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Re: [METHADONIA ] Is 90mgs ...

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  • claude
    Jim, What you are referring to is called rapid detox and it is expensive and dangerous. They put you to sleep and then they induce different drugs to make you
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 10, 2005
      Jim,
      What you are referring to is called rapid detox and it is expensive and dangerous. They put you to sleep and then they induce different drugs to make you go through w/d some people have dies during this process and even though they advertise that it works for any opiate longacting opiates such as methadone don't respond as well not that the short acting ones respond all that great. It may have worked for some but I would never recommend it to someone but if it's done properly I don't know maybe it might work. But that is the easy part then you would need a plan for aftercare and counseling and support because that is the hard part staying clean.
      I was on methadone for many years being underdosed and never feeling right but not knowing why as this was many many years ago and as the years went on I developed pain problems due to an accident and diabetes so once my dose was raised for the pain I started to feel normal aside from the pain. It took me at least 150mg before that process happened plus I took the dose split during the day. 90mg is just hitting the mid range and it is not a high dose most people need between 80-120mg before they start to feel right but then there are those that feel ok on 40mg and others may take 200to 300 to over 400mg s and up so there is no one correct dose it is the dose that works for you.
      And in tapering down you must do it slowly more like 1mg a week and if you are not feeling right on the dose you taper down from then what makes you think you are going to feel ok on less. Before tapering sometimes one must go up to a stable dose stay there a while and then start from that point.
      Remember there will be those that will need methadone for life due to their brain chemistry and the problem with that is not the drug it's the system in which the medication is delivered, it's the clinics that don't work not the medication. Some people need to be on prozac for life due to their brain chemistry but they get it from a pharmacy and that's how methadone should work.
      Claude
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: James
      To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:51 PM
      Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] Is 90mgs ...


      Hi Claude,

      How long did it take you before you started to feel
      good and at that time what was your dose?

      I believe what your saying about "... find it
      necessary to remain on methadone for life" but that
      idea scares the hell out of me!

      I too go through unbearable withdrawals though mine
      get worse before they get better. Once I went 4 days
      with-out and I felt I may have been able to go with no
      meth at all because I was taking pheno-barbs to
      counter the withdrawals (i was also drinking rum i
      should add). Boy was I wrong! One night during this
      time my temperature climbed to over 104% !!! my blood
      pressure shot through the roof as well and I had to
      call 911 for help. The bottom line is I ended up
      staying a few nights in the hospital before I was
      released and put back on my 90mg per day meth dose, I
      cant stop taking opiates or meth .

      I get so f'n hot and cold at the same time ....
      shaking and sweating ... OMG I can not begin to
      explain all that occurs to me in words!

      I did try and go down to 60mgs once and I got so cold
      and my heart rate went from 70 beats a minute to
      between 40-48 per min! I kept this up for 4 days
      before I had to go back to my 90mgs a day.

      Claude I may try your suggestion when I get the
      courage and when I do I will let you know what
      happened.

      One last thing, has anyone heard of a withdrawal
      process where they knock ya out for a couple days and
      you go through all your withdrawals in that time so
      when you wake up your ok? Its something like that ,
      anyone?

      Jim
      --- claude <hopjr@...> wrote:

