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Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning

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  • Mike Torsberg
    Let s see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
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      Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000 is doable....
       
      Mike Torsberg


      From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
      To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning

       

      I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
      Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.

      Deal? :-)

      On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
      > Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
      > everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
      > had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it
      > came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
      > multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern accent.
      > People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
      >
      > Lenny Flank
      >
      > On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
      >
      >>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
      >>
      >>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
      >>>
      >>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you
      >>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
      >>> British accent.
      >>>
      >>> Lenny Flank
      >>>
      >>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
      >>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
      >>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
      >>>>> different.
      >>>>>   Anne G
      >>>>>
      >>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
      >>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
      >>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
      >>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
      >>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes of
      >>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
      >>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
      >>>>
      >>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
      >>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent is
      >>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
      >>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
      >>>>
      >>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
      >>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
      >>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
      >>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near as
      >>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican
      >>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
      >>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers
      >>>> are upmarket and well educated.
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ------------------------------------
      >>>
      >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Sent from my mobile device


    • Lenny Flank
      Yep. Most of the rednecks are in the Panhadle near Georgia and Alabama. Not many Northerners move there--there ain t much there that anyone would move there
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
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        Yep. Most of the rednecks are in the Panhadle near Georgia and Alabama.

        Not many Northerners move there--there ain't much there that anyone would move there for.

        Lenny Flank

        On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:38 PM EDT isaac peterson wrote:

        >A few years ago I was in St. Petersburg for a fellowship at the Poynter
        >Institute and I commented on the "lack" of southern accents. I was told
        >that in Florida the further north you go, the further "south" you are.
        >
        >Lenny Flank wrote:
        >> Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern accent. People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
        >>
        >> Lenny Flank
        >>
        >> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>> Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are. ;)
        >>>>
        >>>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a British accent.
        >>>>
        >>>> Lenny Flank
        >>>>
        >>>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>> Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit different.
        >>>>>> Anne G
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>
        >>>>> it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes of Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The issue pervades into much of the print media.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent is a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
        >>>>>
        >>>>> In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either. The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near as religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers are upmarket and well educated.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> ------------------------------------
        >>>>
        >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
      • Michael Brass
        I require proof *grins* ... -- Sent from my mobile device
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
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          I require proof *grins*

          On 03/06/2010, Mike Torsberg <miket6562@...> wrote:
          > Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the
          > population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there
          > should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the
          > population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that
          > South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000
          > is doable....
          >
          > Mike Torsberg
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
          > To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
          > Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the
          > UK Telegraph this morning
          >
          >
          > I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
          > Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
          >
          > Deal? :-)
          >
          > On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
          >> Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
          >> everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
          >> had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it
          >> came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
          >> multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern
          >> accent.
          >> People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
          >>
          >> Lenny Flank
          >>
          >> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
          >>
          >>>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
          >>>
          >>>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
          >>>>
          >>>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you
          >>>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
          >>>> British accent.
          >>>>
          >>>> Lenny Flank
          >>>>
          >>>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
          >>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
          >>>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
          >>>>>> different.
          >>>>>>   Anne G
          >>>>>>
          >>>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
          >>>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
          >>>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
          >>>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
          >>>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes
          >>>>> of
          >>>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
          >>>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
          >>>>>
          >>>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
          >>>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent
          >>>>> is
          >>>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
          >>>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
          >>>>>
          >>>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
          >>>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
          >>>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
          >>>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near
          >>>>> as
          >>>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican
          >>>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
          >>>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers
          >>>>> are upmarket and well educated.
          >>>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> ------------------------------------
          >>>>
          >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          > --
          > Sent from my mobile device
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Sent from my mobile device
        • Lenny Flank
          Unfair--I doubt that many Texans could spell Africa to look it upm ;) (My apologies to any Texans out there--I know not *everybody* in Texas is an uneducated
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
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            Unfair--I doubt that many Texans could spell "Africa" to look it upm

            ;)

            (My apologies to any Texans out there--I know not *everybody* in Texas is an uneducated moron. Just the ones who vote.

