >
                    > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "lord_silvere" <lordsilvere@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> I'm not sure whether you want me to respond to these musings or not. I will say that they've been helpful. Firstly, they draw my mind to Delenda. That is good because scenes have to stew in my mind for a bit before I can put "on paper" as it were. Secondly, they help me get a feel for what scenes you want to see. Stuff happens that I don't always cover on stage, and I am not always sure what you want to see.
                    >>
                    >> But anyways . . . . regarding Bellatrix's relative strength in dueling against other opponents. What do you people think? Who could she take and who could take her and why?
                    >>
                    >> LS
                    >>
                    >> --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@" <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                    >> >
                    >> > Lord Voldemort as of current seems to be a Darth Vader like person - his spells are strenghtened by the pain, but in the ned it makeshim lose the famous ability to outplan people. Not that Tom Riddle isn't above just steamrolling over people.
                    >> >
                    >> > St Mungo has probably spies from all three major fractions - Order, Ministry and Death Eater's. Harry Ashworth is a person of interest to all of them for different reasons. Voldemort has a grudge and the fact that Harry knows about his Horcruxes, Minister seems to have personal vendetta against him (unclear what Ministry wants from harry though - we can be assured it isn't death though. Dumbledore...he seems to have penchant for having odd agents on his side. Plus he would want Ashworth's intel.
                    >> >
                    >> > A magical heptagram...makes sense. Even in real pagan cultures the so called "second" heptagram represented magical power as well as symbolising perfection in many Christian denominations. So Voldemort using this to strenghten his magic...wouldn't be a unexpected factor.
                    >> >
                    >> > I'm curious whether horcrux creation drives the user insane or just numbs their ability to comperhend the emotions of others and kills their own emotional range.
                    >> >
                    >> > Another interesting point is how does Bella measure up against the wizards of Delenda Est events - we know she is strong, but just how strong?
                    >> >
                    >> > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@> wrote:
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Essentially I meant that any comments I make are in no way trying to rush an author.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > I don't know about Voldemort making more Horocruxes but I do think that some of the reason he isn't stronger was trying to solve the pain and scarring he has to deal with. In my mind you only have so much soul despite the fact that Voldemort split it 6 times there has to be an upper limit to him going completely insane. I also think that since he knew he wanted 7 pieces for the magical benefit that regardless a new horocrux wouldn't be as effective. That's my personal thoughts on the matter I've always thought that in order to get the benefit of a mystical 7 that the pieces needed to be the same size. This means that each piece is like a portion of a heptagram. If one piece is smaller it leaves a whole in the shape its better to instead get an deformed hexagram that is unbroken throughout.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > As far as who is running what in this new ministry we won't know until we're clued in. I do wonder thought with St. Mungo's being inacessable to people are potion making is a lucrative hobby for people. Trained Healers might be practicing on the side for any number of reasons I would think Harry and Belletrix might meet one and arrange some kind of deal.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > gallandro
                    >> > >
                    >> > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@" <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > First and foremost - Voldemort's "cage" has been rattled. The question is now - will his fear of Harry will lead to fury taken out on DE or rather a beserker attack on Ministry. My first bet is it's more likely that DEs will suffer. Voldemort on panic mode attack is a bad thing ...to quote Harry "He feels more dangerous now" DH p2(shame it didn't appear in the book...it makes sense too).
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > How big is the order...It seems to be a family/close associates of first members recruitment. In the books it was always presented as a small 30-40 people group. My guess even with losses, it's some round there. DE numbers...cannot say. Author is quite mum on what Riddle did in the last twenty years besides war. They seem to consist of a werewolf pack, few dozen wizards and some giants as well dementors on his side. Though in wizarding world numbers can mean nothing...the duo fought the war with fair sucess. Dumbledore and Voldemort are better than any ten base line DE/Order member.
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > "to criticize our author or his timetable"..umm did you mean "on his timetable? As long as it's quality and gets completed i have nothing but time.
                    >> > > >
                    >> > > > It's likely Harry or Bella will do something that connects/intefers/etc with the Ministry. Frankly, it's sooner
                    >
                    >
                  • tom1marvoloriddle@ymail.com
                    I see your point - perhaps I been lowering Moody s value. To be honest, Moody was never seen fighting besides some brief description in OoTP, so I was taking a
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                      I see your point - perhaps I been lowering Moody's value. To be honest, Moody was never seen fighting besides some brief description in OoTP, so I was taking a guess. He certainly has the experience as you say. My only defence on Bella is she knows a host Dark Magic that has been forgotten by few bar Blacks - so she has the "Suprise Kill" chance.

                      Snape and Lily..huh, with Lily I always found her to be to kind to be a good fighter. I'm not denying her talent - she is probably has the potential (ancient blood magic in canon - most would cringe at the idea of killing themselves to make something work.) , but frankly she currently lacks the guts to be a fighter rather than a dueller.
                      Snape - by his own admission he joined DE for power and glory, so my assumption is a lot of his more advanced knowledge is based on what the Dark Lord taught him. So fifth and fourth place on my scale can intechange between Snape, Bella, Moody and Amelia.

                      Dumbledore - I will admit, he and Voldemort were at a standstill in OoTP - whether it was the fact that Voldemort was weakened by bringing down the barriers around Ministry or simply fact they had similar amount of power.

                      DE...they always been a interesting group; they are often more dangerous than a standard Auror because of Dark arts and fanatical blood supermacy issue - there is also the variation of talent between them - they go from idiots (Goyle Senior anyone?) to talents like Snape (if he was loyal).

                      Ah, the pesky 20 years thing. It makes a valid issue, but I doubt there would a significant rise in power for monsters like T.M.R. or A.D. - though Voldemort is more lethal as he has less moral issues than Dumbledore at using the worst of spells. Though Dumbledore isn't a ray of sunshine himself - what did he do to win the fight with Ginderwald who was the other major Dark Lord of the century. Dark Arts, treachery and tricks or something else?

                      Hmm... Dementors - did Voldemort threathen them with something like Finedfyre to make them break their Ministry agreement? Grinderwald (with the little back story he is given) was never mentioned to have them as allies even though they are such terrors to other species. Thoughts?

