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Re: Lyrics

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  • Em
    Happily, I am wayyyyyy too caught up experiencing the lyrics to decide which are my faves. Anyone know what 41 Thunderer actually refers to? I have to admit
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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      Happily, I am wayyyyyy too caught up experiencing the lyrics to decide which are my
      faves.
      Anyone know what "41 Thunderer" actually refers to?
      I have to admit I've been only listening to the songs, not looking at the lyrics in print.
      I always seem to find the 2nd song delicious, i.e. T-Tree, Tillman Cty, and that U.S. male
      one....
      what *IS* it about the 2nd song???????
      Before, I had wondered what "success" with these songs could mean, in a commercial
      sense. But since I've been steeped in Tillman Cty recently, I realize one of the Nashville
      "pretty-boy-with-a guitar" types, could cover that song to great effect.
      Would truly GRACE whoever did it. And impart some soul to what I see as a real
      wasteland. (mainstream commercial country)
      :)
      Em
      Florida
      ps: its really great to read you all's comments about this wonderful music. No music
      has taken me in this powerfully in a very long time.
    • D. Keith Howington
      ... Welcome! It is a gun, specifically a Colt six-shot revolver. There s an earlier thread on the song:
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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        Em wrote:

        > Happily, I am wayyyyyy too caught up experiencing the lyrics to decide
        > which are my
        > faves. Anyone know what "41 Thunderer" actually refers to?

        Welcome!

        It is a gun, specifically a Colt six-shot revolver. There's an earlier
        thread on the song:
        <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dave-and-Tracy/message/4280>

        And here's a picture of an 1877 model .41 Thunderer:
        <http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=31746360#PIC>

        > I have to admit I've been only listening to the songs, not looking at
        > the lyrics in print. I always seem to find the 2nd song delicious,
        > i.e. T-Tree, Tillman Cty, and that U.S. male one....

        Tanglewood Tree definitely strikes me as exquisite.

        > what *IS* it about the 2nd song???????

        Well -- in my case, I'd heard two of the three "second songs" live
        before getting the albums. That made it even better.

        > Before, I had wondered what "success" with these songs could mean, in
        > a commercial sense. But since I've been steeped in Tillman Cty
        > recently, I realize one of the Nashville "pretty-boy-with-a guitar"
        > types, could cover that song to great effect. Would truly GRACE
        > whoever did it. And impart some soul to what I see as a real
        > wasteland. (mainstream commercial country) :)


        Dave Carter wrote about his efforts to go mainstream country -- the song
        "The Power and the Glory" is about this experience, and others refer to
        it as well. Obviously Cowboy Singer is about the desire -- but the
        "Power and Glory" is about the *attempt*.

        ===|================/ D. Keith Howington, CEO (CEO@...)
      • Em
        ah, ok! so .41 refers to a bore size and not to a year . Thanks, that makes alot of sense. Thanks for the info. And thanks too, for the welcome. I ve actually
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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          ah, ok! so .41 refers to a bore size and not to a "year". Thanks, that makes alot of
          sense. Thanks for the info.
          And thanks too, for the welcome. I've actually hung out a bit on the Tracy yahoo group,
          but not so much here.
          Again, its great to see folks discussing words and music so near and dear to my heart.
          :)
          Em

          --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "D. Keith Howington" <ceo@l...> wrote:
          > Em wrote:
          >
          > > Happily, I am wayyyyyy too caught up experiencing the lyrics to decide
          > > which are my
          > > faves. Anyone know what "41 Thunderer" actually refers to?
          >
          > Welcome!
          >
          > It is a gun, specifically a Colt six-shot revolver. There's an earlier
          > thread on the song:
          > <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dave-and-Tracy/message/4280>
          >
          > And here's a picture of an 1877 model .41 Thunderer:
          > <http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=31746360#PIC>

          ..snip..
        • Em
          Ha! just finished reading the 41 Thunderer thread. Great thread! Weird song. But I d been at that point where it was still a mystery. And now the mysterious
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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            Ha! just finished reading the "41 Thunderer" thread. Great
            thread!
            Weird song. But I'd been at that point where it was still a mystery.
            And now the mysterious depths have been at least partially
            "plumbed".
            :(
            So I'm in a weird place, on one hand wanting to hear everyone's
            thoughts and talk about the songs, and on the other hand I want
            to let them fly without being too closely examined.
            To not get too empirical about all this.
            But you guys are so gentle and loose in your "detecting"...that it
            seems fine to do so.
            Anyway thanks again for pointing out that old thread.
            Question: do you all ever do the song of the week thing
            anymore? or is that ancient history already?
            :)
            Em

