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Re: Introductions are in order:

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  • braceykaren
    Hopefully, this introduction is better late than never. My mother, Dorothy Meyer Edwards and I are descendants of Flemen/Fleming McGuire s daughter Rosa
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 14, 2008
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      Hopefully, this introduction is better late than never. My mother,
      Dorothy Meyer Edwards and I are descendants of Flemen/Fleming
      McGuire's daughter Rosa McGuire Ahrens Meyer, b. 10/9/1876 in
      Gasconade Co., MO. Fleming was born about 1841. The 1850 Federal
      Census of Owen Co., Indiana, shown below, shows Flemen living with
      Ritty McGuire and Lucy McGuire.

      1850 Owen Co., IN Census, Indiana, Owen Co., Harrison
      Lucy McGuire [F HH] age 68 ==> b. ~ 1782 in Virginia
      Ritty McGuire [F ] age 34 ==> b. ~ 1816 in Kentucky
      Wm G. McGuire M age 17==> b. ~ 1833 in Ind a Farmer
      Flemen McGuire M age 8 ==> b. ~ 1842 in Ind.

      Based on the 1850 census, I believe that Flemen is the son of Ritty
      McGuire and the Grandson of Lucy McGuire.

      In 2007, Jan Anglebrant, another descendant of Flemen began working
      on the McGuire family. She found me and the researcher
      extraordinaire, Mary Bittick Gallano. Through Mary we got in touch
      with Terry and became aware that the 1850 Owen Co., IN Lucy McGuire
      [our Flemon's Grandmother] is believed to be Lucy Hensley, the wife
      of John McGuire, Jr , born about 1780.

      So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
      Karen [Karen Edwards Bracey]


      --- In DESC_OF_JOHN_McGUIRE_B1756_IR@yahoogroups.com, "fayrankin12"
      <fayrankin12@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > This site grew from necessity as I made contact with other
      researchers
      > of McGuires in general like Mary Bittick Gallano. Pat Meguire and
      then
      > "cousins' like Jan Anglebrandt: Karen Edwards Bracey and Dot
      Edwards.
      > I felt we needed a common place where we could share information –
      > sometimes files with considerable content- without the hassle of
      > figuring out whether this file or that was too big to attach to an
      > e-mail. I've often likened it to our "refrigerator door" where we
      can
      > display our latest finds. My hope that was it could become
      something
      > more: a source of real information about "our" John McGuire b 1756
      and
      > his descendants and perhaps a magnet to help us find even more
      > cousins. It is my firm belief that somewhere out there is the
      cousin
      > who has not been touched by the genealogy bug yet but has the old
      > McGuire family bible with the answers to all of our questions in it
      > tucked away in their sock drawer.
      >
      > I guess it's working to some extent. Since some of the last
      > "imperfect works" about "our John" have been published, my
      > 4G-Granfather, John, with the help of DNA evidence, has emerged
      from
      > marginal notations to become a full –fledged son of John b 1756.
      > Also, another previously unnamed daughter of John b 1756,
      Lydia ,has
      > been pretty well established from her marriage records.
      >
      > If I haven't lost your attention by now, here's what I propose:
      > introduce yourself to all of us and tell us how you relate to
      John. I
      > think most of you who I've corresponded with know or have a theory
      > you're working on. Please share. That's what the site is for.
      >
      > I'll go first and continue from above. John, Jr., who was not a
      great
      > one for leaving tracks, was born around 1780. We know he married
      Lucy
      > Hensley. DNA evidence shows that Alfred McGuire (1808-1870), my 3-
      G
      > Grandfather, who married Ann Jackson, is a direct descendant of
      John
      > b1756. John, Jr. disappears before 1840 but Lucy's presence in
      Owen
      > Co. IN with a daughter-in-law and two grandsons cements the theory
      > together. Filling the blanks in the theory (ies) with good hard
      facts
      > is what keeps me in the game.
      >
      > I should mention that another very probable son of John and Lucy,
      > Thompson McGuire (1811-1888) also settled in Owen Co., IN and spent
      > his life there. We have members from his daughter Susan Criss
      McGuire.
      >
      > I hope we can all share and become a more interactive group.
      >
      > Terry L.
      >
    • Judith McGuire
      Terry, Pat, Everyone: I m hitting the proverbial brick wall right now with my searches but something else has caught my attention and I wanted to run this by
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 6, 2008
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        Terry, Pat, Everyone:

