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Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

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  • Daniel Ross
    I think there was a golden age Spiderman from DC comics He had a gun thats shoot webs too Huh? ... From: Larry Talbot Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 5, 2009
      I think there was a golden age Spiderman from DC comics He had a gun thats shoot webs too Huh?

      --- On Mon, 3/8/09, Larry Talbot <lonchaneyjr@...> wrote:


      From: Larry Talbot <lonchaneyjr@...>
      Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.
      To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Monday, 3 August, 2009, 1:30 AM


       



      Ah, now Batman is trauma personified. He still has nightmares of that tragic night. Without them he is less driven. But this didn't really kick in as a trauma until the late 70s. His parents deaths were always a motivating force, absotively, but the psychology of it took 40+ years to get into the comics. In that respect, Peter Parker with his whole 'woe is me' angst ridden crap came in well ahaead of everybody in DC. But it is still more than a little annoying. The boy actually thrives on his misery. Spidy is self pitying, Bats is self destructive (but is so well trained he keeps avoiding his demise.) Superman is a good guy because he chooses to be. Bats is an anti-hero because he is driven to be. Spidey is a hero because he is guilt-ridden. (Yeesh, get a life already, Parker.)

      Der Wolf

      Ululo Ergo Sum

      http://wulfmann. wordpress. com/

      "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
      H. Beam Piper


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jonathan
      To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:01 AM
      Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

      Yes... But in Batman/Bruce Wayne, Bruce Wayne became a dark warrior of the night due to the violent robbery/murders of his parents Thomas and Martha Wayne at the filthy hands of Joe Chill, a cheap crook...
      Batman/Bruce Wayne was raised in effect by Alfred the Butler and I think, Dr. Leslie Thompkins...
      Bruce would, when he finished his education in Gotham City, would travel the world and study armed and unarmed combat, deductive reasoning and manhunting skills. In short, all the things he would need to become The Dark Knight, Batman.
      A dark and terrible scourge to the criminals and dirtbags of Gotham, and a friend to those who needed his skills...
      Jonathan Michael Reiter
      jmr
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Larry Talbot
      To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:57 PM
      Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

      Well said. I want to add one thing. Nothing in Clark's life, in any version of the character, directly pointed to fis fighting crime. Frankly, he does that as an aside in his busy schedule. Nobody robbed or murdered any of his family. Krypton died of natural causes (originally) , as did the parent(s). Why does he do it? Because he had the benefit of good parents, a good upbringing, a stable childhood, and a good community. He he never developed the powers (well, we would have never heard of him) he might still have become a reporter, or stayed on the farm, or taken some other job having little or nothing to do with law-enforcement, or maybe became a cop. Trauma did not create Superman...a stable home and caring parents did.

      Der Wolf

      Ululo Ergo Sum

      http://wulfmann. wordpress. com/

      "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
      H. Beam Piper

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Richard J.
      To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:42 PM
      Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

      And Ben Parker's death consisted of what, appearances in three or four panels? We didn't grieve for the loss of Ben Parker, we felt and related to the impact this man we didn't know had on the main character. We barely saw May Parker in Amazing Fantasy #15.

      Plus, you're getting your heroes crossed, if we are going to go to original concepts.

      Ben died in the house from a burglar. The movies established him as dying from a carjacking on the sidewalk. Bruce's parents died in the alley way.

      Tho the movie placed Peter at Ben's death, it was always more effective to me that he wasn't around when Ben needed him (which I think the second movie tried to establish) but the inability to have guilt in the original comic book story (that he wasnt off being selfish, he just wasn't there) was better to me.

      Krypton's destruction could have been highly detailed with fleshed out characters and their causes of death, it would all still be unknown to the infant Kal El, until he watched home movies or something.

      He can have no memories of Krypton's destruction, as even if he time traveled, he would possess the knowledge of the planet's demise and would thereby be unable to be shocked and horrified by anything.

      And even if he hadnt had the Kryptonian powers to such an extent, it is more than likely he would have still suspected there was something different about him (portrayed best in my mind in the first episode of the George Reeves' show. I've always enjoyed the greaser Clark Kent)

      And tho it has never (to my knowledge) been shown the effect that being a sole survivor can have on Clark Kent or Superman, such an event can have an impact on a character.