      > There is no trick involved in tapering off of
      > methadone just good medical planning. When coming
      > down you have to do it slowly there is no short cuts
      > however some people have dropped rather quickly and
      > they had success but that is rare.
      > The best plan is to come down 1mg a week I know that
      > sounds like a long,long time but remember we didn't
      > get into our addiction overnight and we won't get
      > out of it overnight either.
      > Also you have to be aware that some people due to
      > the severe damage caused by long-term opiate abuse
      > to their receptor sites and endorphins that they may
      > never get repaired and may find it necessary to
      > remain on methadone for life.
      > This is what methadone does in a patient that's on
      > it for several years it helps the body to repair
      > itself where that one's endorphins starts to
      > reproduce and implant itself in the receptor sites
      > and that is why people get cravings because their
      > receptor sites is craving for endorphins.
      >
      > Claude
      >
      >
      > Patient Advocate
      >
      > claude hopkins cma
      > advocate NJADVOCATES
      > JSAS HC inc
      > 1200 memorial drive
      > Asbury Park, nj
      > claude@... tel:
      >
      > fax:
      > mobile: 732-678-5172
      > 1-530-937-6801
      > 732-740-3541
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Add me to your address book... Want a
      > signature like this?
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: jerome crumlish
      > To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:00 PM
      > Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] Is 90mgs ...
      >
      >
      > I don't know what to tel you. I get locked up or
      > go
      > away to the gulf and I experience pure hell not
      > eating
      > siting in the crapper more than on a chair, not
      > sleeping but tossing and turning and sweating and
      > covering up in chills feeling so weak that I can't
      > walk and feeling the dizziness in the cener of my
      > head
      > that seems to never go away. After a while I start
      > to
      > feel good. I start to eat like a horse and work
      > like
      > an ox but the shits are still nagging me after
      > months.
      > I must be really stupid because I get the first
      > chance
      > and what do I do? I go get high. I always think I
      > will
      > set limits.(YEAH RIGHT) It's a cycle and meth has
      > stopped that. As long as I don't have to go
      > anywhere
      > or get pinched my life is pretty stable. I don't
      > even
      > think of getting high. My problem is that when I
      > am
      > forced to go straight, no matter how good I feel,
      > the
      > dope always nags me like my bitchy old lady. My
      > point
      > is the meth is a blessing in disguize. I pray for
      > the
      > one day before the whole stupid cycle even started
      > and
      > when I don't even need the Meth anymore.
      > Peace,
      > Jerome
      > --- "James C. Creeden"
      > <friendlyfarmer2001@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Rox,
      > >
      > > I take 30mg x 3 a day now and that seems to be
      > > working good , so far!
      > >
      > > I wish I could go down on my dose but I find it
      > so
      > > hard . I tried for
      > > 5 days going down to 60mgs at 20mg x 3 a day and
      > > went through some bad
      > > withdrawls and havent tried since then. Oh not
      > true,
      > > I went to taking
      > > 80mgs a day : 30mg/am - 20mg/1pm - 30mg/4-6pm ,
      > I
      > > had problems with
      > > that after a week so stopped.
      > >
      > > If there is any trick to coming down from meth I
      > > would love to know it.
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Jim
      > > --- In DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com, Roxanne
      > > <bluelady16.1@n...> wrote:
      > > > James C. Creeden wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi again,
      > > > >
      > > > > I have heard many different sories here in
      > the
      > > last 2(?) years and Im
      > > > > just curious , is 90mgs a average dose to
      > take
      > > or is that high or even
      > > > > low?
      > > > >
      > > > > I was put on this by another doc after I
      > became
      > > addicted to oxy's
      > > > > which were prescribed to me for pain . For
      > what
      > > it's worth I was at
      > > > > one time prescribed 80mgs x 8 oxy's per
      > day!!!
      > > > >
      > > > > I always feel better when I take 120 mgs of
      > meth
      > > but in reality I
      > > > > would love to be on '0'mgs!
      > > > >
      > > > > Advice/Help/Opinion,
      > > > > Jim
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > >
      > > > >No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      > > > >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 -
      > > Release Date: 4/7/2005
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Jim,
      > > >
      > > > There are no high dose's,no Low doses only
      > the
      > > right dose for you.
      > > > If you feel you need an increase then you
      > prolly
      > > do. Or you may just
      > > > need to split your dose in order to keep an
      > even
      > > amount of the
      > > > medication in your system at all times. If
      > your
      > > craving you need an
      > > > increase.
      > > >
      > > > Take Care
      > > >
      > > > Rokki
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > Roxanne Baker C.M.A.
      > > > Chapter Coordinator
      > > > NAMA Board
      > > > NAMA-NorCal
      > > > www.methadone.org
      > > > bluelady16.1@n...
      > > > METHADONE *IS* MEDICINE
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      >
      === message truncated ===

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James
      Thanks for the prompt reply Claude and I want to research more about Rapid Tetox and see what kind of results folks are having and of course the price$$$ I
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 10, 2005
        Thanks for the prompt reply Claude and I want to
        research more about 'Rapid Tetox' and see what kind of
        results folks are having and of course the price$$$

        I live in Florida and get my meth from the pharmacy
        just like I get my prozac (yes I need this and
        synthroid as well!)

