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The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

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  • Angela
    I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 1, 2010
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      I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much, Ange Q.
    • michael barrier
      Forming new chapter of nama here in Mississippi, all those wanting to get involved please submit email message, we are in need of many to get involved to help
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 2, 2010
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        Forming new chapter of nama here in Mississippi, all those wanting to get involved please submit email message, we are in need of many to get involved to help establish more clinic locations here in the state.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • claude
        The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually suboxone won t
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 2, 2010
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          The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it out and research it completely.
          Claude
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Angela
          To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM
          Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




          I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much, Ange Q.





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dann white
          Claude is right, you are probably not a candidate for suboxone or subutex. Another point to consider is 1 year in methadone treatment is in all likelihood, too
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 4, 2010
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            Claude is right, you are probably not a candidate for suboxone or subutex. Another point to consider is 1 year in methadone treatment is in all likelihood, too early to consider any changes or withdrawal at all.
            Consider continuing treatment for another 30 to 42 months and focus on repairing the wreckage in the wake of your addiction. Statistically the odds against successful withdrawal in the next couple of years are close to 95% against you.
            A relationship with an informed certified addiction therapist and/or a sponsor in a program such as Methadone Anonymous would be well-advised - avoid any association with any advisor who gives a knee-jerk responses about methadone maintenance being anything like "using" or a crutch, etc..
            Taking prescribed medication from an informed physician for any period of time is appropriate for your condition and the neurological changes/damage your use of opiates have caused. You are fortunate to have found your way into the most successful course of treatment available, trying to rewrite the protocol to suit yourself, uninformed moralists, or any of the overnight phd's in whatever 12-step group you happen upon, could cost you a relapse, even your life.

            Dann White

            > To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
            > From: hopjr@...
            > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
            > Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
            >
            > The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it out and research it completely.
            > Claude
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Angela
            > To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM
            > Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much, Ange Q.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >

            _________________________________________________________________
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          • prezrokki@comcast.net
            So GOOD to hear from You,Dann....:) Rokki Roxanne Baker C.M.A. PRESIDENT of NAMA NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR MEDICATION ASSISTED RECOVERY www.methadone.org METHADONE
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 5, 2010
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              So GOOD to hear from You,Dann....:)


              Rokki

              Roxanne Baker C.M.A.
              PRESIDENT of NAMA
              NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR MEDICATION ASSISTED
              RECOVERY
              www.methadone.org
              METHADONE IS MEDICINE!!!

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "dann white" <dwtoo@...>
              To: "dolophinea cafe" <dolophinea_cafe@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 9:11:05 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
              Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process







              Claude is right, you are probably not a candidate for suboxone or subutex. Another point to consider is 1 year in methadone treatment is in all likelihood, too early to consider any changes or withdrawal at all.
              Consider continuing treatment for another 30 to 42 months and focus on repairing the wreckage in the wake of your addiction. Statistically the odds against successful withdrawal in the next couple of years are close to 95% against you.
              A relationship with an informed certified addiction therapist and/or a sponsor in a program such as Methadone Anonymous would be well-advised - avoid any association with any advisor who gives a knee-jerk responses about methadone maintenance being anything like "using" or a crutch, etc..
              Taking prescribed medication from an informed physician for any period of time is appropriate for your condition and the neurological changes/damage your use of opiates have caused. You are fortunate to have found your way into the most successful course of treatment available, trying to rewrite the protocol to suit yourself, uninformed moralists, or any of the overnight phd's in whatever 12-step group you happen upon, could cost you a relapse, even your life.

              Dann White

              > To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
              > From: hopjr@...
              > Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
              > Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
              >
              > The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it out and research it completely.
              > Claude
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Angela
              > To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM
              > Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much, Ange Q.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >

              __________________________________________________________
              Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
              http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dann white
              I may be quiet, but never far away........... One learns more by listening anyway, good to talk to you Rokki, Dann He that makes himself an Ass, must not take
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 5, 2010
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                I may be quiet, but never far away...........


                One learns more by listening anyway, good to talk to you Rokki,

                Dann

                He that makes himself an Ass, must not take it ill, if Men ride him.-Thomas Fuller

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              • prezrokki@comcast.net
                Always good to talk to you,Dann..is good to know your always in the background...:) Rokki Roxanne Baker C.M.A. PRESIDENT of NAMA NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 5, 2010
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                  Always good to talk to you,Dann..is good to know your always in the background...:)


                  Rokki

                  Roxanne Baker C.M.A.
                  PRESIDENT of NAMA
                  NATIONAL ALLIANCE FOR MEDICATION ASSISTED
                  RECOVERY
                  www.methadone.org
                  METHADONE IS MEDICINE!!!

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "dann white" <dwtoo@...>
                  To: "dolophinea cafe" <dolophinea_cafe@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2010 7:22:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
                  Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process







                  I may be quiet, but never far away...........