      From survivors of the Titanic to sole survivors of airplane crashes or nautical disasters (I think there was a recent one where a teen ager survived a boat disaster, within the past six months, toward Asia or Africa somewhere?), the incident can be crystallizing to a person.

      The youngest survivor of the Donner party had no recollection of the events, but that hardly means the situation didn't still take place in her life.

      To compare such drama as this in Peter's life would be along the lines of if both May and Ben were killed by the burglar and Peter (aside from not stopping the crook when he should have) would now have to deal with that he too would have been murdered had he been in the house with them (say Peter is still new to the usage of his powers and wouldn't have stopped the crook or the crook took him by surprise to prevent even a seemingly normal teen from overpowering him, this being a young man)

      Peter would have to deal with had he been in the house he could have saved them, or heck, he could have done this with Ben, which I guess to an extent he did with the elevator encounter.

      --- In DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com, "Larry Talbot" <lonchaneyjr@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > In the original concept, Krypton's destruction was pretty much in the abstract. Like telling an adopted child his "real" parents died when he was very young. You feel bad about it, but it isn't as personal as, say, watching them gunned down in an alley. The original Kent's death was sad, yes, but it wasn't tramatic as, well, the alley thing. They died of old age and Clark was old enough to handle it. Face it, Supes didn't have any trauma forming his character until much later (accursed retcons!) The Burne Superman was born after Krypton's destruction, and his human parents were still alive until the recent loss of Jonathan Kent. He didn't even know he was Kryptonian until after he bevame Superman. Unpleasent, yes. Sad, yes. Even traumatic, but Superman has already been on his path for some time, so it isn't connected to how he turned out.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















      __________________________________________________________________________________
      Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local.
      Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au

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    • Larry Talbot
      That was the Tarantula. I think his secret ID was John Law or something inane like that. He worked with the All-Star Squadron. He was occasionally called a
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
        That was the Tarantula. I think his secret ID was John Law or something inane like that. He worked with the All-Star Squadron.

        He was occasionally called a "spider-man" in much the way Spidey could be called "that bug guy."

        Der Wolf

        Ululo Ergo Sum

        http://wulfmann.wordpress.com/

        "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
        H. Beam Piper


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Daniel Ross
        To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:14 PM
        Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.


        I think there was a golden age Spiderman from DC comics He had a gun thats shoot webs too Huh?

        --- On Mon, 3/8/09, Larry Talbot <lonchaneyjr@...> wrote:

        From: Larry Talbot <lonchaneyjr@...>
        Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.
        To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
        Received: Monday, 3 August, 2009, 1:30 AM



        Ah, now Batman is trauma personified. He still has nightmares of that tragic night. Without them he is less driven. But this didn't really kick in as a trauma until the late 70s. His parents deaths were always a motivating force, absotively, but the psychology of it took 40+ years to get into the comics. In that respect, Peter Parker with his whole 'woe is me' angst ridden crap came in well ahaead of everybody in DC. But it is still more than a little annoying. The boy actually thrives on his misery. Spidy is self pitying, Bats is self destructive (but is so well trained he keeps avoiding his demise.) Superman is a good guy because he chooses to be. Bats is an anti-hero because he is driven to be. Spidey is a hero because he is guilt-ridden. (Yeesh, get a life already, Parker.)

        Der Wolf

        Ululo Ergo Sum

        http://wulfmann. wordpress. com/

        "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
        H. Beam Piper

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jonathan
        To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:01 AM
        Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

        Yes... But in Batman/Bruce Wayne, Bruce Wayne became a dark warrior of the night due to the violent robbery/murders of his parents Thomas and Martha Wayne at the filthy hands of Joe Chill, a cheap crook...
        Batman/Bruce Wayne was raised in effect by Alfred the Butler and I think, Dr. Leslie Thompkins...
        Bruce would, when he finished his education in Gotham City, would travel the world and study armed and unarmed combat, deductive reasoning and manhunting skills. In short, all the things he would need to become The Dark Knight, Batman.
        A dark and terrible scourge to the criminals and dirtbags of Gotham, and a friend to those who needed his skills...
        Jonathan Michael Reiter
        jmr
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Larry Talbot
        To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:57 PM
        Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