            ;)

            Lenny Flank

            On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:44 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:

            >I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
            >Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
            >
            >Deal? :-)
            >
            >On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
            >> Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
            >> everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
            >> had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it
            >> came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
            >> multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern accent.
            >> People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
            >>
            >> Lenny Flank
            >>
            >> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
            >>
            >>>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
            >>>
            >>>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
            >>>>
            >>>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you
            >>>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
            >>>> British accent.
            >>>>
            >>>> Lenny Flank
            >>>>
            >>>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
            >>>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
            >>>>>> different.
            >>>>>>   Anne G
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
            >>>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
            >>>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
            >>>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
            >>>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes of
            >>>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
            >>>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
            >>>>>
            >>>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
            >>>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent is
            >>>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
            >>>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
            >>>>>
            >>>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
            >>>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
            >>>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
            >>>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near as
            >>>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican
            >>>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
            >>>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers
            >>>>> are upmarket and well educated.
            >>>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>> ------------------------------------
            >>>>
            >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >--
            >Sent from my mobile device
          • Lenny Flank
            Ahhh, but you forget--all those Latinos aren t really Americans anyway. ... Lenny Flank
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
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              Ahhh, but you forget--all those Latinos aren't really Americans anyway.

              :(

              Lenny Flank

              On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:52 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:

              >Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000 is doable....
              >
              >Mike Torsberg
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >________________________________
              >From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
              >To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
              >Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
              >

              >I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
              >Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
              >
              >Deal? :-)
              >
              >On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
              >> Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
              >> everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
              >> had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it
              >> came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
              >> multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern accent.
              >> People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
              >>
              >> Lenny Flank
              >>
              >> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
              >>
              >>>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
              >>>
              >>>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
              >>>>
              >>>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you
              >>>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
              >>>> British accent.
              >>>>
              >>>> Lenny Flank
              >>>>
              >>>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
              >>>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
              >>>>>> different.
              >>>>>>   Anne G
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
              >>>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
              >>>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
              >>>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
              >>>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes of
              >>>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
              >>>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
              >>>>>
              >>>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
              >>>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent is
              >>>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
              >>>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
              >>>>>
              >>>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
              >>>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
              >>>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
              >>>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near as
              >>>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican
              >>>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
              >>>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers
              >>>>> are upmarket and well educated.
              >>>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>> ------------------------------------
              >>>>
              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >--
              >Sent from my mobile device
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Michael Brass
              Ok I ll make it easier. How about 9999 from Utah? Come on, you love a challenge ;-) ... -- Sent from my mobile device
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
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                Ok I'll make it easier. How about 9999 from Utah? Come on, you love a
                challenge ;-)

                On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
                > Unfair--I doubt that many Texans could spell "Africa" to look it upm
                >
                > ;)
                >
                > (My apologies to any Texans out there--I know not *everybody* in Texas is an
                > uneducated moron. Just the ones who vote.
                >
                > ;)
                >
                > Lenny Flank
                >
                > On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:44 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
                >
                >>I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                >>Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                >>
                >>Deal? :-)
                >>
                >>On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
                >>> Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
                >>> everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
                >>> had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of
                >>> it
                >>> came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
                >>> multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern
                >>> accent.
                >>> People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
                >>>
                >>> Lenny Flank
                >>>
                >>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
                >>>
                >>>>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
                >>>>
                >>>>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
                >>>>>
                >>>>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give
                >>>>> you
                >>>>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
                >>>>> British accent.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> Lenny Flank
                >>>>>
                >>>>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
                >>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
                >>>>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
                >>>>>>> different.
                >>>>>>>   Anne G
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
                >>>>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
                >>>>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
                >>>>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
                >>>>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes
                >>>>>> of
                >>>>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
                >>>>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
                >>>>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent
                >>>>>> is
                >>>>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
                >>>>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
                >>>>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
                >>>>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
                >>>>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near
                >>>>>> as
                >>>>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the
                >>>>>> Anglican
                >>>>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
                >>>>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its
                >>>>>> readers
                >>>>>> are upmarket and well educated.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>> ------------------------------------
                >>>>>
                >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> ------------------------------------
                >>>
                >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >>--
                >>Sent from my mobile device
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Sent from my mobile device
              • Mike Torsberg
                OK - my sister is one.  She was active in the anti-apartheid movement from her University of Texas days.  That leaves 9,999 to go.... :-) Mike Torsberg
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  OK - my sister is one.  She was active in the anti-apartheid movement from her University of Texas days.  That leaves 9,999 to go.... :-)
                   
                  Mike Torsberg


                  From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
                  To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 1:13:27 PM
                  Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning

                   