                      --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, Zhi You Koh <Kzy8value2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hey all,
                      >
                      > Hmmm, Tom, I largely agree with you, but I think that you might be
                      > overpowering Bella slightly.
                      >
                      > Voldemort and Dumbledore are undoubtedly stronger, and I'm not even sure
                      > anyone can injure Dumbledore (even Voldemort didn't come close and he was
                      > out to kill). Dumbledore simply has too much experience and a whole host of
                      > spells no one has ever seen (his admission, more or less, on OoTP).
                      >
                      > I think Moody has a better than 50-50 chance, maybe 70 or 80 in his favour?
                      > He has been tracking down DE for two decades now, and probably brushed with
                      > Voldemort a few times. I just can't see Bella, talented as she is, bringing
                      > down a veteran like Moody in a straightforward fight.
                      >
                      > Snape is definitely 50-50 in my opinion. Even in canon, his knowledge of
                      > the Dark Arts is unparalleled (Dumbledore's hand) and his legilimency would
                      > give him an edge. His brief duel with McGonagall proves his abilities. I
                      > think even Harry might have trouble there (Snape's repertoire is just too
                      > big).
                      >
                      > The problem is that no matter how talented Bella is, the rest still have 20
                      > years of experience on her in a warzone. Sirius was able to duel a crazy
                      > Bellatrix in the DoM to a standstill (who, by LS's admission could match
                      > Harry), and he spent thirteen years in Azkaban. So I'm not sure if Bella
                      > could even successfully take one of them in a straight fight without
                      > difficulty.
                      >
                      > I think your Lily is underpowered. A charms prodigy at school, one of the
                      > top in her year, and again with 20 years of experience should be rather
                      > formidable.
                      >
                      > DE probably are a little more talented and numerous after so much fighting.
                      > 20 years would kill off a lot of the original DE, so there should be quite
                      > a few new faces. Voldemort might have a few favs like the old Bella whom he
                      > might have trained personally.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > A-new-face-who-has-to-find-a-penname
                      >
                      > On Wednesday, 14 March 2012, tom1marvoloriddle@... <
                      > tom1marvoloriddle@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hey LS... and anyone can respond to the musings. At any rate Tom is
                      > probably the strongest dueller alive, in magic, reptoire and tactics.
                      > Dumbledore always came close second and those two are suicide for Bella -
                      > while she may be able to wound Dumbledore with a Dark Art, he has fought
                      > Voldemort(not certain if that ever happened in your universe) and
                      > Grindewald. My suspicion is that in third is Harry - his magical strength
                      > is comparable to the Dark Lord's. His poor selection of spells in the past
                      > meant it was 50/50 if he won. If he finds the strength to fire a Killing
                      > Curse (mental strength that is) he jumps to No 2. Deadly and dangerous.
                      > Fourth...Bella and Moody. Bella has a great selection of Dark Arts making
                      > her a offensive nightmare for opponents; she also spent fair amount of time
                      > with Harry giving her insight into real life fighting and Moody is a
                      > grizzled veteran of war - if there is a fight, Moody was there. He in a
                      > duel with Bella...50/50 bar outside inteferance. Finally in the fifth and
                      > last place...may sound random but Amelia Bones. In cannon Voldemort himself
                      > goes after her rather than sending other Death Eaters to do it for him. It
                      > suggests she is probably stronger than we know... whether she is that
                      > strong - don't know.
                      > >
                      > > Bella can take on anyone from Potter/Weasley/Longbottom clan one on one
                      > and possibly groups. She has enough power for it.
                      > > Snape has 80% chance of losing - she would have to be tired or in a
                      > disadvantaged position to even give him the 20% possibility.
                      > > Bella vs. Moody...50/50 and both on a stretcher. Vicious and don't play
                      > fair is common thing for them.
                      > > Bella vs. Death Eaters... most of DE only gain the advantage if the other
                      > side isn't using Dark Arts or is actually a decent dueller. There a rag tag
                      > group of purebloods and such on LV's cause. Ther evictory against Bella
                      > would be based on either numbers/luck or such.
                      > >
                      > > Anyway: new musing. How did he convince Dememntors in canon - the war
                      > went on for ten years so it couldn't have been an easy thing.In second war
                      > the joining of Dementors caused a massive upset - invincible soul suckers
                      > and few people who can cast Patronus Charm... and how did Voldemort stop
                      > them from consuming DE souls or his? How did Ministry control them in the
                      > first place? Thoughts on the matter?
                      > >
                      > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "lord_silvere" <lordsilvere@> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> I'm not sure whether you want me to respond to these musings or not. I
                      > will say that they've been helpful. Firstly, they draw my mind to Delenda.
                      > That is good because scenes have to stew in my mind for a bit before I can
                      > put "on paper" as it were. Secondly, they help me get a feel for what
                      > scenes you want to see. Stuff happens that I don't always cover on stage,
                      > and I am not always sure what you want to see.
                      > >>
                      > >> But anyways . . . . regarding Bellatrix's relative strength in dueling
                      > against other opponents. What do you people think? Who could she take and
                      > who could take her and why?
                      > >>
                      > >> LS
                      > >>
                      > >> --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@"
                      > <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                      > >> >
                      > >> > Lord Voldemort as of current seems to be a Darth Vader like person -
                      > his spells are strenghtened by the pain, but in the ned it makeshim lose
                      > the famous ability to outplan people. Not that Tom Riddle isn't above just
                      > steamrolling over people.
                      > >> >
                      > >> > St Mungo has probably spies from all three major fractions - Order,
                      > Ministry and Death Eater's. Harry Ashworth is a person of interest to all
                      > of them for different reasons. Voldemort has a grudge and the fact that
                      > Harry knows about his Horcruxes, Minister seems to have personal vendetta
                      > against him (unclear what Ministry wants from harry though - we can be
                      > assured it isn't death though. Dumbledore...he seems to have penchant for
                      > having odd agents on his side. Plus he would want Ashworth's intel.
                      > >> >
                      > >> > A magical heptagram...makes sense. Even in real pagan cultures the so
                      > called "second" heptagram represented magical power as well as symbolising
                      > perfection in many Christian denominations. So Voldemort using this to
                      > strenghten his magic...wouldn't be a unexpected factor.
                      > >> >
                      > >> > I'm curious whether horcrux creation drives the user insane or just
                      > numbs their ability to comperhend the emotions of others and kills their
                      > own emotional range.
                      > >> >
                      > >> > Another interesting point is how does Bella measure up against the
                      > wizards of Delenda Est events - we know she is strong, but just how strong?
                      > >> >
                      > >> > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@> wrote:
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > Essentially I meant that any comments I make are in no way trying to
                      > rush an author.
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > I don't know about Voldemort making more Horocruxes but I do think
                      > that some of the reason he isn't stronger was trying to solve the pain and
                      > scarring he has to deal with. In my mind you only have so much soul despite
                      > the fact that Voldemort split it 6 times there has to be an upper limit to
                      > him going completely insane. I also think that since he knew he wanted 7
                      > pieces for the magical benefit that regardless a new horocrux wouldn't be
                      > as effective. That's my personal thoughts on the matter I've always thought
                      > that in order to get the benefit of a mystical 7 that the pieces needed to
                      > be the same size. This means that each piece is like a portion of a
                      > heptagram. If one piece is smaller it leaves a whole in the shape its
                      > better to instead get an deformed hexagram that is unbroken throughout.
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > As far as who is running what in this new ministry we won't know
                      > until we're clued in. I do wonder thought with St. Mungo's being
                      > inacessable to people are potion making is a lucrative hobby for people.
                      > Trained Healers might be practicing on the side for any number of reasons I
                      > would think Harry and Belletrix might meet one and arrange some kind of
                      > deal.
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > gallandro
                      > >> > >
                      > >> > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@"
                      > <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                      > >> > > >
                      > >> > > > First and foremost - Voldemort's "cage" has been rattled. The
                      > question is now - will his fear of Harry will lead to fury taken out on DE
                      > or rather a beserker attack on Ministry. My first bet is it's more likely
                      > that DEs will suffer. Voldemort on panic mode attack is a bad thing ...to
                      > quote Harry "He feels more dangerous now" DH p2(shame it didn't appear in
                      > the book...it makes sense too).
                      > >> > > >
                      > >> > > > How big is the order...It seems to be a family/close associates of
                      > first members recruitment. In the books it was always presented as a small
                      > 30-40 people group. My guess even with losses, it's some round there. DE
                      > numbers...cannot say. Author is quite mum on what Riddle did in the last
                      > twenty years besides war. They seem to consist of a werewolf pack, few
                      > dozen wizards and some giants as well dementors on his side. Though in
                      > wizarding world numbers can mean nothing...the duo fought the war with fair
                      > sucess. Dumbledore and Voldemort are better than any ten base line DE/Order
                      > member.
                      > >> > > >
                      > >> > > > "to criticize our author or his timetable"..umm did you mean "on
                      > his timetable? As long as it's quality and gets completed i have nothing
                      > but time.
                      > >> > > >
                      > >> > > > It's likely Harry or Bella will do something that
                      > connects/intefers/etc with the Ministry. Frankly, it's sooner
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Thomas Pulk
                      I don t know that I agree with this assessment. I will put Dumbledoor and Voldemort as good duelist but I think quite a few people can make them work for it
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                        I don't know that I agree with this assessment. I will put Dumbledoor and Voldemort as good duelist but I think quite a few people can make them work for it enough to label them as the premier 1 and 2 is stretching it [although the Death Stick helps]. It seems that in your story a great number of assailants can overwhelm a powerful dueler so in any true battle having Harry and Belletrix working as a team that wants to help and protect each other might matter as much as magical strength. The other point you've emphasized is the number of offensive and defensive spells available matters; in that case though its never been shown I still think Flitwick should be given greater prominence.

                        My guess in rankings are

                        1. Dumbledoor (go death stick)
                        2. Riddle (though he seems to run away from a lot of fights)
                        3. Moody (situational awareness counts for a lot but does he have the eye?)
                        4. Greyback (I think the fuckers insane enough to worry a lot of people)
                        5. Flitwick (Small mobile and knowledgable)
                        6. Harry (his power makes up for a lot and his repitore of spells grows)
                        7. Snape (he seems to hold a talent in this area)
                        8. Belletrix (can't make our heroine to easy plus she's been training with Harry)
                        9. Macnair (he carries an axe so he obviously feels he can get in close)
                        10. Lestrange (I imagine his psyche and rage has grown and left him bitter and unstable)


                        then not sure but most of the rest I imagine are fairly interchangeable.

                        I do wonder about Frank and Alice Longbottom and how they will stack up though. We know they were Aurors and members of the Order but you could make up anything about them. Although serving as Aurors during the first rise of Voldemort should confer a certain level of ability I think any veterans of this conflict may be better than the previous timeline.

                        Regardless I think that Beletrix is closing the gap and will soon be able to hold her own on the field of battle.

                        gallandro


                        --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@..." <tom1marvoloriddle@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey LS... and anyone can respond to the musings. At any rate Tom is probably the strongest dueller alive, in magic, reptoire and tactics. Dumbledore always came close second and those two are suicide for Bella - while she may be able to wound Dumbledore with a Dark Art, he has fought Voldemort(not certain if that ever happened in your universe) and Grindewald. My suspicion is that in third is Harry - his magical strength is comparable to the Dark Lord's. His poor selection of spells in the past meant it was 50/50 if he won. If he finds the strength to fire a Killing Curse (mental strength that is) he jumps to No 2. Deadly and dangerous. Fourth...Bella and Moody. Bella has a great selection of Dark Arts making her a offensive nightmare for opponents; she also spent fair amount of time with Harry giving her insight into real life fighting and Moody is a grizzled veteran of war - if there is a fight, Moody was there. He in a duel with Bella...50/50 bar outside inteferance. Finally in the fifth and last place...may sound random but Amelia Bones. In cannon Voldemort himself goes after her rather than sending other Death Eaters to do it for him. It suggests she is probably stronger than we know... whether she is that strong - don't know.
                        >
                        > Bella can take on anyone from Potter/Weasley/Longbottom clan one on one and possibly groups. She has enough power for it.
                        > Snape has 80% chance of losing - she would have to be tired or in a disadvantaged position to even give him the 20% possibility.
                        > Bella vs. Moody...50/50 and both on a stretcher. Vicious and don't play fair is common thing for them.
                        > Bella vs. Death Eaters... most of DE only gain the advantage if the other side isn't using Dark Arts or is actually a decent dueller. There a rag tag group of purebloods and such on LV's cause. Ther evictory against Bella would be based on either numbers/luck or such.
                        >
                        > Anyway: new musing. How did he convince Dememntors in canon - the war went on for ten years so it couldn't have been an easy thing.In second war the joining of Dementors caused a massive upset - invincible soul suckers and few people who can cast Patronus Charm... and how did Voldemort stop them from consuming DE souls or his? How did Ministry control them in the first place? Thoughts on the matter?
                        >
                        > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "lord_silvere" <lordsilvere@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I'm not sure whether you want me to respond to these musings or not. I will say that they've been helpful. Firstly, they draw my mind to Delenda. That is good because scenes have to stew in my mind for a bit before I can put "on paper" as it were. Secondly, they help me get a feel for what scenes you want to see. Stuff happens that I don't always cover on stage, and I am not always sure what you want to see.
                        > >
                        > > But anyways . . . . regarding Bellatrix's relative strength in dueling against other opponents. What do you people think? Who could she take and who could take her and why?
                        > >
                        > > LS
                        > >
                      • tom1marvoloriddle@ymail.com
                        Riddle running from fights - he is a thanatophobic so I m not surprised. LS hasn t clarified his stand on Hallows (I still can t a see any logic behind them
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                          Riddle running from fights - he is a thanatophobic so I'm not surprised. LS hasn't clarified his stand on Hallows (I still can't a see any logic behind them besides being JKR solution to the fact that Harry (canon) couldn't match Riddle in straight on fight. Even with his tendency to retreat we know he was fighting and holding Slughorn, Kingsley and McGonagall at once and then overpowered them in rage. Top Auror, one of the strongest witches of the time and ..Potions Professor with questionable knowledge of Dark Arts. I wonder what DUmbledore vs. L. Voldemort without the Elder Wand would look like. Makes you think... who is stronger?

                          Greyback...hmm, I don't know. He isn't actually a Eater in canon - he is just there for the ride. He is probably deserves No.4 when in werewolf form, but while implied and shown as fairly powerful magically and physically (non-were form) in DH, we have no evidence of him being that powerful - so I would downgrade him to 7,8.

                          McNair...not sure where that came from. He is a bloodthirsty eater and can use an axe, but even magically he wasn't ever shown to be a top dog...he was a early Eater even in canon but never joined Inner Circle, so not sure how he made it to No.8.