        Well said. I want to add one thing. Nothing in Clark's life, in any version of the character, directly pointed to fis fighting crime. Frankly, he does that as an aside in his busy schedule. Nobody robbed or murdered any of his family. Krypton died of natural causes (originally) , as did the parent(s). Why does he do it? Because he had the benefit of good parents, a good upbringing, a stable childhood, and a good community. He he never developed the powers (well, we would have never heard of him) he might still have become a reporter, or stayed on the farm, or taken some other job having little or nothing to do with law-enforcement, or maybe became a cop. Trauma did not create Superman...a stable home and caring parents did.

        Der Wolf

        Ululo Ergo Sum

        http://wulfmann. wordpress. com/

        "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
        H. Beam Piper

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Richard J.
        To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
        Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:42 PM
        Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

        And Ben Parker's death consisted of what, appearances in three or four panels? We didn't grieve for the loss of Ben Parker, we felt and related to the impact this man we didn't know had on the main character. We barely saw May Parker in Amazing Fantasy #15.

        Plus, you're getting your heroes crossed, if we are going to go to original concepts.

        Ben died in the house from a burglar. The movies established him as dying from a carjacking on the sidewalk. Bruce's parents died in the alley way.

        Tho the movie placed Peter at Ben's death, it was always more effective to me that he wasn't around when Ben needed him (which I think the second movie tried to establish) but the inability to have guilt in the original comic book story (that he wasnt off being selfish, he just wasn't there) was better to me.

        Krypton's destruction could have been highly detailed with fleshed out characters and their causes of death, it would all still be unknown to the infant Kal El, until he watched home movies or something.

        He can have no memories of Krypton's destruction, as even if he time traveled, he would possess the knowledge of the planet's demise and would thereby be unable to be shocked and horrified by anything.

        And even if he hadnt had the Kryptonian powers to such an extent, it is more than likely he would have still suspected there was something different about him (portrayed best in my mind in the first episode of the George Reeves' show. I've always enjoyed the greaser Clark Kent)

        And tho it has never (to my knowledge) been shown the effect that being a sole survivor can have on Clark Kent or Superman, such an event can have an impact on a character.

        From survivors of the Titanic to sole survivors of airplane crashes or nautical disasters (I think there was a recent one where a teen ager survived a boat disaster, within the past six months, toward Asia or Africa somewhere?), the incident can be crystallizing to a person.

        The youngest survivor of the Donner party had no recollection of the events, but that hardly means the situation didn't still take place in her life.

        To compare such drama as this in Peter's life would be along the lines of if both May and Ben were killed by the burglar and Peter (aside from not stopping the crook when he should have) would now have to deal with that he too would have been murdered had he been in the house with them (say Peter is still new to the usage of his powers and wouldn't have stopped the crook or the crook took him by surprise to prevent even a seemingly normal teen from overpowering him, this being a young man)

        Peter would have to deal with had he been in the house he could have saved them, or heck, he could have done this with Ben, which I guess to an extent he did with the elevator encounter.

        --- In DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com, "Larry Talbot" <lonchaneyjr@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > In the original concept, Krypton's destruction was pretty much in the abstract. Like telling an adopted child his "real" parents died when he was very young. You feel bad about it, but it isn't as personal as, say, watching them gunned down in an alley. The original Kent's death was sad, yes, but it wasn't tramatic as, well, the alley thing. They died of old age and Clark was old enough to handle it. Face it, Supes didn't have any trauma forming his character until much later (accursed retcons!) The Burne Superman was born after Krypton's destruction, and his human parents were still alive until the recent loss of Jonathan Kent. He didn't even know he was Kryptonian until after he bevame Superman. Unpleasent, yes. Sad, yes. Even traumatic, but Superman has already been on his path for some time, so it isn't connected to how he turned out.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        __________________________________________________________
        Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local.
        Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Larry Talbot
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_(DC_Comics) Der Wolf Ululo Ergo Sum http://wulfmann.wordpress.com/ English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_(DC_Comics)


          Der Wolf

          Ululo Ergo Sum

          http://wulfmann.wordpress.com/

          "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
          H. Beam Piper


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Daniel Ross
          To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:14 PM
          Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.


