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Re: [Deadlands uk] Re: Casting Nastertioms

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  • Lorgryt
    It also allows the Hexslinger to choose if he will risk the backlash or take the lesser hand. Your s makes the hi-Spirited hexslinger invulnerable to most
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 4, 2003
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      It also allows the Hexslinger to choose if he will risk the backlash or take the lesser hand.  Your's makes the hi-Spirited hexslinger invulnerable to most Manatous.

      Lets face it... the books are a little louse about a lot of things.  The expected us to solve these issues as suits us.  I agree both of our methods solve the problem, but I feel yours lets hi-Spirited Hexslingers get away with murder... mine deals more with luck and skukk than just beatin' the tar out of the manatou.

      But, as the old lady said as she bent down and kissed the pig... "to each their own!"

      Bo

      At 10:42 PM 2/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
      Well the way I read it - have a look at the paragraph on the same page titled "Manitous"
       
      Whenever your character botches a Hex roll or DRAWS a black joker .... ... Tell the Marshall whenever you go bust or DRAW a joker while attempting to cast a hex, hen then rolls on a special chart ....
       
      From that I surmised that you dont have to use the joker in your hand to get backlash, just draw it. However, both your method and mine for making better hexslingers less likely to suffer backlash work.  Your's is a little more reliable as provided your hexslinger gets at least one raise on their roll they can guarantee to not suffer backlash.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Lorgryt
      To: Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:23 PM
      Subject: Re: [Deadlands uk] Re: Casting Nastertioms

      Quoted from page 154 Players Manual under Making Contact:
      "... draw 5 cards... get one extra card for each raise... Your goal is to put together the best poker hand possible with all the cards you drew. ... Jokers are counted as wild cards.  The Red joker you get for free, but the Black Joker has a high price..."

      You could argue that the Red Joker is in every hand you draw... "he Red joker you get for free..."  but, that is obviously not the case.  In 7-card Stud poker you get 7 cards, but only use 5.  In Hexslinging it is a hand of poker.  Cards you don't use are not counted for or against you.  Discarding is easily done.  I can't find anything that says if you draw 6 cards you HAVE to use the Jokers in the final hand.  If you don't use them, they don't have any effect.  So, higher skill makes a better Hexslinger.
      Am I missing something?

      Bo

      At 09:49 PM 2/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
      I was under the impression that if the Black Joker was drawn, not just used, that backlash occured.
       
      Perhaps I need to read my book again *chuckle*
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Lorgryt
      To: Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:18 PM
      Subject: Re: [Deadlands uk] Re: Casting Nastertioms

      Not so... you only use 5 cards for the hand... you DO NOT HAVE TO USE THE
      JOKERS UNLESS YOU WANT TO if you have more than 5 cards.

      The house rule is your right in your game, but it is in opposition to the
      way it should be.  I have yet to read that a card MUST be used in a hand of
      poker... even in Deadlands.  If you only draw 5 cards (bad skill) you are
      stuck with the cards you drew... if you draw 9 cards (good skull) you can
      choose the 5 you want.  You can discard the Jokers if you don't want to, so
      long as you have 5 cards left when you finish the hand.

      In the words of the Californian Huckster... "Dude, Hoyle Rules!"

      Bo

      At 07:57 PM 2/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
      >--- In Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com, "Peter King <innomne@y...>"
      ><innomne@y...> wrote:
      > > With the exception of the joker, I don't think there is a hard and
      > > fast rule to this one, certainly nothing I can find in the books
      > > anyway, I certinly know I never really shuffle the deck unless I
      >have
      > > to, but all that being said, my damn huckster draws a joker 9 times
      > > out of 10.
      >
      >I think every Husckster has a problem with drawing Jokers - in fact,
      >the better their Hexslingin' skill, the more likely they are to draw
      >the Black Joker (Better Skill = Higher Roll = More Cards Drawn).
      >
      >I found this a trifle unfair, so I came up with the following house
      >rule type thing
      >
      >When a Huckster draws a black joker they make an opposed Spirit roll
      >against the Manitou they have summoned (Calculate the Manitou's
      >spirit exactly the same as for a Harrowed Dominion Battle).
      >
      >As the Huckster is supposed to be 'in charge' they may add their
      >Hexslingin' skill level to the roll.
      >
      >If the Manitou succeeds, or both rolls are the same then the Huckster
      >suffers Backlash as normal.
      >
      >If the Huckster Succeeds he fights off the Manitou, but the power
      >fail.
      >
      >If the Huckster makes one Raise the Manitou is fought off and the
      >power works, but only at the barest minimum level (Soul Blast, for
      >example, would do only wind damage)
      >
      >If the Huckster makes two or more Raises then he fights off the
      >Manitou and the Hex works as normal.
      >
      >Of course if the Huckster goes bust on their Hexslingin' roll, then
      >they're still in trouble.
      >
      >This means that while more powerful Hexslingers are more likely to
      >attract the attention of manic manitou (Draw the black Joker) they
      >aren't going to end up suffering backlash every time they cast a hex.
      >
      >Any comments or other ideas on how to deal with this?
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >Deadlandsuk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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    • Lorgryt
      In that case the Huckster is about as real and useful as a Shaman. Why bother having ANY skill at all? Bo
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 4, 2003
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        In that case the Huckster is about as real and useful as a Shaman. Why
        bother having ANY skill at all?