        Jim
        --- claude <hopjr@...> wrote:

        > Jim,
        > What you are referring to is called rapid
        > detox and it is expensive and dangerous. They put
        > you to sleep and then they induce different drugs to
        > make you go through w/d some people have dies during
        > this process and even though they advertise that it
        > works for any opiate longacting opiates such as
        > methadone don't respond as well not that the short
        > acting ones respond all that great. It may have
        > worked for some but I would never recommend it to
        > someone but if it's done properly I don't know maybe
        > it might work. But that is the easy part then you
        > would need a plan for aftercare and counseling and
        > support because that is the hard part staying clean.
        > I was on methadone for many years being underdosed
        > and never feeling right but not knowing why as this
        > was many many years ago and as the years went on I
        > developed pain problems due to an accident and
        > diabetes so once my dose was raised for the pain I
        > started to feel normal aside from the pain. It took
        > me at least 150mg before that process happened plus
        > I took the dose split during the day. 90mg is just
        > hitting the mid range and it is not a high dose most
        > people need between 80-120mg before they start to
        > feel right but then there are those that feel ok on
        > 40mg and others may take 200to 300 to over 400mg s
        > and up so there is no one correct dose it is the
        > dose that works for you.
        > And in tapering down you must do it slowly more like
        > 1mg a week and if you are not feeling right on the
        > dose you taper down from then what makes you think
        > you are going to feel ok on less. Before tapering
        > sometimes one must go up to a stable dose stay there
        > a while and then start from that point.
        > Remember there will be those that will need
        > methadone for life due to their brain chemistry and
        > the problem with that is not the drug it's the
        > system in which the medication is delivered, it's
        > the clinics that don't work not the medication. Some
        > people need to be on prozac for life due to their
        > brain chemistry but they get it from a pharmacy and
        > that's how methadone should work.
        > Claude
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: James
        > To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:51 PM
        > Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] Is 90mgs ...
        >
        >
        > Hi Claude,
        >
        > How long did it take you before you started to
        > feel
        > good and at that time what was your dose?
        >
        > I believe what your saying about "... find it
        > necessary to remain on methadone for life" but
        > that
        > idea scares the hell out of me!
        >
        > I too go through unbearable withdrawals though
        > mine
        > get worse before they get better. Once I went 4
        > days
        > with-out and I felt I may have been able to go
        > with no
        > meth at all because I was taking pheno-barbs to
        > counter the withdrawals (i was also drinking rum i
        > should add). Boy was I wrong! One night during
        > this
        > time my temperature climbed to over 104% !!! my
        > blood
        > pressure shot through the roof as well and I had
        > to
        > call 911 for help. The bottom line is I ended up
        > staying a few nights in the hospital before I was
        > released and put back on my 90mg per day meth
        > dose, I
        > cant stop taking opiates or meth .
        >
        > I get so f'n hot and cold at the same time ....
        > shaking and sweating ... OMG I can not begin to
        > explain all that occurs to me in words!
        >
        > I did try and go down to 60mgs once and I got so
        > cold
        > and my heart rate went from 70 beats a minute to
        > between 40-48 per min! I kept this up for 4 days
        > before I had to go back to my 90mgs a day.
        >
        > Claude I may try your suggestion when I get the
        > courage and when I do I will let you know what
        > happened.
        >
        > One last thing, has anyone heard of a withdrawal
        > process where they knock ya out for a couple days
        > and
        > you go through all your withdrawals in that time
        > so
        > when you wake up your ok? Its something like that
        > ,
        > anyone?
        >
        > Jim
        > --- claude <hopjr@...> wrote:
        >
        > > There is no trick involved in tapering off of
        > > methadone just good medical planning. When
        > coming
        > > down you have to do it slowly there is no short
        > cuts
        > > however some people have dropped rather quickly
        > and
        > > they had success but that is rare.
        > > The best plan is to come down 1mg a week I know
        > that
        > > sounds like a long,long time but remember we
        > didn't
        > > get into our addiction overnight and we won't
        > get
        > > out of it overnight either.
        > > Also you have to be aware that some people due
        > to
        > > the severe damage caused by long-term opiate
        > abuse
        > > to their receptor sites and endorphins that they
        > may
        > > never get repaired and may find it necessary to
        > > remain on methadone for life.
        > > This is what methadone does in a patient that's
        > on
        > > it for several years it helps the body to repair
        > > itself where that one's endorphins starts to
        > > reproduce and implant itself in the receptor
        > sites
        > > and that is why people get cravings because
        > their
        > > receptor sites is craving for endorphins.
        > >
        > > Claude
        > >
        > >
        > > Patient Advocate
        > >
        > > claude hopkins cma
        > > advocate NJADVOCATES
        > > JSAS HC inc
        > > 1200 memorial drive
        > > Asbury Park, nj
        > > claude@...
        > tel:
        > >
        > > fax:
        > > mobile:
        > 732-678-5172
        > > 1-530-937-6801
        > > 732-740-3541
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Add me to your address book... Want
        > a
        > > signature like this?
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: jerome crumlish
        > > To: DOLOPHINEA_CAFE@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:00 PM
        > > Subject: Re: [METHADONIA ] Is 90mgs ...
        > >
        > >
        > > I don't know what to tel you. I get locked up
        > or
        > > go
        > > away to the gulf and I experience pure hell
        > not
        > > eating
        > > siting in the crapper more than on a chair,
        > not
        > > sleeping but tossing and turning and sweating
        > and
        > > covering up in chills feeling so weak that I
        > can't
        > > walk and feeling the dizziness in the cener of
        > my
        > > head
        > > that seems to never go away. After a while I
        > start
        > > to
        > > feel good. I start to eat like a horse and
        > work
        > > like
        > > an ox but the shits are still nagging me after
        > > months.
        > > I must be really stupid because I get the
        > first
        > > chance
        > > and what do I do? I go get high. I always
        > think
        === message truncated ===