                  One learns more by listening anyway, good to talk to you Rokki,

                  Dann

                  He that makes himself an Ass, must not take it ill, if Men ride him.-Thomas Fuller

                  __________________________________________________________
                  Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                • Vito Georgievski
                  Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience with the methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 6, 2010
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                    Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega


                    I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience with the methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern Europe),country where doctors,so-called experts made stupid rule that daily dosage of methadone can't be above 120mg/per day.They have made a rule which is not evidence based but even so they refuse to give more than 120mg/per day.
                    I am fighting for the individual dosage for more than 5 years.They decide to give me 150 mg/per day only for me(out of 500 clients who are on MMT) but the price what i have had to pay was transferring me from methadone clinic to psychiatric hospital.
                    What I want to say:maybe you have lot of things to improve but at least you are not facing with stupid rules,you have TH doses and human approach with the staff in clinics.
                    So as somebody else say methadone is a long term process but divided in phases.Each phase need some time which is btw again very individual .
                    If I was you i will not rush with tapering down.One year is very short time for methadone.Now days here in my country doctors again are giving interwies where they are introducing bubrenofine/suboxone like a magic drug which will solve the parents problems(what a stupidity like parents will be on this medication) without saying what are the bad sides of this drug.
                    I really want to say that i don't have anything negative to say about this drug because I have made my choice which is methadone,so everyone have to have right to chose but all therapeutic approaches like slow release morphine for example.

                    Just want to share my expirience with the methadone from other perspective and I'll be very happy if I can help very little.I am on methadone for more then 12 years,working,married and very happy.

                    I am wishing you all happy new year,

                    Best wishes,

                    Vito

                    PS Rokki my dear where are you and what is going on


                    To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@...
                    From: hopjr@...
                    Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
                    Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




























                    The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it out and research it completely.

                    Claude

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: Angela

                    To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com

                    Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM

                    Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



                    I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much, Ange Q.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















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                  • Dann White
                    Right on Vito!!!!!! Congaratulations on forcing the system to listen to your needs and increase your dose, even if you had to change the type of program that
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 6, 2010
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                      Right on Vito!!!!!!

                      Congaratulations on forcing the system to listen to your needs and increase
                      your dose, even if you had to change the type of program that you attend to
                      get it. It is hard to imagine how they can justify these dose caps, knowing
                      what everyone knows about individual tolerances to opiates and their
                      analogs.
                      Hang in there man; perhaps its time now to campaign for a return to the
                      Methadone clinic with the increased dose.
                      Keep us posted on your progress and let us know how you are doing,

                      Dann White

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vito Georgievski
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:24 AM
                      To: dolophinea methadonia
                      Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




                      Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega


                      I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience
                      with the methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern Europe),country where
                      doctors,so-called experts made stupid rule that daily dosage of methadone
                      can't be above 120mg/per day.They have made a rule which is not evidence
                      based but even so they refuse to give more than 120mg/per day.
                      I am fighting for the individual dosage for more than 5 years.They decide to
                      give me 150 mg/per day only for me(out of 500 clients who are on MMT) but
                      the price what i have had to pay was transferring me from methadone clinic
                      to psychiatric hospital.
                      What I want to say:maybe you have lot of things to improve but at least you
                      are not facing with stupid rules,you have TH doses and human approach with
                      the staff in clinics.
                      So as somebody else say methadone is a long term process but divided in
                      phases.Each phase need some time which is btw again very individual .
                      If I was you i will not rush with tapering down.One year is very short time
                      for methadone.Now days here in my country doctors again are giving interwies
                      where they are introducing bubrenofine/suboxone like a magic drug which will
                      solve the parents problems(what a stupidity like parents will be on this
                      medication) without saying what are the bad sides of this drug.
                      I really want to say that i don't have anything negative to say about this
                      drug because I have made my choice which is methadone,so everyone have to
                      have right to chose but all therapeutic approaches like slow release
                      morphine for example.

                      Just want to share my expirience with the methadone from other perspective
                      and I'll be very happy if I can help very little.I am on methadone for more
                      then 12 years,working,married and very happy.

                      I am wishing you all happy new year,

                      Best wishes,

                      Vito

                      PS Rokki my dear where are you and what is going on


                      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@...
                      From: hopjr@...
                      Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
                      Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




























                      The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if
                      one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually
                      suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose
                      you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to
                      switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for
                      everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it
                      out and research it completely.

                      Claude

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: Angela

                      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com

                      Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM

                      Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



                      I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2
                      start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch
                      over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would
                      love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much,
                      Ange Q.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















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                      HotmailR.
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                      02:35:00
                    • Sherryl Sagendorf
                      I m hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I m 5/8 and aprox.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 6, 2010
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                        I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                        I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from the methadone. 
                        The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by Florida standards.
                           Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for 3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely out of your system. 
                           Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My only lucky break so far.
                           But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score.  This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or beaten the crap out of me.
                           I had intended to buy three bags. 
                           I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                           I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside. Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more than anything in the world.
                           Please help me.