          I think there was a golden age Spiderman from DC comics He had a gun thats shoot webs too Huh?

          --- On Mon, 3/8/09, Larry Talbot <lonchaneyjr@...> wrote:

          From: Larry Talbot <lonchaneyjr@...>
          Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.
          To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
          Received: Monday, 3 August, 2009, 1:30 AM



          Ah, now Batman is trauma personified. He still has nightmares of that tragic night. Without them he is less driven. But this didn't really kick in as a trauma until the late 70s. His parents deaths were always a motivating force, absotively, but the psychology of it took 40+ years to get into the comics. In that respect, Peter Parker with his whole 'woe is me' angst ridden crap came in well ahaead of everybody in DC. But it is still more than a little annoying. The boy actually thrives on his misery. Spidy is self pitying, Bats is self destructive (but is so well trained he keeps avoiding his demise.) Superman is a good guy because he chooses to be. Bats is an anti-hero because he is driven to be. Spidey is a hero because he is guilt-ridden. (Yeesh, get a life already, Parker.)

          Der Wolf

          Ululo Ergo Sum

          http://wulfmann. wordpress. com/

          "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
          H. Beam Piper

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jonathan
          To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:01 AM
          Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

          Yes... But in Batman/Bruce Wayne, Bruce Wayne became a dark warrior of the night due to the violent robbery/murders of his parents Thomas and Martha Wayne at the filthy hands of Joe Chill, a cheap crook...
          Batman/Bruce Wayne was raised in effect by Alfred the Butler and I think, Dr. Leslie Thompkins...
          Bruce would, when he finished his education in Gotham City, would travel the world and study armed and unarmed combat, deductive reasoning and manhunting skills. In short, all the things he would need to become The Dark Knight, Batman.
          A dark and terrible scourge to the criminals and dirtbags of Gotham, and a friend to those who needed his skills...
          Jonathan Michael Reiter
          jmr
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Larry Talbot
          To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:57 PM
          Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

          Well said. I want to add one thing. Nothing in Clark's life, in any version of the character, directly pointed to fis fighting crime. Frankly, he does that as an aside in his busy schedule. Nobody robbed or murdered any of his family. Krypton died of natural causes (originally) , as did the parent(s). Why does he do it? Because he had the benefit of good parents, a good upbringing, a stable childhood, and a good community. He he never developed the powers (well, we would have never heard of him) he might still have become a reporter, or stayed on the farm, or taken some other job having little or nothing to do with law-enforcement, or maybe became a cop. Trauma did not create Superman...a stable home and caring parents did.

          Der Wolf

          Ululo Ergo Sum

          http://wulfmann. wordpress. com/

          "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
          H. Beam Piper

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Richard J.
          To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:42 PM
          Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

          And Ben Parker's death consisted of what, appearances in three or four panels? We didn't grieve for the loss of Ben Parker, we felt and related to the impact this man we didn't know had on the main character. We barely saw May Parker in Amazing Fantasy #15.

          Plus, you're getting your heroes crossed, if we are going to go to original concepts.

          Ben died in the house from a burglar. The movies established him as dying from a carjacking on the sidewalk. Bruce's parents died in the alley way.

          Tho the movie placed Peter at Ben's death, it was always more effective to me that he wasn't around when Ben needed him (which I think the second movie tried to establish) but the inability to have guilt in the original comic book story (that he wasnt off being selfish, he just wasn't there) was better to me.

          Krypton's destruction could have been highly detailed with fleshed out characters and their causes of death, it would all still be unknown to the infant Kal El, until he watched home movies or something.

          He can have no memories of Krypton's destruction, as even if he time traveled, he would possess the knowledge of the planet's demise and would thereby be unable to be shocked and horrified by anything.

          And even if he hadnt had the Kryptonian powers to such an extent, it is more than likely he would have still suspected there was something different about him (portrayed best in my mind in the first episode of the George Reeves' show. I've always enjoyed the greaser Clark Kent)

          And tho it has never (to my knowledge) been shown the effect that being a sole survivor can have on Clark Kent or Superman, such an event can have an impact on a character.

