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Move to mailman hosted at Debian !

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  • pavithran s
    Hi all , I am new to debian contribution hence many here wont be knowing me . I have done some upstream localisations in telugu which I think are also very
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 11, 2010
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      Hi all ,
      I am new to debian contribution hence many here wont be knowing me . I
      have done some upstream localisations in telugu which I think are also
      very less . On the debian side I have permanently moved to debian
      usage on my eeepc which I keep on helping people at #debian-eeepc .
      I have come a bit closer to debian thanks to #minidebconfindia
      organised at COEP,Pune .

      The current mailing list which in Yahoo has very less traffic and now
      after minidebconf we are expecting huge numbers .

      I am proposing that we move to mailman now that its the right time to move.

      Why not Yahoo ?
      * Yahoo is neglecting its web businesses . It already closed Yahoo 360
      and Yahoo Photos and Yahoo Geocities.
      * Yahoo mailing makes it very cumbersive(hard) not to top post.
      * Yahoo adds annoying ads with every mail which sometimes also have
      messages like optimise your IE etc
      * Yahoo forces people to create a yahoo account to atleast signing up process !

      Why Debian hosted mailing list :
      * Mailman is GPL and way to go for a free sofware project .
      * Hosting it is cheap and has non existent costs ( AFAIK in debian)
      * Debian has a team to manage the servers
      * Its proper for an Indian team to associate the infrastructure (
      domain,ML etc) with the parent project

      Hope to see a positive move ahead and plan for the future .

      Regards,
      Pavithran

      ( Joined Yahoo groups just to post this email)
    • praveeneea_nitc
      ... +1 If everyone is ok with it. I will request for a mailing list at lists.debian.org
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 11, 2010
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        --- In DebianIndia@yahoogroups.com, pavithran s <pavi.eu@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all ,
        > I am new to debian contribution hence many here wont be knowing me . I
        > have done some upstream localisations in telugu which I think are also
        > very less . On the debian side I have permanently moved to debian
        > usage on my eeepc which I keep on helping people at #debian-eeepc .
        > I have come a bit closer to debian thanks to #minidebconfindia
        > organised at COEP,Pune .
        >
        > The current mailing list which in Yahoo has very less traffic and now
        > after minidebconf we are expecting huge numbers .
        >
        > I am proposing that we move to mailman now that its the right time to move.
        >
        > Why not Yahoo ?
        > * Yahoo is neglecting its web businesses . It already closed Yahoo 360
        > and Yahoo Photos and Yahoo Geocities.
        > * Yahoo mailing makes it very cumbersive(hard) not to top post.
        > * Yahoo adds annoying ads with every mail which sometimes also have
        > messages like optimise your IE etc
        > * Yahoo forces people to create a yahoo account to atleast signing up process !
        >
        > Why Debian hosted mailing list :
        > * Mailman is GPL and way to go for a free sofware project .
        > * Hosting it is cheap and has non existent costs ( AFAIK in debian)
        > * Debian has a team to manage the servers
        > * Its proper for an Indian team to associate the infrastructure (
        > domain,ML etc) with the parent project
        >
        > Hope to see a positive move ahead and plan for the future .

        +1

        If everyone is ok with it. I will request for a mailing list at lists.debian.org

        > Regards,
        > Pavithran
        >
        > ( Joined Yahoo groups just to post this email)
        >
      • Jaldhar H. Vyas
        ... Just go ahead and do it. File a bug against lists.debian.org pseudopackage and ask for the creation of debian-user-indian (that seems to be the naming
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 11, 2010
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          On Thu, 12 Aug 2010, praveeneea_nitc wrote:

          > +1
          >
          > If everyone is ok with it. I will request for a mailing list at
          > lists.debian.org
          >

          Just go ahead and do it. File a bug against lists.debian.org
          pseudopackage and ask for the creation of debian-user-indian (that seems
          to be the naming pattern.) If a DD is needed to endorse the request,
          Kartik or I will reply to the bug.

          --
          Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@...>
        • Praveen A
          ... I will request debianindia (if they can give it). I would like it to equivalent to debian-mentors for new Indian contributors. I don t know if we need an
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 12, 2010
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            2010/8/12 Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@...>:
            > Just go ahead and do it.  File a bug against lists.debian.org
            > pseudopackage and ask for the creation of debian-user-indian (that seems
            > to be the naming pattern.)  If a DD is needed to endorse the request,
            > Kartik or I will reply to the bug.

