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RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

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  • Vito Georgievski
    Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience with the methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 6, 2010
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      Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega


      I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience with the methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern Europe),country where doctors,so-called experts made stupid rule that daily dosage of methadone can't be above 120mg/per day.They have made a rule which is not evidence based but even so they refuse to give more than 120mg/per day.
      I am fighting for the individual dosage for more than 5 years.They decide to give me 150 mg/per day only for me(out of 500 clients who are on MMT) but the price what i have had to pay was transferring me from methadone clinic to psychiatric hospital.
      What I want to say:maybe you have lot of things to improve but at least you are not facing with stupid rules,you have TH doses and human approach with the staff in clinics.
      So as somebody else say methadone is a long term process but divided in phases.Each phase need some time which is btw again very individual .
      If I was you i will not rush with tapering down.One year is very short time for methadone.Now days here in my country doctors again are giving interwies where they are introducing bubrenofine/suboxone like a magic drug which will solve the parents problems(what a stupidity like parents will be on this medication) without saying what are the bad sides of this drug.
      I really want to say that i don't have anything negative to say about this drug because I have made my choice which is methadone,so everyone have to have right to chose but all therapeutic approaches like slow release morphine for example.

      Just want to share my expirience with the methadone from other perspective and I'll be very happy if I can help very little.I am on methadone for more then 12 years,working,married and very happy.

      I am wishing you all happy new year,

      Best wishes,

      Vito

      PS Rokki my dear where are you and what is going on


      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@...
      From: hopjr@...
      Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
      Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




























      The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it out and research it completely.

      Claude

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Angela

      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com

      Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM

      Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



      I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much, Ange Q.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















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    • Dann White
      Right on Vito!!!!!! Congaratulations on forcing the system to listen to your needs and increase your dose, even if you had to change the type of program that
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 6, 2010
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        Right on Vito!!!!!!

        Congaratulations on forcing the system to listen to your needs and increase
        your dose, even if you had to change the type of program that you attend to
        get it. It is hard to imagine how they can justify these dose caps, knowing
        what everyone knows about individual tolerances to opiates and their
        analogs.
        Hang in there man; perhaps its time now to campaign for a return to the
        Methadone clinic with the increased dose.
        Keep us posted on your progress and let us know how you are doing,

        Dann White

        -----Original Message-----
        From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vito Georgievski
        Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:24 AM
        To: dolophinea methadonia
        Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




        Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega


        I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience
        with the methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern Europe),country where
        doctors,so-called experts made stupid rule that daily dosage of methadone
        can't be above 120mg/per day.They have made a rule which is not evidence
        based but even so they refuse to give more than 120mg/per day.
        I am fighting for the individual dosage for more than 5 years.They decide to
        give me 150 mg/per day only for me(out of 500 clients who are on MMT) but
        the price what i have had to pay was transferring me from methadone clinic
        to psychiatric hospital.
        What I want to say:maybe you have lot of things to improve but at least you
        are not facing with stupid rules,you have TH doses and human approach with
        the staff in clinics.
        So as somebody else say methadone is a long term process but divided in
        phases.Each phase need some time which is btw again very individual .
        If I was you i will not rush with tapering down.One year is very short time
        for methadone.Now days here in my country doctors again are giving interwies
        where they are introducing bubrenofine/suboxone like a magic drug which will
        solve the parents problems(what a stupidity like parents will be on this
        medication) without saying what are the bad sides of this drug.
        I really want to say that i don't have anything negative to say about this
        drug because I have made my choice which is methadone,so everyone have to
        have right to chose but all therapeutic approaches like slow release
        morphine for example.

        Just want to share my expirience with the methadone from other perspective
        and I'll be very happy if I can help very little.I am on methadone for more
        then 12 years,working,married and very happy.

        I am wishing you all happy new year,

        Best wishes,

        Vito

        PS Rokki my dear where are you and what is going on


        To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@...
        From: hopjr@...
        Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
        Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




























        The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if
        one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually
        suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose
        you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to
        switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for
        everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it
        out and research it completely.

