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Who is eating cud ?

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  • henryhanno@aol.com
    Date: 6/24/01 3:54:31 PM Central Daylight Time From: lflank@ij.net reply to:
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 24, 2001
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      Date: 6/24/01 3:54:31 PM Central Daylight Time
      From:    lflank@...
      reply to: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
      To:  DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com




      On 24 Jun 01, at 9:18, pastorb401@... wrote:

      > I was in a Christian chat on AOL and asked a very simple question: Why
      > in Deuterogamy does it state that rabbits or hares chew the cud when
      > they do not?  Many answers in chat laid claim to the fact that they
      > indeed do chew the cud.  One answer was based on the fact that
      > Coprophagy was the same as "chewing the cud".  I couldn't believe this
      > bullshit!  IT is NOT the same!  Any thoughts on this?
      >



      For those who do not know, "coprophagy" refers to the practice of
      eating one's own shit in order to extract the maximum food value.

      The creationist hemming and hawing over coprophagy and cud-chewing does
      nothing but demonstrate their familiarity with another variety of shit.(!)

      Here are my  "thoughts" of this:  Rabbits do chew the cud

      Rabbits are herbivores, animals that need to digest cellulose. This is done
      in a huge cecum (the starting point of the large intestines and the appendix)
      where cellulose is stored and digested with the help of specific bacteria.
      They will re-eat the regurgitated material (cud) after a process of
      fermentation, to be further digested and absorbed. To a degree it also
      resupplies the bacterial colonies in the cecum and appendix that incite
      fermentation. For the same purpose they will sometimes also eat some of their
      own excrement's. Eating "cud" is not synonymous with eating "shit." In
      essence, most herbivores (re)-eat cud. Crophogagy is eating dung, (not
      nessaryly your own), Cropophilia is a marked interest in excrement for sexual
      excitement, not consumption.
      The above argument hinges upon the right interpretation of cud and excrement.

      Here are the pertinent passages from the bible: (Unfortunately, the Bible
      does not have it's animal biology straight), But that is a different subject.

      LEVITICUS 11:5
      .......and he rabbit, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof it
      deviated not — unclean it [is] to you;

      DEUTERONOMY 14:4-7
      These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox the cheep and the goat.
      5. The hart and the roebuck.........
      6. And every beast that parted the hoof..........
      7  Only, this ye do not eat, of those bringing up the cud, and of those
      dividing the cloven hoof: the camel, and the hare, and the rabbit, for they
      are bringing up the cud but the hoof have not divided; unclean they [are] to
      you.

      Henry R.
      =======================================================
      Lenny Flank
      "There are no loose threads in the web of life"

    • lflank@ij.net
      ... No, they don t. Cud is a product of ruminants. Ruminants hold their food in a chamber of their stomach, and vomit up this stored food ( cud ) later for
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 24, 2001
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        On 24 Jun 01, at 20:11, henryhanno@... wrote:

        >
        > Here are my "thoughts" of this: Rabbits do chew the cud



        No, they don't. Cud is a product of ruminants. Ruminants hold
        their food in a chamber of their stomach, and vomit up this stored
        food ("cud") later for more processing. It's an adaptation that
        allows them to eat quickly and then retreat to a hiding spot to
        digest their food, thus minimizing their exposure to predators.



        > Rabbits are herbivores, animals that need to digest cellulose. This is
        > done in a huge cecum (the starting point of the large intestines and
        > the appendix) where cellulose is stored and digested with the help of
        > specific bacteria. They will re-eat the regurgitated material (cud)




        Rabbits do not eat cud or regurgitated material. Ruminants do
        that, and rabbits are not ruminants. Rabbits eat their shit, which
        still contains a lot of organic material that gets extratced as it
        passes through the gut a second time.

        Shit is not cud. Big difference.



        Eating "cud" is not
        > synonymous with eating "shit."



        That's right. Shit and cud are totally different. Rabbits eat shit.
        They do not eat cud.