            I will request debianindia (if they can give it). I would like it to
            equivalent to debian-mentors for new Indian contributors. I don't know
            if we need an India specific user list.

            Praveen
            --
            പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
            You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your
            rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as
            they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
          • Kartik Mistry
            ... India specific mentors list will be too much for Debian resources. Jaldhar s idea about debian-user-indian and later debian-devel-india will be much
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 12, 2010
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              On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Praveen A <pravi.a@...> wrote:
              > 2010/8/12 Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@...>:
              >> Just go ahead and do it.  File a bug against lists.debian.org
              >> pseudopackage and ask for the creation of debian-user-indian (that seems
              >> to be the naming pattern.)  If a DD is needed to endorse the request,
              >> Kartik or I will reply to the bug.
              >
              > I will request debianindia (if they can give it). I would like it to
              > equivalent to debian-mentors for new Indian contributors. I don't know
              > if we need an India specific user list.

              India specific mentors list will be too much for Debian resources.
              Jaldhar's idea about debian-user-indian and later debian-devel-india
              will be much better.

              --
              Kartik Mistry
              Debian GNU/Linux Developer
              IRC: kart_ | Identica: @kartikm
            • Praveen A
              ... Well, DebianIndia s aim always was creating more debian developers from India. Why do we need a India specific devel list? user list makes sense, but I m
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 12, 2010
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                2010/8/12 Kartik Mistry <kartik.mistry@...>:
                > On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Praveen A <pravi.a@...> wrote:
                >> 2010/8/12 Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@...>:
                >>> Just go ahead and do it.  File a bug against lists.debian.org
                >>> pseudopackage and ask for the creation of debian-user-indian (that seems
                >>> to be the naming pattern.)  If a DD is needed to endorse the request,
                >>> Kartik or I will reply to the bug.
                >>
                >> I will request debianindia (if they can give it). I would like it to
                >> equivalent to debian-mentors for new Indian contributors. I don't know
                >> if we need an India specific user list.
                >
                > India specific mentors list will be too much for Debian resources.
                > Jaldhar's idea about debian-user-indian and later debian-devel-india
                > will be much better.

                Well, DebianIndia's aim always was creating more debian developers
                from India. Why do we need a India specific devel list? user list
                makes sense, but I'm not too keen on that, as I would like to spent
                more of my time on mentoring people.

                I have requested it
                http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=592708

                --
                പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
                You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your
                rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as
                they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
              • pavithran s
                ... Our request in the form of Praveen s bug and following endorsement s lacked one thing which is clarity . After my interactions with the mailing list
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 13, 2010
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                  2010/8/12 Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@...>:
                  > Just go ahead and do it.  File a bug against lists.debian.org

                  Our request in the form of Praveen's bug and following endorsement s
                  lacked one thing which is 'clarity' .

                  After my interactions with the mailing list people they have informed me to

                  * first get a name right do we want debian -user-indian or
                  debian-india or debian-mentors-india we should be clear on it and it
                  should be mentioned in the bug .
                  * Category should be mentioned .
                  *subscription policy should be mentioned.

                  In other words I was told to read
                  http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list again and again
                  :( .

                  So lets all decide on one name and one description and be done with it .

                  My personal opinion is to get a users list and later ask for a
                  devel/mentor list specific to India .
                • Kumar Appaiah
                  ... I vote for debian-user-india. It doesn t matter; we can discuss packaging issues as well on it, in my opinion. ... Category: Users ... Anybody can post.
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 13, 2010
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                    On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 05:31:54PM +0530, pavithran s wrote:
                    > Our request in the form of Praveen's bug and following endorsement s
                    > lacked one thing which is 'clarity' .
                    >
                    > After my interactions with the mailing list people they have informed me
                    > to
                    >
                    > * first get a name right do we want debian -user-indian or
                    > debian-india or debian-mentors-india we should be clear on it and it

                    I vote for debian-user-india. It doesn't matter; we can discuss
                    packaging issues as well on it, in my opinion.

                    > should be mentioned in the bug .
                    > * Category should be mentioned .

                    Category: Users

                    > *subscription policy should be mentioned.

                    Anybody can post.

                    > In other words I was told to read
                    > [2]http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list again and again
                    > :( .
                    >
                    > So lets all decide on one name and one description and be done with it .
                    >
                    > My personal opinion is to get a users list and later ask for a
                    > devel/mentor list specific to India .

                    Here are the details I would suggest:

                    Name: debian-user-india

                    Rationale: A mailing list is needed to support Debian users who speak
                    Indian languages and/or are concerned with India-related packages and
                    Indic translation in Debian. Currently, we are hosting an active list
                    on a Yahoo! group, but we feel it is now time to move the list to
                    an official Debian supported location.