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • claude
                        Sheryl the half life for methadone is 24 hrs not 3 weeks the problem you incurred was that you went down too fast and then jumped off of 90mgs that is enough
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 6, 2010
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                          Sheryl the half life for methadone is 24 hrs not 3 weeks the problem you incurred was that you went down too fast and then jumped off of 90mgs that is enough to put you into a bad w/d and being on a bad clinic is the biggest problem. methadone works when you are at a place that knows what they are doing and cares for the patients. The proper dose is not determined by weight or size as everyone's system is different, I don't know if you needed 200mg by reading your story but some do need that much and more there are others who may only need 80mg so when one's dose is being adjusted you don't want to go up too fast as it takes your body 5 days to adjust to a dose change and when you taper off in order for a pain free taper it should be no more than 2mg every 2-3 weeks. Methadone is a time commitment and for the medication and counseling and therapy to work one should expect to be on for at least 3 years and most may need to be on for life due to the damage we do when we abuse opiates it rewires our brain chemistry. If you were on 200mg and you find suboxone to work for you then your body probably didn't need 200mg as the highest dose you can go up to on suboxone is 32mg and that is equivalent to about 60-80mg of methadone. and
                          if you are getting severe cravings on suboxone you may need an increase but suboxone doesn't stop the cravings as well as methadone. I wish you the best in your recovery.
                          Claude
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Sherryl Sagendorf
                          To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                          Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



                          I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg). I'm 5/8" and aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old. I decided to jump-off methadone and took one week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a week!). I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'. That turned into me needing the coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday. The end result is that I went thru a very harsh detox. I voluntarily discharged myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                          I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on the psychoward. This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I got back in my hospital bed. It was sheer misery. I ended up going to the hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from the methadone.
                          The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff. To make matters worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay longer so I would be 'safe'. If I had escaped I would likely have frozen walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by Florida standards.
                          Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use. The half-life last for 3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely out of your system.
                          Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy. My only lucky break so far.
                          But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police via hotline tip. He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a long time. If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or beaten the crap out of me.
                          I had intended to buy three bags.
                          I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                          I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that I'm home now. But I still want to use; its like an aching inside. Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go back to that f@#*king hospital again. Otherwise, I want to be high more than anything in the world.
                          Please help me.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Dann White
                          Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can t work if you won t give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in treatment you
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
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                            Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can't work if
                            you won't give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in
                            treatment you couldn't afford, yet you claim you did just that, and if that
                            wasn't bad enough you followed that with a master stroke of leaving
                            treatment without detox.
                            To set the record straight for others reading this - let me point out that
                            methadone's half-life is just under three days, not three weeks as you say
                            you were told; the real mystery to me is how will you pay for Suboxone which
                            usually costs about 2-3 times as much as methadone?
                            Find your way to a reputable Opiate Treatment Program when you are ready to
                            make a commitment to recovery. It is not required that you know how to
                            recover up front, but it will be necessary to listen to those who do know
                            and make an effort to follow the simple instructions you will be given.
                            Keeping these instructions will not require cocaine or even benzos, but it
                            will require that you try a new response when you need to "feel better".
                            Despite your self sacrificed experience, I suspect that there are more
                            patients at that clinic you mentioned that are doing well, or at least doing
                            better than they were before they entered treatment. Their commitment to
                            treatment included enough willingness to try it with the medication used in
                            the treatment; not adding their personal preferences to the mix.
                            In a way, recovery is easy, all that you have to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY
                            AND LET IT WORK FOR YOU. I hope you do, the only thing worse than dying from
                            your addiction is surviving and living in that hell, indefinitely.

                            Dann

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sherryl Sagendorf
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                            To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                            I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was
                            on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and
                            aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one
                            week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a
                            week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and
                            depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the
                            coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end
                            result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged
                            myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there
                            unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                            I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to
                            escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted
                            and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on
                            the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I
                            got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the
                            hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from
                            the methadone. 
                            The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the
                            butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any
                            relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters
                            worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay
                            longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen
                            walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by
                            Florida standards.
                               Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for
                            3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely
                            out of your system. 
                               Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the
                            hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My
                            only lucky break so far.
                               But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense
                            craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to
                            hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. 
                            This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police
                            via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a
                            long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or
                            beaten the crap out of me.
                               I had intended to buy three bags. 
                               I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all
                            my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have
                            people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                               I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that
                            I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside.
                            Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it
                            stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go
                            back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more
                            than anything in the world.
                               Please help me.




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            ------------------------------------

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                            14:35:00
                          • Sherryl Sagendorf
                            Dear Dan,      I have to say that I was surprised at the hostility you expressed in your letter.  You should attend counseling asap.  Part of being an
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Dan,
                               
                                 I have to say that I was surprised at the hostility you expressed in your letter.  You should attend counseling asap.  Part of being an addict includes making poor decision repeatedly and changing your behavior so that you reach out for help via other people in the program rather than drugs.  Clearly, you are an insipid idiot who belongs chained to a clinic that condescends to treat you everyday.  Stick with your treatment, you need it.
                               