        > Here are the pertinent passages from the bible: (Unfortunately, the
        > Bible does not have it's animal biology straight



        No kidding. It doesn't have much science straight. But this is all
        offtopic for this list.




        > LEVITICUS 11:5
        > .......and he rabbit, though it is bringing up the cud



        Rabbits do not "bring up cud".



        Only, this ye do not eat, of those
        > bringing up the cud, and of those dividing the cloven hoof: the camel,
        > and the hare, and the rabbit, for they are bringing up the cud


        Rabbits do not "bring up cud".




        =======================================================
        Lenny Flank
        "There are no loose threads in the web of life"

        Check out my reptile page:
        http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
        Suncoast Serpentarium
        http://www.suncoastserpentarium.org
        Creation "Science" Debunked:
        http://www.geocities.com/lflank
      • ANNE V. GILBERT
        Henry: For those who do not know, coprophagy refers to the practice of eating one s own shit in order to extract the maximum food value. The creationist
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 25, 2001
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          Henry:
           
          For those who do not know, "coprophagy" refers to the practice of
          eating one's own shit in order to extract the maximum food value.

          The creationist hemming and hawing over coprophagy and cud-chewing does
          nothing but demonstrate their familiarity with another variety of shit.(!)

          Here are my  "thoughts" of this:  Rabbits do chew the cud

          Rabbits are herbivores, animals that need to digest cellulose. This is done
          in a huge cecum (the starting point of the large intestines and the appendix)
          where cellulose is stored and digested with the help of specific bacteria.
          They will re-eat the regurgitated material (cud) after a process of
          fermentation, to be further digested and absorbed. To a degree it also
          resupplies the bacterial colonies in the cecum and appendix that incite
          fermentation. For the same purpose they will sometimes also eat some of their
          own excrement's. Eating "cud" is not synonymous with eating "shit." In
          essence, most herbivores (re)-eat cud. Crophogagy is eating dung, (not
          nessaryly your own), Cropophilia is a marked interest in excrement for sexual
          excitement, not consumption.
          The above argument hinges upon the right interpretation of cud and excrement.

          Here are the pertinent passages from the bible: (Unfortunately, the Bible
          does not have it's animal biology straight), But that is a different subject.

          LEVITICUS 11:5
          .......and he rabbit, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof it
          deviated not — unclean it [is] to you;

          DEUTERONOMY 14:4-7
          These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox the cheep and the goat.
          5. The hart and the roebuck.........
          6. And every beast that parted the hoof..........
          7  Only, this ye do not eat, of those bringing up the cud, and of those
          dividing the cloven hoof: the camel, and the hare, and the rabbit, for they
          are bringing up the cud but the hoof have not divided; unclean they [are] to
          you.

          Thanks for enlightening us (a) on the relevant passages in Leviticus and (b)the habits of rabbits.
          Anne G
        • lflank@ij.net
          ... Unfortunately his ideas on the habits of rabbits are simply wrong. Rabbits are not ruminants. They do not eat regurgitated cud. Instead, they eat their
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 25, 2001
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            On 25 Jun 01, at 11:48, ANNE V. GILBERT wrote:

            > Thanks for enlightening us (a) on the relevant passages in Leviticus
            > and (b)the habits of rabbits.


            Unfortunately his ideas on the habits of rabbits are simply wrong.
            Rabbits are not ruminants. They do not eat regurgitated cud.
            Instead, they eat their own shit, in order to re-process it and
            extract the maximum food value from it.