                  I require proof *grins*

                  On 03/06/2010, Mike Torsberg <miket6562@...> wrote:
                  > Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the
                  > population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there
                  > should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the
                  > population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that
                  > South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000
                  > is doable....
                  >
                  > Mike Torsberg
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
                  > To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the
                  > UK Telegraph this morning
                  >
                  >
                  > I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                  > Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                  >
                  > Deal? :-)
                  >
                  > On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
                  >> Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
                  >> everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
                  >> had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it
                  >> came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
                  >> multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern
                  >> accent.
                  >> People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
                  >>
                  >> Lenny Flank
                  >>
                  >> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
                  >>
                  >>>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
                  >>>
                  >>>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you
                  >>>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
                  >>>> British accent.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Lenny Flank
                  >>>>
                  >>>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
                  >>>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
                  >>>>>> different.
                  >>>>>>   Anne G
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
                  >>>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
                  >>>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
                  >>>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
                  >>>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes
                  >>>>> of
                  >>>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
                  >>>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
                  >>>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent
                  >>>>> is
                  >>>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
                  >>>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
                  >>>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
                  >>>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
                  >>>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near
                  >>>>> as
                  >>>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican
                  >>>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
                  >>>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers
                  >>>>> are upmarket and well educated.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------------
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > --
                  > Sent from my mobile device
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Sent from my mobile device


                • Mike Torsberg
                  I know - even the ones who s ancestors lived in Texas when Texas was part of Mexico... My dad still can t figure out how they got to be U.S. citizens without
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I know - even the ones who's ancestors lived in Texas when Texas was part of Mexico... My dad still can't figure out how they got to be U.S. citizens without speaking English.
                     
                    Mike Torsberg


                    From: Lenny Flank <lflank@...>
                    To: debunkcreation@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 1:19:09 PM
                    Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning

                     

                    Ahhh, but you forget--all those Latinos aren't really Americans anyway.

                    :(

                    Lenny Flank

                    On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:52 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:

                    >Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000 is doable....
                    >
                    >Mike Torsberg
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >________________________________
                    >From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
                    >To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
                    >Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
                    >Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
                    >

                    >I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                    >Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                    >
                    >Deal? :-)
                    >


                  • Lenny Flank
                    Most Americans don t even know that the Treaty of Hidalgo-Guadelupe, whih ended the Mexican War, guarantees free mnovement across the border for both Mexican
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Most Americans don't even know that the Treaty of Hidalgo-Guadelupe, whih ended the Mexican War, guarantees free mnovement across the border for both Mexican and American citizens, so that family members that were separated by the border could still visit each other.

                      Lenny Flank

                      On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 2:49 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:

                      >I know - even the ones who's ancestors lived in Texas when Texas was part of Mexico... My dad still can't figure out how they got to be U.S. citizens without speaking English.
                      >
                      >Mike Torsberg
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >________________________________
                      >From: Lenny Flank <lflank@...>
                      >To: debunkcreation@yahoogroups.com
                      >Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 1:19:09 PM
                      >Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
                      >

                      >Ahhh, but you forget--all those Latinos aren't really Americans anyway.
                      >
                      >:(
                      >
                      >Lenny Flank
                      >
                      >On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:52 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:
                      >
                      >>Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000 is doable....
                      >>
                      >>Mike Torsberg
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>________________________________
                      >>From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
                      >>To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
                      >>Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
                      >>Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
                      >>
                      >> 
                      >>I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                      >>Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                      >>
                      >>Deal? :-)
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Anne Gilbert
                      Lenny: Jeez. That sounds a lot like Seattle! Practically nobody is a native Seattleite. I m one of the few. I was born and bred here. Both my mother and
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Lenny:
                         
                        Jeez. That sounds a lot like Seattle!  Practically nobody is a native Seattleite. I'm one of the few.  I was born and bred here. Both my mother and father lived here most of their lives, but even they were born elsewhere.  My mother was born in Wallla Walla Washington.  I should know where my father was born, but I can't remember, though it, too, was in Washington State.
                         
                        Anne G

                         

                        Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern accent. People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.

                        Lenny Flank

                        On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:

                        >Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
                        >
                        >> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
                        >>
                        >> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a British accent.
                        >>
                        >> Lenny Flank
                        >>
                        >> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
                        >>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit different.
                        >>>>   Anne G
                        >>>>
                        >>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes of Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The issue pervades into much of the print media.
                        >>>
                        >>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent is a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
                        >>>
                        >>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either. The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near as religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers are upmarket and well educated.
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>

                      • Anne Gilbert
                        Mike T and Mike B: I know, I know. The idiots in Texas do far outnumber the more intelligent types. And yes, there is a huge percentage -- I forget what it is
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          
                          Mike T and Mike B:
                           
                          I know, I know. The idiots in Texas do far outnumber the more intelligent types. And yes, there is a huge percentage -- I forget what it is now -- of Latinos/Hispanics in Texas, and the Anglos have, over the years done their best to keep them out of politics, but now they're in there like every other ethnic group you can think of. But I think an estimate of "only" 10,000 smart people is a little low.  Even for Texas.
                          Anne G
                           
                           

                           

                          Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000 is doable....
                           