                          Flitwick being that high... okay I can see that happening. Not sure if more power than Chosen One, but it's up the author. ¬_¬
                          --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I don't know that I agree with this assessment. I will put Dumbledoor and Voldemort as good duelist but I think quite a few people can make them work for it enough to label them as the premier 1 and 2 is stretching it [although the Death Stick helps]. It seems that in your story a great number of assailants can overwhelm a powerful dueler so in any true battle having Harry and Belletrix working as a team that wants to help and protect each other might matter as much as magical strength. The other point you've emphasized is the number of offensive and defensive spells available matters; in that case though its never been shown I still think Flitwick should be given greater prominence.
                          >
                          > My guess in rankings are
                          >
                          > 1. Dumbledoor (go death stick)
                          > 2. Riddle (though he seems to run away from a lot of fights)
                          > 3. Moody (situational awareness counts for a lot but does he have the eye?)
                          > 4. Greyback (I think the fuckers insane enough to worry a lot of people)
                          > 5. Flitwick (Small mobile and knowledgable)
                          > 6. Harry (his power makes up for a lot and his repitore of spells grows)
                          > 7. Snape (he seems to hold a talent in this area)
                          > 8. Belletrix (can't make our heroine to easy plus she's been training with Harry)
                          > 9. Macnair (he carries an axe so he obviously feels he can get in close)
                          > 10. Lestrange (I imagine his psyche and rage has grown and left him bitter and unstable)
                          >
                          >
                          > then not sure but most of the rest I imagine are fairly interchangeable.
                          >
                          > I do wonder about Frank and Alice Longbottom and how they will stack up though. We know they were Aurors and members of the Order but you could make up anything about them. Although serving as Aurors during the first rise of Voldemort should confer a certain level of ability I think any veterans of this conflict may be better than the previous timeline.
                          >
                          > Regardless I think that Beletrix is closing the gap and will soon be able to hold her own on the field of battle.
                          >
                          > gallandro
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@" <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hey LS... and anyone can respond to the musings. At any rate Tom is probably the strongest dueller alive, in magic, reptoire and tactics. Dumbledore always came close second and those two are suicide for Bella - while she may be able to wound Dumbledore with a Dark Art, he has fought Voldemort(not certain if that ever happened in your universe) and Grindewald. My suspicion is that in third is Harry - his magical strength is comparable to the Dark Lord's. His poor selection of spells in the past meant it was 50/50 if he won. If he finds the strength to fire a Killing Curse (mental strength that is) he jumps to No 2. Deadly and dangerous. Fourth...Bella and Moody. Bella has a great selection of Dark Arts making her a offensive nightmare for opponents; she also spent fair amount of time with Harry giving her insight into real life fighting and Moody is a grizzled veteran of war - if there is a fight, Moody was there. He in a duel with Bella...50/50 bar outside inteferance. Finally in the fifth and last place...may sound random but Amelia Bones. In cannon Voldemort himself goes after her rather than sending other Death Eaters to do it for him. It suggests she is probably stronger than we know... whether she is that strong - don't know.
                          > >
                          > > Bella can take on anyone from Potter/Weasley/Longbottom clan one on one and possibly groups. She has enough power for it.
                          > > Snape has 80% chance of losing - she would have to be tired or in a disadvantaged position to even give him the 20% possibility.
                          > > Bella vs. Moody...50/50 and both on a stretcher. Vicious and don't play fair is common thing for them.
                          > > Bella vs. Death Eaters... most of DE only gain the advantage if the other side isn't using Dark Arts or is actually a decent dueller. There a rag tag group of purebloods and such on LV's cause. Ther evictory against Bella would be based on either numbers/luck or such.
                          > >
                          > > Anyway: new musing. How did he convince Dememntors in canon - the war went on for ten years so it couldn't have been an easy thing.In second war the joining of Dementors caused a massive upset - invincible soul suckers and few people who can cast Patronus Charm... and how did Voldemort stop them from consuming DE souls or his? How did Ministry control them in the first place? Thoughts on the matter?
                          > >
                          > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "lord_silvere" <lordsilvere@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I'm not sure whether you want me to respond to these musings or not. I will say that they've been helpful. Firstly, they draw my mind to Delenda. That is good because scenes have to stew in my mind for a bit before I can put "on paper" as it were. Secondly, they help me get a feel for what scenes you want to see. Stuff happens that I don't always cover on stage, and I am not always sure what you want to see.
                          > > >
                          > > > But anyways . . . . regarding Bellatrix's relative strength in dueling against other opponents. What do you people think? Who could she take and who could take her and why?
                          > > >
                          > > > LS
                          > > >
                          >
                        • tom1marvoloriddle@ymail.com
                          Correction: LS hasn t clarified his/hers stand...my bad.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                            Correction: LS hasn't clarified his/hers stand...my bad.

                            --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@..." <tom1marvoloriddle@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Riddle running from fights - he is a thanatophobic so I'm not surprised. LS hasn't clarified his stand on Hallows (I still can't a see any logic behind them besides being JKR solution to the fact that Harry (canon) couldn't match Riddle in straight on fight. Even with his tendency to retreat we know he was fighting and holding Slughorn, Kingsley and McGonagall at once and then overpowered them in rage. Top Auror, one of the strongest witches of the time and ..Potions Professor with questionable knowledge of Dark Arts. I wonder what DUmbledore vs. L. Voldemort without the Elder Wand would look like. Makes you think... who is stronger?
                            >
                            > Greyback...hmm, I don't know. He isn't actually a Eater in canon - he is just there for the ride. He is probably deserves No.4 when in werewolf form, but while implied and shown as fairly powerful magically and physically (non-were form) in DH, we have no evidence of him being that powerful - so I would downgrade him to 7,8.
                            >
                            > McNair...not sure where that came from. He is a bloodthirsty eater and can use an axe, but even magically he wasn't ever shown to be a top dog...he was a early Eater even in canon but never joined Inner Circle, so not sure how he made it to No.8.
                            >
                            > Flitwick being that high... okay I can see that happening. Not sure if more power than Chosen One, but it's up the author. ¬_¬
                            > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I don't know that I agree with this assessment. I will put Dumbledoor and Voldemort as good duelist but I think quite a few people can make them work for it enough to label them as the premier 1 and 2 is stretching it [although the Death Stick helps]. It seems that in your story a great number of assailants can overwhelm a powerful dueler so in any true battle having Harry and Belletrix working as a team that wants to help and protect each other might matter as much as magical strength. The other point you've emphasized is the number of offensive and defensive spells available matters; in that case though its never been shown I still think Flitwick should be given greater prominence.
                            > >
                            > > My guess in rankings are
                            > >
                            > > 1. Dumbledoor (go death stick)
                            > > 2. Riddle (though he seems to run away from a lot of fights)
                            > > 3. Moody (situational awareness counts for a lot but does he have the eye?)
                            > > 4. Greyback (I think the fuckers insane enough to worry a lot of people)
                            > > 5. Flitwick (Small mobile and knowledgable)
                            > > 6. Harry (his power makes up for a lot and his repitore of spells grows)
                            > > 7. Snape (he seems to hold a talent in this area)
                            > > 8. Belletrix (can't make our heroine to easy plus she's been training with Harry)
                            > > 9. Macnair (he carries an axe so he obviously feels he can get in close)
                            > > 10. Lestrange (I imagine his psyche and rage has grown and left him bitter and unstable)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > then not sure but most of the rest I imagine are fairly interchangeable.
                            > >
                            > > I do wonder about Frank and Alice Longbottom and how they will stack up though. We know they were Aurors and members of the Order but you could make up anything about them. Although serving as Aurors during the first rise of Voldemort should confer a certain level of ability I think any veterans of this conflict may be better than the previous timeline.
                            > >
                            > > Regardless I think that Beletrix is closing the gap and will soon be able to hold her own on the field of battle.
                            > >
                            > > gallandro
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "tom1marvoloriddle@" <tom1marvoloriddle@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hey LS... and anyone can respond to the musings. At any rate Tom is probably the strongest dueller alive, in magic, reptoire and tactics. Dumbledore always came close second and those two are suicide for Bella - while she may be able to wound Dumbledore with a Dark Art, he has fought Voldemort(not certain if that ever happened in your universe) and Grindewald. My suspicion is that in third is Harry - his magical strength is comparable to the Dark Lord's. His poor selection of spells in the past meant it was 50/50 if he won. If he finds the strength to fire a Killing Curse (mental strength that is) he jumps to No 2. Deadly and dangerous. Fourth...Bella and Moody. Bella has a great selection of Dark Arts making her a offensive nightmare for opponents; she also spent fair amount of time with Harry giving her insight into real life fighting and Moody is a grizzled veteran of war - if there is a fight, Moody was there. He in a duel with Bella...50/50 bar outside inteferance. Finally in the fifth and last place...may sound random but Amelia Bones. In cannon Voldemort himself goes after her rather than sending other Death Eaters to do it for him. It suggests she is probably stronger than we know... whether she is that strong - don't know.
                            > > >
                            > > > Bella can take on anyone from Potter/Weasley/Longbottom clan one on one and possibly groups. She has enough power for it.
                            > > > Snape has 80% chance of losing - she would have to be tired or in a disadvantaged position to even give him the 20% possibility.
                            > > > Bella vs. Moody...50/50 and both on a stretcher. Vicious and don't play fair is common thing for them.
                            > > > Bella vs. Death Eaters... most of DE only gain the advantage if the other side isn't using Dark Arts or is actually a decent dueller. There a rag tag group of purebloods and such on LV's cause. Ther evictory against Bella would be based on either numbers/luck or such.
                            > > >
                            > > > Anyway: new musing. How did he convince Dememntors in canon - the war went on for ten years so it couldn't have been an easy thing.In second war the joining of Dementors caused a massive upset - invincible soul suckers and few people who can cast Patronus Charm... and how did Voldemort stop them from consuming DE souls or his? How did Ministry control them in the first place? Thoughts on the matter?
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "lord_silvere" <lordsilvere@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I'm not sure whether you want me to respond to these musings or not. I will say that they've been helpful. Firstly, they draw my mind to Delenda. That is good because scenes have to stew in my mind for a bit before I can put "on paper" as it were. Secondly, they help me get a feel for what scenes you want to see. Stuff happens that I don't always cover on stage, and I am not always sure what you want to see.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > But anyways . . . . regarding Bellatrix's relative strength in dueling against other opponents. What do you people think? Who could she take and who could take her and why?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > LS
                            > > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • wiljoy
                            I agree. I m honestly surprised by how many people want Harry to reveal himself to the order. However, I m also not a big fan of the revelations point in
                            Message 13 of 24 , May 1, 2012
                              I agree. I'm honestly surprised by how many people want Harry to reveal himself to the order. However, I'm also not a big fan of the "revelations" point in time travel fics for a lot of reasons.

