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Re: [DBA] Re: Later Polish (was Later Hungarian)

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  • Douglas Weber
    Essex War Wagons are under Renaissance Equipment in their Catalog. Code is RXE 11 for Eastern European Medieval or Renaissance 4 horse Protected Wagons. The
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 4, 2001
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      Essex War Wagons are under Renaissance Equipment in their Catalog. Code is
      RXE 11 for Eastern European Medieval or Renaissance 4 horse Protected
      Wagons. The price is salty in the US, $11.99 for the Wagon and horses and
      another $3.69 for the crew. I caught the tail end of this string so I am
      sorry if that wasn't information you were looking for.

      Doug.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Rhys Batchelor <rhys.batchelor@...>
      To: <DBA@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 7:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [DBA] Re: Later Polish (was Later Hungarian)


      > At 11:50 PM 11/5/01 +0000, you wrote:
      > >Hi Konstantine,
      > >
      > > Thanks. I wonder where they have hidden them in their catalog? I
      > >can't find a listing for them anywhere. Guess I can just ask
      > >Wargames to send one as you did, and hope they get it right. I'm sure
      > >they'd prefer a stock number, though :-)
      >
      > sorry, had a quick look and they are not under wagons either.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Rhys
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Douglas Weber
      Have you tried Falcon Figures or Falcon Miniatures (I am not sure of the exact name). I believe their War Wagons are $7.99 or $8.99 which includes Wagon,
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 4, 2001
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        Have you tried Falcon Figures or Falcon Miniatures (I am not sure of the
        exact name). I believe their War Wagons are $7.99 or $8.99 which includes
        Wagon, Horses and figures. Quartermaster sells them in North America. Not
        quite the quality of Essex but half the price of the Essex War Wagons.

        Doug.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: William Scarvie <wscarvie@...>
        To: <DBA@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 7:43 PM
        Subject: Re: [DBA] Re: Later Polish (was Later Hungarian)


        > Hi Doug,
        >
        > That was, indeed, the information I was looking. Except for the
        > price...that's too high. Please try again. :-)
        >
        > Wow. Now I _really_ need to find the Irregular war wagon in their
        > catalog. Otherwise that one element will cost me more than I paid for the
        > rest of the army (I got a great trade).
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Will Scarvie
        >
        > >From: "Douglas Weber" <dmwebb@...>
        > >Reply-To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: <DBA@yahoogroups.com>
        > >Subject: Re: [DBA] Re: Later Polish (was Later Hungarian)
        > >Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:55:34 -0500
        > >
        > >Essex War Wagons are under Renaissance Equipment in their Catalog. Code
        is
        > >RXE 11 for Eastern European Medieval or Renaissance 4 horse Protected
        > >Wagons. The price is salty in the US, $11.99 for the Wagon and horses and
        > >another $3.69 for the crew. I caught the tail end of this string so I am
        > >sorry if that wasn't information you were looking for.
        > >
        > >Doug.
        >
        >
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      • Rhys Batchelor
        ... in the DBM list these guys are described as axe men and are only 3 to a base, which is an interesting difference. lightly armoured guys carrying axes
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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          > So, any help as to what these units should look like? I assume the
          >4Bd is dismounted knights?

          in the DBM list these guys are described as axe men and are only 3 to a
          base, which is an interesting difference. lightly armoured guys carrying
          axes Polish Knights never dismount.

          How about the LH? Mounted crossbowmen,
          >perhaps? Horse archers?

          Horse archers

          And, the list forwarded to me lists the
          >foot elements as 8Cb rather than 8Bw. I assume these two units are
          >treated the same, and the Cb notation just means I should use
          >crossbowmen (behind the front rank of spear...thanks for that
          >John!)?

          DBA and DBM don't distinguish between types of Bw. the polish infantry were
          recorded as a rank of spearmen with 8-10 ranks of crossbowmen behind. far
          easier to simulate in 6mm hint hint.

          How about that War Wagon? Is this a true "hussite" war
          >wagon, or something even more exotic with similar properties?

          the polish warwagons were copied from the hussite ones, so they would look
          the same I think.

          > OK, one more question: how do you typically distinguish Kn elements
          >from Cv elements in medieval armies? Barding perhaps? Heavier
          >armor? More pennants? Any suggestions?

          Knights should be fully armoured, while cav tend to carry spears rather
          than lances, and little armour
          For my Medieval cavalry I've used figures from the eastern europe range
          that look quite good.