            --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "Em" <emzdogz@t...>
            wrote:
            > ah, ok! so .41 refers to a bore size and not to a "year". Thanks,
            that makes alot of
            > sense. Thanks for the info.
            > And thanks too, for the welcome. I've actually hung out a bit on
            the Tracy yahoo group,
            > but not so much here.
            > Again, its great to see folks discussing words and music so
            near and dear to my heart.
            > :)
            > Em
            >
            > --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "D. Keith
            Howington" <ceo@l...> wrote:
            > > Em wrote:
            > >
            > > > Happily, I am wayyyyyy too caught up experiencing the lyrics
            to decide
            > > > which are my
            > > > faves. Anyone know what "41 Thunderer" actually refers to?
            > >
            > > Welcome!
            > >
            > > It is a gun, specifically a Colt six-shot revolver. There's an
            earlier
            > > thread on the song:
            > >
            <http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Dave-and-Tracy/messag
            e/4280>
            > >
            > > And here's a picture of an 1877 model .41 Thunderer:
            > >
            <http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=317463
            60#PIC>
            >
            > ..snip..
          • Bonny Holder
            I don t know if this has any bearing on D&T records, but in olden times, the days of the vinyl record, the 2nd track on the A side of the disk would be the
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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              I don't know if this has any bearing on D&T records, but in "olden
              times," the days of the vinyl record, the 2nd track on the A side of
              the disk would be the single. DJs who would get the album, but were
              really interested in just the single cut, would know that #2 was the
              way to go. Something about...with a 33 rmp record, that second track
              was just a little more "perfect" in timing than the others. Is that
              still true w/CDs?, I don't know. If anybody has CDs by really
              commercial acts, check & see if that 2nd track was the single.

              Also, CDs are always released on Tuesdays. ???

              Bonny in NM

              PS, Em, "Tillman County" is one of my very favorite songs in all the
              world.
            • D. Keith Howington
              ... You know, accurate knowledge is a good thing. Empiricism is an excellent way to learn how the world really works, and there s a wealth of knowledge that
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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                Em wrote:

                > Ha! just finished reading the "41 Thunderer" thread. Great thread!
                > Weird song. But I'd been at that point where it was still a mystery.
                > And now the mysterious depths have been at least partially "plumbed". :(
                > So I'm in a weird place, on one hand wanting to hear everyone's
                > thoughts and talk about the songs, and on the other hand I want to let
                > them fly without being too closely examined. To not get too empirical
                > about all this.

                You know, accurate knowledge is a good thing. Empiricism is an
                excellent way to learn how the world really works, and there's a wealth
                of knowledge that has been offered on this group of Dave and Tracy and
                their history and musical origins and origins of the songs themselves.

                It has been very interesting for me, and it expands my own enjoyment --
                just as understanding the 1896 presidential election issues can expand
                enjoyment of "The Wizard of Oz". In both cases, I STILL enjoy the music
                and the stories, and now for even more reasons. ];-)

                > But you guys are so gentle and loose in your "detecting"...that it
                > seems fine to do so.

                Of course. Reading the older messages of this group will provide much
                enjoyment, I think.

                > Anyway thanks again for pointing out that old thread. Question: do you
                > all ever do the song of the week thing anymore? or is that ancient
                > history already?

                It's been a while. But discussions erupt about various songs from time
                to time, and you'll find that talking about Dave and Tracy's music is a
                popular topic here. ];-)

                ===|================/ D. Keith Howington, CEO (CEO@...)
              • Em
                ... Em, Tillman County is one of my very favorite songs in all the ... Me too Bonny. Takes my breath away. As Neil Young said [it] picks me up and lays me
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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                  --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "Bonny Holder" > PS,
                  Em, "Tillman County" is one of my very favorite songs in all the
                  > world.

                  Me too Bonny. Takes my breath away.
                  As Neil Young said [it] "picks me up and lays me down again"
                  that song does.
                  I don't have much in the way of hair on my arms. But what little
                  hair does exist doesn't know what hit it, since the songs of Dave
                  Carter came to my house.
                  Em

                  ps: so strange and wonderful to aquire new "favorite music" this
                  late in life. I always figured the only truly holy stuff was from way
                  back when

                  pps: thx too, for your thoughts on the 2nd song phenom.
                • cernowain9
                  Hi, I m new here, too, been lurking for months now. I went to see a Cheryl Wheeler concert in Madison WI and Tracy Grammer was the first act. So we just had
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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                    Hi, I'm new here, too, been lurking for months now. I went to see
                    a Cheryl Wheeler concert in Madison WI and Tracy Grammer was the
                    first act. So we just had to buy Tracy's CD's afterwards to listen
                    to. We got Verdant Mile and Drum-Hat-Buddha, and discovered that
                    Dave had written the songs. He was such a great poet and musician.
                    My favorite song is "Gentle Arms of Eden", since I enjoy Goddess
                    spirituality.
                    Anyway, I have a question about "Tillman Co". What does the line
                    mean in the third verse that says "ryan and points south"?

