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Article on the US's North African and Middle Eastern framework of reference

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  • Michael Brass
    Good article, imo. http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/01/201113191947648929.html
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 1 3:06 AM
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    • Mike Torsberg
      Mike - Interesting read.  Got a question for everyone.  Assuming Obama comes out in support of the people of Egypt against Mubarak - How much support do you
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 1 7:11 AM
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        Mike - Interesting read.  Got a question for everyone.  Assuming Obama comes out in support of the people of Egypt against Mubarak - How much support do you think Obama and the U.S. can give the people (which most people think we should do), without interfearing in the internal affairs of Egypt?
        Mike Torsberg

        From: Michael Brass <mike@...>
        To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 6:06:31 AM
        Subject: [DebunkCreation] Article on the US's North African and Middle Eastern framework of reference

         

        Good article, imo.

        http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/01/201113191947648929.html


      • Michael Brass
        ... The best the US can do is express their support for democratically elected leaders and to ensure their cash is funneled down to the general public instead
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 1 7:23 AM
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          > Assuming Obama comes out in support of the people of Egypt against Mubarak - How much support do you think Obama and the U.S. can give the people (which most people think we should do), without interfearing in the internal affairs of Egypt?

          The best the US can do is express their support for democratically
          elected leaders and to ensure their cash is funneled down to the
          general public instead of going into the hands of the regime.
        • Carlos Jones
          Obama has to thread carefully. The US has to be careful how it provides support to the people of Egypt. It cannot interfere directly in the internal affairs
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 1 7:28 AM
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            Obama has to thread carefully.  The US has to be careful how it provides support to the people of Egypt.  It cannot interfere directly in the internal affairs of the country. What the President can do is to encourage the leaders to yield to the wishes of the people. 



            From: Mike Torsberg <miket6562@...>
            To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 7:11:08 AM
            Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Article on the US's North African and Middle Eastern framework of reference

             

            Mike - Interesting read.  Got a question for everyone.  Assuming Obama comes out in support of the people of Egypt against Mubarak - How much support do you think Obama and the U.S. can give the people (which most people think we should do), without interfearing in the internal affairs of Egypt?
            Mike Torsberg

            From: Michael Brass <mike@...>
            To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 6:06:31 AM
            Subject: [DebunkCreation] Article on the US's North African and Middle Eastern framework of reference

             


          • Lenny Flank
            ... We aren t terribly popular in Egypt, mostly because we ve backed Mubarak for decades--the typical problem that America ALWAYS faces when a dictator it
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 1 10:16 AM
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              --- On Tue, 2/1/11, Mike Torsberg <miket6562@...> wrote:

              > Interesting read.  Got a question for everyone.  Assuming Obama comes out in support of the people of Egypt against Mubarak - How much support do you think Obama and the U.S. can give the people (which most people think we should do), without interfearing in the internal affairs of Egypt?

              We aren't terribly popular in Egypt, mostly because we've backed Mubarak for decades--the typical problem that America ALWAYS faces when a dictator it supports gets overthrown.

              The best thing we can do is . . . nothing. Cut Mubarak loose, let him on his own, and let nature take its course. Since Mubarak has already apparently lost the army's support, he's doomed.

              It would be an enormous mistake on our part to try to broker some deal whereby Mubarak steps down to be replaced by someone other person we've chosen who is friendly to our interests. But, alas, if history is any guide, that's what we'll do anyway.


              ================================================
              Lenny Flank
              "There are no loose threads in the web of life"

              Editor, Red and Black Publishers
              http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com
            • Lenny Flank
              ... Yep. The problem, though, is that the interests of the Egyptian people and the interests of the US are not the same (particularly if Mubarak s fall sparks
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 1 10:24 AM
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                --- On Tue, 2/1/11, Carlos Jones <advantage_1998@...> wrote:
                > Obama has to thread carefully.  The US has to be careful how it provides support to the people of Egypt.  It cannot interfere directly in the internal affairs of the country. What the President can do is to encourage the leaders to yield to the wishes of the people. 


                Yep. The problem, though, is that the interests of the Egyptian people and the interests of the US are not the same (particularly if Mubarak's fall sparks similar uprisings all over the Arab world). Mubarak was (I speak of him in the past tense because his departure is all but certain) our point man in the Middle East, just like the Shah was--he was the major force keeping the anti-Israel front in check. The US always mouths lots of support for democracy, but only so long as democracy concurs with our interests. If we start seeing lots of Islamist or anti-Israel sentiment rise in Egypt (and I agree with others that it's unlikely in Egypt but NOT unlikely in other countries like Saudi Arabia), then the US will face a stark choice--do we defend the democratic right of Egyptians to decide their own direction, or do we defend US interests and oppose the Egyptian people. Historically, we have defended our own interests, every time.


                ================================================
                Lenny Flank
                "There are no loose threads in the web of life"

                Editor, Red and Black Publishers
                http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com
              • Mike Torsberg
                ________________________________ From: Lenny Flank To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:16:07 PM Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 1 12:39 PM
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                  From: Lenny Flank <lflank@...>
                  To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 1:16:07 PM
                  Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Article on the US's North African and Middle Eastern framework of reference

                   

                  --- On Tue, 2/1/11, Mike Torsberg <miket6562@...> wrote:

                  >> Interesting read.  Got a question for everyone.  Assuming Obama comes out in support of the people of Egypt against Mubarak - How much support do you think Obama and the U.S. can give the people (which most people think we should do), without interfearing in the internal affairs of Egypt?

                  >We aren't terribly popular in Egypt, mostly because we've backed Mubarak for decades--the typical problem that America ALWAYS faces when a dictator it supports gets overthrown.

                  >The best thing we can do is . . . nothing. Cut Mubarak loose, let him on his own, and let nature take its course. Since Mubarak has already apparently lost the army's support, he's doomed.

                  >It would be an enormous mistake on our part to try to broker some deal whereby Mubarak steps down to be replaced by someone other person we've chosen who is friendly to our interests. But, alas, if history is any guide, that's what we'll do anyway.

                  I see now that Mubarak has changed his mind and won't run for re-election in the fall.  It's all starting to crumble.  Here's an op-ed piece on what one person thinks Obama should do.

                   

                  http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-must-redefine-aims-of-aid-to-egypt-2011-01-31?dist=countdown

                   

                  Mike Torsberg


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