                              Foremost of these reasons is that most authors just do it wrong. One of Harry's greatest advantages when he goes back in time is the fact that he has foreknowledge of the events that will occur. I've seen the most skilled authors crash and burn when writing the big reveal because they do it in such a way that makes Harry seem vulnerable and ordinary...(i.e. he's now on even ground with everyone else in the altered timeline.) Now while I would normally respect the author's choice to move the plot however he sees fit, I feel that the big reveal in the middle of the story is a big mistake. And this is largely due to a loss of narrative coherence (in my opinion). The author would spend a rather large amount of time characterizing Harry through the use of his "foreknowledge" that by removing his cunning advantage over everyone else (like telling everyone he is from the future), the character that the author spent the entire story creating just falls apart at the seams...in which case, the entire story is the author trying to piece Harry back together into the character he was BEFORE the big reveal. Likewise, this advantage that Harry has over his peers is a major plot device, one that readers have gotten used to seeing and something would be off if it were missing. (Or it could be that we just like Harry showing up Professor Dumbledore at every corner...or screwing around with other characters with "privileged information...I'll let you take your pick) This is my biggest concern if silvere were to write the revelations at this point in time. So that said, I trust your judgement and just ask you to take care when writing it.

                              (I personally prefer a slow reveal: first he reveals that he is alive. And then that he is the Lord Black in the prophecy, and then after he kills Voldemort, or right before the "Final Battle," he tells a select few people like Lily that he is Harry Potter from another timeline. These two options give credibile reasoning for Harry to tell. The first is that the truth would not affect the story any longer because the main antagonist is dead. The second, is that he is saying his final good-byes as a way to ensure that his secret won't be lost. Telling Lily is especially meaningful in this respect.)


                              --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > So I thought I would read the review over at ff.net and see what others had to say about everything and I was surprised by a few things.
                              >
                              > I am shocked how many people are advocating that Harry tell Dumbledoor and the Order everything about who he is. I never even thought that was in the works for your story and was thrown for a loop. I think some of this comes from another of my favorite stories A BLACK COMEDY by nonjon in this story Harry only tells about his past when everything blows up in his face he had taken the opportunity to finally make a life for himself outside of everything that he knew. I just assumed that Silvere was doing something similar.
                              >
                              > I also feel the need to remind people that we know nothing of Harry's former universe. Remember other than the horocrux's and a general sense that most people died after the death eater squads were sent after them. Harry was in a cell and didn't know of the events that are cannon so any things that seem odd or out of character can be from any number of things not just because the author made a mistake. JKR's universe has many little flaws that make the creation of fanfiction so easy to assume everything should be the same is ridiculous.
                              >
                              > I will say that I was wondering something else we know Harry and Bella have those rings was Harry checking up on his new wife in her meetings? I would think this would be a sensible precaution despite them being the "good guys" Bella seems like someone to hedge her bets and try to have a contingency plan. In the same line will Harry try to spy on the Order through Lily. And has Dumbledoor taken a look at her ring since the whole rebirth of Ashworth?
                              >
                              > Many people have commented on how much Silvere has grown as an author since Earl of the North and while I haven't really thought about it I want to add my voice to this as well. Your stories have always been good but looking back your skills have definitely improved and I can only hope to follow your efforts for many years to come. (Heck I hope you do continue and eventually make money on your efforts so I can buy books from someone I know I will like.)
                              >
                              > The waiting on chapters is something I have grown accustomed to in my time in fandom I have seen an unfortunate number of worthy stories shelved and abandoned and anytime an author continues something I've learned to be grateful and try my hardest to not be disappointed if it never continues.
                              >
                              > gallandro
                              >
                            • Thomas Pulk
                              I m glad someone is with me on not having a big moment that Harry just announces who he is. I will say that while the slow reveal seems feasible I think my
                              Message 14 of 24 , May 2, 2012
                                I'm glad someone is with me on not having a big moment that Harry just announces who he is. I will say that while the slow reveal seems feasible I think my preference is for a deductive reveal. (Where the Order eventually piece together who he is with Harry not helping them but not going out of his way to hide it either.)

                                The hints are there if the Order would sit down and look at them, but I think Rose will be the one who figures it out first with her gifts and logical views. Maybe Hermione but she would need to get over her ideas that if something is impossible it can still happen with magic. I don't really see anyone just coming out and shouting that Harry is Lily's son lost through time-travel twice; even the magical purebloods probably won't believe that.

                                Only Rose, Ginny, Neville, and Leo are certain that Ashworth is still alive. Voldemort suspects that he either is currently or his actions have allowed someone to discover his secrets and is trying to stop him. (That's why the Death Eaters attacked Grimwald Place to grab the other horocrux.) The Death Eaters know that the "ghost" scares their master and his actions against their brethren have created a state of terror. The Order is 80% sure that Ashworth is simply a phantom created by Bellatrix and used as a distraction. Only Rose is in a position to make the deductive leap without first needing to find out Harry is alive.

                                We know that Bella told the Dursley's she's their niece (in a twisted roundabout way). With everyone trying to get information about Harry Andrews and now Bella someone will get this clue sooner or later. This will create a lot of confusion as Lily and the Order start looking for a link that doesn't really exist. I think someone will wonder if anything is hid about Lily's family (we don't really know about anyone but Petunia.) I also think Lily might make the leap that she is related to Ashworth and that's why he gave her the ring (but not as mother and son.)

                                We also know the prophecy and that with Bella's control of the Black Fortune she is a candidate for the "Daughter of Stars". However the prophecy also needs a Lord Black, I think that Dumbledoor will start trying to push Bella towards someone to create his own Lord Black and make it fit the prophecy (you can just imagine what Bella might do to some of the Order's chosen suitors.)

                                Now that another it appears that Bella might just choose the new Lord Black (or even that Ashworth was the Lord Black and passed the title to someone the Order doesn't know about). I think that soon we will see inquiries into if Harry was Lord Black and how it is possible soon. From that point Dumbledoor will start to search for Ashworth's heir for Lord Black or will come back to the conclusion that Harry Ashworth is alive.

                                Looking at the prophecy Dumbledoor might actually come to believe that it is Ashworth's ghost itself that is the subject of the prophecy. (It uses the word "haunt" and states "one must die at the hands of the other, for neither can live while the other survives".) An interpretation is that Ashworth was killed and his shade which now has reappeared is all that is stopping Voldemort from complete power. The prophecy doesn't state that the survivor needs to be living just that while they both are around neither can "live". If Dumbledoor or Voldemort start to believe that Ashworth's ghost is the subject of the prophecy I wonder what will happen when necromancy starts to get involved. (I DO BELIEVE THIS WAS DELIBERATE BY SLIVERE)

                                I also am wondering what Harry's and Bella's reaction to the prophecy is going to be. Was Harry aware of the old prophecy and was is the same from his original timeline? Will the change surprise him is the fact that he is a subject in a prophecy shock him more? Also will Bella use the knowledge of what it might mean as leverage over the Order?

                                Either way I think once Harry and Bella learn of the prophecy that they will reevaluate how they should interact with the Order. Would it help or hurt to be unmasked if as soon as they do it means their expected to end the war.

                                Love to here people's thoughts

                                gallandro
                              • wiljoy
                                I will be taking a page from Silvere s book and write my comments below in bold. Like so... ... announces who he is. I will say that while the slow reveal
                                Message 15 of 24 , May 2, 2012

                                  I will be taking a page from Silvere's book and write my comments below in bold. Like so...

                                  --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I'm glad someone is with me on not having a big moment that Harry just announces who he is. I will say that while the slow reveal seems feasible I think my preference is for a deductive reveal. (Where the Order eventually piece together who he is with Harry not helping them but not going out of his way to hide it either.)

                                  A deductive reveal is absolutely fantastic if it could be properly pulled off. Again, my fear is if the scene is done wrong, the story is ruined. Although, Silvere has already done a marvelous job when writing Bellatrix's deduction of Harry's identity so that isn't much of a fear.
                                  >
                                  > The hints are there if the Order would sit down and look at them, but I think Rose will be the one who figures it out first with her gifts and logical views. Maybe Hermione but she would need to get over her ideas that if something is impossible it can still happen with magic. I don't really see anyone just coming out and shouting that Harry is Lily's son lost through time-travel twice; even the magical purebloods probably won't believe that.

                                  That said, I'm slightlly skeptical of either of those two characters you mentioned above making the leap of faith necessary to deduce that Harry is a time-traveler. Rose would be more likely of the two because for whatever reason, she has fortune telling capabilities. (She's also a spoiled little brat from the brief appearances that she has made in her interactions with Bellatrix so I would personally be rubbed the wrong way if she is the one who figured it out...Harry would never hear the end of it). Hermione has once again been characterized as the "stubborn scientist" meaning that she will NEVER accept time traveling as an option. Remember, the only form of time traveling the Wizarding World has scene is through the use of the Time Turner. In keeping with canon, (or Hermione's stubborn views) time is immutable. (You go back in time to save your mom from certain death only to realize that you had already saved her and you just need to go back to ensure that it happens.) Hermione will never accept the fact that Harry traveled back in time and shifted the timeline into a complete alternate reality.


                                  >
                                  > Only Rose, Ginny, Neville, and Leo are certain that Ashworth is still alive. Voldemort suspects that he either is currently or his actions have allowed someone to discover his secrets and is trying to stop him. (That's why the Death Eaters attacked Grimwald Place to grab the other horocrux.) The Death Eaters know that the "ghost" scares their master and his actions against their brethren have created a state of terror. The Order is 80% sure that Ashworth is simply a phantom created by Bellatrix and used as a distraction. Only Rose is in a position to make the deductive leap without first needing to find out Harry is alive.

                                  Ultimately though, I think the problem with having someone "figure it out" or deduce that much information (i.e. Harry Potter is Lily's son who time traveled twice and changing the timeline permanently) is that she would seem is like a godly figure....or Einstein times 10. It's one thing to have Bellatrix figure it out because she spends so much time with Harry (and she was already working with the assumption that he wasn't from this timeline), its another to have someone piece together a jigsaw puzzle where the final product is completely nonsensical...(imagine it as piecing together one of Piccaso's paintings...its doable but you must be completely doped up and drunk or flat out insane to be able to do it without first seeing what the final result looked like). And let's be honest, even if Rose has Seer-like abilities, that's quite a stretch for her to make...though she seems the most likely because she's always been the one to make profound conclusions.
                                  >
                                  > We know that Bella told the Dursley's she's their niece (in a twisted roundabout way). With everyone trying to get information about Harry Andrews and now Bella someone will get this clue sooner or later. This will create a lot of confusion as Lily and the Order start looking for a link that doesn't really exist. I think someone will wonder if anything is hid about Lily's family (we don't really know about anyone but Petunia.) I also think Lily might make the leap that she is related to Ashworth and that's why he gave her the ring (but not as mother and son.)