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      • Roxanne
        ... Hey Jim, I wanted to address this issue as it comes up often. We all want that instant fix so we feel better and it happens to your neighbor and your Dr
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 10, 2005
          James wrote:

          >
          >
          > One last thing, has anyone heard of a withdrawal
          > process where they knock ya out for a couple days and
          > you go through all your withdrawals in that time so
          > when you wake up your ok? Its something like that ,
          > anyone?
          >
          > Jim

          Hey Jim,

          I wanted to address this issue as it comes up often. We all want that
          instant fix so we feel better
          and it happens to your neighbor and your Dr and everyone else. No one is
          immune from
          wanting instant gratification..:) What your talking about is Ultra
          Rapid Opiod Detox and
          it could kill you. A Dr has lost his license,but still practices with
          this un-medical,un-ethical
          way to treat someone. Don't do it! What you described in your post is
          exactly how you'll
          feel only amplify that by a thousand fold. You wouldn't believe some of
          the accounts that
          have been told to me by patients who actually survived this procedure.
          Jim,I am a thyroid patient as well so I have to take meds the rest of
          my life as my
          thyroid is pretty much dead and doesn't work. Try to use that type of
          thinking with the
          medication methadone. Once I tried to get off methadone and didn't use
          and did the
          12 step route,now when we 1st kick our thought process is off and we
          have a hard time
          putting words together,even mobility is a problem...this is due to the
          endorphins in our
          body. I couldn't talk 14 month down the road,I couldn't walk I was a
          mess. I went back
          and used and promptly got back on this medication. That was 20 yrs ago
          and I haven't
          shut up since hahah :) Not only has methadone given me back my life I
          am now very
          much involved with Advocacy and am a Certified Methadone Advocate and
          try to educate
          providers,patients,Dr's,Judges Parole Officer's etc that this is not
          exchanging one drug for
          another and it is a medication. It can get frustrating when even
          patients are buying into the stigma
          and the mis-truths about methadone,but they are only repeating what they
          have heard and sometimes
          they hear this from their Counseler!!!! Claude and I work together even
          tho we are on seperate
          coasts.
          If 90 mg's works for you then that is what you should take. The regs
          have changed and
          programs can now give 14 to 30 day takehomes,if you qualify<which I
          think is BS> and if
          the program and State have upgraded their regs so the patients may
          benifit from them. It
          depends on the State. Some are already, and have been, giving the
          extended take home
          schedule to find it really works for the patient and it helps our
          self-esteem not being treated
          like someone who can't make their own decisions. Now when we 1st drove
          up to the program
          we couldn't,But COME ON....2 and 4 yrs down the road. I was in the
          program 18 yrs and still going
          once a week and thought there is something wrong with this picture,and
          so did many other's around
          the US. There was a list Started many many moons ago at Calyx and the
          Powers that be started paying
          attention to what patients had to say. I mean if enough folks say the
          same thing there must be something to it
          right? Anyhow this was the turning point for methadone. Yes,the system
          is still very broken,but it has eased up some
          and patients are educating themselves with regulations and about doses
          and the brain and going in and
          making their cases heard. There are many lists online about methadone
          and I need to say that you should
          always look for referenced data when something is being told to you. Not
          everyone tells what is right.
          So..here are a coupld of sites that I recommend to find out answers and
          get the referenced data on top
          of that www.methadone.org www.atforum.com Just for starters.
          Claude,can you think of any other's??