                          Mike Torsberg


                          From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@ gmail.com>
                          To: DebunkCreation@ yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
                          Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning

                           

                          I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                          Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.

                          Deal? :-)

                          On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          > Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
                          > everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
                          > had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it
                          > came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
                          > multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern accent.
                          > People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
                          >
                          > Lenny Flank
                          >
                          > On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
                          >
                          >>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
                          >>
                          >>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
                          >>>
                          >>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you
                          >>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
                          >>> British accent.
                          >>>
                          >>> Lenny Flank
                          >>>
                          >>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
                          >>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
                          >>>>> different.
                          >>>>>   Anne G
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
                          >>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
                          >>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
                          >>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
                          >>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes of
                          >>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
                          >>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
                          >>>>
                          >>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
                          >>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent is
                          >>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
                          >>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
                          >>>>
                          >>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
                          >>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
                          >>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
                          >>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near as
                          >>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican
                          >>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
                          >>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers
                          >>>> are upmarket and well educated.
                          >>>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
                          >>>
                          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          --
                          Sent from my mobile device


                        • Anne Gilbert
                          Lenny: It s not just the morons in Texas who vote, though there seem to be more of them in that state than the other kind. There are some little blue
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Lenny:
                             
                            It's not just the morons in Texas who vote, though there seem to be more of them in that state than the other kind.  There are some little blue "islands" in a red-state sea there.  I mean, Austin, Houston, and San Antonio especially.  Maybe even Dallas, but I'm not so sure of that one.
                            Anne G
                            ----- 

                            Unfair--I doubt that many Texans could spell "Africa" to look it upm

                            ;)

                            (My apologies to any Texans out there--I know not *everybody* in Texas is an uneducated moron. Just the ones who vote.

                            ;)

                            Lenny Flank

                            On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:44 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:

                            >I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                            >Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                            >
                            >Deal? :-)
                            >
                            >On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
                            >> Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
                            >> everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
                            >> had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it
                            >> came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
                            >> multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern accent.
                            >> People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
                            >>
                            >> Lenny Flank
                            >>
                            >> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
                            >>
                            >>>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
                            >>>
                            >>>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you
                            >>>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
                            >>>> British accent.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Lenny Flank
                            >>>>
                            >>>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
                            >>>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
                            >>>>>> different.
                            >>>>>>   Anne G
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
                            >>>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
                            >>>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
                            >>>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
                            >>>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes of
                            >>>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
                            >>>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
                            >>>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent is
                            >>>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
                            >>>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
                            >>>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
                            >>>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
                            >>>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near as
                            >>>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican
                            >>>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
                            >>>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers
                            >>>>> are upmarket and well educated.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>> ------------------------------------
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >--
                            >Sent from my mobile device

                          • Anne Gilbert
                            Mike: Pfffftttt!!!! Anne G I know - even the ones who s ancestors lived in Texas when Texas was part of Mexico... My dad still can t figure out how they got to
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Mike:
                               
                              Pfffftttt!!!!
                              Anne G

                               

                              I know - even the ones who's ancestors lived in Texas when Texas was part of Mexico... My dad still can't figure out how they got to be U.S. citizens without speaking English.
                               
                              Mike Torsberg


                              From: Lenny Flank <lflank@yahoo. com>
                              To: debunkcreation@ yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 1:19:09 PM
                              Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning

                               

                              Ahhh, but you forget--all those Latinos aren't really Americans anyway.

                              :(

                              Lenny Flank

                              On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:52 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:

                              >Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000 is doable....
                              >
                              >Mike Torsberg
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >____________ _________ _________ __
                              >From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@ gmail.com>
                              >To: DebunkCreation@ yahoogroups. com
                              >Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
                              >Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
                              >

                              >I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                              >Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                              >
                              >Deal? :-)
                              >


                            • Anne Gilbert
                              Lenny: So why do we have that stupid wall at the border of the US and Mexico? I know, I know. it s those horrible undocumented immigrants. . . . and most of
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Lenny:
                                 
                                So why do we have that stupid wall at the border of the US and Mexico?  I know, I know. it's those horrible undocumented immigrants. . . . and most of them , while here, have committed no crime except in the technical sense of staying beyond their visas, for which they often try to get extensions or green cards or some such, but these don't get processed for some reason.
                                Anne G

                                 

                                Most Americans don't even know that the Treaty of Hidalgo-Guadelupe, whih ended the Mexican War, guarantees free mnovement across the border for both Mexican and American citizens, so that family members that were separated by the border could still visit each other.