        I'm hitting the proverbial brick wall right now with my searches but
        something else has caught my attention and I wanted to run this by
        anyone who has already been down this road. I see no sense in
        replicating efforts so let me know if this is futile.

        This site information shows us John McGuire of 1756 was born in
        Ireland. Has anyone looked at passenger lists to try and locate the
        ship he came on/or the date?

        I know from experience with another family line I'm working on that
        Irish information is very difficult to come by -- but that doesn't
        always deter me. Just wondered if this group has any clues on this
        guy that would help in a search on his travel from the mother land?


        Judy McGuire
      • pmeguire@netscape.net
        Judy, No, I ve never checked the passenger lists for John b.1756.? It seems like a long shot, but you never know until you try.? He was definitely born in
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 6, 2008
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          Judy,

          No, I've never checked the passenger lists for John b.1756.  It seems like a long shot, but you never know until you try.  He was definitely born in Ireland per his RW pension application.

          Pat


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Judith McGuire <mcguireoliver@...>
          To: DESC_OF_JOHN_McGUIRE_B1756_IR@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 4:43 pm
          Subject: Re: [DESC_OF_JOHN_McGUIRE_B1756_IR] Question??

          Terry, Pat, Everyone:

          I'm hitting the proverbial brick wall right now with my searches but
          something else has caught my attention and I wanted to run this by
          anyone who has already been down this road. I see no sense in
          replicating efforts so let me know if this is futile.

          This site information shows us John McGuire of 1756 was born in
          Ireland. Has anyone looked at passenger lists to try and locate the
          ship he came on/or the date?

          I know from experience with another family line I'm working on that
          Irish information is very difficult to come by -- but that doesn't
          always deter me. Just wondered if this group has any clues on this
          guy that would help in a search on his travel from the mother land?

          Judy McGuire
        • nanmc10@aol.com
          Judy, Your letter paraphrases one of mine, written nearly 15 years ago. Yesterday in fact, I was again traveling from station to station in Kentucky, via
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 6, 2008
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            Judy,  Your letter paraphrases one of mine, written nearly 15 years ago.  Yesterday in fact, I was again traveling from station to station in Kentucky,  via internet,  looking for anything new.  I was also looking at wives families, namely Gatliff's.  Thank goodness, I did not put a family name behind Nancy on her tombstone.  Here again, I was checking Holder, Holden, Pack, Black, just looking for new information. None appeared.  Thomas McGuire, Shirley and son Michael were captured by the Indians and who were they?  Who was the famous Indian fighter by the name of John McGuire?  Who was Captain John McGuire?  Where is some information concerning John McGuire and his seven sons who were killed at Blue Licks?  Why doesn't Jesse McGuire's name appear on the list of those killed at Blue Licks and the questions go on and on.  We have more questions than answers.
             
            The solution is of course in the DNA. Until you have descendants of all the Kentucky McGuire DNA, we have nothing but speculation.  A concerted effort directed toward McGuire DNA will yield the information we need.  The DNA of one or more sons of James34, will be a big help.  Some strides have been made this past year and more will be made when McGuire DNA is completed.  I have offered to again pay for some testing as I have in the past.  It is worthwhile.  Get busy and pressure relatives.  We need to straighten out the John's.  Bob McGuire 




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          • fayrankin12
            Bob, Judy, Pat & All, Very strange! I had just gone to look at a new person that another McGuire researcher, Ruth Johnson, had added to her Ancestry Tree. I
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 6, 2008
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              Bob, Judy, Pat & All,

