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RE: [DebunkCreation] Re: Creationists in UK

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  • Wilson Alan
    ... the ... language ... Thanks for the offer Alan. If I have anything useful to contribute, I will. ... No doubt he accepts that this same observation alko
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 5, 2004
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      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: alanbellis@...
      > [mailto:alanbellis@...]
      > Sent: 05 March 2004 00:23
      > To: Wilson Alan
      > Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: Creationists in UK
      >
      >
      > Hello Alan,
      >
      > Thank you for your recent e-mail & offers of support. I am
      > continuing to
      > develop www.blackshadow.co.uk & with a bit of effort I should
      > be able to
      > improve the design (currently on fusion 7's default settings)
      > & turn it into
      > a useful source of knowledge & opinions on the cretinist threat.
      >
      >
      >
      > If you or your friends wanted to add some content/comments
      > to Black-Shadow then feel free. You can even have your own little area of
      the
      > site if you like. The only thing I would ask is that you try to keep the
      language
      > "clean" as I could get children from the VF schools visiting.
      >
      Thanks for the offer Alan. If I have anything useful to contribute, I will.

      > I see King's Academy has banned Harry Potter books from the library!
      > Look what someone wrote in our local paper today:
      >
      >
      >
      > I wish to reply to Alan Bellis' letter (View-point, February 19).
      >
      >
      >
      > He outlines his unease about the Vardy Foundation's plans
      > to establish a
      > new school in Thorne.
      >
      >
      >
      > It seems clear that Mr Bellis is an atheist and this,
      > therefore, affects his view on events both past & present.
      >
      No doubt he accepts that this same observation alko applies to Christians?

      >
      > I would acknowledge that religion has much to be ashamed of
      > regarding what has transpired down the centuries.
      >
      Indeed, and orders of magnitude more to be ashamed of,
      than science or atheism has.


      >
      > At the same time most fair minded people would realise that
      > Christians have made a tremendous contribution to the advancement of
      > civilization in the western world.
      >
      Again, no doubt he accepts that the same applies to science and scientists.

      >
      > Most of the great political reformers and many prominent pioneers in the
      > realms of health and education have been people with deep > rooted
      Christian
      > convictions.
      >
      Undoubtedly, and the same applies to science and scientists (including
      thjose who are atheists)
      not only in relation to health and education, but in many other fields of
      human endeavour such as:
      Abiogenesis; Archaeology; Astronomy; Biology
      (theory of disease, anaesthetics and, evolution to mention only three);
      Chemistry; Cosmolgy; Geology; Mathematics; Physics and; Relativity etc.,
      to name but a few.

      >
      > I would ask Mr Bellis if his fellow atheists have made a
      > similar impact for good?
      >
      See previous response above.

      >
      > As far as the Vardy Foundation are concerned, they already
      > operate one school - the Emmanuel Academy in Gateshead.
      >
      Unfortunately this is true.

      >
      > The children attending are not handpicked and the school
      > has operated long
      > enough to demonstrate beyond doubt what outstanding results
      > can be achieved when a Christian ethos pervades the school.
      >
      Nothing to do with the teachers and the children's innate abilities then?

      >
      > If this sort of success story can be repeated in Thorne then we have
      > nothing to fear.
      >
      Unfortunately, if only this were true.
      There is a "Black Shadow" hanging over education because Society
      has very much to fear from the teaching the long ago, scientifically
      disproven,
      oxymoronic "creation science", to anyone, including young and impressionable
      children,
      as an alternative "theory" to evolution, in our national schools and science
      classrooms.
      "Teach creationism" in RE, Churches, Sunday Schools and in Christian homes,
      where it should be "taught".