                    Cern



                    --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "Em" <emzdogz@t...> wrote:
                    > --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "Bonny Holder" > PS,
                    > Em, "Tillman County" is one of my very favorite songs in all the
                    > > world.
                    >
                    > Me too Bonny. Takes my breath away.
                    > As Neil Young said [it] "picks me up and lays me down again"
                    > that song does.
                  • RG
                    ... the third verse that says ryan and points south ?
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 1, 2005
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                      >> I have a question about "Tillman Co". What does the line mean in
                      the third verse that says "ryan and points south"? <<

                      Ryan's a city in Oklahoma, although in Jefferson (not Tillman)
                      County. The lyric is referring to where the lines are down and the
                      power is out.

                      RG
                    • Em
                      yeah thats the kind of language you hear during disasters. Makes ya nervous! We get that kind of alot here in Florida, with the hurricanes that tend to whip
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 2, 2005
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                        yeah thats the kind of language you hear during disasters. Makes ya nervous! We get
                        that kind of alot here in Florida, with the hurricanes that tend to whip thru here.
                        I like the idea of the trickster summoning the demon.
                        "demon come screamin' "
                        yikes!
                        Em


                        Very scary.--- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "RG" <Rongrittz@a...> wrote:
                        > >> I have a question about "Tillman Co". What does the line mean in
                        > the third verse that says "ryan and points south"? <<
                        >
                        > Ryan's a city in Oklahoma, although in Jefferson (not Tillman)
                        > County. The lyric is referring to where the lines are down and the
                        > power is out.
                        >
                        > RG
                      • Em
                        You know I have to confess that I find it disturbing that I am attracted to that verse. In the loosest sense, to me, it has an almost fun *revolutionary* tone
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 2, 2005
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                          You know I have to confess that I find it disturbing that I am attracted to that verse.
                          In the loosest sense, to me, it has an almost fun *revolutionary* tone to it, ala:
                          "Don't change before the empire falls - you'll laugh so hard you'll crack the walls"
                          .....or
                          "Fall mountain - just don't fall on me"
                          ..that kind of thing.
                          But then I think of other phrases like that which are somewhat of an abomination, like
                          the USMC's "kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out"
                          sigh.....and I worry...wow man, is it the same thing????
                          Hope not. Just examining my own heart here....
                          why do the first couple quotes, along with Dave's demon twister verse seem so clean
                          and pure (to me) while the other one seems so irresponsible and heinous and putrid?
                          I know I'm probably offending some Marine on here. lol.
                          Sorry for the subjective post. Just lookin' to jam with you all....
                          :)
                          Em


                          --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "Em" <emzdogz@t...> wrote:
                          > yeah thats the kind of language you hear during disasters. Makes ya nervous! We get
                          > that kind of alot here in Florida, with the hurricanes that tend to whip thru here.
                          > I like the idea of the trickster summoning the demon.
                          > "demon come screamin' "
                          > yikes!
                          > Em
                          >
                          >
                          > Very scary.--- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "RG" <Rongrittz@a...> wrote:
                          > > >> I have a question about "Tillman Co". What does the line mean in
                          > > the third verse that says "ryan and points south"? <<
                          > >
                          > > Ryan's a city in Oklahoma, although in Jefferson (not Tillman)
                          > > County. The lyric is referring to where the lines are down and the
                          > > power is out.
                          > >
                          > > RG
                        • Linda Silas
                          Well, in the case of Tillman County, the demon is a tornado - not exactly in the control of a thinking feeling being unless you think either it has its own
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 2, 2005
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                            Well, in the case of Tillman County, the demon is a tornado - not exactly in
                            the control of a thinking feeling being unless you think either it has its own
                            goals or that whatever gods there may be actually micromanage this world. In
                            the other cases you cite, there is human choice involved.

                            I, too, abhor humn violence, but I've always been fascinated by natural
                            phenomena - I used to stand out on my baalcony in Oklahoma and watch the
                            tornados go by, until they got so close I couldn't stand still any more - then
                            I'd run for the basement!