          From survivors of the Titanic to sole survivors of airplane crashes or nautical disasters (I think there was a recent one where a teen ager survived a boat disaster, within the past six months, toward Asia or Africa somewhere?), the incident can be crystallizing to a person.

          The youngest survivor of the Donner party had no recollection of the events, but that hardly means the situation didn't still take place in her life.

          To compare such drama as this in Peter's life would be along the lines of if both May and Ben were killed by the burglar and Peter (aside from not stopping the crook when he should have) would now have to deal with that he too would have been murdered had he been in the house with them (say Peter is still new to the usage of his powers and wouldn't have stopped the crook or the crook took him by surprise to prevent even a seemingly normal teen from overpowering him, this being a young man)

          Peter would have to deal with had he been in the house he could have saved them, or heck, he could have done this with Ben, which I guess to an extent he did with the elevator encounter.

          --- In DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com, "Larry Talbot" <lonchaneyjr@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > In the original concept, Krypton's destruction was pretty much in the abstract. Like telling an adopted child his "real" parents died when he was very young. You feel bad about it, but it isn't as personal as, say, watching them gunned down in an alley. The original Kent's death was sad, yes, but it wasn't tramatic as, well, the alley thing. They died of old age and Clark was old enough to handle it. Face it, Supes didn't have any trauma forming his character until much later (accursed retcons!) The Burne Superman was born after Krypton's destruction, and his human parents were still alive until the recent loss of Jonathan Kent. He didn't even know he was Kryptonian until after he bevame Superman. Unpleasent, yes. Sad, yes. Even traumatic, but Superman has already been on his path for some time, so it isn't connected to how he turned out.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          __________________________________________________________
          Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local.
          Get started: http://local.yahoo.com.au

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Darci
          Daniel, There was a Golden Age Spiderman from Fawcett.  See Whiz Comics #89 (Sept 1947), for the story Webs of Crime. Darci ________________________________
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
            Daniel,
            There was a Golden Age Spiderman from Fawcett.  See Whiz Comics #89 (Sept 1947), for the story "Webs of Crime."
            Darci




            ________________________________
            From: Daniel Ross <standinggreenman@...>
            To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 10:14:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

             
            I think there was a golden age Spiderman from DC comics He had a gun thats shoot webs too Huh?

            --- On Mon, 3/8/09, Larry Talbot <lonchaneyjr@ banyanol. com> wrote:

            From: Larry Talbot <lonchaneyjr@ banyanol. com>
            Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.
            To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
            Received: Monday, 3 August, 2009, 1:30 AM

             

            Ah, now Batman is trauma personified. He still has nightmares of that tragic night. Without them he is less driven. But this didn't really kick in as a trauma until the late 70s. His parents deaths were always a motivating force, absotively, but the psychology of it took 40+ years to get into the comics. In that respect, Peter Parker with his whole 'woe is me' angst ridden crap came in well ahaead of everybody in DC. But it is still more than a little annoying. The boy actually thrives on his misery. Spidy is self pitying, Bats is self destructive (but is so well trained he keeps avoiding his demise.) Superman is a good guy because he chooses to be. Bats is an anti-hero because he is driven to be. Spidey is a hero because he is guilt-ridden. (Yeesh, get a life already, Parker.)

            Der Wolf

            Ululo Ergo Sum

            http://wulfmann. wordpress. com/

            "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
            H. Beam Piper

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jonathan
            To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:01 AM
            Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

            Yes... But in Batman/Bruce Wayne, Bruce Wayne became a dark warrior of the night due to the violent robbery/murders of his parents Thomas and Martha Wayne at the filthy hands of Joe Chill, a cheap crook...
            Batman/Bruce Wayne was raised in effect by Alfred the Butler and I think, Dr. Leslie Thompkins...
            Bruce would, when he finished his education in Gotham City, would travel the world and study armed and unarmed combat, deductive reasoning and manhunting skills. In short, all the things he would need to become The Dark Knight, Batman.
            A dark and terrible scourge to the criminals and dirtbags of Gotham, and a friend to those who needed his skills...
            Jonathan Michael Reiter
            jmr
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Larry Talbot
            To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:57 PM
            Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

            Well said. I want to add one thing. Nothing in Clark's life, in any version of the character, directly pointed to fis fighting crime. Frankly, he does that as an aside in his busy schedule. Nobody robbed or murdered any of his family. Krypton died of natural causes (originally) , as did the parent(s). Why does he do it? Because he had the benefit of good parents, a good upbringing, a stable childhood, and a good community. He he never developed the powers (well, we would have never heard of him) he might still have become a reporter, or stayed on the farm, or taken some other job having little or nothing to do with law-enforcement, or maybe became a cop. Trauma did not create Superman...a stable home and caring parents did.