        Claude

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: Angela

        To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com

        Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM

        Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



        I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2
        start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch
        over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would
        love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much,
        Ange Q.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















        _________________________________________________________________
        Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook updates, right from
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        02:35:00
      • Sherryl Sagendorf
        I m hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I m 5/8 and aprox.
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 6, 2010
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          I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
          I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from the methadone. 
          The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by Florida standards.
             Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for 3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely out of your system. 
             Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My only lucky break so far.
             But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score.  This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or beaten the crap out of me.
             I had intended to buy three bags. 
             I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
             I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside. Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more than anything in the world.
             Please help me.




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • claude
          Sheryl the half life for methadone is 24 hrs not 3 weeks the problem you incurred was that you went down too fast and then jumped off of 90mgs that is enough
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 6, 2010
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            Sheryl the half life for methadone is 24 hrs not 3 weeks the problem you incurred was that you went down too fast and then jumped off of 90mgs that is enough to put you into a bad w/d and being on a bad clinic is the biggest problem. methadone works when you are at a place that knows what they are doing and cares for the patients. The proper dose is not determined by weight or size as everyone's system is different, I don't know if you needed 200mg by reading your story but some do need that much and more there are others who may only need 80mg so when one's dose is being adjusted you don't want to go up too fast as it takes your body 5 days to adjust to a dose change and when you taper off in order for a pain free taper it should be no more than 2mg every 2-3 weeks. Methadone is a time commitment and for the medication and counseling and therapy to work one should expect to be on for at least 3 years and most may need to be on for life due to the damage we do when we abuse opiates it rewires our brain chemistry. If you were on 200mg and you find suboxone to work for you then your body probably didn't need 200mg as the highest dose you can go up to on suboxone is 32mg and that is equivalent to about 60-80mg of methadone. and
            if you are getting severe cravings on suboxone you may need an increase but suboxone doesn't stop the cravings as well as methadone. I wish you the best in your recovery.
            Claude
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Sherryl Sagendorf
            To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
            Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



            I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg). I'm 5/8" and aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old. I decided to jump-off methadone and took one week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a week!). I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'. That turned into me needing the coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday. The end result is that I went thru a very harsh detox. I voluntarily discharged myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
            I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on the psychoward. This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I got back in my hospital bed. It was sheer misery. I ended up going to the hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from the methadone.
            The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff. To make matters worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay longer so I would be 'safe'. If I had escaped I would likely have frozen walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by Florida standards.
            Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use. The half-life last for 3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely out of your system.
            Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy. My only lucky break so far.
            But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police via hotline tip. He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a long time. If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or beaten the crap out of me.
            I had intended to buy three bags.
            I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
            I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that I'm home now. But I still want to use; its like an aching inside. Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go back to that f@#*king hospital again. Otherwise, I want to be high more than anything in the world.
            Please help me.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dann White
            Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can t work if you won t give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in treatment you
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
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              Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can't work if
              you won't give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in
              treatment you couldn't afford, yet you claim you did just that, and if that
              wasn't bad enough you followed that with a master stroke of leaving
              treatment without detox.
              To set the record straight for others reading this - let me point out that
              methadone's half-life is just under three days, not three weeks as you say
              you were told; the real mystery to me is how will you pay for Suboxone which
              usually costs about 2-3 times as much as methadone?
              Find your way to a reputable Opiate Treatment Program when you are ready to
              make a commitment to recovery. It is not required that you know how to
              recover up front, but it will be necessary to listen to those who do know
              and make an effort to follow the simple instructions you will be given.
              Keeping these instructions will not require cocaine or even benzos, but it
              will require that you try a new response when you need to "feel better".
              Despite your self sacrificed experience, I suspect that there are more
              patients at that clinic you mentioned that are doing well, or at least doing
              better than they were before they entered treatment. Their commitment to
              treatment included enough willingness to try it with the medication used in
              the treatment; not adding their personal preferences to the mix.
              In a way, recovery is easy, all that you have to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY
              AND LET IT WORK FOR YOU. I hope you do, the only thing worse than dying from
              your addiction is surviving and living in that hell, indefinitely.