                                Lenny Flank

                                On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 2:49 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:

                                >I know - even the ones who's ancestors lived in Texas when Texas was part of Mexico... My dad still can't figure out how they got to be U.S. citizens without speaking English.
                                >
                                >Mike Torsberg
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >________________________________
                                >From: Lenny Flank <lflank@...>
                                >To: debunkcreation@yahoogroups.com
                                >Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 1:19:09 PM
                                >Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
                                >

                                >Ahhh, but you forget--all those Latinos aren't really Americans anyway.
                                >
                                >:(
                                >
                                >Lenny Flank
                                >
                                >On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:52 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:
                                >
                                >>Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000 is doable....
                                >>
                                >>Mike Torsberg
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>________________________________
                                >>From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
                                >>To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
                                >>Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
                                >>Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
                                >>
                                >> 
                                >>I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                                >>Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                                >>
                                >>Deal? :-)
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

                              • Anne Gilbert
                                Mike: I think Utah is an entirely different proposition altogether. Anne G Ok I ll make it easier. How about 9999 from Utah? Come on, you love a challenge ;-)
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Mike:
                                   
                                  I think Utah is an entirely different proposition altogether.
                                  Anne G

                                   

                                  Ok I'll make it easier. How about 9999 from Utah? Come on, you love a
                                  challenge ;-)

                                  On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
                                  > Unfair--I doubt that many Texans could spell "Africa" to look it upm
                                  >
                                  > ;)
                                  >
                                  > (My apologies to any Texans out there--I know not *everybody* in Texas is an
                                  > uneducated moron. Just the ones who vote.
                                  >
                                  > ;)
                                  >
                                  > Lenny Flank
                                  >
                                  > On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:44 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                                  >>Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                                  >>
                                  >>Deal? :-)
                                  >>
                                  >>On 03/06/2010, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
                                  >>> Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost
                                  >>> everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has
                                  >>> had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of
                                  >>> it
                                  >>> came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a
                                  >>> multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern
                                  >>> accent.
                                  >>> People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Lenny Flank
                                  >>>
                                  >>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>>>Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> We're not the ones with the accent--you are.  ;)
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give
                                  >>>>> you
                                  >>>>> an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a
                                  >>>>> British accent.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> Lenny Flank
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>   Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux
                                  >>>>>>> News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit
                                  >>>>>>> different.
                                  >>>>>>>   Anne G
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as
                                  >>>>>> extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in
                                  >>>>>> that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and
                                  >>>>>> balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in
                                  >>>>>> Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes
                                  >>>>>> of
                                  >>>>>> Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The
                                  >>>>>> issue pervades into much of the print media.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we
                                  >>>>>> produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent
                                  >>>>>> is
                                  >>>>>> a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or
                                  >>>>>> reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the
                                  >>>>>> Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either.
                                  >>>>>> The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a
                                  >>>>>> coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near
                                  >>>>>> as
                                  >>>>>> religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the
                                  >>>>>> Anglican
                                  >>>>>> Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and
                                  >>>>>> relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its
                                  >>>>>> readers
                                  >>>>>> are upmarket and well educated.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> ------------------------------------
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> ------------------------------------
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>
                                  >>--
                                  >>Sent from my mobile device
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  Sent from my mobile device

                                • Steve S
                                  ... I don t believe this is true. I just read the entire treaty and find nothing that guarantees the free movement of citizens of Mexico into the U.S. I do
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Most Americans don't even know that the Treaty of Hidalgo-Guadelupe, whih ended the Mexican War, guarantees free mnovement across the border for both Mexican and American citizens, so that family members that were separated by the border could still visit each other.
                                    >

                                    I don't believe this is true. I just read the entire treaty and find nothing that guarantees the free movement of citizens of Mexico into the U.S. I do find that Mexico guarantees that U.S. citizens will have free access to the Gila river and the Gulf of California.