          Cheers,
          Rhys
        • wscarvie@hotmail.com
          Hello Rhys, ... I think I made a typo...the DBA list calls for 3Bd as well. Thanks! Thanks for the rest of the clarifications as well. Anyone know whether
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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            Hello Rhys,

            > > I assume the 4Bd is dismounted knights?
            >
            > In the DBM list these guys are described as axe men and are only
            > 3 to a base, which is an interesting difference. lightly armoured
            > guys carrying axes. Polish Knights never dismount.

            I think I made a typo...the DBA list calls for 3Bd as well. Thanks!

            Thanks for the rest of the clarifications as well. Anyone know
            whether Essex makes a War Wagon in 15mm? I can't find one in their
            on-line catalog, but I may not be looking in the right place.

            And, sorry Rhys. 15mm it is. I already have too much invested in
            other 15mm armies to jump ship now :-)

            Cheers,

            Will Scarvie
          • Rhys Batchelor
            ... I think its in the equipment section with the wagons. I ve made some of them for a friend and from the pictures and drawings of the real thing that I ve
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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              >Thanks for the rest of the clarifications as well. Anyone know
              >whether Essex makes a War Wagon in 15mm? I can't find one in their
              >on-line catalog, but I may not be looking in the right place.

              I think its in the equipment section with the wagons. I've made some of
              them for a friend and from the pictures and drawings of the real thing that
              I've seen, the essex ones are not that accurate. the TTG and irregular
              warwagons are much better in that regard.

              >And, sorry Rhys. 15mm it is. I already have too much invested in
              >other 15mm armies to jump ship now :-)

              Well, I would class myself in the same boat except that I don't enjoy
              painting 15mm anymore for some odd reason. either that or I find 6mm armies
              far more impresive to look at on the table top.

              Cheers,
              Rhys
            • wscarvie@hotmail.com
              Hi Konstantine, Thanks. I wonder where they have hidden them in their catalog? I can t find a listing for them anywhere. Guess I can just ask Wargames to
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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                Hi Konstantine,

                Thanks. I wonder where they have hidden them in their catalog? I
                can't find a listing for them anywhere. Guess I can just ask
                Wargames to send one as you did, and hope they get it right. I'm sure
                they'd prefer a stock number, though :-)

                Cheers,

                Will Scarvie
              • wscarvie@hotmail.com
                Hi again Rhys, ... Not in their on-line catalog, anyway. All the WAG codes are civilian baggage wagons.. ... I must just be having a bad day...I checked the
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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                  Hi again Rhys,

                  > I think its in the equipment section with the wagons.

                  Not in their on-line catalog, anyway. All the WAG codes are civilian
                  baggage wagons..

                  >I've made some of them for a friend and from the pictures and
                  >drawings of the real thing that I've seen, the essex ones are
                  >not that accurate. the TTG and irregular warwagons are much
                  >better in that regard.

                  I must just be having a bad day...I checked the Irregular 15mm
                  catalog on-line and can't find the war wagons there either. Lots of
                  Poles, Russians, Lithuanians and Hussites, but no war wagons.

                  Anyone know where to find TTG figures on-line? Do they have an on-
                  line catalog?

                  Thanks everyone for their help in this project,

                  Will
                • Rhys Batchelor
                  ... sorry, had a quick look and they are not under wagons either. Cheers, Rhys
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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                    At 11:50 PM 11/5/01 +0000, you wrote:
                    >Hi Konstantine,
                    >
                    > Thanks. I wonder where they have hidden them in their catalog? I
                    >can't find a listing for them anywhere. Guess I can just ask
                    >Wargames to send one as you did, and hope they get it right. I'm sure
                    >they'd prefer a stock number, though :-)

                    sorry, had a quick look and they are not under wagons either.

                    Cheers,
                    Rhys
                  • William Scarvie
                    Hi Doug, That was, indeed, the information I was looking. Except for the price...that s too high. Please try again. :-) Wow. Now I _really_ need to find
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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                      Hi Doug,

                      That was, indeed, the information I was looking. Except for the
                      price...that's too high. Please try again. :-)

                      Wow. Now I _really_ need to find the Irregular war wagon in their
                      catalog. Otherwise that one element will cost me more than I paid for the
                      rest of the army (I got a great trade).

                      Thanks,

                      Will Scarvie

                      >From: "Douglas Weber" <dmwebb@...>
                      >Reply-To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: <DBA@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: Re: [DBA] Re: Later Polish (was Later Hungarian)
                      >Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:55:34 -0500
                      >
                      >Essex War Wagons are under Renaissance Equipment in their Catalog. Code is
                      >RXE 11 for Eastern European Medieval or Renaissance 4 horse Protected
                      >Wagons. The price is salty in the US, $11.99 for the Wagon and horses and
                      >another $3.69 for the crew. I caught the tail end of this string so I am
                      >sorry if that wasn't information you were looking for.
                      >
                      >Doug.