        Bo

        At 06:43 PM 2/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
        >we always play it that if a black joker is drawn, you get backlash. wether
        >you use it or not.
        >this was the case when we played with other groups at gen con also, if not it
        >sure takes alot of the risk out of the player dealing with the manitou.
        >that was the point of having the old hand edge, you didnt have to pull more
        >cards if you didnt want to, hence cutting down the odds of a black joker.
        >
        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >Deadlandsuk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Roland Lee Colt <jo_ha_nee@yahoo.com>
        ... USE THE ... to the ... hand of ... you are ... you can ... want to, so ... and ... times ... fact, ... draw ... roll ... Huckster ... hex. ... I roll 4
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 6, 2003
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          --- In Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com, Lorgryt <lorgryt.detroll@v...>
          wrote:
          > Not so... you only use 5 cards for the hand... you DO NOT HAVE TO
          USE THE
          > JOKERS UNLESS YOU WANT TO if you have more than 5 cards.
          >
          > The house rule is your right in your game, but it is in opposition
          to the
          > way it should be. I have yet to read that a card MUST be used in a
          hand of
          > poker... even in Deadlands. If you only draw 5 cards (bad skill)
          you are
          > stuck with the cards you drew... if you draw 9 cards (good skull)
          you can
          > choose the 5 you want. You can discard the Jokers if you don't
          want to, so
          > long as you have 5 cards left when you finish the hand.
          >
          > In the words of the Californian Huckster... "Dude, Hoyle Rules!"
          >
          > Bo
          >
          > At 07:57 PM 2/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
          > >--- In Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com, "Peter King <innomne@y...>"
          > ><innomne@y...> wrote:
          > > > With the exception of the joker, I don't think there is a hard
          and
          > > > fast rule to this one, certainly nothing I can find in the books
          > > > anyway, I certinly know I never really shuffle the deck unless I
          > >have
          > > > to, but all that being said, my damn huckster draws a joker 9
          times
          > > > out of 10.
          > >
          > >I think every Husckster has a problem with drawing Jokers - in
          fact,
          > >the better their Hexslingin' skill, the more likely they are to
          draw
          > >the Black Joker (Better Skill = Higher Roll = More Cards Drawn).
          > >
          > >I found this a trifle unfair, so I came up with the following house
          > >rule type thing
          > >
          > >When a Huckster draws a black joker they make an opposed Spirit
          roll
          > >against the Manitou they have summoned (Calculate the Manitou's
          > >spirit exactly the same as for a Harrowed Dominion Battle).
          > >
          > >As the Huckster is supposed to be 'in charge' they may add their
          > >Hexslingin' skill level to the roll.
          > >
          > >If the Manitou succeeds, or both rolls are the same then the
          Huckster
          > >suffers Backlash as normal.
          > >
          > >If the Huckster Succeeds he fights off the Manitou, but the power
          > >fail.
          > >
          > >If the Huckster makes one Raise the Manitou is fought off and the
          > >power works, but only at the barest minimum level (Soul Blast, for
          > >example, would do only wind damage)
          > >
          > >If the Huckster makes two or more Raises then he fights off the
          > >Manitou and the Hex works as normal.
          > >
          > >Of course if the Huckster goes bust on their Hexslingin' roll, then
          > >they're still in trouble.
          > >
          > >This means that while more powerful Hexslingers are more likely to
          > >attract the attention of manic manitou (Draw the black Joker) they
          > >aren't going to end up suffering backlash every time they cast a
          hex.
          > >