                               
                              Sherryl S.

                              --- On Fri, 1/8/10, Dann White <dwtoo@...> wrote:


                              From: Dann White <dwtoo@...>
                              Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
                              To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 8:17 AM


                               



                              Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can't work if
                              you won't give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in
                              treatment you couldn't afford, yet you claim you did just that, and if that
                              wasn't bad enough you followed that with a master stroke of leaving
                              treatment without detox.
                              To set the record straight for others reading this - let me point out that
                              methadone's half-life is just under three days, not three weeks as you say
                              you were told; the real mystery to me is how will you pay for Suboxone which
                              usually costs about 2-3 times as much as methadone?
                              Find your way to a reputable Opiate Treatment Program when you are ready to
                              make a commitment to recovery. It is not required that you know how to
                              recover up front, but it will be necessary to listen to those who do know
                              and make an effort to follow the simple instructions you will be given.
                              Keeping these instructions will not require cocaine or even benzos, but it
                              will require that you try a new response when you need to "feel better".
                              Despite your self sacrificed experience, I suspect that there are more
                              patients at that clinic you mentioned that are doing well, or at least doing
                              better than they were before they entered treatment. Their commitment to
                              treatment included enough willingness to try it with the medication used in
                              the treatment; not adding their personal preferences to the mix.
                              In a way, recovery is easy, all that you have to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY
                              AND LET IT WORK FOR YOU. I hope you do, the only thing worse than dying from
                              your addiction is surviving and living in that hell, indefinitely.

                              Dann

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                              [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Sherryl Sagendorf
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                              To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                              Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                              I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was
                              on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and
                              aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one
                              week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a
                              week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and
                              depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the
                              coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end
                              result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged
                              myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there
                              unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                              I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to
                              escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted
                              and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on
                              the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I
                              got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the
                              hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from
                              the methadone. 
                              The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the
                              butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any
                              relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters
                              worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay
                              longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen
                              walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by
                              Florida standards.
                                 Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for
                              3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely
                              out of your system. 
                                 Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the
                              hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My
                              only lucky break so far.
                                 But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense
                              craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to
                              hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. 
                              This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police
                              via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a
                              long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or
                              beaten the crap out of me.
                                 I had intended to buy three bags. 
                                 I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all
                              my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have
                              people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                                 I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that
                              I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside.
                              Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it
                              stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go
                              back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more
                              than anything in the world.
                                 Please help me.

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              ------------ --------- --------- ------

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                              No virus found in this incoming message.
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                              14:35:00











                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Sherryl Sagendorf
                              P. S. I m doing better than I ever have on Suboxone under the care of a psychiatrist who is not recomending that I take mushrooms to cure my addiction. 
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                P. S. I'm doing better than I ever have on Suboxone under the care of a psychiatrist who is not recomending that I take mushrooms to "cure" my addiction.  Thanks for listening.  Keep coming back, clearly you need it.  This group is for support not an arrogant condescending putdown.  Clearly you are a bitter old addict who wasted their life hurting others and continue to do so.  Thanks for listening.

                                --- On Fri, 1/8/10, Dann White <dwtoo@...> wrote:


                                From: Dann White <dwtoo@...>
                                Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
                                To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 8:17 AM


                                 



                                Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can't work if
                                you won't give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in
                                treatment you couldn't afford, yet you claim you did just that, and if that
                                wasn't bad enough you followed that with a master stroke of leaving
                                treatment without detox.
                                To set the record straight for others reading this - let me point out that
                                methadone's half-life is just under three days, not three weeks as you say
                                you were told; the real mystery to me is how will you pay for Suboxone which
                                usually costs about 2-3 times as much as methadone?
                                Find your way to a reputable Opiate Treatment Program when you are ready to
                                make a commitment to recovery. It is not required that you know how to
                                recover up front, but it will be necessary to listen to those who do know
                                and make an effort to follow the simple instructions you will be given.
                                Keeping these instructions will not require cocaine or even benzos, but it
                                will require that you try a new response when you need to "feel better".
                                Despite your self sacrificed experience, I suspect that there are more
                                patients at that clinic you mentioned that are doing well, or at least doing
                                better than they were before they entered treatment. Their commitment to
                                treatment included enough willingness to try it with the medication used in
                                the treatment; not adding their personal preferences to the mix.
                                In a way, recovery is easy, all that you have to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY
                                AND LET IT WORK FOR YOU. I hope you do, the only thing worse than dying from
                                your addiction is surviving and living in that hell, indefinitely.