                                  I actually agree with this part the most. Lily is a far better candidate to make the leap that Harry is alive. This is for two reasons. The first is that she is one of the only people to have known "Harry Ashworth" in any meaningful way back when she was in Hogwarts. (She had a crush on him so she took far more interest in him than anyone else.) It is my opinion that she will eventually piece together a couple of facts. "Illusio Spiritum" doesn't quite allow for Harry's ghost to speak (or move quite as fluidly) as astro-projection (the means by which Harry first made contact with Voldemort in the new time...for which Lily was present). The second reason is that she is the one that seems to hold out the most hope that her old professor is alive. That said, she is also the most likely to realize a few inconsistent facts with "Illusio Spiritum." Bellatrix was present with Voldemort under the guise of Narcissa Malfoy when Harry's ghost appeared. Is it likely that Bellatrix would have taught one of the kids present how to cast that spell? Improbable. "lllusio Spiritum" maybe make a great illusion...but it also cannot cast fiendfyre. And unless Rose, Leo, Ginny, or Neville suddenly received darker tendencies...she will at least suspect someone extremely powerful working with Bellatrix. That said, it is far more likely that Ashworth is alive than to believe there is some as-of-yet unknown third party that is in the shadows.

                                  As for making the jump that Harry is related to her...I think I'll withold judgement on this fact. I'm a huge fan of poetry and it would be most poetic and appropriate if Lily is the one to discover her relationship with Harry. So anything conlusion I make would be biased.
                                  >
                                  > We also know the prophecy and that with Bella's control of the Black Fortune she is a candidate for the "Daughter of Stars". However the prophecy also needs a Lord Black, I think that Dumbledoor will start trying to push Bella towards someone to create his own Lord Black and make it fit the prophecy (you can just imagine what Bella might do to some of the Order's chosen suitors.)

                                  ROFL. This is just plain hilarious though I think this might be wishful thinking on our part. But we can hold out hope.
                                  >
                                  > Now that another it appears that Bella might just choose the new Lord Black (or even that Ashworth was the Lord Black and passed the title to someone the Order doesn't know about). I think that soon we will see inquiries into if Harry was Lord Black and how it is possible soon. From that point Dumbledoor will start to search for Ashworth's heir for Lord Black or will come back to the conclusion that Harry Ashworth is alive.

                                  Again...really doubtful. Dumbledore is extremely stupid in this fic...it is most unusual that a genius like himself would have all the pieces and still come the wrong conclusion and stubbornly stick with the wrong conclusion.
                                  >
                                  > Looking at the prophecy Dumbledoor might actually come to believe that it is Ashworth's ghost itself that is the subject of the prophecy. (It uses the word "haunt" and states "one must die at the hands of the other, for neither can live while the other survives".) An interpretation is that Ashworth was killed and his shade which now has reappeared is all that is stopping Voldemort from complete power. The prophecy doesn't state that the survivor needs to be living just that while they both are around neither can "live". If Dumbledoor or Voldemort start to believe that Ashworth's ghost is the subject of the prophecy I wonder what will happen when necromancy starts to get involved. (I DO BELIEVE THIS WAS DELIBERATE BY SLIVERE)

                                  This is more likely...(I'm skeptical on the necromancy part...though again...see above comments on having Harry die and come back to life to spook Riddle...). I fully believe that it is within this characterization of Dumbledore to think that Ashworth's ghost is the subject of an all important prophecy...
                                  >
                                  > I also am wondering what Harry's and Bella's reaction to the prophecy is going to be. Was Harry aware of the old prophecy and was is the same from his original timeline? Will the change surprise him is the fact that he is a subject in a prophecy shock him more? Also will Bella use the knowledge of what it might mean as leverage over the Order?

                                  I am of the opinion that Bella will try to leverage the fact that she is the DAUGHTER OF THE STARS against the Order. Remember that it is Bella's belief that an army is only as strong as its leaders. So she will undoubtedly use this information to her own gain. 
                                  >
                                  > Either way I think once Harry and Bella learn of the prophecy that they will reevaluate how they should interact with the Order. Would it help or hurt to be unmasked if as soon as they do it means their expected to end the war.

                                  I don't think there will be much change in how they will act...see above. I think it is more likely that Bella will simply use this fact to bring the Order and Dumbledore in line with her own plans. (As far as Harry's views on this...I'm of the opinion that he is has been...(excuse the term)...pussy-whipped. Bella is the expert on politics and Harry will more than likely defer to her in such matters.

                                   

                                  Anyways, that's my take on the situation. Would love to hear people's comments. Cheers!


                                  >
                                  > Love to here people's thoughts
                                  >
                                  > gallandro
                                  >

                                • efpabon
                                  One of the things I admire about LS s writing style is his ability to keep both his prose and plot progression very concise and clean. Verbosity and a large
                                  Message 16 of 24 , May 2, 2012
                                    One of the things I admire about LS's writing style is his ability to keep both his prose and plot progression very concise and clean. Verbosity and a large word count do not necessarily make a story good. In my mind the question of whether or not to reveal Harry's Time Travel status hinges on one question...

                                    What value does it add to the story?

                                    Unfortunately for me I can't see that it really adds anything to the story. Any attachment or feelings between them would almost certainly have to be manufactured by the author and in my opinion would almost certainly ring false. They have never known one another, other than some sense of nostalgia on Harry's part there is no actual basis for any feelings other than being creeped out. So what would be the point? I can't see it being believable for any of the characters to some how figure out that they are time travelers.

                                    For me the fact that he is actually alive will be big enough of big reveal. Although, I could definitely visualize ending the story with a comedic scene where Bella asks Lily if she would like Bella to start calling her Mother... :-)