                    Short description: debian-user for Indian users

                    Long description: This mailing list is dedicated to supporting Debian
                    users from India who use India specific packages and Indic languages
                    in Debian.

                    Category: Users

                    Subscription Policy: Open

                    Post policy: Open

                    Web Archive: Yes, if possible

                    Please comment.

                    Thanks.

                    Kumar

                    --
                    We do not stray out of all words into the ever silent;
                    We do not raise our hands to the void for things beyond hope.
                    - Rabindranath Tagore (The Gardener, 1915)
                  • Praveen A
                    ... If we are going for debian-user-indian list, then we need a separate list for debian-mentors-india. We can t discuss devel stuff on a user list and we
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 13, 2010
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                      2010/8/13 pavithran s <pavi.eu@...>:
                      > * first get a name right do we want debian -user-indian or
                      > debian-india or debian-mentors-india we should be clear on it and it
                      > should be mentioned in the bug .

                      If we are going for debian-user-indian list, then we need a separate
                      list for debian-mentors-india. We can't discuss devel stuff on a user
                      list and we _HAVE_ to discuss devel stuff.

                      > * Category should be mentioned .

                      Developers or Users accordingly

                      > *subscription policy should be mentioned.

                      open list.

                      > In other words I was told to read
                      > http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list again and again
                      > :( .
                      >
                      > So lets all decide on one name and one description and be done with it .
                      >
                      > My personal opinion is to get a users list and later ask for a
                      > devel/mentor list specific to India .
                      >

                      I think DebianIndia's objective was to mentor developers. So we need
                      to have a mentors list. If people are interested in user list, then
                      that has to be in addition to it.

                      Thanks
                      Praveen
                      --
                      പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
                      You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your
                      rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as
                      they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
                    • Kumar Appaiah
                      Here is another alternative: Name: debian-india Rationale: A mailing list is needed to support Debian users and contributors who speak Indian languages and/or
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 13, 2010
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                        Here is another alternative:

                        Name: debian-india

                        Rationale: A mailing list is needed to support Debian users and
                        contributors who speak Indian languages and/or are concerned with
                        India-related packages and Indic translation in Debian. Currently, we
                        are hosting an active list on a Yahoo! group, but we feel it is now
                        time to move the list to an official Debian supported location.

                        Short description: debian-user and debian-devel for Indian users

                        Long description: This mailing list is dedicated to supporting Debian
                        users from India who use India specific packages and Indic languages
                        in Debian.

                        Category: Users

                        Subscription Policy: Open

                        Post policy: Open

                        Web Archive: Yes, if possible

                        Again, just a recommendation.

                        Thanks.

                        Kumar
                        --
                        Light finds her treasure of colours
                        through the antagonism of clouds.
                        - Rabindranath Tagore (Fireflies, 1928)
                      • Christian PERRIER
                        ... I m not fond of -indian . This might be a parallel with -user-french or -user-german listss, but in those french or german more means the language
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 13, 2010
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                          Quoting Praveen A (pravi.a@...):
                          > 2010/8/13 pavithran s <pavi.eu@...>:
                          > > * first get a name right do we want debian -user-indian or
                          > > debian-india or debian-mentors-india we should be clear on it and it
                          > > should be mentioned in the bug .
                          >
                          > If we are going for debian-user-indian list, then we need a separate
                          > list for debian-mentors-india. We can't discuss devel stuff on a user
                          > list and we _HAVE_ to discuss devel stuff.


                          I'm not fond of "-indian". This might be a parallel with -user-french
                          or -user-german listss, but in those "french" or "german" more means
                          the language than the country.

                          As "indian" is not a language, I think it'd be better to use "india",
                          or maybe (but less obvious) "south-asia", as I'd guess that users from
                          Sri Lanka, Bengladesh, Nepal and other countries of the Indian
                          Peninsula, would share the same interests.

                          What do you guys think about it?
                        • Mahesh Aravind
                          Dear Pavithran, ... +10 I second this. Awaiting to see a Mailinglist off Yahoo Warm regards, Mahesh Aravind
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 13, 2010
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                            Dear Pavithran,

                            --- In DebianIndia@yahoogroups.com, pavithran s <pavi.eu@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Why not Yahoo ?

                            >
                            > Why Debian hosted mailing list :
                            >

                            +10

                            I second this.