                                Dann

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                                [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Sherryl Sagendorf
                                Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                                To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                                Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                                I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was
                                on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and
                                aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one
                                week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a
                                week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and
                                depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the
                                coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end
                                result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged
                                myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there
                                unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                                I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to
                                escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted
                                and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on
                                the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I
                                got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the
                                hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from
                                the methadone. 
                                The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the
                                butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any
                                relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters
                                worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay
                                longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen
                                walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by
                                Florida standards.
                                   Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for
                                3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely
                                out of your system. 
                                   Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the
                                hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My
                                only lucky break so far.
                                   But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense
                                craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to
                                hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. 
                                This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police
                                via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a
                                long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or
                                beaten the crap out of me.
                                   I had intended to buy three bags. 
                                   I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all
                                my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have
                                people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                                   I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that
                                I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside.
                                Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it
                                stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go
                                back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more
                                than anything in the world.
                                   Please help me.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                ------------ --------- --------- ------

                                Yahoo! Groups Links

                                No virus found in this incoming message.
                                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.129/2606 - Release Date: 01/07/10
                                14:35:00











                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Sherryl Sagendorf
                                Thank you so much for you supportive letter.  I recieved an unsolicited letter from a Dan that was upsetting because it was so condescending and
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thank you so much for you supportive letter.  I recieved an unsolicited letter from a "Dan" that was upsetting because it was so condescending and insensitive.  Its nice to know that there are decent men in recovery who can be supportive without feeling their masculinity is threatened.  His letter definitly made me recall the militant cliques that sometimes occur in the rooms of NA.  People that are so down on themselves and bitter that they try to make everyone around them miserable, too.  That part of NA I do not miss.  I don't want to engage with sick people who 13th step and put others down to make themselves feel better.  They are like dry drunks.
                                   
                                  Anyway,  I MADE IT!!!  And, by the way, my counselor was transferred to another clinic for mishandling my case.  Before he left, I talked to him and he told me that my experience of sticking up for my rights at the clinic is going to change policy and the clinic will be a better place because of it.  I understand that I was using and completely out of control, methadone was my safety net/comfort zone and it failed for me because I felt completely conflicted about being on it.  I was literally sleeping my life away. 
                                   
                                  Today is my first week on Suboxone and for the first time I feel TERRIFFIC!!!  I've done more chores today than I have in three weeks.  I'm relearning how to be responsible/functional again without dosing and walking around in a partial coma.  I lost my methadone fat, got my hair cut and I look and feel just wonderful.  Its like I'm a newborn and I have my whole life ahead of me. 
                                   
                                  I know that I have created alot of chaos in my life but I now feel confident that I can make improvements and meet my goals.  One day at a time.  I believe!
                                   
                                  Glad to be Alive,
                                   
                                   
                                  Sherryl S.

                                  --- On Thu, 1/7/10, claude <hopjr@...> wrote:


                                  From: claude <hopjr@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process
                                  To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 1:13 AM


                                   



                                  Sheryl the half life for methadone is 24 hrs not 3 weeks the problem you incurred was that you went down too fast and then jumped off of 90mgs that is enough to put you into a bad w/d and being on a bad clinic is the biggest problem. methadone works when you are at a place that knows what they are doing and cares for the patients. The proper dose is not determined by weight or size as everyone's system is different, I don't know if you needed 200mg by reading your story but some do need that much and more there are others who may only need 80mg so when one's dose is being adjusted you don't want to go up too fast as it takes your body 5 days to adjust to a dose change and when you taper off in order for a pain free taper it should be no more than 2mg every 2-3 weeks. Methadone is a time commitment and for the medication and counseling and therapy to work one should expect to be on for at least 3 years and most may need to be on for life due to the damage
                                  we do when we abuse opiates it rewires our brain chemistry. If you were on 200mg and you find suboxone to work for you then your body probably didn't need 200mg as the highest dose you can go up to on suboxone is 32mg and that is equivalent to about 60-80mg of methadone. and
                                  if you are getting severe cravings on suboxone you may need an increase but suboxone doesn't stop the cravings as well as methadone. I wish you the best in your recovery.
                                  Claude
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Sherryl Sagendorf
                                  To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                                  I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg). I'm 5/8" and aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old. I decided to jump-off methadone and took one week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a week!). I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'. That turned into me needing the coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday. The end result is that I went thru a very harsh detox. I voluntarily discharged myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                                  I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on the psychoward. This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I got back in my hospital bed. It was sheer misery. I ended up going to the hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from the methadone.
                                  The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff. To make matters worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay longer so I would be 'safe'. If I had escaped I would likely have frozen walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by Florida standards.
                                  Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use. The half-life last for 3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely out of your system.
                                  Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy. My only lucky break so far.
                                  But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police via hotline tip. He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a long time. If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or beaten the crap out of me.
                                  I had intended to buy three bags.
                                  I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                                  I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that I'm home now. But I still want to use; its like an aching inside. Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go back to that f@#*king hospital again. Otherwise, I want to be high more than anything in the world.
                                  Please help me.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • claude
                                  Thank you Vito for sharing your story............ Claude ... From: Vito Georgievski To: dolophinea methadonia
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 8, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Thank you Vito for sharing your story............
                                    Claude
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Vito Georgievski" <vitodov@...>
                                    To: "dolophinea methadonia" <dolophinea_cafe@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:23 AM
                                    Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process