              Very strange! I had just gone to look at a new person that another
              McGuire researcher, Ruth Johnson, had added to her Ancestry Tree. I
              followed the McGuire side back to see where his McGuire Line began and
              it was James McGuire who died at Blue Licks. (In her case, I would
              believe this to be true). The interesting thing is that she had a
              reference to an immigration list as a source. The reference comes from
              Ancestry.com

              The next thing I did was to plug John McGuire into the search form. I
              got a John McGuire who arrived in the same year as the above referenced
              James.

              I am posting a copy of the finding (Look for file: John McGuire 1743
              Immigration) but obviously it could not be John b 1756 arriving in 1743.
              If anyone could access the book that is referenced, it would be easier
              to research and we could see what else it tells us about each person
              listed.

              Bob, quick answer to one of your questions. It depends on where a comma
              is placed as to which McGuire-John or James- was the famous Indian
              fighter.

              Answering the question, "Which John was "Captain John McGuire?" was one
              of my principal goals in my last outing to Allen County Public Library
              and I'm not much further along than I was but you will note that the
              person who abstracted the article for publication by the Filson Club,
              names the John McGuire who was one of the first JP's of Clark County
              (see the footnotes), which would seem to be "Colonel" John McGuire who
              married Fanny Calloway. Could have been a "misspeak' by Benj Allen or a
              miswrite by Shane? Or the Editor for the Filson Club could have just
              been blowing smoke? Our (Pat Meguire & my) pet theory was that perhaps
              John b 1756 had attained the rank of "Captain" in the KY militia but in
              the remaining records there is no record of ANY Captain McGuire in any
              KY Militia Group. I have records from the "Cornstalk Militia" that I
              will try to put on the site soon.

              Like Bob says, we have way more questions than answers and the good
              clues and proofs are few and far between. I think the problem with
              getting DNA donors is more a " fear of voodo magic" thing than finances
              but I would probably contribute a bit too to find some absolute answers
              as this point if there are some that would volunteer a sample if it was
              a free ride. This spending hour and hours in the library is fun but I
              could be torn away from it.

              Thanks to all for the input.


              Terry L.

              >
            • pmeguire@netscape.net
              Bob, A few comments... 1)? Thomas McGuire, William McGuire, and Christiana McGuire Gatliff, capured by the British at 1780?Martin s Station, were children of
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 9, 2008
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                Bob,

                A few comments...

                1)  Thomas McGuire, William McGuire, and Christiana McGuire Gatliff, capured by the British at 1780 Martin's Station, were children of the Cornelius McGuire who died 1779 in Botetourt/Greenbrier Co. Va.  This Cornelius was almost certainly a brother of Lt. James McGuire.  Corneliusalso had sons John McGuire, with wife Elizabeth Cottle, who stayed behind in Botetourt/Greenbrier Co. Va, and Cornelius Jr., with wife ____ Doherty, who settled in Greene/Jefferson Co. Tn.  The Cornelius Jr. who settled in Greene/Jefferson Co. Tn had a son named Charles Gatliff McGuire, presumably named after his brother-in-law Charles Gatliff.

                2)  I suspect the phrase "...famous Indian Fighter" was actually referring to Lt. James McGuire, rather than to his son John McGuire.

                3)  Capt. John McGuire remains a mystery, but I suspect he was your ancestor John Mcguire b.1756, as Capt. John McGuire was wounded in 1792 on or near Slate Creek where your John McGuire also settled in 1792.

                4)  The story about a John McGuire with seven sons, all killed at thge Battle of Blue Licks, comes from Collins' book on the history of Kentucky.  Collins did not cite his source(s) for this story.  I have found absolutely no additional evidence to support this story.  I believe his story is untrue.

                5)  I have also found no evidence to support a Jesse McGuire haveing been killed at Blue Licks.