              Dann

              -----Original Message-----
              From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sherryl Sagendorf
              Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
              To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

              I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was
              on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and
              aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one
              week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a
              week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and
              depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the
              coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end
              result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged
              myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there
              unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
              I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to
              escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted
              and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on
              the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I
              got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the
              hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from
              the methadone. 
              The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the
              butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any
              relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters
              worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay
              longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen
              walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by
              Florida standards.
                 Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for
              3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely
              out of your system. 
                 Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the
              hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My
              only lucky break so far.
                 But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense
              craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to
              hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. 
              This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police
              via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a
              long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or
              beaten the crap out of me.
                 I had intended to buy three bags. 
                 I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all
              my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have
              people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                 I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that
              I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside.
              Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it
              stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go
              back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more
              than anything in the world.
                 Please help me.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Yahoo! Groups Links




              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: 01/07/10
              14:35:00
            • Sherryl Sagendorf
              Dear Dan,      I have to say that I was surprised at the hostility you expressed in your letter.  You should attend counseling asap.  Part of being an
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
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                Dear Dan,
                 
                   I have to say that I was surprised at the hostility you expressed in your letter.  You should attend counseling asap.  Part of being an addict includes making poor decision repeatedly and changing your behavior so that you reach out for help via other people in the program rather than drugs.  Clearly, you are an insipid idiot who belongs chained to a clinic that condescends to treat you everyday.  Stick with your treatment, you need it.
                 
                 
                Sherryl S.

                --- On Fri, 1/8/10, Dann White <dwtoo@...> wrote:


                From: Dann White <dwtoo@...>
                Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
                To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 8:17 AM


                 



                Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can't work if
                you won't give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in
                treatment you couldn't afford, yet you claim you did just that, and if that
                wasn't bad enough you followed that with a master stroke of leaving
                treatment without detox.
                To set the record straight for others reading this - let me point out that
                methadone's half-life is just under three days, not three weeks as you say
                you were told; the real mystery to me is how will you pay for Suboxone which
                usually costs about 2-3 times as much as methadone?
                Find your way to a reputable Opiate Treatment Program when you are ready to
                make a commitment to recovery. It is not required that you know how to
                recover up front, but it will be necessary to listen to those who do know
                and make an effort to follow the simple instructions you will be given.
                Keeping these instructions will not require cocaine or even benzos, but it
                will require that you try a new response when you need to "feel better".
                Despite your self sacrificed experience, I suspect that there are more
                patients at that clinic you mentioned that are doing well, or at least doing
                better than they were before they entered treatment. Their commitment to
                treatment included enough willingness to try it with the medication used in
                the treatment; not adding their personal preferences to the mix.
                In a way, recovery is easy, all that you have to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY
                AND LET IT WORK FOR YOU. I hope you do, the only thing worse than dying from
                your addiction is surviving and living in that hell, indefinitely.

                Dann

                -----Original Message-----
                From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Sherryl Sagendorf
                Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was
                on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and
                aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one
                week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a
                week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and
                depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the
                coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end
                result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged
                myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there
                unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to
                escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted
                and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on
                the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I
                got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the
                hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from
                the methadone. 
                The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the
                butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any
                relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters
                worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay
                longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen
                walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by
                Florida standards.
                   Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for
                3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely
                out of your system. 
                   Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the
                hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My
                only lucky break so far.
                   But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense
                craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to
                hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. 
                This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police
                via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a
                long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or
                beaten the crap out of me.
                   I had intended to buy three bags. 
                   I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all
                my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have
                people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                   I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that
                I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside.
                Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it
                stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go
                back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more
                than anything in the world.
                   Please help me.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------ --------- --------- ------

                Yahoo! Groups Links

                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: 01/07/10
                14:35:00











                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Sherryl Sagendorf
                P. S. I m doing better than I ever have on Suboxone under the care of a psychiatrist who is not recomending that I take mushrooms to cure my addiction. 
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  P. S. I'm doing better than I ever have on Suboxone under the care of a psychiatrist who is not recomending that I take mushrooms to "cure" my addiction.  Thanks for listening.  Keep coming back, clearly you need it.  This group is for support not an arrogant condescending putdown.  Clearly you are a bitter old addict who wasted their life hurting others and continue to do so.  Thanks for listening.