      >
      >
      > I understand that, while I have never visited the Emmanuel Academy,
      > visitors are welcomed and granted freedom to speak to pupils
      > and staff.
      >
      >
      >
      > Perhaps Mr Bellis would care to join me on a trip there in the near
      > future?
      >
      >
      >
      > Harold Mason.
      >
      >
      >
      > Know any good atheists!
      >
      How about asking Ian Robinson or Professor Richard Dawkins to visit? :-)
      >
      > Best wishes,
      >
      > Alan.
      >
      Regards,
      Alan W

      PS: I hope you don't mind, but I've copied the Debunk Creation group with
      this,
      on the grounds that some members may wish to contribute to your Black-Shadow
      site.

      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Wilson Alan" <Alan.Wilson@...>
      > To: <alanbellis@...>
      > Cc: <lflank@...>; <DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com>; "'Ian
      > Robinson'"
      > <ian@...>
      > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:59 PM
      > Subject: RE: [DebunkCreation] Re: Creationists in UK
      >
      >
      > > Hi Alan,
      > > I'm one of the co-athors Ian referred to.
      > > In truth, almost all of the document was
      > > written, and very well written too, by Ian
      > > with Mikey adding his 2p's worth and me my 1p :-)
      > >
      > > I'm happy to support you in any small ways I can.
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Alan
      > >
      > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Ian Robinson [mailto:ian@...]
      > > > Sent: 29 February 2004 13:59
      > > > To: alanbellis@...
      > > > Cc: lflank@...; DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: Creationists in UK
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi Alan,
      > > >
      > > > Sorry for this email out of the blue. It is in response to
      > > > your email to
      > > > Lenny Flank. He forwarded it to a mailing list he moderates called
      > > > DebunkCreation.
      > > >
      > > > The issue of the Vardy backed creationists taking over
      > > > schools in the UK is
      > > > something that needs to be tackled as you say. Two other
      > > > members of the
      > > > DebunkCreation list and myself from the UK wrote the text
      > > > posted the URL
      > > > below last year and sent it to the listed recipients -
      > > >
      > > >
      > <http://homepage.mac.com/ianrobinson/C1928165884/E54004046/index.html>
      > > >
      > > > Feel free to link to this if you want to. I would also
      > > > suggest that you join
      > > > and/or link to the National Secular Society site. You should
      > > > sign up or
      > > > their weekly Newsletter as well -
      > > >
      > > > <http://www.secularism.org.uk/>
      > > >
      > > > Another organisation you should consider joining or
      > linking to is the
      > > > British Humanist Association at -
      > > >
      > > > <http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/>
      > > >
      > > > You should also join the DebunkCreation mailing list at -
      > > >
      > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DebunkCreation/>
      > > >
      > > > I've cc'ed this to DebunkCreation, Lenny Flank and blind
      > > > cc'ed it to Mike
      > > > Brass and Alan Wilson who co-authored the text linked to above.
      > > >
      > > > Cheers,
      > > >
      > > > Ian
      > > >
      > > > On 29/2/04 1:33 pm, "lflank@..." <lflank@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I got an email from someone in the UK, and I thought some
      > > > > of our list members from that side of The Pond would like to
      > > > > get in touch with this fellow:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > On 29 Feb 2004 at 13:06, alanbellis@... wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Dear Lenny,
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I am from Goole in East Yorkshire, England & we also have
      > > > a problem with
      > > > >> creationists taking
      > > > >> over our schools. In some ways our problems are worse
      > > > because they even run
      > > > >> them as well!. I
      > > > >> am developinga website on the subject at
      > > > www.blackshadow.co.uk which although
      > > > >> only about
      > > > >> 10% complete at the moment, should give you an idea of
      > > > what is going on here.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I have come across your site whilst investigating the
      > > > subject of creationism
      > > > >> & find you have many
      > > > >> interesting things to say. I think people here would be
      > > > interested in them.
      > > > >> There are many
      > > > >> similarities between the problem here & in America (for
      > > > instance how the
      > > > >> creationists like to
      > > > >> portray themselves as reasonable & tolerant whilst writing
      > > > & saying things
      > > > >> that show their true
      > > > >> colours as intolerant religious extremists & right wing
      > > > fascists) & I would
      > > > >> like to demonstrate this to
      > > > >> my readers by quoting from sites such as yours & then
      > > > comparing them from to
      > > > >> things over here
      > > > >> written by & about Creationists. For example "The Bible
      > > > says we are to . . .
      > > > >> rule. If you don't rule
      > > > >> and I don't rule, the atheists and the humanists and the
      > > > agnostics are going
      > > > >> to rule. We should be
      > > > >> the head of our school board. We should be the head of our
      > > > nation. We should
      > > > >> be the Senators
      > > > >> and Congressmen. We should be the editors of our
      > > > newspapers. We should be
      > > > >> taking over every
      > > > >> area of life.". Well we have these fanatics saying similar
      > > > things over here.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I would therefore like permission to quote from your site
      > > > & use information
      > > > >> from it. Of course I
      > > > >> will always acknowledge the source of this information &
      > > > will happily supply
      > > > >> a link to it.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Thanks for you time,
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Best wishes, Alan.
      > > > >>
      > > > >
      > > > > ==========================================
      > > > > Lenny Flank
      > > > > "There are no loose threads in the web of life"
      > > > >
      > > > > Creation "Science" Debunked:
      > > > > http://www.geocities.com/lflank
      > > > >
      > > > > My Reptile Page:
      > > > > http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > > > ---------------------~-->
      > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon
      > > > or Lexmark
      > > > > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to
      > > > the US & Canada.
      > > > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
      > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/33wwlB/TM
      > > > >
      > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > -------~->
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > Ian Robinson - Belfast - UK <http://www.canicula.com>
      > > > Soapbox - <http://homepage.mac.com/ianrobinson/index.html>
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
    • Ian Robinson
      ... Ian -- Ian Robinson - Belfast - UK Soapbox -
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 5, 2004
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        On 5/3/04 8:04 pm, "Wilson Alan" <Alan.Wilson@...> wrote:

        >>
        >> Know any good atheists!
        >>
        > How about asking Ian Robinson or Professor Richard Dawkins to visit? :-)

        :-)))

        Ian
        --
        Ian Robinson - Belfast - UK <http://www.canicula.com>
        Soapbox - <http://homepage.mac.com/ianrobinson/index.html>
      • Michael Suttkus
        ... Nonsense! It s a completely different situation. You see, since they are prejudiced towards truth, that can t really be considered prejudicial at all.
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 6, 2004
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          Wilson Alan <Alan.Wilson@...> wrote:
          >
          > > It seems clear that Mr Bellis is an atheist and this,
          > > therefore, affects his view on events both past & present.
          > >
          > No doubt he accepts that this same observation alko applies to
          > Christians?

          Nonsense! It's a completely different situation. You see,
          since they are prejudiced towards truth, that can't really be
          considered prejudicial at all. It's only those atheists who are
          biased to LIES are allowed to let their beliefs influence
          anything.

          See? Not a double standard, our standard is TRUTH!

          =====
          "It takes an idiot to do cool things. That's why it's cool."
          - Haruhara Haruko, FLCL

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        • Wilson Alan
          ... Ah!. Now I understand. All the scientists and atheists are Homer Simpson clones :-) Alan
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 7, 2004
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            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Michael Suttkus [mailto:suttkus@...]
            > Sent: 07 March 2004 02:36
            > To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [DebunkCreation] Re: Creationists in UK
            >
            >
            > Wilson Alan <Alan.Wilson@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > It seems clear that Mr Bellis is an atheist and this,
            > > > therefore, affects his view on events both past & present.
            > > >
            > > No doubt he accepts that this same observation alko applies to
            > > Christians?
            >
            > Nonsense! It's a completely different situation. You see,
            > since they are prejudiced towards truth, that can't really be
            > considered prejudicial at all. It's only those atheists who are
            > biased to LIES are allowed to let their beliefs influence
            > anything.
            >
            > See? Not a double standard, our standard is TRUTH!
            > :-0

            Ah!. Now I understand.
            All the scientists and atheists are Homer Simpson clones :-)

            Alan
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