                6)  I have exchanged e-mails with two descendants of John McGuire of early Greenup/Carter Co. Ky who I believe to be the true son of Lt. James McGuire.  One descendant, a female McGuire, has not replied since I mentioned the possibility of DNA testing for one of her male relatives (if she has any).  The other descendant is an adopted son of another female McGuire, who has two McGuire brothers, apparently still living.  I am now waiting to hear if they have any interest in submitting a DNA sample.  I have already extended your offer to pay for the testing to both of the descendants mentioned above.  I'll let you know if I make any additional progress.

                Pat Meguire


                -----Original Message-----
                From: nanmc10@...
                To: DESC_OF_JOHN_McGUIRE_B1756_IR@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, 6 Jul 2008 8:41 pm
                Subject: Re: [DESC_OF_JOHN_McGUIRE_B1756_IR] Question??

                Judy,  Your letter paraphrases one of mine, written nearly 15 years ago.  Yesterday in fact, I was again traveling from station to station in Kentucky,  via internet,  looking for anything new.  I was also looking at wives families, namely Gatliff's.  Thank goodness, I did not put a family name behind Nancy on her tombstone.  Here again, I was checking Holder, Holden, Pack, Black, just looking for new information. None appeared.  Thomas McGuire, Shirley and son Michael were captured by the Indians and who were they?  Who was the famous Indian fighter by the name of John McGuire?  Who was Captain John McGuire?  Where is some information concerning John McGuire and his seven sons who were killed at Blue Licks?  Why doesn't Jesse McGuire's name appear on the list of those killed at Blue Licks and the questions go on and on.  We have more questions than answers.
                 
                The solution is of course in the DNA. Until you have descendants of all the Kentucky McGuire DNA, we have nothing but speculation.  A concerted effort directed toward McGuire DNA will yield the information we need.  The DNA of one or more sons of James34, will be a big help.  Some strides have been made this past year and more will be made when McGuire DNA is completed.  I have offered to again pay for some testing as I have in the past.  It is worthwhile.  Get busy and pressure relatives.  We need to straighten out the John's.  Bob McGuire 




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              • kmcguire10
                I have some of the information you reference regarding the immigration of a John McGuire, 1743. It comes from the book Immigration from Ireland to America,
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 13, 2008
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                  I have some of the information you reference regarding the
                  immigration of a John McGuire, 1743. It comes from the book
                  Immigration from Ireland to America, 1735 – 1743, by McDonnell. Let
                  me apologize up front for my poor record keeping from several years
                  ago research, but here is what I have.

                  Pg 21 – A list of all convict felons and vagabonds who have been
                  ordered for transportation at the general Quarter-sessions of the
                  peace, held for the county of Dublin, for these seven years past.

                  SESSIONS

                  January 1741

                  John McGwire, Hester McGwire, Jane McGwire

                  Pg 86 – April Sessions 1743

                  For transporting of Thomas Murphy, Daniel Wolaghan, Darby Hanlan,
                  John Power, Edward Cawlan, Elizabth Ryan, john McGuire, Hester
                  McGuire, James McGuire and Peter Bath, convicted at said Sessions
                  and at the commission of Oyer and Terminer, there was raised by
                  prestment and paid to the then Sherriff the sum of 45

                  Pg 94 – An account of all money by me received by vitue of any
                  presentments of the grand juries of the county of Dublin for these
                  seven years last past, for transporting any convict felons and
                  vagabond, with the account of such convict felons, and vagabonds, as
                  also an account of what sums of money I have received by virtue of
                  any presentments of the grand juries of the said County during the
                  said time, as High-Sheriff, and for what purpose.