                                    Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega


                                    I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience
                                    with the methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern Europe),country where
                                    doctors,so-called experts made stupid rule that daily dosage of methadone
                                    can't be above 120mg/per day.They have made a rule which is not evidence
                                    based but even so they refuse to give more than 120mg/per day.
                                    I am fighting for the individual dosage for more than 5 years.They decide to
                                    give me 150 mg/per day only for me(out of 500 clients who are on MMT) but
                                    the price what i have had to pay was transferring me from methadone clinic
                                    to psychiatric hospital.
                                    What I want to say:maybe you have lot of things to improve but at least you
                                    are not facing with stupid rules,you have TH doses and human approach with
                                    the staff in clinics.
                                    So as somebody else say methadone is a long term process but divided in
                                    phases.Each phase need some time which is btw again very individual .
                                    If I was you i will not rush with tapering down.One year is very short time
                                    for methadone.Now days here in my country doctors again are giving interwies
                                    where they are introducing bubrenofine/suboxone like a magic drug which will
                                    solve the parents problems(what a stupidity like parents will be on this
                                    medication) without saying what are the bad sides of this drug.
                                    I really want to say that i don't have anything negative to say about this
                                    drug because I have made my choice which is methadone,so everyone have to
                                    have right to chose but all therapeutic approaches like slow release
                                    morphine for example.

                                    Just want to share my expirience with the methadone from other perspective
                                    and I'll be very happy if I can help very little.I am on methadone for more
                                    then 12 years,working,married and very happy.

                                    I am wishing you all happy new year,

                                    Best wishes,

                                    Vito

                                    PS Rokki my dear where are you and what is going on


                                    To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@...
                                    From: hopjr@...
                                    Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
                                    Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




























                                    The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if
                                    one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually
                                    suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose
                                    you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to
                                    switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for
                                    everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it
                                    out and research it completely.

                                    Claude

                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                    From: Angela

                                    To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com

                                    Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM

                                    Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



                                    I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2
                                    start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch
                                    over to Suboxone. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would
                                    love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much,
                                    Ange Q.



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                                  • Dann White
                                    I am not quite sure how I came up with the statement that methadone has a half-life of just under three days , I know better and must have made a mistake when
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 12, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I am not quite sure how I came up with the statement that methadone has a
                                      half-life of "just under three days", I know better and must have made a
                                      mistake when editing my comments. As I recall the Merck Manual states a
                                      half-life of 24-38 hours for methadone, other sources are in the same
                                      general vicinity. The rest of what I said was exactly as I meant it.
                                      It is sad that in many cases MMT is not available to everyone who needs it;
                                      sometimes it is only available to those that can afford it. If these clinics
                                      are going to admit patients who are unlikely to be able to sustain the cost
                                      of treatment, they need to be required to give humane detox regimens to the
                                      patients they admit.
                                      Here in North Carolina you can be discharged on the first day that you
                                      cannot pay with NO graduated withdrawal.
                                      What a world, huh?

                                      Dann
                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                                      [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dann White
                                      Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:17 AM
                                      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                                      Your letter is one of the best yet for proving that methadone can't work if
                                      you won't give it a chance. I am sure no one advised you to enroll in
                                      treatment you couldn't afford, yet you claim you did just that, and if that
                                      wasn't bad enough you followed that with a master stroke of leaving
                                      treatment without detox.
                                      To set the record straight for others reading this - let me point out that
                                      methadone's half-life is just under three days, not three weeks as you say
                                      you were told; the real mystery to me is how will you pay for Suboxone which
                                      usually costs about 2-3 times as much as methadone?
                                      Find your way to a reputable Opiate Treatment Program when you are ready to
                                      make a commitment to recovery. It is not required that you know how to
                                      recover up front, but it will be necessary to listen to those who do know
                                      and make an effort to follow the simple instructions you will be given.
                                      Keeping these instructions will not require cocaine or even benzos, but it
                                      will require that you try a new response when you need to "feel better".
                                      Despite your self sacrificed experience, I suspect that there are more
                                      patients at that clinic you mentioned that are doing well, or at least doing
                                      better than they were before they entered treatment. Their commitment to
                                      treatment included enough willingness to try it with the medication used in
                                      the treatment; not adding their personal preferences to the mix.
                                      In a way, recovery is easy, all that you have to do is GET OUT OF THE WAY
                                      AND LET IT WORK FOR YOU. I hope you do, the only thing worse than dying from
                                      your addiction is surviving and living in that hell, indefinitely.