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                    • Rhys Batchelor
                      ... http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/miscellania/Irregular.html has some photo s of the finished article as well. I think the horses are separate, and if you
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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                        > Wow. Now I _really_ need to find the Irregular war wagon in their
                        >catalog. Otherwise that one element will cost me more than I paid for the
                        >rest of the army (I got a great trade).

                        http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/miscellania/Irregular.html

                        has some photo's of the finished article as well. I think the horses are
                        separate, and if you want it for DBA you don't have to buy them as they
                        won't fit on the base anyway.

                        Cheers,
                        Rhys
                      • konstantine trtiambelas
                        Essex do make WWg, I asked the folks at Wargames Inc. to send me some when I was putting together my Pechenegs. Unfortunately I do not have the serial # but
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 5, 2001
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                          Essex do make WWg, I asked the folks at Wargames Inc. to send me some when I was putting together my Pechenegs. Unfortunately I do not have the serial # but the phone # is (304) 547000.




                          >From: wscarvie@...
                          >Reply-To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: [DBA] Re: Later Polish (was Later Hungarian)
                          >Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 23:10:41 -0000
                          >
                          >Hello Rhys,
                          >
                          > > > I assume the 4Bd is dismounted knights?
                          > >
                          > > In the DBM list these guys are described as axe men and are only
                          > > 3 to a base, which is an interesting difference. lightly armoured
                          > > guys carrying axes. Polish Knights never dismount.
                          >
                          >I think I made a typo...the DBA list calls for 3Bd as well. Thanks!
                          >
                          >Thanks for the rest of the clarifications as well. Anyone know
                          >whether Essex makes a War Wagon in 15mm? I can't find one in their
                          >on-line catalog, but I may not be looking in the right place.
                          >
                          >And, sorry Rhys. 15mm it is. I already have too much invested in
                          >other 15mm armies to jump ship now :-)
                          >
                          >Cheers,
                          >
                          >Will Scarvie
                          >


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                        • John Hills
                          Hi Irregular DO make a warwagon - I have 2 at home, but it is not in their online catalogue. I ll post the code tomorrow if no-one beats me to it. John ...
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 6, 2001
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                            Hi

                            Irregular DO make a warwagon - I have 2 at home, but it is not in their
                            online catalogue. I'll post the code tomorrow if no-one beats me to it.

                            John

                            ----------------------
                            John Hills
                            j.r.hills@...
                            http://freespace.virgin.net/johnr.hills/default.html

                            "Too many humans spend a lot of time in the middle of wars
                            that happened centuries ago", Terry Pratchett
                          • BOB
                            Not sure what you mean about fitting on the base. The War Wagon base is 40mm wide and 80mm deep, how can the whole set not fit??? Bob beattie@umich.edu --On
                            Message 13 of 24 , Nov 6, 2001
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                              Not sure what you mean about fitting on the base. The War Wagon base is
                              40mm wide and 80mm deep, how can the whole set not fit???
                              Bob
                              beattie@...

                              --On Tuesday, November 6, 2001 2:00 PM +1300 Rhys Batchelor
                              <rhys.batchelor@...> wrote:

                              >
                              >>
                              >
                              > http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/miscellania/Irregular.html
                              >
                              > has some photo's of the finished article as well. I think the horses are
                              > separate, and if you want it for DBA you don't have to buy them as they
                              > won't fit on the base anyway.
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > Rhys
                              >
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                              Bob
                              beattie@...
                            • John Hills
                              ... No, I moved house and never got it going again. Too much going on. Shame, we were about to have the mother of all battles... ... With 2 Hordes I think
                              Message 14 of 24 , Nov 6, 2001
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                                On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:26:26 -0000 wscarvie@... wrote:

                                > Hi John,
                                >
                                > Thanks for the feedback...nice to hear from your again too. Did
                                > that FR! campaign ever finish up? :-)

                                No, I moved house and never got it going again. Too much going on.
                                Shame, we were about to have the mother of all battles...

                                > Teutonics, eh? Ghosts of WRG 7th past...I remember these guys
                                > having a reputation as a "killer" army in WRG 7th.

                                With 2 Hordes I think they are a long way from that now...

                                > How about the LH? Mounted crossbowmen,
                                > perhaps? Horse archers?

                                I am using Irregular Lithuanians - lovely figs.

                                And, the list forwarded to me lists the
                                > foot elements as 8Cb rather than 8Bw.

                                Yes, 8Cb is the correct term, my sloppiness there.