                                    > Lenny Flank
                                    >
                                    > On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 2:49 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >I know - even the ones who's ancestors lived in Texas when Texas was part of Mexico... My dad still can't figure out how they got to be U.S. citizens without speaking English.
                                    > >
                                    > >Mike Torsberg
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >________________________________
                                    > >From: Lenny Flank <lflank@...>
                                    > >To: debunkcreation@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 1:19:09 PM
                                    > >Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
                                    > >
                                    > > 
                                    > >Ahhh, but you forget--all those Latinos aren't really Americans anyway.
                                    > >
                                    > >:(
                                    > >
                                    > >Lenny Flank
                                    > >
                                    > >On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:52 PM EDT Mike Torsberg wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >>Let's see... Texas has almost 25 million people.  Even if only 1% of the population is not totally pig ignorant, that means that 250,000 people there should know that South Africa is a country.  Plus, a large percentage of the population is Hispanic, and really into soccer, so they should know that South Africa is the country hosting the World Cup.  I think finding 10,000 is doable....
                                    > >>
                                    > >>Mike Torsberg
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>________________________________
                                    > >>From: Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...>
                                    > >>To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >>Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 12:44:44 PM
                                    > >>Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning
                                    > >>
                                    > >> 
                                    > >>I'll stop saying Yanks if you can find me 10 000 Texans who know South
                                    > >>Africa is a country and not a geographical reference.
                                    > >>
                                    > >>Deal? :-)
                                    > >>
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Lenny Flank
                                    ... An interesting story--I had not read the Treaty, but had heard at several different times that the Treaty specified an open border to allow families to
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
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                                      --- On Thu, 6/3/10, Steve S <stevesommers56@...> wrote:

                                      > I don't believe this is true. I just read the entire treaty and find nothing that guarantees the free movement of citizens of Mexico into the U.S. I do find that Mexico guarantees that U.S. citizens will have free access to the Gila river and the Gulf of California.



                                      An interesting story--I had not read the Treaty, but had heard at several different times that the Treaty specified an open border to allow families to visit each other.

                                      A bit of research now shows me that this was indeed not actually written into the treaty, but was nevertheless US government policy for decades after the war ended. The US-Mexican border was open for almost 80 years, with over a million Mexicans crossing into the US, where they retained their Mexican citizenship but owned land in the US, got jobs, founded businesses, and paid taxes to the US. A smaller number of people moved freely in the opposite direction, from the US to Mexico (the Mexican government began a program of using financial incentives to encourage people to live in the sparsely-settled northern parts of Mexico).

                                      That situation didn't change until the 30's (the US Border Patrol wasn't even established until 1924, and didn't begin actively patrolling the Mexican border for almost a decade after that), when the US, in response to the threat of war with Germany, sealed off the border and "encouraged" almost a million Mexican citizens who had been freely living and working in the Southwest to leave the US. In many cases, the property that they owned in the US was confiscated (although the Hidalgo Treaty had originally guaranteed the property rights of Mexicans who now involuntarily found themselves in the US, that portion of the treaty was dropped at the insistence of the US, and much of the property held by former Mexican citizens was taken, through various "legal" measures, by white Americans in the years after the Mexican War--there are still currently legal fights being waged in US courts for the return of that land to the heirs of its original Mexican owners).

                                      And indeed it was not just Mexicans who were affected when the open border suddenly became non-open --- the Tohono Indian tribe had, for thousands of years, lived in an area that was involuntarily bisected by the US-Mexico border after the Mexican War and the Gadsden Purchase, with part of their tribal land in Mexico and the other part in the US. They too moved freely across the border until the 30's when it was sealed off, cutting the tribe in two and separating family members on different sides of the border. The Tohono tribe is currently fighting in both Mexican and US courts for the right to once again freely cross the US-Mexican border from one part of their tribal territory to the other.

                                      Interesting.


                                      ================================================
                                      Lenny Flank
                                      "There are no loose threads in the web of life"

                                      Editor, Red and Black Publishers
                                      http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com
                                    • Lenny Flank
                                      ... Some further research, and some further info: The Hidalgo treaty granted US citizenship to any Mexican who decided to stay on the US side after the border
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 3, 2010
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                                        --- On Fri, 6/4/10, Lenny Flank <lflank@...> wrote:

                                        > A bit of research now shows me that this was indeed not actually written into the treaty, but was nevertheless US government policy for decades after the war ended.


                                        Some further research, and some further info:

                                        The Hidalgo treaty granted US citizenship to any Mexican who decided to stay on the US side after the border was established. At that time, the position of the US government was (and IIRC still is) that once an individual becomes a US citizen, that individual and his children remain US citizens in perpetuity, even if they move out of the country, unless they renounce that citizenship--and US citizens, by definition, have the inherent right to re-enter the US at any time. If I move to Australia, for instance, I'm still a US citizen (unless I renounce my US citizenship and become an Australian citizen), and my kids are also US citizens, and so are their kids, as children of US citizens--and as US citizens any of us can freely return to the US at any time we want.