                            Awaiting to see a Mailinglist off Yahoo

                            Warm regards,
                            Mahesh Aravind
                          • Praveen A
                            ... I like debian-india and Vivek s last comment also reflect this. So those who did not support this earlier, please comment if you want to go ahead with this
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 14, 2010
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                              2010/8/13 pavithran s <pavi.eu@...>:
                              >  2010/8/12 Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@...>:
                              >> Just go ahead and do it.  File a bug against lists.debian.org
                              >
                              > Our request in the form of Praveen's bug and following endorsement s
                              > lacked one thing which is 'clarity' .

                              I like debian-india and Vivek's last comment also reflect this. So
                              those who did not support this earlier, please comment if you want to
                              go ahead with this or if you still want a user list, please request it
                              separately. Lets bring clarity and close this.

                              Pavithran, please add other details asked by list masters.

                              Praveen
                              --
                              പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
                              You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your
                              rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as
                              they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
                            • Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan
                              ... I second this name and proposal. Ramakrishnan
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 14, 2010
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                                On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Kumar Appaiah <kumar.appaiah@...> wrote:
                                > Here is another alternative:
                                >
                                > Name: debian-india
                                >
                                > Rationale: A mailing list is needed to support Debian users and
                                > contributors who speak Indian languages and/or are concerned with
                                > India-related packages and Indic translation in Debian. Currently, we
                                > are hosting an active list on a Yahoo! group, but we feel it is now
                                > time to move the list to an official Debian supported location.
                                >
                                > Short description: debian-user and debian-devel for Indian users

                                I second this name and proposal.

                                Ramakrishnan
                              • vivekvarghesecherian
                                ... I agree to all the points that Pavitran has raised in the above post as reasons for a lists.debian.org mailing list and have also updated the bug report at
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 14, 2010
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                                  >
                                  > I am proposing that we move to mailman now that its the right time to move.
                                  >
                                  > Why not Yahoo ?
                                  > * Yahoo is neglecting its web businesses . It already closed Yahoo 360
                                  > and Yahoo Photos and Yahoo Geocities.
                                  > * Yahoo mailing makes it very cumbersive(hard) not to top post.
                                  > * Yahoo adds annoying ads with every mail which sometimes also have
                                  > messages like optimise your IE etc
                                  > * Yahoo forces people to create a yahoo account to atleast signing up process !
                                  >
                                  > Why Debian hosted mailing list :
                                  > * Mailman is GPL and way to go for a free sofware project .
                                  > * Hosting it is cheap and has non existent costs ( AFAIK in debian)
                                  > * Debian has a team to manage the servers
                                  > * Its proper for an Indian team to associate the infrastructure (
                                  > domain,ML etc) with the parent project
                                  >
                                  > Hope to see a positive move ahead and plan for the future .
                                  >
                                  > Regards,
                                  > Pavithran


                                  I agree to all the points that Pavitran has raised
                                  in the above post as reasons for a lists.debian.org
                                  mailing list and have also updated the bug report at

                                  http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=592708

                                  I feel that the name of the said list should be
                                  debian-india@... as the name of this
                                  community as we all know from 2005 is 'Debian India',
                                  also a India specific list for Debian need not further
                                  classify anyone as a user or developer.

                                  The purpose of the debian-india List should be as follows:

                                  1) Answer general Debian related queries both technical
                                  and licensing related queries.

                                  2) Mentoring new Indian Debian Contributers.

                                  3) Debian Indic Localisation.(What debian-in-workers is doing now).
                                • Praveen A
                                  ... I agree with points 1 and 2. FOr point 3, we should continue debian-in-workers. Contributing to debian need not be only via Indic support or Indic
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 15, 2010
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                                    2010/8/15 vivekvarghesecherian <vivekvarghesecherian@...>:
                                    > The purpose of the debian-india List should be as follows:
                                    >
                                    > 1) Answer general Debian related queries both technical
                                    >   and licensing related queries.
                                    >
                                    > 2) Mentoring new Indian Debian Contributers.
                                    >
                                    > 3) Debian Indic Localisation.(What debian-in-workers is doing now).

                                    I agree with points 1 and 2. FOr point 3, we should continue
                                    debian-in-workers. Contributing to debian need not be only via Indic
                                    support or Indic packages. debian-india will be a gateway to debian
                                    for people from India, but debian-in-workers should remain as a
                                    pcakging team for Indic packages.

                                    Praveen
                                    --
                                    പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍
                                    You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your
                                    rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as
                                    they follow the rules: laws and constitution.
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