                                    --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "wiljoy" <wilson.y.j.louie@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I will be taking a page from Silvere's book and write my comments below
                                    > in bold. Like so...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I'm glad someone is with me on not having a big moment that Harry just
                                    > announces who he is. I will say that while the slow reveal seems
                                    > feasible I think my preference is for a deductive reveal. (Where the
                                    > Order eventually piece together who he is with Harry not helping them
                                    > but not going out of his way to hide it either.)
                                    >
                                    > A deductive reveal is absolutely fantastic if it could be properly
                                    > pulled off. Again, my fear is if the scene is done wrong, the story is
                                    > ruined. Although, Silvere has already done a marvelous job when writing
                                    > Bellatrix's deduction of Harry's identity so that isn't much of a fear.
                                    > >
                                    > > The hints are there if the Order would sit down and look at them, but
                                    > I think Rose will be the one who figures it out first with her gifts and
                                    > logical views. Maybe Hermione but she would need to get over her ideas
                                    > that if something is impossible it can still happen with magic. I don't
                                    > really see anyone just coming out and shouting that Harry is Lily's son
                                    > lost through time-travel twice; even the magical purebloods probably
                                    > won't believe that.
                                    >
                                    > That said, I'm slightlly skeptical of either of those two characters you
                                    > mentioned above making the leap of faith necessary to deduce that Harry
                                    > is a time-traveler. Rose would be more likely of the two because for
                                    > whatever reason, she has fortune telling capabilities. (She's also a
                                    > spoiled little brat from the brief appearances that she has made in her
                                    > interactions with Bellatrix so I would personally be rubbed the wrong
                                    > way if she is the one who figured it out...Harry would never hear the
                                    > end of it). Hermione has once again been characterized as the "stubborn
                                    > scientist" meaning that she will NEVER accept time traveling as an
                                    > option. Remember, the only form of time traveling the Wizarding World
                                    > has scene is through the use of the Time Turner. In keeping with canon,
                                    > (or Hermione's stubborn views) time is immutable. (You go back in time
                                    > to save your mom from certain death only to realize that you had already
                                    > saved her and you just need to go back to ensure that it happens.)
                                    > Hermione will never accept the fact that Harry traveled back in time and
                                    > shifted the timeline into a complete alternate reality.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > Only Rose, Ginny, Neville, and Leo are certain that Ashworth is still
                                    > alive. Voldemort suspects that he either is currently or his actions
                                    > have allowed someone to discover his secrets and is trying to stop him.
                                    > (That's why the Death Eaters attacked Grimwald Place to grab the other
                                    > horocrux.) The Death Eaters know that the "ghost" scares their master
                                    > and his actions against their brethren have created a state of terror.
                                    > The Order is 80% sure that Ashworth is simply a phantom created by
                                    > Bellatrix and used as a distraction. Only Rose is in a position to make
                                    > the deductive leap without first needing to find out Harry is alive.
                                    >
                                    > Ultimately though, I think the problem with having someone "figure it
                                    > out" or deduce that much information (i.e. Harry Potter is Lily's son
                                    > who time traveled twice and changing the timeline permanently) is that
                                    > she would seem is like a godly figure....or Einstein times 10. It's one
                                    > thing to have Bellatrix figure it out because she spends so much time
                                    > with Harry (and she was already working with the assumption that he
                                    > wasn't from this timeline), its another to have someone piece together a
                                    > jigsaw puzzle where the final product is completely
                                    > nonsensical...(imagine it as piecing together one of Piccaso's
                                    > paintings...its doable but you must be completely doped up and drunk or
                                    > flat out insane to be able to do it without first seeing what the final
                                    > result looked like). And let's be honest, even if Rose has Seer-like
                                    > abilities, that's quite a stretch for her to make...though she seems the
                                    > most likely because she's always been the one to make profound
                                    > conclusions.
                                    > >
                                    > > We know that Bella told the Dursley's she's their niece (in a twisted
                                    > roundabout way). With everyone trying to get information about Harry
                                    > Andrews and now Bella someone will get this clue sooner or later. This
                                    > will create a lot of confusion as Lily and the Order start looking for a
                                    > link that doesn't really exist. I think someone will wonder if anything
                                    > is hid about Lily's family (we don't really know about anyone but
                                    > Petunia.) I also think Lily might make the leap that she is related to
                                    > Ashworth and that's why he gave her the ring (but not as mother and
                                    > son.)
                                    >
                                    > I actually agree with this part the most. Lily is a far better candidate
                                    > to make the leap that Harry is alive. This is for two reasons. The first
                                    > is that she is one of the only people to have known "Harry Ashworth" in
                                    > any meaningful way back when she was in Hogwarts. (She had a crush on
                                    > him so she took far more interest in him than anyone else.) It is my
                                    > opinion that she will eventually piece together a couple of facts.
                                    > "Illusio Spiritum" doesn't quite allow for Harry's ghost to speak (or
                                    > move quite as fluidly) as astro-projection (the means by which Harry
                                    > first made contact with Voldemort in the new time...for which Lily was
                                    > present). The second reason is that she is the one that seems to hold
                                    > out the most hope that her old professor is alive. That said, she is
                                    > also the most likely to realize a few inconsistent facts with "Illusio
                                    > Spiritum." Bellatrix was present with Voldemort under the guise of
                                    > Narcissa Malfoy when Harry's ghost appeared. Is it likely that Bellatrix
                                    > would have taught one of the kids present how to cast that spell?
                                    > Improbable. "lllusio Spiritum" maybe make a great illusion...but it also
                                    > cannot cast fiendfyre. And unless Rose, Leo, Ginny, or Neville suddenly
                                    > received darker tendencies...she will at least suspect someone extremely
                                    > powerful working with Bellatrix. That said, it is far more likely that
                                    > Ashworth is alive than to believe there is some as-of-yet unknown third
                                    > party that is in the shadows.
                                    >
                                    > As for making the jump that Harry is related to her...I think I'll
                                    > withold judgement on this fact. I'm a huge fan of poetry and it would be
                                    > most poetic and appropriate if Lily is the one to discover her
                                    > relationship with Harry. So anything conlusion I make would be biased.
                                    > >
                                    > > We also know the prophecy and that with Bella's control of the Black
                                    > Fortune she is a candidate for the "Daughter of Stars". However the
                                    > prophecy also needs a Lord Black, I think that Dumbledoor will start
                                    > trying to push Bella towards someone to create his own Lord Black and
                                    > make it fit the prophecy (you can just imagine what Bella might do to
                                    > some of the Order's chosen suitors.)
                                    >
                                    > ROFL. This is just plain hilarious though I think this might be wishful
                                    > thinking on our part. But we can hold out hope.
                                    > >
                                    > > Now that another it appears that Bella might just choose the new Lord
                                    > Black (or even that Ashworth was the Lord Black and passed the title to
                                    > someone the Order doesn't know about). I think that soon we will see
                                    > inquiries into if Harry was Lord Black and how it is possible soon. From
                                    > that point Dumbledoor will start to search for Ashworth's heir for Lord
                                    > Black or will come back to the conclusion that Harry Ashworth is alive.
                                    >
                                    > Again...really doubtful. Dumbledore is extremely stupid in this fic...it
                                    > is most unusual that a genius like himself would have all the pieces and
                                    > still come the wrong conclusion and stubbornly stick with the wrong
                                    > conclusion.
                                    > >
                                    > > Looking at the prophecy Dumbledoor might actually come to believe that
                                    > it is Ashworth's ghost itself that is the subject of the prophecy. (It
                                    > uses the word "haunt" and states "one must die at the hands of the
                                    > other, for neither can live while the other survives".) An
                                    > interpretation is that Ashworth was killed and his shade which now has
                                    > reappeared is all that is stopping Voldemort from complete power. The
                                    > prophecy doesn't state that the survivor needs to be living just that
                                    > while they both are around neither can "live". If Dumbledoor or
                                    > Voldemort start to believe that Ashworth's ghost is the subject of the
                                    > prophecy I wonder what will happen when necromancy starts to get
                                    > involved. (I DO BELIEVE THIS WAS DELIBERATE BY SLIVERE)
                                    >
                                    > This is more likely...(I'm skeptical on the necromancy part...though
                                    > again...see above comments on having Harry die and come back to life to
                                    > spook Riddle...). I fully believe that it is within this
                                    > characterization of Dumbledore to think that Ashworth's ghost is the
                                    > subject of an all important prophecy...
                                    > >
                                    > > I also am wondering what Harry's and Bella's reaction to the prophecy
                                    > is going to be. Was Harry aware of the old prophecy and was is the same
                                    > from his original timeline? Will the change surprise him is the fact
                                    > that he is a subject in a prophecy shock him more? Also will Bella use
                                    > the knowledge of what it might mean as leverage over the Order?
                                    >
                                    > I am of the opinion that Bella will try to leverage the fact that she is
                                    > the DAUGHTER OF THE STARS against the Order. Remember that it is Bella's
                                    > belief that an army is only as strong as its leaders. So she will
                                    > undoubtedly use this information to her own gain.
                                    > >
                                    > > Either way I think once Harry and Bella learn of the prophecy that
                                    > they will reevaluate how they should interact with the Order. Would it
                                    > help or hurt to be unmasked if as soon as they do it means their
                                    > expected to end the war.
                                    >
                                    > I don't think there will be much change in how they will act...see
                                    > above. I think it is more likely that Bella will simply use this fact to
                                    > bring the Order and Dumbledore in line with her own plans. (As far as
                                    > Harry's views on this...I'm of the opinion that he is has been...(excuse
                                    > the term)...pussy-whipped. Bella is the expert on politics and Harry
                                    > will more than likely defer to her in such matters.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Anyways, that's my take on the situation. Would love to hear people's
                                    > comments. Cheers!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > Love to here people's thoughts
                                    > >
                                    > > gallandro
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Thomas Pulk
                                    I agree that the reveal wouldn t add anything I want to see to the story other than reunion/emotional chapters. Silvere s story seems to focus more on action
                                    Message 17 of 24 , May 3, 2012
                                      I agree that the reveal wouldn't add anything I want to see to the story other than reunion/emotional chapters. Silvere's story seems to focus more on action but the great writing means I have faith that whatever is decided will work out.

                                      I wanted to address why I think people can figure out Harry is if not Harry Potter at least a time traveler. (in my head at least) So here are the facts that can be seen from the outside or told to someone.

                                      1. NO IDENTITY - Everyone knows Harry Ashworth is a fictitious identity that was created by the Flashmann and then redone by Minister Black.

                                      2. THE BLACK HEIRSHIP WAS DISRUPTED WHEN HE CAME ON THE SCENE - Everyone is fairly sure that Ashworth knows or influenced both Minister and Lord Black possibly with Bella to give her control of the Black fortune.

                                      3. HARRY ASHWORTH SEEMED TO KNOW/HATE LORD VOLDEMORT - Harry came on the scene and his views are fairly consistent with going against Voldemort.

                                      4. PROPHECY POINTS TO HARRY BEING A CHANGER OF DESTINY AND TIED TO VOLDEMROT AND LORD BLACK- Given this isn't known to the general members of the story but it seems obvious and I think most of the characters will know.

                                      5. HARRY SEEMS TO BE A SKILLED COMBAT FIGHTER AND UNDERSTANDS HOW TO WAGE WAR AGAINST VOLDEMORT - Both Dumbledoor and Voldemort recognize how pivotal the knowledge Ashworth seemed to hold could tip the scales.

                                      6. BELLA LINKED HERSELF AS THE "NIECE" OF THE DURSLEY'S - This is stated outright and gives a positive clue/link to who Harry is.

                                      7. HARRY TALKED TO NEVILLE AND GINNY AS IF THEY WERE FAMILIAR AND HE CREATED/USED THE RUBIX PORTKEYS - Again another small clue as to who he might be.

                                      8. BOTH BELLA AND HARRY HAVEN'T SEEMED TO AGE - This points that his ability to travel in time can stretch across years.

                                      So here is where I think someone can guess his identity.

                                      #1 & #2 Point fairly solidly at time-travel in my mind. The lack of identity is the big one the magical world is small enough and I have a feeling that people have looked into who Harry is supposed to be but have never found out. Harry Ashworth remains a mystery and his skills and abilities (especially the Parsletounge) means that after this long someone should have made him standout. Given what Bella told us of the way that the heirship is passed down we know that with the double bloodtie that Walburga had we know that Harry must have a stronger tie to the family headship. This means that between #1 and #2 a BLACK appeared without warning and somehow bypassed all other living blacks. And given Walburga's double line of heirship even a bastard would not have as strong of claim. To me this points to a time traveler.

                                      If we accept that Harry is a time-traveler then #3, #4, & #5 seem to indicate that Harry is from a time in the future when Voldemort would be more widely known. Regardless it looks like Harry either knows Voldemort's past intimately or has some kind of psychic/seer knowledge. The psyche of a dark lord makes it unlikely that Riddle would have told anyone about himself and his weaknesses unless they knew him when he was young (but Dumbledoor then should recognize him). I don't really know how else to explain Harry's actions other than with timetravel or seer, if someone has another theory please let me know.

                                      #6 & #7 indicate that Harry is Harry Potter at least if they have followed the same logic I laid out. Especially when given Harry's likeness and could even be tested against wards/magic to confirm at some point.

                                      #8 just renforces that he is a time-traveler and is another starting point leading towards #1 and #2 again.

                                      I know that this is a flimsy breadcrumb trail (that might only be seen by Luna) but it is what my mind always goes too. I would love to know what others make of it.

                                      gallandro


                                      --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "efpabon" <efpabon@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > One of the things I admire about LS's writing style is his ability to keep both his prose and plot progression very concise and clean. Verbosity and a large word count do not necessarily make a story good. In my mind the question of whether or not to reveal Harry's Time Travel status hinges on one question...
                                      >
                                      > What value does it add to the story?
                                      >
                                      > Unfortunately for me I can't see that it really adds anything to the story. Any attachment or feelings between them would almost certainly have to be manufactured by the author and in my opinion would almost certainly ring false. They have never known one another, other than some sense of nostalgia on Harry's part there is no actual basis for any feelings other than being creeped out. So what would be the point? I can't see it being believable for any of the characters to some how figure out that they are time travelers.
                                      >
                                      > For me the fact that he is actually alive will be big enough of big reveal. Although, I could definitely visualize ending the story with a comedic scene where Bella asks Lily if she would like Bella to start calling her Mother... :-)
                                      >
                                    • lord_silvere
                                      I really appreciate you guys hashing this issue out. Although I m unlikely to alter my plans for how things happen, it does help me to make sure I ve covered
                                      Message 18 of 24 , May 3, 2012
                                        I really appreciate you guys hashing this issue out. Although I'm unlikely to alter my plans for how things happen, it does help me to make sure I've covered the bases for what I am doing.