                            - Linda

                            --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "Em" <emzdogz@t...> wrote:
                            > You know I have to confess that I find it disturbing that I am attracted to that verse.
                            > In the loosest sense, to me, it has an almost fun *revolutionary* tone to it, ala:
                            > "Don't change before the empire falls - you'll laugh so hard you'll crack the walls"
                            > .....or
                            > "Fall mountain - just don't fall on me"
                            > ..that kind of thing.
                            > But then I think of other phrases like that which are somewhat of an abomination, like
                            > the USMC's "kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out"
                            > sigh.....and I worry...wow man, is it the same thing????
                            > Hope not. Just examining my own heart here....
                            > why do the first couple quotes, along with Dave's demon twister verse seem so clean
                            > and pure (to me) while the other one seems so irresponsible and heinous and putrid?
                          • Em
                            ... lol!!!! micromanage!!!! thanks for the laugh. (didn t expect to hear that) yeah I like standing outside when its kicking about 60 mph wind. More than that
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 2, 2005
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                              --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "Linda Silas" <linda@a...> wrote:
                              > or that whatever gods there may be actually micromanage this world.

                              lol!!!! micromanage!!!!
                              thanks for the laugh. (didn't expect to hear that)
                              yeah I like standing outside when its kicking about 60 mph wind. More than that and I
                              run for cover.
                              When the real estate signs start blowing off, I head indoors.
                              Good rush tho.
                              thx for the response, Linda.
                              Em
                            • sassypig1
                              Friends, Here are the lyrics for the two unpublished songs I sang at Falcon Ridge. Love & Hate was unfinished at the time of Dave s death; I am still
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 12, 2009
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                                Friends,

                                Here are the lyrics for the two unpublished songs I sang at Falcon Ridge.

                                "Love & Hate" was unfinished at the time of Dave's death; I am still massaging it a bit. The lyrics for "Tecumseh Fountains" were finished but the song was not arranged. I hope to put these songs on a second tribute which I'm planning for next year.

                                Please feel free to ask me directly about this kind of thing in the future. I want you to have the most accurate information possible, and do whatever I can to help us all move toward an understanding of the Truth inside these songs.

                                Blessings,
                                tg

                                ---------------------------------------

                                love & hate
                                dave carter & tracy grammer
                                -not final-

                                baby butterfly, she binds up her bruises
                                paints her face where the scars run deep
                                lifts her silky voice and calls down her muses
                                sings the gods of the garden to sleep

                                and she has flown from the high plains of rapture
                                she has crawled through the cold hills of fate
                                bound with simple gifts for greener pastures
                                a bowl of ashes on a silver plate
                                lookin for someone to love and hate

                                i have loved too well the long trance of winter
                                the sterile bed and the unclaimed heat
                                now she shakes me and the sky falls in splinters
                                and I awake to the store window street [i sang "cold" at FRFF]

                                and I have flown from the high plains of rapture
                                I have crawled through the cold hills of fate
                                bound with simple gifts for greener pastures
                                an autumn blossom when the frost runs late
                                lookin for someone to love and hate

                                they shut the carny down, the cafes are quiet
                                the blinking lights meet a weary dawn
                                the faded posters cryin "here come the giants"
                                but their brave new world is a long time gone

                                and we have flown from the high plains of rapture
                                and we have crawled through the cold hills of fate
                                bound with simple gifts for greener pastures
                                lonely riders on an outbound freight
                                lookin for someone to love and hate

                                ----------------------------

                                tecumseh fountain
                                -dave carter

                                *note: this song was demo'd for the TT album but didn't make the cut because we hadn't settled on an arrangement.

                                for this reason, i have not been singing v. 3; it actually reads more like a bridge to me and i'm going to experiment with singing it that way. i am also concerned that playing the verses and choruses straight v/c/v/c/v/c/v/c would be tiring for the listener; the chorus is quite dramatic, and repeating it so many times could reduce its effect.

                                v.4 is a little different on paper than what i've been singing. also, sometimes I sing "fountains." not sure why, as Dave intended the singular.

                                in the shelter of cantina la paloma
                                with his ghosts and gray companions all around
                                sits the exiled king of enid, oklahoma
                                waiting for the revolution to die down

                                and he stands up like moses on the mountain
                                and he lifts a glass to darlin clementine
                                cryin, "weep ye no more, tecumseh fountain
                                i will come to you in time, i will come to you in time."

                                he had crossed the sea of dreams, a mighty sailor
                                ever wary of her simple siren song
                                but he loved her like a servant and a jailor
                                and he lost her when a year was barely gone

                                now he stands up ...

                                and the song of love is always there beside him
                                and the song of love is whisp'ring in his ear
                                and there is no way to loose the ties that bind him
                                or to turn the sorry ship that brought him here

                                and he stands up ...