                  April 1742

                  For transporting Daniel Wolaghan, Darby Hanlan, John Power, Edward
                  Cawlan, Elizabth Ryan, john Maguire, Esther Maguire, James Maguire
                  and Peter Bath

                  I am not sure what all this means or who these McGuire's were, but
                  my interpretation is that these McGuire's were being held in the
                  County of Dublin as convicted felons of vagabonds sometime between
                  the years 1734 and 1741. In 1741 they were order for transportation
                  to the Americas and were actually transported in either April of
                  1742 or April of 1743. If I recall some of my old history correctly,
                  this practice of sending some of the unwanted Irish to the Americas
                  was common during the time. What I don't remember is if this was a
                  common practice for sending the Catholic Irish, the Protestant
                  scotch-Irish, or both. Hope this helps..

                  Keith McGuire


                  --- In DESC_OF_JOHN_McGUIRE_B1756_IR@yahoogroups.com, "fayrankin12"
                  <fayrankin12@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Bob, Judy, Pat & All,
                  >
                  > Very strange! I had just gone to look at a new person that another
                  > McGuire researcher, Ruth Johnson, had added to her Ancestry Tree.
                  I
                  > followed the McGuire side back to see where his McGuire Line began
                  and
                  > it was James McGuire who died at Blue Licks. (In her case, I would
                  > believe this to be true). The interesting thing is that she had a
                  > reference to an immigration list as a source. The reference comes
                  from
                  > Ancestry.com
                  >
                  > The next thing I did was to plug John McGuire into the search
                  form. I
                  > got a John McGuire who arrived in the same year as the above
                  referenced
                  > James.
                  >
                  > I am posting a copy of the finding (Look for file: John McGuire
                  1743
                  > Immigration) but obviously it could not be John b 1756 arriving in
                  1743.
                  > If anyone could access the book that is referenced, it would be
                  easier
                  > to research and we could see what else it tells us about each
                  person
                  > listed.
                  >
                  > Bob, quick answer to one of your questions. It depends on where a
                  comma
                  > is placed as to which McGuire-John or James- was the famous Indian
                  > fighter.
                  >
                  > Answering the question, "Which John was "Captain John McGuire?"
                  was one
                  > of my principal goals in my last outing to Allen County Public
                  Library
                  > and I'm not much further along than I was but you will note that
                  the
                  > person who abstracted the article for publication by the Filson
                  Club,
                  > names the John McGuire who was one of the first JP's of Clark
                  County
                  > (see the footnotes), which would seem to be "Colonel" John McGuire
                  who
                  > married Fanny Calloway. Could have been a "misspeak' by Benj
                  Allen or a
                  > miswrite by Shane? Or the Editor for the Filson Club could have
                  just
                  > been blowing smoke? Our (Pat Meguire & my) pet theory was that
                  perhaps
                  > John b 1756 had attained the rank of "Captain" in the KY militia
                  but in
                  > the remaining records there is no record of ANY Captain McGuire in
                  any
                  > KY Militia Group. I have records from the "Cornstalk Militia"
                  that I
                  > will try to put on the site soon.
                  >
                  > Like Bob says, we have way more questions than answers and the good
                  > clues and proofs are few and far between. I think the problem with
                  > getting DNA donors is more a " fear of voodo magic" thing than
                  finances
                  > but I would probably contribute a bit too to find some absolute
                  answers
                  > as this point if there are some that would volunteer a sample if
                  it was
                  > a free ride. This spending hour and hours in the library is fun
                  but I
                  > could be torn away from it.
                  >
                  > Thanks to all for the input.
                  >
                  >
                  > Terry L.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                • Judith McGuire
                  To All ~ This latest entry by Keith McGuire is very interesting. My branch of the McGuire line has been filled with stories that have lasted for generations
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 14, 2008
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                    To All ~

                    This latest entry by Keith McGuire is very interesting. My branch
                    of the McGuire line has been filled with stories that have lasted for
                    generations and of course, they have grown to be quite
                    'embellished'. Clarence McGuire (b. 1878) was often quoted (and it's
                    in print) describing himself as a "son of fighting McGuires of
                    Northern Ireland". He had heard those stories from his father,
                    Thomas Hopkins McGuire (b. 1839) who supposedly had been told by his
                    father, James (b. 1794). Obviously, there's no proof but it's an
                    example of how these tales get passed down. And if you're Irish,
                    there's always that tradition of adding the blarney to make it really
                    good.