                                        So, the position of the US courts and government for some time was that all of the Mexicans who were granted US citizenship by the Hidalgo treaty could, if they wished, cross the border into Mexico (it was at the time an open border with both Americans and Mexicans freely crossing and living on both sides of the border), and having crossed into Mexico they could then, as American citizens, freely cross back any time they wanted--and so could their descendents (who were all also US citizens by virtue of being the children of a US citizen).

                                        So even though the Hidalgo treaty did not specifically grant the right of free border crossing, it was interpreted by the US as indeed incorporating that right for anyone who was granted citizenship as a result of the Treaty--including anyone who was born in Mexico of Mexican-American parents.

                                        The problem arose later when the US attempted to seal off the border, and was utterly unable to tell which Mexicans were Mexicans, and which were American citizens by virtue of their being born to Mexicans who had been granted American citizenship under the Hidalgo Treaty--so the US just kept them ALL out and kicked out as many as it could of those already here.

                                        So under the interpretation held by the US after the Mexican War, any current "illegal immigrant" who can trace his or her ancestry back to someone who was granted US citizenship under the Hidalgo treaty would be, in fact, an American citizen, and therefore entitled to freely enter the US whenever he or she wants, even if he or she was born in Mexico.

                                        Interesting.



                                        ================================================
                                        Lenny Flank
                                        "There are no loose threads in the web of life"

                                        Editor, Red and Black Publishers
                                        http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com
                                      • Roger
                                        ... Count youself lucky, Anne. Winchester has a notoriety about it s inbred locals who have lived here for generations. They are known as the Winchester
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 4, 2010
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                                          --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, "Anne Gilbert" <avgilbert@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Lenny:
                                          >
                                          > Jeez. That sounds a lot like Seattle! Practically nobody is a native Seattleite. I'm one of the few. I was born and bred here. Both my mother and father lived here most of their lives, but even they were born elsewhere. My mother was born in Wallla Walla Washington. I should know where my father was born, but I can't remember, though it, too, was in Washington State.
                                          >
                                          > Anne G
                                          >
                                          Count youself lucky, Anne. Winchester has a notoriety about it's inbred locals who have lived here for generations. They are known as the Winchester Twitchers; because of inbreeding they twitch when they speak. If not they dribble out of the sides of their mouths. You really know they are an inbred local when they walk away dragging their club foot behind them.

                                          It's even worse on the Isle of Wight where the locals are known as corkheads. They call people from the mainland overners and don't accept them until their family has lived for at least three generations on the island.

                                          The term corkhead relates to them being able to float headupwards in water (not much between the ears except cork, you see). Every now and again one of the corkhaeds tries to test the paternity of its baby by chucking them off the end of Ryde Pier to see if they float and therefore have a genuine corkhead father. Unfortunately the corkheads are so dim they rarely check to see if the tide is out.

                                          This is all absolutely true of course.

                                          >
                                          > Oddly enough, here in Florida, "Yankee" means "Northener", but almost everyone here has a Northern accent--even the TV newscasters. Florida has had an enormous population increase over the past 20 years, and most of it came from Northerners moving down here. So it's relatively rare to meet a multi-generation Floridian, and virtually nobody here has a Southern accent. People in Tampa sound more like Chicago than Atlanta.
                                          >
                                          > Lenny Flank
                                          >
                                          > On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 12:22 PM EDT Michael Brass wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >Nah we are far too worldly;-) I give you a Yankie accent.
                                          > >
                                          > >> We're not the ones with the accent--you are. ;)
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Of course, every time I read one of your posts, I automatically give you an American accent. And I suppose you must automatically give me a British accent.
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Lenny Flank
                                          > >>
                                          > >> On Thu Jun 3rd, 2010 10:34 AM EDT Roger wrote:
                                          > >>
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>> Basically it sounds as though the Telegraph is a lot like Faux News(sigh), even if the demographics in each case may be a bit different.
                                          > >>>> Anne G
                                          > >>>>
                                          > >>>it certainly includes some Fox News-type wingnuttery but its not as extreme. The media faces a different culture in the UK than the USA in that broadcasting regulation requires TV and radio to carry fair and balanced news. Moreover, the BBC is by far the dominant broadcaster in Britain. So the public are used to "balanced" reporting. The extremes of Fox News would look to be what they are and would turn many off. The issue pervades into much of the print media.
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>>By and large, American TV programming is not popular in the UK (we produce our own home grown rubbish) despite a common lamguage. Accent is a real problem (it's impossible to get a job as a news reader or reporter in UK broadcasting if you have an American accent).
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>>In general the UK is well to the political left of the USA - even the Torygraph is left wing by US standards. It's not gonna change either. The Tory party itself has just swung very leftwards thanks to a coalition with the Liberal Democrats. Finally, the UK is nowhere near as religious as the USA and where it is, the dominant sect is the Anglican Church. Fundies are basically seen as downmarket, working class and relatively poorly educated. The Torygraph, bizarrly, thinks its readers are upmarket and well educated.
                                          > >>>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> ------------------------------------
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          > >>
                                          >
                                        • gayle22864
                                          ... Well, I m a Texan and I know South Africa is a country. Oh, and I vote! ... So there s one. I d like to find the other 9,999 for you, but I don t have the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 4, 2010
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                                            --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, Michael Brass <mikearchaeology@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I require proof *grins*
                                            >
                                            >