                  --- On Fri, 1/8/10, Dann White <dwtoo@...> wrote:


                  From: Dann White <dwtoo@...>
                  Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
                  To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 8:17 AM


                   



                  Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can't work if
                  you won't give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in
                  treatment you couldn't afford, yet you claim you did just that, and if that
                  wasn't bad enough you followed that with a master stroke of leaving
                  treatment without detox.
                  To set the record straight for others reading this - let me point out that
                  methadone's half-life is just under three days, not three weeks as you say
                  you were told; the real mystery to me is how will you pay for Suboxone which
                  usually costs about 2-3 times as much as methadone?
                  Find your way to a reputable Opiate Treatment Program when you are ready to
                  make a commitment to recovery. It is not required that you know how to
                  recover up front, but it will be necessary to listen to those who do know
                  and make an effort to follow the simple instructions you will be given.
                  Keeping these instructions will not require cocaine or even benzos, but it
                  will require that you try a new response when you need to "feel better".
                  Despite your self sacrificed experience, I suspect that there are more
                  patients at that clinic you mentioned that are doing well, or at least doing
                  better than they were before they entered treatment. Their commitment to
                  treatment included enough willingness to try it with the medication used in
                  the treatment; not adding their personal preferences to the mix.
                  In a way, recovery is easy, all that you have to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY
                  AND LET IT WORK FOR YOU. I hope you do, the only thing worse than dying from
                  your addiction is surviving and living in that hell, indefinitely.

                  Dann

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                  [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Sherryl Sagendorf
                  Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                  To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                  I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was
                  on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and
                  aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one
                  week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a
                  week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and
                  depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the
                  coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end
                  result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged
                  myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there
                  unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                  I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to
                  escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted
                  and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on
                  the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I
                  got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the
                  hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from
                  the methadone. 
                  The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the
                  butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any
                  relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters
                  worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay
                  longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen
                  walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by
                  Florida standards.
                     Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for
                  3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely
                  out of your system. 
                     Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the
                  hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My
                  only lucky break so far.
                     But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense
                  craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to
                  hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. 
                  This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police
                  via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a
                  long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or
                  beaten the crap out of me.
                     I had intended to buy three bags. 
                     I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all
                  my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have
                  people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                     I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that
                  I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside.
                  Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it
                  stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go
                  back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more
                  than anything in the world.
                     Please help me.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                • Sherryl Sagendorf
                  Thank you so much for you supportive letter.  I recieved an unsolicited letter from a Dan that was upsetting because it was so condescending and
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thank you so much for you supportive letter.  I recieved an unsolicited letter from a "Dan" that was upsetting because it was so condescending and insensitive.  Its nice to know that there are decent men in recovery who can be supportive without feeling their masculinity is threatened.  His letter definitly made me recall the militant cliques that sometimes occur in the rooms of NA.  People that are so down on themselves and bitter that they try to make everyone around them miserable, too.  That part of NA I do not miss.  I don't want to engage with sick people who 13th step and put others down to make themselves feel better.  They are like dry drunks.
                     
                    Anyway,  I MADE IT!!!  And, by the way, my counselor was transferred to another clinic for mishandling my case.  Before he left, I talked to him and he told me that my experience of sticking up for my rights at the clinic is going to change policy and the clinic will be a better place because of it.  I understand that I was using and completely out of control, methadone was my safety net/comfort zone and it failed for me because I felt completely conflicted about being on it.  I was literally sleeping my life away. 
                     
                    Today is my first week on Suboxone and for the first time I feel TERRIFFIC!!!  I've done more chores today than I have in three weeks.  I'm relearning how to be responsible/functional again without dosing and walking around in a partial coma.  I lost my methadone fat, got my hair cut and I look and feel just wonderful.  Its like I'm a newborn and I have my whole life ahead of me. 
                     
                    I know that I have created alot of chaos in my life but I now feel confident that I can make improvements and meet my goals.  One day at a time.  I believe!
                     
                    Glad to be Alive,
                     
                     
                    Sherryl S.