                                now the corner mourns the stories left unspoken
                                though we can't recall the hour he slipped away
                                and the conversation hangs or fades to broken
                                when the shadows get too big to hold at bay

                                and we stand up ...
                              • cernowain9
                                Tracy, Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to generously share these wonderful lyrics. bright blessings, Cern ... Ridge. ... massaging it a
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 14, 2009
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                                  Tracy,

                                  Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to generously share
                                  these wonderful lyrics.

                                  bright blessings,

                                  Cern


                                  --- In Dave-and-Tracy@yahoogroups.com, "sassypig1" <tracy@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Friends,
                                  >
                                  > Here are the lyrics for the two unpublished songs I sang at Falcon
                                  Ridge.
                                  >
                                  > "Love & Hate" was unfinished at the time of Dave's death; I am still
                                  massaging it a bit. The lyrics for "Tecumseh Fountains" were finished
                                  but the song was not arranged. I hope to put these songs on a second
                                  tribute which I'm planning for next year.
                                  >
                                  > Please feel free to ask me directly about this kind of thing in the
                                  future. I want you to have the most accurate information possible, and
                                  do whatever I can to help us all move toward an understanding of the
                                  Truth inside these songs.
                                  >
                                  > Blessings,
                                  > tg
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > love & hate
                                  > dave carter & tracy grammer
                                  > -not final-
                                  >
                                  > baby butterfly, she binds up her bruises
                                  > paints her face where the scars run deep
                                  > lifts her silky voice and calls down her muses
                                  > sings the gods of the garden to sleep
                                  >
                                  > and she has flown from the high plains of rapture
                                  > she has crawled through the cold hills of fate
                                  > bound with simple gifts for greener pastures
                                  > a bowl of ashes on a silver plate
                                  > lookin for someone to love and hate
                                  >
                                  > i have loved too well the long trance of winter
                                  > the sterile bed and the unclaimed heat
                                  > now she shakes me and the sky falls in splinters
                                  > and I awake to the store window street [i sang "cold" at FRFF]
                                  >
                                  > and I have flown from the high plains of rapture
                                  > I have crawled through the cold hills of fate
                                  > bound with simple gifts for greener pastures
                                  > an autumn blossom when the frost runs late
                                  > lookin for someone to love and hate
                                  >
                                  > they shut the carny down, the cafes are quiet
                                  > the blinking lights meet a weary dawn
                                  > the faded posters cryin "here come the giants"
                                  > but their brave new world is a long time gone
                                  >
                                  > and we have flown from the high plains of rapture
                                  > and we have crawled through the cold hills of fate
                                  > bound with simple gifts for greener pastures
                                  > lonely riders on an outbound freight
                                  > lookin for someone to love and hate
                                  >
                                  > ----------------------------
                                  >
                                  > tecumseh fountain
                                  > -dave carter
                                  >
                                  > *note: this song was demo'd for the TT album but didn't make the cut
                                  because we hadn't settled on an arrangement.
                                  >
                                  > for this reason, i have not been singing v. 3; it actually reads more
                                  like a bridge to me and i'm going to experiment with singing it that
                                  way. i am also concerned that playing the verses and choruses straight
                                  v/c/v/c/v/c/v/c would be tiring for the listener; the chorus is quite
                                  dramatic, and repeating it so many times could reduce its effect.
                                  >
                                  > v.4 is a little different on paper than what i've been singing. also,
                                  sometimes I sing "fountains." not sure why, as Dave intended the
                                  singular.
                                  >
                                  > in the shelter of cantina la paloma
                                  > with his ghosts and gray companions all around
                                  > sits the exiled king of enid, oklahoma
                                  > waiting for the revolution to die down
                                  >
                                  > and he stands up like moses on the mountain
                                  > and he lifts a glass to darlin clementine
                                  > cryin, "weep ye no more, tecumseh fountain
                                  > i will come to you in time, i will come to you in time."
                                  >
                                  > he had crossed the sea of dreams, a mighty sailor
                                  > ever wary of her simple siren song
                                  > but he loved her like a servant and a jailor
                                  > and he lost her when a year was barely gone
                                  >
                                  > now he stands up ...
                                  >
                                  > and the song of love is always there beside him
                                  > and the song of love is whisp'ring in his ear
                                  > and there is no way to loose the ties that bind him
                                  > or to turn the sorry ship that brought him here
                                  >
                                  > and he stands up ...
                                  >
                                  > now the corner mourns the stories left unspoken
                                  > though we can't recall the hour he slipped away
                                  > and the conversation hangs or fades to broken
                                  > when the shadows get too big to hold at bay
                                  >
                                  > and we stand up ...
                                  >
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