                                        Thank you. :)

                                        LS

                                        --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I agree that the reveal wouldn't add anything I want to see to the story other than reunion/emotional chapters. Silvere's story seems to focus more on action but the great writing means I have faith that whatever is decided will work out.
                                        >
                                        > I wanted to address why I think people can figure out Harry is if not Harry Potter at least a time traveler. (in my head at least) So here are the facts that can be seen from the outside or told to someone.
                                        >
                                        > 1. NO IDENTITY - Everyone knows Harry Ashworth is a fictitious identity that was created by the Flashmann and then redone by Minister Black.
                                        >
                                        > 2. THE BLACK HEIRSHIP WAS DISRUPTED WHEN HE CAME ON THE SCENE - Everyone is fairly sure that Ashworth knows or influenced both Minister and Lord Black possibly with Bella to give her control of the Black fortune.
                                        >
                                        > 3. HARRY ASHWORTH SEEMED TO KNOW/HATE LORD VOLDEMORT - Harry came on the scene and his views are fairly consistent with going against Voldemort.
                                        >
                                        > 4. PROPHECY POINTS TO HARRY BEING A CHANGER OF DESTINY AND TIED TO VOLDEMROT AND LORD BLACK- Given this isn't known to the general members of the story but it seems obvious and I think most of the characters will know.
                                        >
                                        > 5. HARRY SEEMS TO BE A SKILLED COMBAT FIGHTER AND UNDERSTANDS HOW TO WAGE WAR AGAINST VOLDEMORT - Both Dumbledoor and Voldemort recognize how pivotal the knowledge Ashworth seemed to hold could tip the scales.
                                        >
                                        > 6. BELLA LINKED HERSELF AS THE "NIECE" OF THE DURSLEY'S - This is stated outright and gives a positive clue/link to who Harry is.
                                        >
                                        > 7. HARRY TALKED TO NEVILLE AND GINNY AS IF THEY WERE FAMILIAR AND HE CREATED/USED THE RUBIX PORTKEYS - Again another small clue as to who he might be.
                                        >
                                        > 8. BOTH BELLA AND HARRY HAVEN'T SEEMED TO AGE - This points that his ability to travel in time can stretch across years.
                                        >
                                        > So here is where I think someone can guess his identity.
                                        >
                                        > #1 & #2 Point fairly solidly at time-travel in my mind. The lack of identity is the big one the magical world is small enough and I have a feeling that people have looked into who Harry is supposed to be but have never found out. Harry Ashworth remains a mystery and his skills and abilities (especially the Parsletounge) means that after this long someone should have made him standout. Given what Bella told us of the way that the heirship is passed down we know that with the double bloodtie that Walburga had we know that Harry must have a stronger tie to the family headship. This means that between #1 and #2 a BLACK appeared without warning and somehow bypassed all other living blacks. And given Walburga's double line of heirship even a bastard would not have as strong of claim. To me this points to a time traveler.
                                        >
                                        > If we accept that Harry is a time-traveler then #3, #4, & #5 seem to indicate that Harry is from a time in the future when Voldemort would be more widely known. Regardless it looks like Harry either knows Voldemort's past intimately or has some kind of psychic/seer knowledge. The psyche of a dark lord makes it unlikely that Riddle would have told anyone about himself and his weaknesses unless they knew him when he was young (but Dumbledoor then should recognize him). I don't really know how else to explain Harry's actions other than with timetravel or seer, if someone has another theory please let me know.
                                        >
                                        > #6 & #7 indicate that Harry is Harry Potter at least if they have followed the same logic I laid out. Especially when given Harry's likeness and could even be tested against wards/magic to confirm at some point.
                                        >
                                        > #8 just renforces that he is a time-traveler and is another starting point leading towards #1 and #2 again.
                                        >
                                        > I know that this is a flimsy breadcrumb trail (that might only be seen by Luna) but it is what my mind always goes too. I would love to know what others make of it.
                                        >
                                        > gallandro
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "efpabon" <efpabon@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > One of the things I admire about LS's writing style is his ability to keep both his prose and plot progression very concise and clean. Verbosity and a large word count do not necessarily make a story good. In my mind the question of whether or not to reveal Harry's Time Travel status hinges on one question...
                                        > >
                                        > > What value does it add to the story?
                                        > >
                                        > > Unfortunately for me I can't see that it really adds anything to the story. Any attachment or feelings between them would almost certainly have to be manufactured by the author and in my opinion would almost certainly ring false. They have never known one another, other than some sense of nostalgia on Harry's part there is no actual basis for any feelings other than being creeped out. So what would be the point? I can't see it being believable for any of the characters to some how figure out that they are time travelers.
                                        > >
                                        > > For me the fact that he is actually alive will be big enough of big reveal. Although, I could definitely visualize ending the story with a comedic scene where Bella asks Lily if she would like Bella to start calling her Mother... :-)
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • wiljoy
                                        Anytime Silvere. This is more of a friendly debate than anything else. Please don t feel that we re trying to pressure you. =) I will respect your plot choices
                                        Message 19 of 24 , May 3, 2012
                                          Anytime Silvere. This is more of a friendly debate than anything else. Please don't feel that we're trying to pressure you. =) I will respect your plot choices whatever they may be. Best of luck on writing. I look forward to the next chapter. Cheers!

                                          ~Trayus

                                          --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "lord_silvere" <lordsilvere@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I really appreciate you guys hashing this issue out. Although I'm unlikely to alter my plans for how things happen, it does help me to make sure I've covered the bases for what I am doing.
                                          >
                                          > Thank you. :)
                                          >
                                          > LS
                                          >
                                          > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I agree that the reveal wouldn't add anything I want to see to the story other than reunion/emotional chapters. Silvere's story seems to focus more on action but the great writing means I have faith that whatever is decided will work out.
                                          > >
                                          > > I wanted to address why I think people can figure out Harry is if not Harry Potter at least a time traveler. (in my head at least) So here are the facts that can be seen from the outside or told to someone.
                                          > >
                                          > > 1. NO IDENTITY - Everyone knows Harry Ashworth is a fictitious identity that was created by the Flashmann and then redone by Minister Black.
                                          > >
                                          > > 2. THE BLACK HEIRSHIP WAS DISRUPTED WHEN HE CAME ON THE SCENE - Everyone is fairly sure that Ashworth knows or influenced both Minister and Lord Black possibly with Bella to give her control of the Black fortune.
                                          > >
                                          > > 3. HARRY ASHWORTH SEEMED TO KNOW/HATE LORD VOLDEMORT - Harry came on the scene and his views are fairly consistent with going against Voldemort.
                                          > >
                                          > > 4. PROPHECY POINTS TO HARRY BEING A CHANGER OF DESTINY AND TIED TO VOLDEMROT AND LORD BLACK- Given this isn't known to the general members of the story but it seems obvious and I think most of the characters will know.
                                          > >
                                          > > 5. HARRY SEEMS TO BE A SKILLED COMBAT FIGHTER AND UNDERSTANDS HOW TO WAGE WAR AGAINST VOLDEMORT - Both Dumbledoor and Voldemort recognize how pivotal the knowledge Ashworth seemed to hold could tip the scales.
                                          > >
                                          > > 6. BELLA LINKED HERSELF AS THE "NIECE" OF THE DURSLEY'S - This is stated outright and gives a positive clue/link to who Harry is.
                                          > >
                                          > > 7. HARRY TALKED TO NEVILLE AND GINNY AS IF THEY WERE FAMILIAR AND HE CREATED/USED THE RUBIX PORTKEYS - Again another small clue as to who he might be.
                                          > >
                                          > > 8. BOTH BELLA AND HARRY HAVEN'T SEEMED TO AGE - This points that his ability to travel in time can stretch across years.
                                          > >
                                          > > So here is where I think someone can guess his identity.
                                          > >
                                          > > #1 & #2 Point fairly solidly at time-travel in my mind. The lack of identity is the big one the magical world is small enough and I have a feeling that people have looked into who Harry is supposed to be but have never found out. Harry Ashworth remains a mystery and his skills and abilities (especially the Parsletounge) means that after this long someone should have made him standout. Given what Bella told us of the way that the heirship is passed down we know that with the double bloodtie that Walburga had we know that Harry must have a stronger tie to the family headship. This means that between #1 and #2 a BLACK appeared without warning and somehow bypassed all other living blacks. And given Walburga's double line of heirship even a bastard would not have as strong of claim. To me this points to a time traveler.
                                          > >
                                          > > If we accept that Harry is a time-traveler then #3, #4, & #5 seem to indicate that Harry is from a time in the future when Voldemort would be more widely known. Regardless it looks like Harry either knows Voldemort's past intimately or has some kind of psychic/seer knowledge. The psyche of a dark lord makes it unlikely that Riddle would have told anyone about himself and his weaknesses unless they knew him when he was young (but Dumbledoor then should recognize him). I don't really know how else to explain Harry's actions other than with timetravel or seer, if someone has another theory please let me know.
                                          > >
                                          > > #6 & #7 indicate that Harry is Harry Potter at least if they have followed the same logic I laid out. Especially when given Harry's likeness and could even be tested against wards/magic to confirm at some point.
                                          > >
                                          > > #8 just renforces that he is a time-traveler and is another starting point leading towards #1 and #2 again.
                                          > >
                                          > > I know that this is a flimsy breadcrumb trail (that might only be seen by Luna) but it is what my mind always goes too. I would love to know what others make of it.
                                          > >
                                          > > gallandro
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "efpabon" <efpabon@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > One of the things I admire about LS's writing style is his ability to keep both his prose and plot progression very concise and clean. Verbosity and a large word count do not necessarily make a story good. In my mind the question of whether or not to reveal Harry's Time Travel status hinges on one question...
                                          > > >
                                          > > > What value does it add to the story?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Unfortunately for me I can't see that it really adds anything to the story. Any attachment or feelings between them would almost certainly have to be manufactured by the author and in my opinion would almost certainly ring false. They have never known one another, other than some sense of nostalgia on Harry's part there is no actual basis for any feelings other than being creeped out. So what would be the point? I can't see it being believable for any of the characters to some how figure out that they are time travelers.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > For me the fact that he is actually alive will be big enough of big reveal. Although, I could definitely visualize ending the story with a comedic scene where Bella asks Lily if she would like Bella to start calling her Mother... :-)
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • efpabon
                                          Sorry, but your arguments don t really make any sense to me. While all the points you make are entirely accurate. The conclusions are very illogical based on
                                          Message 20 of 24 , May 3, 2012
                                            Sorry, but your arguments don't really make any sense to me. While all the points you make are entirely accurate. The conclusions are very illogical based on the information the characters themselves actually have.