                                      Dann

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                                      [mailto:DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sherryl Sagendorf
                                      Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                                      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                                      I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was
                                      on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg).  I'm 5/8" and
                                      aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old.  I decided to jump-off methadone and took one
                                      week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a
                                      week!).  I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and
                                      depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'.  That turned into me needing the
                                      coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday.  The end
                                      result is that I went thru a very harsh detox.  I voluntarily discharged
                                      myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there
                                      unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                                      I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to
                                      escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted
                                      and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on
                                      the psychoward.  This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I
                                      got back in my hospital bed.  It was sheer misery.  I ended up going to the
                                      hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from
                                      the methadone. 
                                      The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the
                                      butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any
                                      relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff.  To make matters
                                      worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay
                                      longer so I would be 'safe'.  If I had escaped I would likely have frozen
                                      walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by
                                      Florida standards.
                                         Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use.  The half-life last for
                                      3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely
                                      out of your system. 
                                         Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the
                                      hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy.  My
                                      only lucky break so far.
                                         But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense
                                      craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to
                                      hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. 
                                      This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police
                                      via hotline tip.  He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a
                                      long time.  If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or
                                      beaten the crap out of me.
                                         I had intended to buy three bags. 
                                         I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all
                                      my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have
                                      people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                                         I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that
                                      I'm home now.     But I still want to use; its like an aching inside.
                                      Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it
                                      stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go
                                      back to that f@#*king hospital again.  Otherwise, I want to be high more
                                      than anything in the world.
                                         Please help me.




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                                    • Angela Quillen
                                      Thank you soooo much 4 your story. I have decided to delay the w/drawal process for a few months atleast, due to the fact that I transferred clinics from
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thank you soooo much 4 your story. I have decided to delay the w/drawal process for a few months atleast, due to the fact that I transferred clinics from Jacksonville to Daytona Beach.




                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Vito Georgievski <vitodov@...>
                                        To: dolophinea methadonia <dolophinea_cafe@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 9:23:32 AM
                                        Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process




                                        Hi Clude,Ange,Rokki and all,mega


                                        I want to say something what can help or at least to share my experience with the  methadone.I live in Macedonia(South Eastern Europe),country where doctors,so-called experts made stupid rule that daily dosage of methadone can't be above 120mg/per day.They have made  a rule which is not evidence based but even so they refuse to give more than 120mg/per day.
                                        I am fighting for the individual dosage for more than 5 years.They decide to give me 150 mg/per day only for me(out of 500 clients who are on MMT) but the price what i have had to pay was transferring me from methadone clinic to psychiatric hospital.
                                        What I want to say:maybe you have lot of things to improve but at least you are not facing with stupid rules,you have TH doses and human approach with the staff in clinics.
                                        So as somebody else say methadone is a long term process but divided in phases.Each phase need  some time which is btw again very individual .
                                        If I was you i will not rush with tapering down.One year is very short time for methadone.Now days here in my country doctors again are giving interwies where they are introducing bubrenofine/suboxone like a magic drug which will solve the parents problems(what a stupidity like parents will be on this medication) without saying what are the bad sides of this drug.
                                        I really want to say that i don't have anything negative to say about this drug because I have made my choice which is methadone,so everyone have to have right to chose but all therapeutic approaches like slow release morphine for example.

                                        Just want to share my expirience with the methadone from other perspective and I'll be very happy if I can help very little.I am on methadone for more then 12 years,working,married and very happy.

                                        I am wishing you all happy new year,

                                        Best wishes,

                                        Vito

                                        PS Rokki my dear  where are you and what is going on


                                        To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@...
                                        From: hopjr@...
                                        Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:55:28 -0500
                                        Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process






















                                         


                                           
                                             
                                             
                                              The rule of thumb as far as switching from methadone to suboxone is if one needs more than 60mg of methadone to be fully stable then usually suboxone won't suffice. 170 is a long way from 30mg as that is the max dose you should be on the lower the better for the switch. I know most want to switch because of the freedom involved but suboxone does not work for everyone just as methadone isn't for everyone. Wish you the best but plan it out and research it completely.

                                        Claude

                                          ----- Original Message -----

                                          From: Angela

                                          To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com

                                          Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:33 AM

                                          Subject: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process



                                        I am on 170 mgs/day, everyday going on a full year now!!!!I just want 2 start lowering my dose, SLOWLY, so that I can b able 2 successfully switch over to Suboxone.. I am also still waiting 4 Suboxone 2 go generic. I would love 2 hear anyones advice/opinions about all of this. - Thank U Soooo Much, Ange Q.