          Take Care and I hope this has helped

          Rokki :)


          --
          Roxanne Baker C.M.A.
          Chapter Coordinator
          NAMA Board
          NAMA-NorCal
          www.methadone.org
          bluelady16.1@...
          METHADONE *IS* MEDICINE




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James
          Thanks Roxanne, I will look into your refs and will beginn to research more regarding Rapid / Ultra Detox . I guess I just follow folks around some times ,
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 10, 2005
            Thanks Roxanne,

            I will look into your refs and will beginn to research
            more regarding Rapid / Ultra Detox .

            I guess I just follow folks around some times , hope
            ya dont mind...

            Jim
            --- Roxanne <bluelady16.1@...> wrote:
            > James wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > One last thing, has anyone heard of a withdrawal
            > > process where they knock ya out for a couple days
            > and
            > > you go through all your withdrawals in that time
            > so
            > > when you wake up your ok? Its something like that
            > ,
            > > anyone?
            > >
            > > Jim
            >
            > Hey Jim,
            >
            > I wanted to address this issue as it comes up
            > often. We all want that
            > instant fix so we feel better
            > and it happens to your neighbor and your Dr and
            > everyone else. No one is
            > immune from
            > wanting instant gratification..:) What your talking
            > about is Ultra
            > Rapid Opiod Detox and
            > it could kill you. A Dr has lost his license,but
            > still practices with
            > this un-medical,un-ethical
            > way to treat someone. Don't do it! What you
            > described in your post is
            > exactly how you'll
            > feel only amplify that by a thousand fold. You
            > wouldn't believe some of
            > the accounts that
            > have been told to me by patients who actually
            > survived this procedure.
            > Jim,I am a thyroid patient as well so I have to
            > take meds the rest of
            > my life as my
            > thyroid is pretty much dead and doesn't work. Try to
            > use that type of
            > thinking with the
            > medication methadone. Once I tried to get off
            > methadone and didn't use
            > and did the
            > 12 step route,now when we 1st kick our thought
            > process is off and we
            > have a hard time
            > putting words together,even mobility is a
            > problem...this is due to the
            > endorphins in our
            > body. I couldn't talk 14 month down the road,I
            > couldn't walk I was a
            > mess. I went back
            > and used and promptly got back on this medication.
            > That was 20 yrs ago
            > and I haven't
            > shut up since hahah :) Not only has methadone
            > given me back my life I
            > am now very
            > much involved with Advocacy and am a Certified
            > Methadone Advocate and
            > try to educate
            > providers,patients,Dr's,Judges Parole Officer's etc
            > that this is not
            > exchanging one drug for
            > another and it is a medication. It can get
            > frustrating when even
            > patients are buying into the stigma
            > and the mis-truths about methadone,but they are only
            > repeating what they
            > have heard and sometimes
            > they hear this from their Counseler!!!! Claude and I
            > work together even
            > tho we are on seperate
            > coasts.
            > If 90 mg's works for you then that is what you
            > should take. The regs
            > have changed and
            > programs can now give 14 to 30 day takehomes,if you
            > qualify<which I
            > think is BS> and if
            > the program and State have upgraded their regs so
            > the patients may
            > benifit from them. It
            > depends on the State. Some are already, and have
            > been, giving the
            > extended take home
            > schedule to find it really works for the patient and
            > it helps our
            > self-esteem not being treated
            > like someone who can't make their own decisions. Now
            > when we 1st drove
            > up to the program
            > we couldn't,But COME ON....2 and 4 yrs down the
            > road. I was in the
            > program 18 yrs and still going
            > once a week and thought there is something wrong
            > with this picture,and
            > so did many other's around
            > the US. There was a list Started many many moons ago
            > at Calyx and the
            > Powers that be started paying
            > attention to what patients had to say. I mean if
            > enough folks say the
            > same thing there must be something to it
            > right? Anyhow this was the turning point for
            > methadone. Yes,the system
            > is still very broken,but it has eased up some
            > and patients are educating themselves with
            > regulations and about doses
            > and the brain and going in and
            > making their cases heard. There are many lists
            > online about methadone
            > and I need to say that you should
            > always look for referenced data when something is
            > being told to you. Not
            > everyone tells what is right.
            > So..here are a coupld of sites that I recommend to
            > find out answers and
            > get the referenced data on top
            > of that www.methadone.org www.atforum.com
            > Just for starters.
            > Claude,can you think of any other's??
            >
            > Take Care and I hope this has helped
            >
            > Rokki :)
            >
            >
            > --
            > Roxanne Baker C.M.A.
            > Chapter Coordinator
            > NAMA Board
            > NAMA-NorCal
            > www.methadone.org
            > bluelady16.1@...
            > METHADONE *IS* MEDICINE
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >



            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
            http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
          • Rowdy Hakes
            James wrote: Thanks Roxanne, I will look into your refs and will beginn to research more regarding Rapid / Ultra Detox . I guess
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 11, 2005
              James <friendlyfarmer2001@...> wrote:
              Thanks Roxanne,

              I will look into your refs and will beginn to research
              more regarding Rapid / Ultra Detox .