            Der Wolf

            Ululo Ergo Sum

            http://wulfmann. wordpress. com/

            "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
            H. Beam Piper

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Richard J.
            To: DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:42 PM
            Subject: Re: [DCU] Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

            And Ben Parker's death consisted of what, appearances in three or four panels? We didn't grieve for the loss of Ben Parker, we felt and related to the impact this man we didn't know had on the main character. We barely saw May Parker in Amazing Fantasy #15.

            Plus, you're getting your heroes crossed, if we are going to go to original concepts.

            Ben died in the house from a burglar. The movies established him as dying from a carjacking on the sidewalk. Bruce's parents died in the alley way.

            Tho the movie placed Peter at Ben's death, it was always more effective to me that he wasn't around when Ben needed him (which I think the second movie tried to establish) but the inability to have guilt in the original comic book story (that he wasnt off being selfish, he just wasn't there) was better to me.

            Krypton's destruction could have been highly detailed with fleshed out characters and their causes of death, it would all still be unknown to the infant Kal El, until he watched home movies or something.

            He can have no memories of Krypton's destruction, as even if he time traveled, he would possess the knowledge of the planet's demise and would thereby be unable to be shocked and horrified by anything.

            And even if he hadnt had the Kryptonian powers to such an extent, it is more than likely he would have still suspected there was something different about him (portrayed best in my mind in the first episode of the George Reeves' show. I've always enjoyed the greaser Clark Kent)

            And tho it has never (to my knowledge) been shown the effect that being a sole survivor can have on Clark Kent or Superman, such an event can have an impact on a character.

            From survivors of the Titanic to sole survivors of airplane crashes or nautical disasters (I think there was a recent one where a teen ager survived a boat disaster, within the past six months, toward Asia or Africa somewhere?), the incident can be crystallizing to a person.

            The youngest survivor of the Donner party had no recollection of the events, but that hardly means the situation didn't still take place in her life.

            To compare such drama as this in Peter's life would be along the lines of if both May and Ben were killed by the burglar and Peter (aside from not stopping the crook when he should have) would now have to deal with that he too would have been murdered had he been in the house with them (say Peter is still new to the usage of his powers and wouldn't have stopped the crook or the crook took him by surprise to prevent even a seemingly normal teen from overpowering him, this being a young man)

            Peter would have to deal with had he been in the house he could have saved them, or heck, he could have done this with Ben, which I guess to an extent he did with the elevator encounter.

            --- In DC_Comics_Uncensore d@yahoogroups. com, "Larry Talbot" <lonchaneyjr@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > In the original concept, Krypton's destruction was pretty much in the abstract. Like telling an adopted child his "real" parents died when he was very young. You feel bad about it, but it isn't as personal as, say, watching them gunned down in an alley. The original Kent's death was sad, yes, but it wasn't tramatic as, well, the alley thing. They died of old age and Clark was old enough to handle it. Face it, Supes didn't have any trauma forming his character until much later (accursed retcons!) The Burne Superman was born after Krypton's destruction, and his human parents were still alive until the recent loss of Jonathan Kent. He didn't even know he was Kryptonian until after he bevame Superman. Unpleasent, yes. Sad, yes. Even traumatic, but Superman has already been on his path for some time, so it isn't connected to how he turned out.

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          • primitivx
            About 30 years ago I read a Spider-man book, in a smaller book format instead of tabloid. Spider-man was in his 50s, wore no mask, and had a costume a lot like
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
              About 30 years ago I read a Spider-man book, in a smaller book format instead of tabloid. Spider-man was in his 50s, wore no mask, and had a costume a lot like the one the Punisher has. Spider-man also used guns to shoot his webs.