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                                      • Angela Quillen
                                        Hi Claude! This is Ange here ( the one who started the whole ? about What s The Best Way To Start The W/Drawal Process )!!!! Anyways, I agree w/ alot that
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jan 19, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hi Claude! This is Ange here ( the one who started the whole ? about "What's The Best Way To Start The W/Drawal Process" )!!!! Anyways, I agree w/ alot that you have to say. I think my main issue is FEAR!!!!! Fear alone keeps me from even entertaining the thought of being w/drawn from the methadone, regardless that its medically supervised. Very luckily for me both clinics I've been w/ are very good @ pretty much everything they should be good at.. Or I'm the lucky one. Regardless, fear is my issue. I just this week that just passed transferred from the Jacksonville Metro Treatment Ctr. to the Daytona Beach Metro Treatment Ctr. For privacy reasons, I will not put down my counselors name, but I've addressed this severe FEAR I have, & he is 100% understanding, & will help me every step of the way when I'm ready to start w/drawing. I did make the decision to hold-off for a few months on the w/drawal process because I would like to become much better
                                          acquainted w/ my counselor & I am hoping that while doing this it will help w/ my mental block I'm having about this. If you or anyone else have any words of wisdom re: the fear I'm experiencing, I would love to hear it..    -  Thanx, Ange Q.




                                          ________________________________
                                          From: claude <hopjr@...>
                                          To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 1:13:00 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                                           
                                          Sheryl the half life for methadone is 24 hrs not 3 weeks the problem you incurred was that you went down too fast and then jumped off of 90mgs that is enough to put you into a bad w/d and being on a bad clinic is the biggest problem. methadone works when you are at a place that knows what they are doing and cares for the patients. The proper dose is not determined by weight or size as everyone's system is different, I don't know if you needed 200mg by reading your story but some do need that much and more there are others who may only need 80mg so when one's dose is being adjusted you don't want to go up too fast as it takes your body 5 days to adjust to a dose change and when you taper off in order for a pain free taper it should be no more than 2mg every 2-3 weeks. Methadone is a time commitment and for the medication and counseling and therapy to work one should expect to be on for at least 3 years and most may need to be on for life due to the damage
                                          we do when we abuse opiates it rewires our brain chemistry. If you were on 200mg and you find suboxone to work for you then your body probably didn't need 200mg as the highest dose you can go up to on suboxone is 32mg and that is equivalent to about 60-80mg of methadone. and
                                          if you are getting severe cravings on suboxone you may need an increase but suboxone doesn't stop the cravings as well as methadone. I wish you the best in your recovery.
                                          Claude
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Sherryl Sagendorf
                                          To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@ yahoogroups. com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:03 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [METHADONIA ] The Best Way To Begin The W/Drawal Process

                                          I'm hoping that someone else to learn from my excruciating experience: I was on a walloping huge dose of methadone for 5 years (200mg). I'm 5/8" and aprox. 140lbs, 43 years old. I decided to jump-off methadone and took one week to get down to 90 mgs when I stopped paying the clinic (100 dollars a week!). I was also using cocaine every week because I was unemployed and depressed and 'just wanted to feel better'. That turned into me needing the coke versus just wanting it so I could just function everyday. The end result is that I went thru a very harsh detox. I voluntarily discharged myself from the clinic (New Port Richey, FL PAR SUCKS; do not go there unlless you absolutely have no other options!).
                                          I ended up being admitted to the hospital for several days and tried to escape at night, but the RN caught me and told me that I was now Baker-Acted and the police would find me and bring me back and they would place me on the psychoward. This turned out to be a lie, but it scared me enough that I got back in my hospital bed. It was sheer misery. I ended up going to the hospital twice for severe stomache cramping due to withdrawal syndrome from the methadone.
                                          The other patient in the room with me was recieving demeral shots in the butt which made things even worse for me because I was being given any relief and she was. I hated her and all of the staff. To make matters worse, only one of my three doctors showed up to assess me, so I had to stay longer so I would be 'safe'. If I had escaped I would likely have frozen walking home in my hospital gown because the temperature was freezing by Florida standards.
                                          Methadone is the absolute worst drug you can use. The half-life last for 3 or more weeks, so a doctor cannot give you anything until its completely out of your system.
                                          Now, I've been on Suboxone for several days and was discharged from the hospital only because they did not carry the drug in their pharmacy. My only lucky break so far.
                                          But today, my first day back home, I had my first severly intense craving: I found an extra car key that my femal partner had forgotten to hide from me and my debit card and went to my drug dealers house to score. This is a man called "BAM" who I earlier this month turned into the police via hotline tip. He didn't answer the door although I was banging for a long time. If he had he probably would have given me a hot shot and/or beaten the crap out of me.
                                          I had intended to buy three bags.
                                          I told on myself when I got home. Now my partner and my mother took all my money away and hid all of the car keys. I'm very fortunate that I have people that still care for me after I've basically sold them out.
                                          I'm lucky that I didn't get into a car accident and I'm so grateful that I'm home now. But I still want to use; its like an aching inside. Sometimes its so intense that I have to go out and look for drugs to make it stop. My insincere hope is to stay clean only because I do not want to go back to that f@#*king hospital again. Otherwise, I want to be high more than anything in the world.
                                          Please help me.

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