                    --- On Thu, 1/7/10, claude <hopjr@...> wrote:


                    From: claude <hopjr@...>
                    Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
                    To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 1:13 AM


                     



                    Sheryl the half life for methadone is 24 hrs not 3 weeks the problem you incurred was that you went down too fast and then jumped off of 90mgs that is enough to put you into a bad w/d and being on a bad clinic is the biggest problem. methadone works when you are at a place that knows what they are doing and cares for the patients. The proper dose is not determined by weight or size as everyone's system is different, I don't know if you needed 200mg by reading your story but some do need that much and more there are others who may only need 80mg so when one's dose is being adjusted you don't want to go up too fast as it takes your body 5 days to adjust to a dose change and when you taper off in order for a pain free taper it should be no more than 2mg every 2-3 weeks. Methadone is a time commitment and for the medication and counseling and therapy to work one should expect to be on for at least 3 years and most may need to be on for life due to the damage
                    we do when we abuse opiates it rewires our brain chemistry. If you were on 200mg and you find suboxone to work for you then your body probably didn't need 200mg as the highest dose you can go up to on suboxone is 32mg and that is equivalent to about 60-80mg of methadone. and
                    if you are getting severe cravings on suboxone you may need an increase but suboxone doesn't stop the cravings as well as methadone. I wish you the best in your recovery.
                    Claude
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Sherryl Sagendorf
                    To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                    Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                    I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg). I'm 5/8" and aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old. I decided to jump-off methadone and took one week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a week!). I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'. That turned into me needing the coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday. The end result is that I went thru a very harsh detox. I voluntarily discharged myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                    I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on the psychoward. This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I got back in my hospital bed. It was sheer misery. I ended up going to the hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from the methadone.
                    The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff. To make matters worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay longer so I would be 'safe'. If I had escaped I would likely have frozen walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by Florida standards.
                    Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use. The half-life last for 3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely out of your system.
                    Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy. My only lucky break so far.
                    But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police via hotline tip. He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a long time. If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or beaten the crap out of me.
                    I had intended to buy three bags.
                    I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                    I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that I'm home now. But I still want to use; its like an aching inside. Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go back to that f@#*king hospital again. Otherwise, I want to be high more than anything in the world.
                    Please help me.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • claude
                    Thank you Vito for sharing your story............ Claude ... From: Vito Georgievski To: dolophinea methadonia
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thank you Vito for sharing your story............
                      Claude
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Vito Georgievski" <vitodov@...>
                      To: "dolophinea methadonia" <dolophinea_cafe@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:23 AM
                      Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process





                      Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega


                      I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience
                      with the methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern Europe),country where
                      doctors,so-called experts made stupid rule that daily dosage of methadone
                      can't be above 120mg/per day.They have made a rule which is not evidence
                      based but even so they refuse to give more than 120mg/per day.
                      I am fighting for the individual dosage for more than 5 years.They decide to
                      give me 150 mg/per day only for me(out of 500 clients who are on MMT) but
                      the price what i have had to pay was transferring me from methadone clinic
                      to psychiatric hospital.
                      What I want to say:maybe you have lot of things to improve but at least you
                      are not facing with stupid rules,you have TH doses and human approach with
                      the staff in clinics.
                      So as somebody else say methadone is a long term process but divided in
                      phases.Each phase need some time which is btw again very individual .
                      If I was you i will not rush with tapering down.One year is very short time
                      for methadone.Now days here in my country doctors again are giving interwies
                      where they are introducing bubrenofine/suboxone like a magic drug which will
                      solve the parents problems(what a stupidity like parents will be on this
                      medication) without saying what are the bad sides of this drug.
                      I really want to say that i don't have anything negative to say about this
                      drug because I have made my choice which is methadone,so everyone have to
                      have right to chose but all therapeutic approaches like slow release
                      morphine for example.

                      Just want to share my expirience with the methadone from other perspective
                      and I'll be very happy if I can help very little.I am on methadone for more
                      then 12 years,working,married and very happy.

                      I am wishing you all happy new year,

                      Best wishes,

                      Vito

                      PS Rokki my dear where are you and what is going on


                      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@...
                      From: hopjr@...
                      Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
                      Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




























                      The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if
                      one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually
                      suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose
                      you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to
                      switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for
                      everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it
                      out and research it completely.