          I roll 4 raises and MAY draw 9 cards. I draw 5 automaticly. If no
          Joker I mat draw a card at a time, untill I am done OR untill I get
          to a toatal of 9. It is a gamble. I may have a pair and 6 cards. That
          next one could be the Third of a kind or a match to another pair.
          It's the "luck of the draw"
        • Roland Lee Colt <jo_ha_nee@yahoo.com>
          ... USE THE ... to the ... hand of ... you are ... you can ... want to, so ... and ... times ... fact, ... draw ... roll ... Huckster ... hex. ... I roll 4
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 6, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com, Lorgryt <lorgryt.detroll@v...>
            wrote:
            > Not so... you only use 5 cards for the hand... you DO NOT HAVE TO
            USE THE
            > JOKERS UNLESS YOU WANT TO if you have more than 5 cards.
            >
            > The house rule is your right in your game, but it is in opposition
            to the
            > way it should be. I have yet to read that a card MUST be used in a
            hand of
            > poker... even in Deadlands. If you only draw 5 cards (bad skill)
            you are
            > stuck with the cards you drew... if you draw 9 cards (good skull)
            you can
            > choose the 5 you want. You can discard the Jokers if you don't
            want to, so
            > long as you have 5 cards left when you finish the hand.
            >
            > In the words of the Californian Huckster... "Dude, Hoyle Rules!"
            >
            > Bo
            >
            > At 07:57 PM 2/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
            > >--- In Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com, "Peter King <innomne@y...>"
            > ><innomne@y...> wrote:
            > > > With the exception of the joker, I don't think there is a hard
            and
            > > > fast rule to this one, certainly nothing I can find in the books
            > > > anyway, I certinly know I never really shuffle the deck unless I
            > >have
            > > > to, but all that being said, my damn huckster draws a joker 9
            times
            > > > out of 10.
            > >
            > >I think every Husckster has a problem with drawing Jokers - in
            fact,
            > >the better their Hexslingin' skill, the more likely they are to
            draw
            > >the Black Joker (Better Skill = Higher Roll = More Cards Drawn).
            > >
            > >I found this a trifle unfair, so I came up with the following house
            > >rule type thing
            > >
            > >When a Huckster draws a black joker they make an opposed Spirit
            roll
            > >against the Manitou they have summoned (Calculate the Manitou's
            > >spirit exactly the same as for a Harrowed Dominion Battle).
            > >
            > >As the Huckster is supposed to be 'in charge' they may add their
            > >Hexslingin' skill level to the roll.
            > >
            > >If the Manitou succeeds, or both rolls are the same then the
            Huckster
            > >suffers Backlash as normal.
            > >
            > >If the Huckster Succeeds he fights off the Manitou, but the power
            > >fail.
            > >
            > >If the Huckster makes one Raise the Manitou is fought off and the
            > >power works, but only at the barest minimum level (Soul Blast, for
            > >example, would do only wind damage)
            > >
            > >If the Huckster makes two or more Raises then he fights off the
            > >Manitou and the Hex works as normal.
            > >
            > >Of course if the Huckster goes bust on their Hexslingin' roll, then
            > >they're still in trouble.
            > >
            > >This means that while more powerful Hexslingers are more likely to
            > >attract the attention of manic manitou (Draw the black Joker) they
            > >aren't going to end up suffering backlash every time they cast a
            hex.
            > >



            I roll 4 raises and MAY draw 9 cards. I draw 5 automaticly. If no
            Joker I mat draw a card at a time, untill I am done OR untill I get
            to a toatal of 9. It is a gamble. I may have a pair and 6 cards. That
            next one could be the Third of a kind or a match to another pair.
            It's the "luck of the draw"
          • tavis_hill <tavis.hill@ntlworld.com>
            ... That ... If that works for you then who am I to stop you? Sounds remarkable like giving every Huckster the Old Hand Edge, which does work.
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 7, 2003
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              > I roll 4 raises and MAY draw 9 cards. I draw 5 automaticly. If no
              > Joker I mat draw a card at a time, untill I am done OR untill I get
              > to a toatal of 9. It is a gamble. I may have a pair and 6 cards.
              That
              > next one could be the Third of a kind or a match to another pair.
              > It's the "luck of the draw"

              If that works for you then who am I to stop you?