                    Judy McGuire
                  • pmeguire@netscape.net
                    Everyone, FYI -?I may soon have a descendant of John McGuire b.c1766 of early 1800s Greenup Co. Ky agreeing to submit a DNA sample.??I believe this John
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 15, 2008
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                      Everyone,

                      FYI - I may soon have a descendant of John McGuire b.c1766 of early 1800s Greenup Co. Ky agreeing to submit a DNA sample.  I believe this John Mcguire b.c1766 was the son of Lt. James McGuire, rather than John b.1756.  I hope to hear from two prospects very soon...

                      Prospect #1 sent me an e-mail this morning stating that "...i am going back to illinois for 10 days or so, and will talk to my brother about the dna testing........i havent seen him in a while, so i am sure to talk to him..........i will get back to you......this issue is not dead to me, ......thank you, kathy mcguire arnstrom."

                      Prospect #2 sent me an e-mail last week stating that "...i will do some calling to my uncles this weekend regarding the dna testing - Tim."  [Tim's mother is Gerogia McGuire Taylor].

                      Pat Meguire


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: fayrankin12 <fayrankin12@...>
                      To: DESC_OF_JOHN_McGUIRE_B1756_IR@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:35 am
                      Subject: [DESC_OF_JOHN_McGUIRE_B1756_IR] Re: Question?? McGuires on Immmigration Lists and other questions

                      Bob, Judy, Pat & All,

                      Very strange! I had just gone to look at a new person that another
                      McGuire researcher, Ruth Johnson, had added to her Ancestry Tree. I
                      followed the McGuire side back to see where his McGuire Line began and
                      it was James McGuire who died at Blue Licks. (In her case, I would
                      believe this to be true). The interesting thing is that she had a
                      reference to an immigration list as a source. The reference comes from
                      Ancestry.com

                      The next thing I did was to plug John McGuire into the search form. I
                      got a John McGuire who arrived in the same year as the above referenced
                      James.

                      I am posting a copy of the finding (Look for file: John McGuire 1743
                      Immigration) but obviously it could not be John b 1756 arriving in 1743.
                      If anyone could access the book that is referenced, it would be easier
                      to research and we could see what else it tells us about each person
                      listed.

                      Bob, quick answer to one of your questions. It depends on where a comma
                      is placed as to which McGuire-John or James- was the famous Indian
                      fighter.

                      Answering the question, "Which John was "Captain John McGuire?" was one
                      of my principal goals in my last outing to Allen County Public Library
                      and I'm not much further along than I was but you will note that the
                      person who abstracted the article for publication by the Filson Club,
                      names the John McGuire who was one of the first JP's of Clark County
                      (see the footnotes), which would seem to be "Colonel" John McGuire who
                      married Fanny Calloway. Could have been a "misspeak' by Benj Allen or a
                      miswrite by Shane? Or the Editor for the Filson Club could have just
                      been blowing smoke? Our (Pat Meguire & my) pet theory was that perhaps
                      John b 1756 had attained the rank of "Captain" in the KY militia but in
                      the remaining records there is no record of ANY Captain McGuire in any
                      KY Militia Group. I have records from the "Cornstalk Militia" that I
                      will try to put on the site soon.

                      Like Bob says, we have way more questions than answers and the good
                      clues and proofs are few and far between. I think the problem with
                      getting DNA donors is more a " fear of voodo magic" thing than finances
                      but I would probably contribute a bit too to find some absolute answers
                      as this point if there are some that would volunteer a sample if it was
                      a free ride. This spending hour and hours in the library is fun but I
                      could be torn away from it.

                      Thanks to all for the input.

                      Terry L.

                      >

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