                                            Well, I'm a Texan and I know South Africa is a country. Oh, and I vote!
                                            :)

                                            So there's one. I'd like to find the other 9,999 for you, but I don't have the time. :(
                                          • Anne Gilbert
                                            Roger: Well, to be fair, there are lots of inbred kinds of places here in the US. They re mostly in the hills , or so they say. But it s also true that
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 4, 2010
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                                              Roger:
                                               
                                              Well, to be fair, there are lots of "inbred" kinds of places here in the US.  They're mostly "in the hills", or so "they" say.  But it's also true that there swaths of the country where people have lived more or less in the same area, for generations. This is partly what fed the "horrors" of H.P. Lovecraft's imagination. Actually, I don't regret that Seattle is a "mix" of various "new people" and some "old" settlers, so to speak. Genes need to flow to keep a population reasonably healthy.
                                              Anne G


                                              --- In DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com, "Anne Gilbert" <avgilbert@...> wrote:
                                              > Anne G
                                              >
                                              Count youself lucky, Anne. Winchester has a notoriety about it's inbred locals who have lived here for generations. They are known as the Winchester Twitchers; because of inbreeding they twitch when they speak. If not they dribble out of the sides of their mouths. You really know they are an inbred local when they walk away dragging their club foot behind them.

                                              It's even worse on the Isle of Wight where the locals are known as corkheads. They call people from the mainland overners and don't accept them until their family has lived for at least three generations on the island.

                                              The term corkhead relates to them being able to float headupwards in water (not much between the ears except cork, you see). Every now and again one of the corkhaeds tries to test the paternity of its baby by chucking them off the end of Ryde Pier to see if they float and therefore have a genuine corkhead father. Unfortunately the corkheads are so dim they rarely check to see if the tide is out.

                                              This is all absolutely true of course.

                                            • RAY PERREAULT
                                              There is a seriously inbred family living near me. They get altogether about $2700/month in Federal aid. I know some towns in NE MS where everyone is
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 4, 2010
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                                                \There is a seriously inbred family living near me.  They get altogether about $2700/month in Federal aid.  I know some towns in NE MS where everyone is related, and all keep geneologies to make sure they don't marry too close.

                                                Ray



                                                From: Anne Gilbert <avgilbert@...>
                                                To: DebunkCreation@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 4:45:44 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [DebunkCreation] Re: It was a joy to read this article from the UK Telegraph this morning

                                                 

                                                Roger:
                                                 
                                                Well, to be fair, there are lots of "inbred" kinds of places here in the US.  They're mostly "in the hills", or so "they" say.  But it's also true that there swaths of the country where people have lived more or less in the same area, for generations. This is partly what fed the "horrors" of H.P. Lovecraft's imagination. Actually, I don't regret that Seattle is a "mix" of various "new people" and some "old" settlers, so to speak. Genes need to flow to keep a population reasonably healthy.
                                                Anne G


                                                --- In DebunkCreation@ yahoogroups. com, "Anne Gilbert" <avgilbert@.. .> wrote:
                                                > Anne G
                                                >
                                                Count youself lucky, Anne. Winchester has a notoriety about it's inbred locals who have lived here for generations. They are known as the Winchester Twitchers; because of inbreeding they twitch when they speak. If not they dribble out of the sides of their mouths. You really know they are an inbred local when they walk away dragging their club foot behind them.

                                                It's even worse on the Isle of Wight where the locals are known as corkheads. They call people from the mainland overners and don't accept them until their family has lived for at least three generations on the island.

                                                The term corkhead relates to them being able to float headupwards in water (not much between the ears except cork, you see). Every now and again one of the corkhaeds tries to test the paternity of its baby by chucking them off the end of Ryde Pier to see if they float and therefore have a genuine corkhead father. Unfortunately the corkheads are so dim they rarely check to see if the tide is out.

                                                This is all absolutely true of course.

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