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  • ochs_matt
    I live only an hour away from Punxsutawny, but have never been to the festival. Perhaps if I ever get in a delirium haze, and my car evolves to take over
    Message 1 of 29 , Oct 1, 2006
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      I live only an hour away from Punxsutawny, but have never been to
      the festival. Perhaps if I ever get in a delirium haze, and my car
      evolves to take over cruise control, I may one day find myself
      there.

      --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, "Michael E. Suttkus, II"
      <suttkus@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, Dave Oldridge <doldridg@>
      wrote:
      > >
      > > > > > >Punxsutawny Phil (groundhog day),...
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Just out of curiosity: Which language is this?
      > > > >
      > > > > It's from the movie Groundhog Day ...
      > > >
      > > > It may have appeared in the movie, but it's not *from* the
      > > > movie.
      > >
      > > You mean they actually have one?
      >
      > Read it and weep/grin/shake your head in utter incomprehension at
      how
      > the same species that produced Hamlet and the theory of relativity
      > engages in this once a year.
      >
      > > I'm not surprised. It looked like fun to me!
      >
      > It is! And according to one reviewer, he sports a 120% accuracy
      > rating! I didn't ask.
      >
    • Joe Cooper
      ... A global language is much more likely to be changed than an insular one. And not necessarily by the native speakers. One of the largest English using
      Message 2 of 29 , Oct 1, 2006
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        Michael E. Suttkus, II wrote:
        > --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, "MB" <mbb386@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Question: In olden days wealthy people were able to have foreign-
        >> language nurses and tutors for their young children. Nowadays
        >> that's rather out of possible.
        >>
        >
        > This will not be a problem once America conqueors the world and
        > installs English as the global language. WE'LL EVEN FIX YOUR
        > SPELLINGS, ENGLANDERS!
        >
        >
        >
        >

        A global language is much more likely to be changed than an insular one.
        And not necessarily by the "native" speakers.

        One of the largest English using groups is Indians (India) using it as a
        second language.

        Joe Cooper
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Michael E. Suttkus, II
        ... Not if we shoot people who change it! :-) Actually, I have several changes that I d like to see made, from spelling Neanderthal Neandertal, to using
        Message 3 of 29 , Oct 1, 2006
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          --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, Joe Cooper <joe0727@...> wrote:
          >
          > > This will not be a problem once America conqueors the world and
          > > installs English as the global language. WE'LL EVEN FIX YOUR
          > > SPELLINGS, ENGLANDERS!
          >
          > A global language is much more likely to be changed than an
          > insular one.

          Not if we shoot people who change it! :-)

          Actually, I have several changes that I'd like to see made, from
          spelling Neanderthal Neandertal, to using British style of punctuating
          sentences around quotes (see, I'm not just mindlessly anti-British-
          English).
        • Roger Stanyard
          ... punctuating ... I m lost! Neandertal and Neanderthal are both German not English words - the thal is basically archaic German that has long been replaced
          Message 4 of 29 , Oct 1, 2006
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            --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, "Michael E. Suttkus, II"
            <suttkus@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, Joe Cooper <joe0727@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > This will not be a problem once America conqueors the world and
            > > > installs English as the global language. WE'LL EVEN FIX YOUR
            > > > SPELLINGS, ENGLANDERS!
            > >
            > > A global language is much more likely to be changed than an
            > > insular one.
            >
            > Not if we shoot people who change it! :-)
            >
            > Actually, I have several changes that I'd like to see made, from
            > spelling Neanderthal Neandertal, to using British style of
            punctuating
            > sentences around quotes (see, I'm not just mindlessly anti-British-
            > English).

            I'm lost! Neandertal and Neanderthal are both German not English
            words - the "thal" is basically archaic German that has long been
            replaced (in German) by "tal" (meaning valley).
            >
          • Drew Smith
            Michael: Actually, I have several changes that I d like to see made, from spelling Neanderthal Neandertal... Roger: I m lost! Neandertal and Neanderthal are
            Message 5 of 29 , Oct 1, 2006
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              Michael: Actually, I have several changes that I'd like to see made, from
              spelling Neanderthal Neandertal...

              Roger: I'm lost! Neandertal and Neanderthal are both German not English
              words...

              Drew: Roger, they may have been *originally* only German words, but they
              have become English words by dint of their being frequently used and
              understood in English-language communication. Certainly, you do not claim
              that something can't be an English word merely on the basis that it
              originated in another language?
            • Anne Gilbert
              Roger and all: First, a sort of, word or explanation. Before about 1900 or so, Germans spelled that famous or infamous valley where the most famous or
              Message 6 of 29 , Oct 1, 2006
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                Roger and all:
                 
                First, a sort of, word or explanation.  Before about 1900 or so, Germans spelled that famous or infamous valley where the most famous or infamous of late archaic humans was found, Germans routinely spelled it "Neanderthal".  The H was silent.  It was named after one Joachim Neander, who died just before Johann Sebastian Bach was born, at the age of 30.  Just as a side note, his name was originally Joachim Neumann(he took "Neander" as the fancy Greek equivalent).  After about 1900 German orthography dropped the silent H of words like "Neanderthal", so that it became in more modern German, "Neandertal". 
                 
                Now here is where things get kind of interesting.  I grew up with "Neanderthal"(H pronounced).  I also grew up with cartoonish "beastly" or "sad" Neanderthals/tals wearing little but silly looking fur kilts.  I always felt sorry for them; it seemed awful to my childish mind that they went around with such inadequate clothing in the cold Ice Age, even if they did hunt a lot of mammoths.  Or so I figured. 
                 
                Anyway, later on in my life, I began to notice "Neandertal", and discovered that this was beginning to be the favored spelling among at least some in the community that deals with such things.  I have also noticed, more recently, that Americans and Europeans, but not British English speakers or the New York Times, tend to favor "Neandertal".  Most, but all of those who favor this more "modern" spelling also tend to be relatively "Neander-friendly"; that is, they are more willing to see Neandertals as capable folk whose particular morph just doesn't happen to be around any more, for whatever reason. 
                 
                Those who favor the older spelling, in general, tend not to be quite so "Neander-friendly", at least not in the scientific community, and they tend to emphasize more differences than the "Neandertal'spellers" would. 
                 
                Of course, there are any number of exceptions, and I would never presume to tell anybody how to spell this particular name of this particular group of prehistoric people.  And you have a right to be confused.  Or demand some spelling changes.  The "scientific community" doesn't seem to have made up its mind about this, either(though I have). 
                 
                Oh, and one more thing:  any creationists reading this should beware.  This is not to be twisted into some creationist claim that millions of scientists (or whatever) are questioning evolution, human or otherwise.  Neither the "Neander-friendly" folks nor the "Neander-stupid" folks are questioning that evolution took place, and is taking place all the time.  Nor are they questioning that evolution applies to humans as well as everthing else that lives.
                Anne G
                 
                 


                I'm lost! Neandertal and Neanderthal are both German not English
                words - the "thal" is basically archaic German that has long been
                replaced (in German) by "tal" (meaning valley).

                >

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