              He was a more cynical character, and I think killing wasn't a problem for him anymore. Anybody ever read that book? It wasn't published by Marvel.
            • Jonathan
              How about by Atlas? Jonathan Michael Reiter jmr ... From: primitivx To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:31 AM Subject:
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
                How about by Atlas?
                Jonathan Michael Reiter
                jmr
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: primitivx
                To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:31 AM
                Subject: [DCU] Re: Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.


                About 30 years ago I read a Spider-man book, in a smaller book format instead of tabloid. Spider-man was in his 50s, wore no mask, and had a costume a lot like the one the Punisher has. Spider-man also used guns to shoot his webs.

                He was a more cynical character, and I think killing wasn't a problem for him anymore. Anybody ever read that book? It wasn't published by Marvel.






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Larry Talbot
                If it wasn t printed by Marvel or Curtis, then it would be either an underground comic, or something altogether different. It sounds more like the Tarantula,
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
                  If it wasn't printed by Marvel or Curtis, then it would be either an underground comic, or something altogether different. It sounds more like the Tarantula, who also had web-guns. I am guessing it was not Peter Parker in any case. Lessee...late 70s...I was in the army off in Germany, so I would never havs seen it. But the age and equipment really sounds like the Tarantula. Now, there have been a few of those as well. The Golden Age one, likely printed by Fawcett and absorbed by DC (like Captain Marvel, Ibis, Bulletman and others.) The second one was a 2-bit villain for Spiderman, 1st appearing in Spectacular Spider-man #1. An acrobat with poisoned points on his boots (yeah, seriously lame.) Then you have the Tarantula from Atlas Comics who was a villain that occasionally took out other villains. He was the result of a family curse ala the Wolfman. It lived on human flesh. Cheesy to say the least. Not the Atlas that pre-dated Marvel, but a short-lived company in the mid-70s.

                  Der Wolf

                  Ululo Ergo Sum

                  http://wulfmann.wordpress.com/

                  "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
                  H. Beam Piper


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: primitivx
                  To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:31 PM
                  Subject: [DCU] Re: Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.


                  About 30 years ago I read a Spider-man book, in a smaller book format instead of tabloid. Spider-man was in his 50s, wore no mask, and had a costume a lot like the one the Punisher has. Spider-man also used guns to shoot his webs.

                  He was a more cynical character, and I think killing wasn't a problem for him anymore. Anybody ever read that book? It wasn't published by Marvel.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Larry Talbot
                  I have all the Atlas Comics (70s company) except for Gothic Romance. Der Wolf Ululo Ergo Sum http://wulfmann.wordpress.com/ English is the result of Norman
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
                    I have all the Atlas Comics (70s company) except for Gothic Romance.

                    Der Wolf

                    Ululo Ergo Sum

                    http://wulfmann.wordpress.com/

                    "English is the result of Norman Men-at-Arms making dates with Saxon Barmaids."
                    H. Beam Piper


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Jonathan
                    To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:36 PM
                    Subject: Re: [DCU] Re: Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.


                    How about by Atlas?
                    Jonathan Michael Reiter
                    jmr
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: primitivx
                    To: DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:31 AM
                    Subject: [DCU] Re: Spiderman is simply the best! Nothing can compare.

                    About 30 years ago I read a Spider-man book, in a smaller book format instead of tabloid. Spider-man was in his 50s, wore no mask, and had a costume a lot like the one the Punisher has. Spider-man also used guns to shoot his webs.

                    He was a more cynical character, and I think killing wasn't a problem for him anymore. Anybody ever read that book? It wasn't published by Marvel.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • primitivx
                    ... Yes it was definitively Peter Parker. It could even have been titled Peter Parker, the Spider-man. Or something like that. I lost that book a long time ago
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 6, 2009
                      --- In DC_Comics_Uncensored@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Talbot" <lonchaneyjr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > If it wasn't printed by Marvel or Curtis, then it would be either an underground comic, or something altogether different. It sounds more like the Tarantula, who also had web-guns. I am guessing it was not Peter Parker in any case.

                      Yes it was definitively Peter Parker. It could even have been titled Peter Parker, the Spider-man. Or something like that. I lost that book a long time ago and I have been trying to find another copy ever since.
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