              I guess I just follow folks around some times , hope
              ya dont mind...

              Jim
              --- Roxanne <bluelady16.1@...> wrote:
              > James wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > One last thing, has anyone heard of a withdrawal
              > > process where they knock ya out for a couple days
              > and
              > > you go through all your withdrawals in that time
              > so
              > > when you wake up your ok? Its something like that
              > ,
              > > anyone?
              > >
              > > Jim
              >
              > Hey Jim,
              >
              > I wanted to address this issue as it comes up
              > often. We all want that
              > instant fix so we feel better
              > and it happens to your neighbor and your Dr and
              > everyone else. No one is
              > immune from
              > wanting instant gratification..:) What your talking
              > about is Ultra
              > Rapid Opiod Detox and
              > it could kill you. A Dr has lost his license,but
              > still practices with
              > this un-medical,un-ethical
              > way to treat someone. Don't do it! What you
              > described in your post is
              > exactly how you'll
              > feel only amplify that by a thousand fold. You
              > wouldn't believe some of
              > the accounts that
              > have been told to me by patients who actually
              > survived this procedure.
              > Jim,I am a thyroid patient as well so I have to
              > take meds the rest of
              > my life as my
              > thyroid is pretty much dead and doesn't work. Try to
              > use that type of
              > thinking with the
              > medication methadone. Once I tried to get off
              > methadone and didn't use
              > and did the
              > 12 step route,now when we 1st kick our thought
              > process is off and we
              > have a hard time
              > putting words together,even mobility is a
              > problem...this is due to the
              > endorphins in our
              > body. I couldn't talk 14 month down the road,I
              > couldn't walk I was a
              > mess. I went back
              > and used and promptly got back on this medication.
              > That was 20 yrs ago
              > and I haven't
              > shut up since hahah :) Not only has methadone
              > given me back my life I
              > am now very
              > much involved with Advocacy and am a Certified
              > Methadone Advocate and
              > try to educate
              > providers,patients,Dr's,Judges Parole Officer's etc
              > that this is not
              > exchanging one drug for
              > another and it is a medication. It can get
              > frustrating when even
              > patients are buying into the stigma
              > and the mis-truths about methadone,but they are only
              > repeating what they
              > have heard and sometimes
              > they hear this from their Counseler!!!! Claude and I
              > work together even
              > tho we are on seperate
              > coasts.
              > If 90 mg's works for you then that is what you
              > should take. The regs
              > have changed and
              > programs can now give 14 to 30 day takehomes,if you
              > qualify<which I
              > think is BS> and if
              > the program and State have upgraded their regs so
              > the patients may
              > benifit from them. It
              > depends on the State. Some are already, and have
              > been, giving the
              > extended take home
              > schedule to find it really works for the patient and
              > it helps our
              > self-esteem not being treated
              > like someone who can't make their own decisions. Now
              > when we 1st drove
              > up to the program
              > we couldn't,But COME ON....2 and 4 yrs down the
              > road. I was in the
              > program 18 yrs and still going
              > once a week and thought there is something wrong
              > with this picture,and
              > so did many other's around
              > the US. There was a list Started many many moons ago
              > at Calyx and the
              > Powers that be started paying
              > attention to what patients had to say. I mean if
              > enough folks say the
              > same thing there must be something to it
              > right? Anyhow this was the turning point for
              > methadone. Yes,the system
              > is still very broken,but it has eased up some
              > and patients are educating themselves with
              > regulations and about doses
              > and the brain and going in and
              > making their cases heard. There are many lists
              > online about methadone
              > and I need to say that you should
              > always look for referenced data when something is
              > being told to you. Not
              > everyone tells what is right.
              > So..here are a coupld of sites that I recommend to
              > find out answers and
              > get the referenced data on top
              > of that www.methadone.org www.atforum.com
              > Just for starters.
              > Claude,can you think of any other's??
              >
              > Take Care and I hope this has helped
              >
              > Rokki :)
              >
              >
              > --
              > Roxanne Baker C.M.A.
              > Chapter Coordinator
              > NAMA Board
              > NAMA-NorCal
              > www.methadone.org
              > bluelady16.1@...
              > METHADONE *IS* MEDICINE
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >



              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
              http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/




              ---------------------------------


              Hey All'

              I remember this girl that went through this "Procedure"? at my clinic,"UROD". She wanted off of everything but Xanax?? She was really strange after that, she didn't want to be around anybody, anymore, even her close friends. She didn't want to do anything any anymore. This is when they just came out with it-"UROD" I personally haven't seen her in 7 years, that's about when she had it done. She'll never be the same,her best friend, she won't do the things she used to do with her. I know one thing, I would never,ever use this killer (UROD). Then you have to fight the urges to do dope, It makes no since to me....NO THANKS!!! You all have a great day, and stay out of trouble : ).

              Steven"Rowdy"Hakes








              Southern Arizona NAMA Chapter
              Steven"Rowdy"Hakes (Director)
              rowdy582004@...
              "Together we can make a difference"
              NAMA Main Chapter
              http://www.methadone.org/
              Hepatitis "C" website
              http://www.nahtf.org




              ---------------------------------
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Rowdy Hakes
              James wrote: Thanks Roxanne, I will look into your refs and will beginn to research more regarding Rapid / Ultra Detox . I guess
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 11, 2005
                James <friendlyfarmer2001@...> wrote:
                Thanks Roxanne,

                I will look into your refs and will beginn to research
                more regarding Rapid / Ultra Detox .

                I guess I just follow folks around some times , hope
                ya dont mind...

                Jim
                --- Roxanne <bluelady16.1@...> wrote:
                > James wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > One last thing, has anyone heard of a withdrawal
                > > process where they knock ya out for a couple days
                > and
                > > you go through all your withdrawals in that time
                > so
                > > when you wake up your ok? Its something like that
                > ,
                > > anyone?
                > >
                > > Jim
                >
                > Hey Jim,
                >
                > I wanted to address this issue as it comes up
                > often. We all want that
                > instant fix so we feel better
                > and it happens to your neighbor and your Dr and
                > everyone else. No one is
                > immune from
                > wanting instant gratification..:) What your talking
                > about is Ultra
                > Rapid Opiod Detox and
                > it could kill you. A Dr has lost his license,but
                > still practices with
                > this un-medical,un-ethical
                > way to treat someone. Don't do it! What you
                > described in your post is
                > exactly how you'll
                > feel only amplify that by a thousand fold. You
                > wouldn't believe some of
                > the accounts that
                > have been told to me by patients who actually
                > survived this procedure.
                > Jim,I am a thyroid patient as well so I have to
                > take meds the rest of
                > my life as my
                > thyroid is pretty much dead and doesn't work. Try to
                > use that type of
                > thinking with the
                > medication methadone. Once I tried to get off
                > methadone and didn't use
                > and did the
                > 12 step route,now when we 1st kick our thought
                > process is off and we
                > have a hard time
                > putting words together,even mobility is a
                > problem...this is due to the
                > endorphins in our
                > body. I couldn't talk 14 month down the road,I
                > couldn't walk I was a
                > mess. I went back
                > and used and promptly got back on this medication.
                > That was 20 yrs ago
                > and I haven't
                > shut up since hahah :) Not only has methadone
                > given me back my life I
                > am now very
                > much involved with Advocacy and am a Certified
                > Methadone Advocate and
                > try to educate
                > providers,patients,Dr's,Judges Parole Officer's etc
                > that this is not
                > exchanging one drug for
                > another and it is a medication. It can get
                > frustrating when even
                > patients are buying into the stigma
                > and the mis-truths about methadone,but they are only
                > repeating what they
                > have heard and sometimes
                > they hear this from their Counseler!!!! Claude and I
                > work together even
                > tho we are on seperate
                > coasts.
                > If 90 mg's works for you then that is what you
                > should take. The regs
                > have changed and
                > programs can now give 14 to 30 day takehomes,if you
                > qualify<which I
                > think is BS> and if
                > the program and State have upgraded their regs so
                > the patients may
                > benifit from them. It
                > depends on the State. Some are already, and have
                > been, giving the
                > extended take home
                > schedule to find it really works for the patient and
                > it helps our
                > self-esteem not being treated
                > like someone who can't make their own decisions. Now
                > when we 1st drove
                > up to the program
                > we couldn't,But COME ON....2 and 4 yrs down the
                > road. I was in the
                > program 18 yrs and still going
                > once a week and thought there is something wrong
                > with this picture,and
                > so did many other's around
                > the US. There was a list Started many many moons ago
                > at Calyx and the
                > Powers that be started paying
                > attention to what patients had to say. I mean if
                > enough folks say the
                > same thing there must be something to it
                > right? Anyhow this was the turning point for
                > methadone. Yes,the system
                > is still very broken,but it has eased up some
                > and patients are educating themselves with
                > regulations and about doses
                > and the brain and going in and
                > making their cases heard. There are many lists
                > online about methadone
                > and I need to say that you should
                > always look for referenced data when something is
                > being told to you. Not
                > everyone tells what is right.
                > So..here are a coupld of sites that I recommend to
                > find out answers and
                > get the referenced data on top
                > of that www.methadone.org www.atforum.com
                > Just for starters.
                > Claude,can you think of any other's??
                >
                > Take Care and I hope this has helped
                >
                > Rokki :)
                >
                >
                > --
                > Roxanne Baker C.M.A.
                > Chapter Coordinator
                > NAMA Board
                > NAMA-NorCal
                > www.methadone.org
                > bluelady16.1@...
                > METHADONE *IS* MEDICINE
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >



                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
                http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/




                ---------------------------------


                Hey All'

                I remember this girl that went through this "Procedure"? at my clinic,"UROD". She wanted off of everything but Xanax?? She was really strange after that, she didn't want to be around anybody, anymore, even her close friends. She didn't want to do anything any anymore. This is when they just came out with it-"UROD" I personally haven't seen her in 7 years, that's about when she had it done. She'll never be the same,her best friend, she won't do the things she used to do with her. I know one thing, I would never,ever use this killer (UROD). Then you have to fight the urges to do dope, It makes no since to me....NO THANKS!!! You all have a great day, and stay out of trouble : ).

                Steven"Rowdy"Hakes








                Southern Arizona NAMA Chapter
                Steven"Rowdy"Hakes (Director)
                rowdy582004@...
                "Together we can make a difference"
                NAMA Main Chapter
                http://www.methadone.org/
                Hepatitis "C" website
                http://www.nahtf.org




                ---------------------------------
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephanie Vazquez
                I have also read the experiences of those who went through UROD. The one thing that left a lasting impression on me was the stories of the naltrexone
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 12, 2005
                  I have also read the experiences of those who went through UROD. The
                  one thing that left a lasting impression on me was the stories of the
                  naltrexone implants. The doctors would implant these 6 month
                  naltrexone implants at the same time as the UROD was done. Then these
                  patients would wake up in total withdrawl (not "mild") and these
                  patients would freak out. Keep in mind that these patients were under
                  the false impression (as they were told this by the doctors) that they
                  would be symptom free. The patients would call the doctor who did the
                  UROD and would be told to just give it some time and the symptoms would
                  go away or lessen. So, now these patients are freaking out and the
                  only relief they can hope for, is to "use"......BUT that naltrexone
                  implant is in their body! I have read many a story where these
                  patients have dug out their naltrexone implant.....some dug it out with
                  a razor blade...some with a knife.
                  These stories where the patients are in so much pain, that they feel
                  the only hope of some relief is to dig out an implant from their body,
                  just break my heart! :(

                  Take care,
                  Stephanie Vazquez
                  NYC NAMA
                  ssv55@...

                  On Apr 11, 2005, at 1:25 PM, Rowdy Hakes wrote:

                  > Hey All'
                  >
                  >   I remember this girl that went through this "Procedure"? at my
                  > clinic,"UROD". She wanted off of everything but Xanax?? She was really
                  > strange after that, she didn't want to be around anybody, anymore,
                  > even her close friends. She didn't want to do anything any anymore.
                  > This is when they just came out with it-"UROD" I personally haven't
                  > seen her in 7 years, that's about when she had it done. She'll never
                  > be the same,her best friend, she won't do the things she used to do
                  > with her. I know one thing, I would never,ever use this killer (UROD).
                  > Then you have to fight the urges to do dope, It makes no since to
                  > me....NO THANKS!!! You all have a great day, and stay out of trouble :
                  > ).
                  >
                  > Steven"Rowdy"Hakes
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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