              Sounds remarkable like giving every Huckster the "Old Hand" Edge,
              which does work.
            • Alison Burd
              In any game I ve played in if a black joker is pulled then you are pretty much screwed no matter how many cards you have !!! Al ...
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 11, 2003
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                In any game I've played in if a black joker is pulled then you are pretty
                much screwed no matter how many cards you have !!!

                Al


                >From: "tavis.hill" <tavis.hill@...>
                >Reply-To: Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com
                >To: <Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: Re: [Deadlands uk] Re: Casting Nastertioms
                >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:49:39 -0000
                >
                >I was under the impression that if the Black Joker was drawn, not just
                >used, that backlash occured.
                >
                >Perhaps I need to read my book again *chuckle*
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Lorgryt
                > To: Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:18 PM
                > Subject: Re: [Deadlands uk] Re: Casting Nastertioms
                >
                >
                > Not so... you only use 5 cards for the hand... you DO NOT HAVE TO USE
                >THE
                > JOKERS UNLESS YOU WANT TO if you have more than 5 cards.
                >
                > The house rule is your right in your game, but it is in opposition to
                >the
                > way it should be. I have yet to read that a card MUST be used in a hand
                >of
                > poker... even in Deadlands. If you only draw 5 cards (bad skill) you
                >are
                > stuck with the cards you drew... if you draw 9 cards (good skull) you
                >can
                > choose the 5 you want. You can discard the Jokers if you don't want to,
                >so
                > long as you have 5 cards left when you finish the hand.
                >
                > In the words of the Californian Huckster... "Dude, Hoyle Rules!"
                >
                > Bo
                >
                > At 07:57 PM 2/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
                > >--- In Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com, "Peter King <innomne@y...>"
                > ><innomne@y...> wrote:
                > > > With the exception of the joker, I don't think there is a hard and
                > > > fast rule to this one, certainly nothing I can find in the books
                > > > anyway, I certinly know I never really shuffle the deck unless I
                > >have
                > > > to, but all that being said, my damn huckster draws a joker 9 times
                > > > out of 10.
                > >
                > >I think every Husckster has a problem with drawing Jokers - in fact,
                > >the better their Hexslingin' skill, the more likely they are to draw
                > >the Black Joker (Better Skill = Higher Roll = More Cards Drawn).
                > >
                > >I found this a trifle unfair, so I came up with the following house
                > >rule type thing
                > >
                > >When a Huckster draws a black joker they make an opposed Spirit roll
                > >against the Manitou they have summoned (Calculate the Manitou's
                > >spirit exactly the same as for a Harrowed Dominion Battle).
                > >
                > >As the Huckster is supposed to be 'in charge' they may add their
                > >Hexslingin' skill level to the roll.
                > >
                > >If the Manitou succeeds, or both rolls are the same then the Huckster
                > >suffers Backlash as normal.
                > >
                > >If the Huckster Succeeds he fights off the Manitou, but the power
                > >fail.
                > >
                > >If the Huckster makes one Raise the Manitou is fought off and the
                > >power works, but only at the barest minimum level (Soul Blast, for
                > >example, would do only wind damage)
                > >
                > >If the Huckster makes two or more Raises then he fights off the
                > >Manitou and the Hex works as normal.
                > >
                > >Of course if the Huckster goes bust on their Hexslingin' roll, then
                > >they're still in trouble.
                > >
                > >This means that while more powerful Hexslingers are more likely to
                > >attract the attention of manic manitou (Draw the black Joker) they
                > >aren't going to end up suffering backlash every time they cast a hex.
                > >
                > >Any comments or other ideas on how to deal with this?
                > >
                > >
                > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > >Deadlandsuk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > Deadlandsuk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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              • colin braddock
                ... I d have to concur with Alison s opinion.In all the games I ve run,Big Black has always been synonymous with world-class cock-ups.Not that the redoubtable
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 14, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- Alison Burd <alison_burd@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > In any game I've played in if a black joker is
                  > pulled then you are pretty
                  > much screwed no matter how many cards you have !!!
                  >
                  > Al

                  I'd have to concur with Alison's opinion.In all the
                  games I've run,Big Black has always been synonymous
                  with world-class cock-ups.Not that the redoubtable Mr.
                  Chance Black ever drew one...(Ahem!)