                                            In your post you state that points 1 and 2 indicate time travel, but that is not actually true. What they point to is the conclusion that Moody and Dumbles have actually drawn. Orion, Cygnus and Malfoy made arrangements for Harry to continue the fight if something was to happen to them. They have no way to know that Harry was already Lord Black, they also have no way of understanding what is behind Harry's false identity. Logically, from the information they have now, they could just as easily come to the conclusion that he is somehow related to Voldemort based on the fact that he is also a Parselmouth.

                                            Remember, to the characters (as far as they know) Time Travel is an impossibility. They would look for a million other explanations before they actually accepted that time travel of 22 years COULD be possible. It would definitely be more plausible from their point of view for Harry to be some type of Seer.

                                            As for the rest, it will all depend on how LS plots it. As of now none of the characters have enough information to solve the puzzle. The key piece of the puzzle is the link between Voldemort and Harry and no one, but Harry and Bella know that so far. Remember, Harry never defeated Voldie in this universe, so the "mark him as equal" part of the prophecy will always remain a mystery unless Harry and Bella choose to reveal it.

                                            --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Pulk" <gallandro_83@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I agree that the reveal wouldn't add anything I want to see to the story other than reunion/emotional chapters. Silvere's story seems to focus more on action but the great writing means I have faith that whatever is decided will work out.
                                            >
                                            > I wanted to address why I think people can figure out Harry is if not Harry Potter at least a time traveler. (in my head at least) So here are the facts that can be seen from the outside or told to someone.
                                            >
                                            > 1. NO IDENTITY - Everyone knows Harry Ashworth is a fictitious identity that was created by the Flashmann and then redone by Minister Black.
                                            >
                                            > 2. THE BLACK HEIRSHIP WAS DISRUPTED WHEN HE CAME ON THE SCENE - Everyone is fairly sure that Ashworth knows or influenced both Minister and Lord Black possibly with Bella to give her control of the Black fortune.
                                            >
                                            > 3. HARRY ASHWORTH SEEMED TO KNOW/HATE LORD VOLDEMORT - Harry came on the scene and his views are fairly consistent with going against Voldemort.
                                            >
                                            > 4. PROPHECY POINTS TO HARRY BEING A CHANGER OF DESTINY AND TIED TO VOLDEMROT AND LORD BLACK- Given this isn't known to the general members of the story but it seems obvious and I think most of the characters will know.
                                            >
                                            > 5. HARRY SEEMS TO BE A SKILLED COMBAT FIGHTER AND UNDERSTANDS HOW TO WAGE WAR AGAINST VOLDEMORT - Both Dumbledoor and Voldemort recognize how pivotal the knowledge Ashworth seemed to hold could tip the scales.
                                            >
                                            > 6. BELLA LINKED HERSELF AS THE "NIECE" OF THE DURSLEY'S - This is stated outright and gives a positive clue/link to who Harry is.
                                            >
                                            > 7. HARRY TALKED TO NEVILLE AND GINNY AS IF THEY WERE FAMILIAR AND HE CREATED/USED THE RUBIX PORTKEYS - Again another small clue as to who he might be.
                                            >
                                            > 8. BOTH BELLA AND HARRY HAVEN'T SEEMED TO AGE - This points that his ability to travel in time can stretch across years.
                                            >
                                            > So here is where I think someone can guess his identity.
                                            >
                                            > #1 & #2 Point fairly solidly at time-travel in my mind. The lack of identity is the big one the magical world is small enough and I have a feeling that people have looked into who Harry is supposed to be but have never found out. Harry Ashworth remains a mystery and his skills and abilities (especially the Parsletounge) means that after this long someone should have made him standout. Given what Bella told us of the way that the heirship is passed down we know that with the double bloodtie that Walburga had we know that Harry must have a stronger tie to the family headship. This means that between #1 and #2 a BLACK appeared without warning and somehow bypassed all other living blacks. And given Walburga's double line of heirship even a bastard would not have as strong of claim. To me this points to a time traveler.
                                            >
                                            > If we accept that Harry is a time-traveler then #3, #4, & #5 seem to indicate that Harry is from a time in the future when Voldemort would be more widely known. Regardless it looks like Harry either knows Voldemort's past intimately or has some kind of psychic/seer knowledge. The psyche of a dark lord makes it unlikely that Riddle would have told anyone about himself and his weaknesses unless they knew him when he was young (but Dumbledoor then should recognize him). I don't really know how else to explain Harry's actions other than with timetravel or seer, if someone has another theory please let me know.
                                            >
                                            > #6 & #7 indicate that Harry is Harry Potter at least if they have followed the same logic I laid out. Especially when given Harry's likeness and could even be tested against wards/magic to confirm at some point.
                                            >
                                            > #8 just renforces that he is a time-traveler and is another starting point leading towards #1 and #2 again.
                                            >
                                            > I know that this is a flimsy breadcrumb trail (that might only be seen by Luna) but it is what my mind always goes too. I would love to know what others make of it.
                                            >
                                            > gallandro
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "efpabon" <efpabon@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > One of the things I admire about LS's writing style is his ability to keep both his prose and plot progression very concise and clean. Verbosity and a large word count do not necessarily make a story good. In my mind the question of whether or not to reveal Harry's Time Travel status hinges on one question...
                                            > >
                                            > > What value does it add to the story?
                                            > >
                                            > > Unfortunately for me I can't see that it really adds anything to the story. Any attachment or feelings between them would almost certainly have to be manufactured by the author and in my opinion would almost certainly ring false. They have never known one another, other than some sense of nostalgia on Harry's part there is no actual basis for any feelings other than being creeped out. So what would be the point? I can't see it being believable for any of the characters to some how figure out that they are time travelers.
                                            > >
                                            > > For me the fact that he is actually alive will be big enough of big reveal. Although, I could definitely visualize ending the story with a comedic scene where Bella asks Lily if she would like Bella to start calling her Mother... :-)
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Thomas Pulk
                                            I didn t really think about Harry being identified as possibly related to Voldemort though I should have. Thanks for the thought I m going to need to think on
                                            Message 21 of 24 , May 4, 2012
                                              I didn't really think about Harry being identified as possibly related to Voldemort though I should have. Thanks for the thought I'm going to  need to think on that a bit more and see what it does for my ideas.

                                              I still think there should be a bit more mystery towards how the Lordship of the Black family passed down. I realize that in the present its a decade old mystery that people are only guessing might be sorted by the appearance of the next generation (ie. Draco and Leo). However, now that Bella is back on the scene and seems to have gained control from the new Lord Black I think more investigation is expected. Based on what Bella and probably Sirus know as well as the tapestry in Grimwald place Walburga should have gained control as a matter of course. My view on pureblood culture has always made me think the inheritance laws are set in stone and only ending a family would have stopped the process.  

                                              I admit that Cygnus and Orion are seen as having done was to make sure Voldemort would be opposed, but I'm not sure as purebloods they would have turned over control of their family. I also can't see how Bella or "Ashworth" could have gained control regardless of any patriarchal scheming. Orion wouldn't have given up control to Bella or Harry when Cygnus was still alive. His traitorous death was unexpected and its obvious that as trusted as Harry was he wasn't viewed as family enough to be put in succession. 

                                              Maybe the marriage to Bella might have triggered something. 

                                              OOOH new thought - 

                                              Bella only returned because she finally married Ashworth and gained control of the Black family and money. The headship of the Black's was in limbo since Cygnus's death due to negotiations between himself Ashworth and Bella. They didn't marry until they were ready to return and bring the fight to Voldemort to not give away their survival. Ashworth could still be dead in this scenario, just as it happened in the story they finally completed the marriage to safeguard the money even though they may not have been ready. 

                                              This even fits with the marriage only happening in the present the only inconsistency is Bella's appearance and ignorance of the current history.

                                              If the characters are pursuing this line of thought and Harry being Voldemort's offspring working against him it destroys my other chain of logic completely, I hate when that happens. This involves two different theories being assumed at the same time but given how outlandish time-travel seems I think the characters might believe them easier. 

                                              ******

                                              I still think its a possibility that someone might guess what is really going on yet it seems my fellow readers wouldn't buy it. I'm kind of hoping that a few more hints get dropped so people can put it together. I don't mean for Harry to reveal he is Harry Potter as an orphan and from an unrealized timeline it means nothing but drama/confusion for our characters. However the time-travel means that Harry can still be an unknown Ashworth/Black with an authority that would be hard to refute. It gives him a measure of control and power that the Order would find it hard to debate and the idea would make Voldemort wary of such unknown and powerful magic. I don't see Dumbledoor giving the prophecy or control too Harry or Bella otherwise. I also think its one of the few ways Voldemort would accept why Ashworth has become such a threat to him and it makes him even that much more threatening. 

                                              While it seems I have ended up talking myself out of my previous conclusions I'm wondering if other people have some other ideas as to what Bella and Harry in the present mean to the characters in the story. I want a dialogue to debate such a great story it makes me think and I hope it helps our author.

                                              Anyone else coming up with something?

                                              gallandro 

                                              --- In DelendaEst@yahoogroups.com, "efpabon" <efpabon@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Sorry, but your arguments don't really make any sense to me.  While all the points you make are entirely accurate.  The conclusions are very illogical based on the information the characters themselves actually have.  
                                              > In your post you state that points 1 and 2 indicate time travel, but that is not actually true.  What they point to is the conclusion that Moody and Dumbles have actually drawn.  Orion, Cygnus and Malfoy made arrangements for Harry to continue the fight if something was to happen to them.  They have no way to know that Harry was already Lord Black, they also have no way of understanding what is behind Harry's false identity. Logically, from the information they have now, they could just as easily come to the conclusion that he is somehow related to Voldemort based on the fact that he is also a Parselmouth.
                                              > Remember, to the characters (as far as they know) Time Travel is an impossibility.  They would look for a million other explanations before they actually accepted that time travel of 22 years COULD be possible. It would definitely be more plausible from their point of view for Harry to be some type of Seer.
                                              > As for the rest, it will all depend on how LS plots it. As of now none of the characters have enough information to solve the puzzle. The key piece of the puzzle is the link between Voldemort and Harry and no one, but Harry and Bella know that so far. Remember, Harry never defeated Voldie in this universe, so the "mark him as equal" part of the prophecy will always remain a mystery unless Harry and Bella choose to reveal it. 

                                            • crystalalx
                                              I really don t care whether or nut Harry is reveled to be a time traveler that created an alternate universe though i wouldn t mind if that happens. What i
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jun 17, 2012
                                                I really don't care whether or nut Harry is reveled to be a time traveler that created an alternate universe though i wouldn't mind if that happens.
                                                What i want to see is for them to realize Harry Ashworth is alive and for Db to be forced to work with him as an equal.
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