                                > OK, one more question: how do you typically distinguish Kn elements
                                > from Cv elements in medieval armies? Barding perhaps? Heavier
                                > armor? More pennants? Any suggestions?

                                I am giving my Kn barding and the Cav unarmoured horses. Cav in some
                                other armies at this time are crossbowmen (Germans) or archers (Turks).

                                > I'm amused to learn (assuming the list I was sent is right) that an
                                > army with 4 Kn and 4 Cav units has an aggression factor of 1 :-)

                                Well, with neighbours like the Teutonics and Turks they didn't need to
                                go out to get a fight, they could just stay at home and wait :-)

                                John

                                ----------------------
                                John Hills
                                j.r.hills@...
                                http://freespace.virgin.net/johnr.hills/default.html

                                "Too many humans spend a lot of time in the middle of wars
                                that happened centuries ago", Terry Pratchett
                              • John Hills
                                ... Well, I haven t tried out my Irregular wagons yet, but I don t think they will fit onto an 80mm base without a bit of surgery. At a guess I would say the
                                Message 15 of 24 , Nov 6, 2001
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                                  On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:35:32 -0500 BOB <beattie@...> wrote:

                                  > Not sure what you mean about fitting on the base. The War Wagon base is
                                  > 40mm wide and 80mm deep, how can the whole set not fit???

                                  Well, I haven't tried out my Irregular wagons yet, but I don't think
                                  they will fit onto an 80mm base without a bit of surgery. At a guess I
                                  would say the wagon plus 2 horse team is about 100mm.

                                  John

                                  ----------------------
                                  John Hills
                                  j.r.hills@...
                                  http://freespace.virgin.net/johnr.hills/default.html

                                  "Too many humans spend a lot of time in the middle of wars
                                  that happened centuries ago", Terry Pratchett
                                • David KUIJT
                                  ... I ve put a few together; a wagon and 2-horse team fits fine on 80mm. David Kuijt
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Nov 6, 2001
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                                    On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, John Hills wrote:

                                    > Well, I haven't tried out my Irregular wagons yet, but I don't think
                                    > they will fit onto an 80mm base without a bit of surgery. At a guess I
                                    > would say the wagon plus 2 horse team is about 100mm.

                                    I've put a few together; a wagon and 2-horse team fits fine on 80mm.

                                    David Kuijt
                                  • John Hills
                                    On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:40:48 -0500 (EST) David KUIJT ... Really? That is a relief. I can t get at them to check as they are Christmas presents... John ...
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Nov 6, 2001
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                                      On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:40:48 -0500 (EST) David KUIJT
                                      <kuijt@...> wrote:

                                      > I've put a few together; a wagon and 2-horse team fits fine on 80mm.

                                      Really? That is a relief. I can't get at them to check as they are
                                      Christmas presents...

                                      John

                                      ----------------------
                                      John Hills
                                      j.r.hills@...
                                      http://freespace.virgin.net/johnr.hills/default.html

                                      "Too many humans spend a lot of time in the middle of wars
                                      that happened centuries ago", Terry Pratchett
                                    • Ken Blackley
                                      ... ***** used them quite a bit under WRG 6th and they weren t bad. Just finished a Cyberboard DBM game using them. Their big problem in both DBA and DBM is
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Nov 6, 2001
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                                        On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, John Hills wrote:

                                        > > Thanks for the feedback...nice to hear from your again too. Did
                                        > > that FR! campaign ever finish up? :-)
                                        >
                                        > No, I moved house and never got it going again. Too much going on.
                                        > Shame, we were about to have the mother of all battles...

                                        ***** I suppose my "Tribe of Bert" was the only army to get exterminiated?

                                        > > Teutonics, eh? Ghosts of WRG 7th past...I remember these guys
                                        > > having a reputation as a "killer" army in WRG 7th.

                                        ***** used them quite a bit under WRG 6th and they weren't bad. Just
                                        finished a Cyberboard DBM game using them. Their big problem in both DBA
                                        and DBM is that their knights can't dismount as blades, so they are in
                                        deep do-do against Bow. Fortunatly, in our Cyberboard bout, the rest of
                                        the enemy Byzxantine army folded up before their Bw(x) could gun down my
                                        Kn(S) . . .

                                        > > OK, one more question: how do you typically distinguish Kn elements
                                        > > from Cv elements in medieval armies? Barding perhaps? Heavier
                                        > > armor? More pennants? Any suggestions?

                                        Depends on the Cv in question. For example, the Cv in the teutonic army
                                        represents Knechte, who were a bunch of (useless) mounted crossbows,
                                        wheras the CV in a Crusader army are turcopoles.