                  Colin.
                  >
                  > >From: "tavis.hill" <tavis.hill@...>
                  > >Reply-To: Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com
                  > >To: <Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com>
                  > >Subject: Re: [Deadlands uk] Re: Casting Nastertioms
                  > >Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 21:49:39 -0000
                  > >
                  > >I was under the impression that if the Black Joker
                  > was drawn, not just
                  > >used, that backlash occured.
                  > >
                  > >Perhaps I need to read my book again *chuckle*
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: Lorgryt
                  > > To: Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 8:18 PM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Deadlands uk] Re: Casting
                  > Nastertioms
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Not so... you only use 5 cards for the hand...
                  > you DO NOT HAVE TO USE
                  > >THE
                  > > JOKERS UNLESS YOU WANT TO if you have more than
                  > 5 cards.
                  > >
                  > > The house rule is your right in your game, but
                  > it is in opposition to
                  > >the
                  > > way it should be. I have yet to read that a
                  > card MUST be used in a hand
                  > >of
                  > > poker... even in Deadlands. If you only draw 5
                  > cards (bad skill) you
                  > >are
                  > > stuck with the cards you drew... if you draw 9
                  > cards (good skull) you
                  > >can
                  > > choose the 5 you want. You can discard the
                  > Jokers if you don't want to,
                  > >so
                  > > long as you have 5 cards left when you finish
                  > the hand.
                  > >
                  > > In the words of the Californian Huckster...
                  > "Dude, Hoyle Rules!"
                  > >
                  > > Bo
                  > >
                  > > At 07:57 PM 2/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
                  > > >--- In Deadlandsuk@yahoogroups.com, "Peter King
                  > <innomne@y...>"
                  > > ><innomne@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > With the exception of the joker, I don't
                  > think there is a hard and
                  > > > > fast rule to this one, certainly nothing I
                  > can find in the books
                  > > > > anyway, I certinly know I never really
                  > shuffle the deck unless I
                  > > >have
                  > > > > to, but all that being said, my damn
                  > huckster draws a joker 9 times
                  > > > > out of 10.
                  > > >
                  > > >I think every Husckster has a problem with
                  > drawing Jokers - in fact,
                  > > >the better their Hexslingin' skill, the more
                  > likely they are to draw
                  > > >the Black Joker (Better Skill = Higher Roll =
                  > More Cards Drawn).
                  > > >
                  > > >I found this a trifle unfair, so I came up with
                  > the following house
                  > > >rule type thing
                  > > >
                  > > >When a Huckster draws a black joker they make
                  > an opposed Spirit roll
                  > > >against the Manitou they have summoned
                  > (Calculate the Manitou's
                  > > >spirit exactly the same as for a Harrowed
                  > Dominion Battle).
                  > > >
                  > > >As the Huckster is supposed to be 'in charge'
                  > they may add their
                  > > >Hexslingin' skill level to the roll.
                  > > >
                  > > >If the Manitou succeeds, or both rolls are the
                  > same then the Huckster
                  > > >suffers Backlash as normal.
                  > > >
                  > > >If the Huckster Succeeds he fights off the
                  > Manitou, but the power
                  > > >fail.
                  > > >
                  > > >If the Huckster makes one Raise the Manitou is
                  > fought off and the
                  > > >power works, but only at the barest minimum
                  > level (Soul Blast, for
                  > > >example, would do only wind damage)
                  > > >
                  > > >If the Huckster makes two or more Raises then
                  > he fights off the
                  > > >Manitou and the Hex works as normal.
                  > > >
                  > > >Of course if the Huckster goes bust on their
                  > Hexslingin' roll, then
                  > > >they're still in trouble.
                  > > >
                  > > >This means that while more powerful Hexslingers
                  > are more likely to
                  > > >attract the attention of manic manitou (Draw
                  > the black Joker) they
                  > > >aren't going to end up suffering backlash every
                  > time they cast a hex.
                  > > >
                  > > >Any comments or other ideas on how to deal with
                  > this?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                  > to:
                  > > >Deadlandsuk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                  > to:
                  > > Deadlandsuk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                  > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  _________________________________________________________________
                  > Worried what your kids see online? Protect them
                  > better with MSN 8
                  >
                  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=186&DI=1059
                  >
                  >


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