                      Claude

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: Angela

                      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com

                      Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM

                      Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



                      I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2
                      start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch
                      over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would
                      love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much,
                      Ange Q.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















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                    • Dann White
                      I am not quite sure how I came up with the statement that methadone has a half-life of just under three days , I know better and must have made a mistake when
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 12, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I am not quite sure how I came up with the statement that methadone has a
                        half-life of "just under three days", I know better and must have made a
                        mistake when editing my comments. As I recall the Merck Manual states a
                        half-life of 24-38 hours for methadone, other sources are in the same
                        general vicinity. The rest of what I said was exactly as I meant it.
                        It is sad that in many cases MMT is not available to everyone who needs it;
                        sometimes it is only available to those that can afford it. If these clinics
                        are going to admit patients who are unlikely to be able to sustain the cost
                        of treatment, they need to be required to give humane detox regimens to the
                        patients they admit.
                        Here in North Carolina you can be discharged on the first day that you
                        cannot pay with NO graduated withdrawal.
                        What a world, huh?

                        Dann
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dann White
                        Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:17 AM
                        To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                        Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can't work if
                        you won't give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in
                        treatment you couldn't afford, yet you claim you did just that, and if that
                        wasn't bad enough you followed that with a master stroke of leaving
                        treatment without detox.
                        To set the record straight for others reading this - let me point out that
                        methadone's half-life is just under three days, not three weeks as you say
                        you were told; the real mystery to me is how will you pay for Suboxone which
                        usually costs about 2-3 times as much as methadone?
                        Find your way to a reputable Opiate Treatment Program when you are ready to
                        make a commitment to recovery. It is not required that you know how to
                        recover up front, but it will be necessary to listen to those who do know
                        and make an effort to follow the simple instructions you will be given.
                        Keeping these instructions will not require cocaine or even benzos, but it
                        will require that you try a new response when you need to "feel better".
                        Despite your self sacrificed experience, I suspect that there are more
                        patients at that clinic you mentioned that are doing well, or at least doing
                        better than they were before they entered treatment. Their commitment to
                        treatment included enough willingness to try it with the medication used in
                        the treatment; not adding their personal preferences to the mix.
                        In a way, recovery is easy, all that you have to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY
                        AND LET IT WORK FOR YOU. I hope you do, the only thing worse than dying from
                        your addiction is surviving and living in that hell, indefinitely.

                        Dann

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sherryl Sagendorf
                        Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                        To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                        I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was
                        on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and
                        aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one
                        week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a
                        week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and
                        depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the
                        coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end
                        result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged
                        myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there
                        unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                        I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to
                        escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted
                        and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on
                        the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I
                        got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the
                        hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from
                        the methadone. 
                        The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the
                        butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any
                        relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters
                        worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay
                        longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen
                        walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by
                        Florida standards.
                           Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for
                        3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely
                        out of your system. 
                           Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the
                        hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My
                        only lucky break so far.
                           But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense
                        craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to
                        hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. 
                        This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police
                        via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a
                        long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or
                        beaten the crap out of me.
                           I had intended to buy three bags. 
                           I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all
                        my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have
                        people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                           I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that
                        I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside.
                        Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it
                        stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go
                        back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more
                        than anything in the world.
                           Please help me.




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                        02:35:00
                      • Angela Quillen
                        Thank you soooo much 4 your story. I have decided to delay the w/drawal process for a few months atleast, due to the fact that I transferred clinics from
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thank you soooo much 4 your story. I have decided to delay the w/drawal process for a few months atleast, due to the fact that I transferred clinics from Jacksonville to Daytona Beach.




                          ________________________________
                          From: Vito Georgievski <vitodov@...>
                          To: dolophinea methadonia <dolophinea_cafe@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 9:23:32 AM
                          Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




                          Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega


                          I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience with the  methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern Europe),country where doctors,so-called experts made stupid rule that daily dosage of methadone can't be above 120mg/per day.They have made  a rule which is not evidence based but even so they refuse to give more than 120mg/per day.
                          I am fighting for the individual dosage for more than 5 years.They decide to give me 150 mg/per day only for me(out of 500 clients who are on MMT) but the price what i have had to pay was transferring me from methadone clinic to psychiatric hospital.
                          What I want to say:maybe you have lot of things to improve but at least you are not facing with stupid rules,you have TH doses and human approach with the staff in clinics.
                          So as somebody else say methadone is a long term process but divided in phases.Each phase need  some time which is btw again very individual .
                          If I was you i will not rush with tapering down.One year is very short time for methadone.Now days here in my country doctors again are giving interwies where they are introducing bubrenofine/suboxone like a magic drug which will solve the parents problems(what a stupidity like parents will be on this medication) without saying what are the bad sides of this drug.
                          I really want to say that i don't have anything negative to say about this drug because I have made my choice which is methadone,so everyone have to have right to chose but all therapeutic approaches like slow release morphine for example.