                                        > > I'm amused to learn (assuming the list I was sent is right) that an
                                        > > army with 4 Kn and 4 Cav units has an aggression factor of 1 :-)

                                        Aggression factor has nothing to do with battlefield tactics. Instead it
                                        represents how agressive the army was in terms of invading its
                                        neighbours. . .

                                        KB


                                        KEN BLACKLEY email: kblackle@...

                                        Ken Blackley's Medieval Wargames Page:
                                        http://fn2.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~kblackle/
                                      • SJeske
                                        Ken, Are you making it to Fall In this year? If so what will it be, DBA or DBM? ... From: Ken Blackley To: DBA@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Nov 7, 2001
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                                          Ken,
                                           
                                          Are you making it to Fall In this year? If so what will it be, DBA or DBM?
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 11:25 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [DBA] Re: Later Polish (was Later Hungarian)

                                          On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, John Hills wrote:

                                          > >   Thanks for the feedback...nice to hear from your again too.  Did
                                          > > that FR! campaign ever finish up?  :-)
                                          >
                                          > No, I moved house and never got it going again.  Too much going on. 
                                          > Shame, we were about to have the mother of all battles...

                                          ***** I suppose my "Tribe of Bert" was the only army to get exterminiated?

                                          > >   Teutonics, eh?  Ghosts of WRG 7th past...I remember these guys
                                          > > having a reputation as a "killer" army in WRG 7th.

                                          ***** used them quite a bit under WRG 6th and they weren't bad. Just
                                          finished a Cyberboard DBM game using them. Their big problem in both DBA
                                          and DBM is that their knights can't dismount as blades, so they are in
                                          deep do-do against Bow. Fortunatly, in our Cyberboard bout, the rest of
                                          the enemy Byzxantine army folded up before their Bw(x) could gun down my
                                          Kn(S) . . .

                                          > >   OK, one more question: how do you typically distinguish Kn elements
                                          > > from Cv elements in medieval armies?  Barding perhaps?  Heavier
                                          > > armor? More pennants? Any suggestions?

                                          Depends on the Cv in question. For example, the Cv in the teutonic army
                                          represents Knechte, who were a bunch of (useless) mounted crossbows,
                                          wheras the CV in a Crusader army are turcopoles. 

                                          > >   I'm amused to learn (assuming the list I was sent is right) that an
                                          > > army with 4 Kn and 4 Cav units has an aggression factor of 1 :-)

                                          Aggression factor has nothing to do with battlefield tactics. Instead it
                                          represents how agressive the army was in terms of invading its
                                          neighbours. . .

                                          KB


                                          KEN BLACKLEY            email: kblackle@...     

                                                                  Ken Blackley's Medieval Wargames Page:
                                                            http://fn2.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~kblackle/



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                                        • William Scarvie
                                          Hi Ken, ... The good old Berts...I was so sorry to see them depart the campaign so early (and with so much gore) :-) ... I think in the Polish army, the Cv are
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Nov 7, 2001
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                                            Hi Ken,

                                            >***** I suppose my "Tribe of Bert" was the only army to get
                                            >exterminiated?

                                            The good old Berts...I was so sorry to see them depart the campaign so early
                                            (and with so much gore) :-)

                                            > > OK, one more question: how do you typically distinguish Kn elements
                                            > > from Cv elements in medieval armies? Barding perhaps? Heavier
                                            > > armor? More pennants? Any suggestions?
                                            >
                                            >Depends on the Cv in question. For example, the Cv in the teutonic army
                                            >represents Knechte, who were a bunch of (useless) mounted crossbows,
                                            >wheras the CV in a Crusader army are turcopoles.

                                            I think in the Polish army, the Cv are simply lighter-armed men at arms,
                                            right? So unbarded horses, lighter armor, spears instead of lances...that
                                            kind of thing. Sound appropriate?

                                            > > I'm amused to learn (assuming the list I was sent is right) that an
                                            > > army with 4 Kn and 4 Cav units has an aggression factor of 1 :-)
                                            >
                                            >Aggression factor has nothing to do with battlefield tactics. Instead it
                                            >represents how agressive the army was in terms of invading its
                                            >neighbours. . .

                                            Sure, understood. But it will lead to an interesting situation wherein this
                                            fast and heavy-hitting army will also get to pick their terrain most of the
                                            time. :-) Not that there's anything wrong with that. if they were invaded
                                            more often than they invaded, then we're just simulating history a bit.
                                            Wonderful. But it does have game ramifications...

                                            Thanks Ken, and nice to talk to you again,

                                            Will Scarvie

                                            P.S. Visited your site again recently...so THAT's what Steve Schifani looks
                                            like :-)


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