            =======================================================
            Lenny Flank
            "There are no loose threads in the web of life"

            Check out my reptile page:
            http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
            Suncoast Serpentarium
            http://www.suncoastserpentarium.org
            Creation "Science" Debunked:
            http://www.geocities.com/lflank
          • pastorb401@aol.com
            In a message dated 06/25/2001 4:13:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lflank@ij.net writes:
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 25, 2001
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              In a message dated 06/25/2001 4:13:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lflank@...
              writes:

              << Unfortunately his ideas on the habits of rabbits are simply wrong.
              Rabbits are not ruminants. They do not eat regurgitated cud.
              Instead, they eat their own shit, in order to re-process it and
              extract the maximum food value from it. >>

              I believe there is actually a specific term besides Copoprhagy used for
              rabbits...I think it is ceptophragy or something similiar.
            • ANNE V. GILBERT
              ... I know rabbits aren t ruminants. They don t, AFAIK, have chambered stomachs. And it didn t look like, from the description, they were chewing cud .
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 26, 2001
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                Lenny:

                > Unfortunately his ideas on the habits of rabbits are simply wrong.
                > Rabbits are not ruminants. They do not eat regurgitated cud.
                > Instead, they eat their own shit, in order to re-process it and
                > extract the maximum food value from it.

                I know rabbits aren't ruminants. They don't, AFAIK, have "chambered"
                stomachs. And it didn't look like, from the description, they were "chewing
                cud". Now that you mention it, though, I remember reading, *somewhere* that
                rabbits and hares and possibly other lagomorphs and rodents(not the same
                thing, BTW), eat their own waste in order to extract nutrition. These were
                the "habits of rabbits" I was referring to.
                Anne G
              • lflank@ij.net
                On 26 Jun 01, at 18:15, ANNE V. GILBERT wrote: Now that you mention it, though, I remember reading, ... Yep. Rabbits eat their own shit in order to extract
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 26, 2001
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                  On 26 Jun 01, at 18:15, ANNE V. GILBERT wrote:

                  Now that you mention it, though, I remember reading,
                  > *somewhere* that rabbits and hares and possibly other lagomorphs and
                  > rodents(not the same thing, BTW), eat their own waste in order to
                  > extract nutrition. These were the "habits of rabbits" I was referring
                  > to.


                  Yep. Rabbits eat their own shit in order to extract maximum food
                  value from it. They do not have cud and do not chew cud or any
                  other regurgitated material.

                  Guinea pigs also are coprophagous.



                  =======================================================
                  Lenny Flank
                  "There are no loose threads in the web of life"

                  Check out my reptile page:
                  http://www.geocities.com/lflank/herp.html
                  Suncoast Serpentarium
                  http://www.suncoastserpentarium.org
                  Creation "Science" Debunked:
                  http://www.geocities.com/lflank
                • feit@netspeed.com.au
                  ... and ... referring ... So do dogs, but I think they just do it to be gross 8-) - Elissa
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 26, 2001
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                    At Tue, 26 Jun 2001 23:49:30 -0400, you wrote:
                    >On 26 Jun 01, at 18:15, ANNE V. GILBERT wrote:
                    >
                    >Now that you mention it, though, I remember reading,
                    >> *somewhere* that rabbits and hares and possibly other lagomorphs
                    and
                    >> rodents(not the same thing, BTW), eat their own waste in order to
                    >> extract nutrition. These were the "habits of rabbits" I was
                    referring
                    >> to.
                    >
                    Lenny wrote:
                    >Yep. Rabbits eat their own shit in order to extract maximum food
                    >value from it.

                    So do dogs, but I think they just do it to be gross 8-)

                    - Elissa
                  • Ed Vinson
                    ... Why do I fool around with the Internet at all? Perhaps for items like this Dog Haiku : The cat is not all bad. Sometimes she leaves me Tootsie Rolls In
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 28, 2001
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                      > Lenny wrote:
                      > >Yep. Rabbits eat their own shit in order to extract maximum food
                      > >value from it.
                      >
                      > So do dogs, but I think they just do it to be gross 8-)
                      >
                      > - Elissa


                      Why do I fool around with the Internet at all? Perhaps for items like
                      this "Dog Haiku":

                      The cat is not all bad.
                      Sometimes she leaves me Tootsie Rolls
                      In the litterbox.

                      Ed
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