                          Just want to share my expirience with the methadone from other perspective and I'll be very happy if I can help very little.I am on methadone for more then 12 years,working,married and very happy.

                          I am wishing you all happy new year,

                          Best wishes,

                          Vito

                          PS Rokki my dear  where are you and what is going on


                          To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@...
                          From: hopjr@...
                          Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
                          Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process






















                           


                             
                               
                               
                                The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it out and research it completely.

                          Claude

                            ----- Original Message -----

                            From: Angela

                            To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com

                            Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM

                            Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



                          I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to Suboxone.. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much, Ange Q.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                             
                             

                             
                             






                                                   
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                        • Angela Quillen
                          Hi Claude! This is Ange here ( the one who started the whole ? about What s The Best Way To Start The W/Drawal Process )!!!! Anyways, I agree w/ alot that
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
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                            Hi Claude! This is Ange here ( the one who started the whole ? about "What's The Best Way To Start The W/Drawal Process" )!!!! Anyways, I agree w/ alot that you have to say. I think my main issue is FEAR!!!!! Fear alone keeps me from even entertaining the thought of being w/drawn from the methadone, regardless that its medically supervised. Very luckily for me both clinics I've been w/ are very good @ pretty much everything they should be good at.. Or I'm the lucky one. Regardless, fear is my issue. I just this week that just passed transferred from the Jacksonville Metro Treatment Ctr. to the Daytona Beach Metro Treatment Ctr. For privacy reasons, I will not put down my counselors name, but I've addressed this severe FEAR I have, & he is 100% understanding, & will help me every step of the way when I'm ready to start w/drawing. I did make the decision to hold-off for a few months on the w/drawal process because I would like to become much better
                            acquainted w/ my counselor & I am hoping that while doing this it will help w/ my mental block I'm having about this. If you or anyone else have any words of wisdom re: the fear I'm experiencing, I would love to hear it..    -  Thanx, Ange Q.




                            ________________________________
                            From: claude <hopjr@...>
                            To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 1:13:00 AM
                            Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                             
                            Sheryl the half life for methadone is 24 hrs not 3 weeks the problem you incurred was that you went down too fast and then jumped off of 90mgs that is enough to put you into a bad w/d and being on a bad clinic is the biggest problem. methadone works when you are at a place that knows what they are doing and cares for the patients. The proper dose is not determined by weight or size as everyone's system is different, I don't know if you needed 200mg by reading your story but some do need that much and more there are others who may only need 80mg so when one's dose is being adjusted you don't want to go up too fast as it takes your body 5 days to adjust to a dose change and when you taper off in order for a pain free taper it should be no more than 2mg every 2-3 weeks. Methadone is a time commitment and for the medication and counseling and therapy to work one should expect to be on for at least 3 years and most may need to be on for life due to the damage
                            we do when we abuse opiates it rewires our brain chemistry. If you were on 200mg and you find suboxone to work for you then your body probably didn't need 200mg as the highest dose you can go up to on suboxone is 32mg and that is equivalent to about 60-80mg of methadone. and
                            if you are getting severe cravings on suboxone you may need an increase but suboxone doesn't stop the cravings as well as methadone. I wish you the best in your recovery.
                            Claude
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Sherryl Sagendorf
                            To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                            Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                            I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg). I'm 5/8" and aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old. I decided to jump-off methadone and took one week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a week!). I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'. That turned into me needing the coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday. The end result is that I went thru a very harsh detox. I voluntarily discharged myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                            I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on the psychoward. This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I got back in my hospital bed. It was sheer misery. I ended up going to the hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from the methadone.
                            The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff. To make matters worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay longer so I would be 'safe'. If I had escaped I would likely have frozen walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by Florida standards.
                            Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use. The half-life last for 3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely out of your system.
                            Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy. My only lucky break so far.
                            But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police via hotline tip. He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a long time. If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or beaten the crap out of me.
                            I had intended to buy three bags.
                            I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                            I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that I'm home now. But I still want to use; its like an aching inside. Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go back to that f@#*king hospital again. Otherwise, I want to be high more than anything in the world.
                            Please help me.

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