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Re: [DBA] War Wagon rules

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  • Richard Shagrin
    I have an interest in when the side of a warwagon/litter becomes the front based on an occurrence at NAGs a few months ago. A psiloi, 20 mm deep had retired
    Message 1 of 41 , Mar 6, 2006
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      I have an interest in when the side of a warwagon/litter becomes the front based on an occurrence at NAGs a few months ago. A psiloi, 20 mm deep had retired from contact on the side when the attacker died. I had spearman off to the side who could attack the enemy on the flank, so it flipped to face its attacker, and due to geometry, wound up with its flank in side contact with the litter. If the litter were in front contact with the side of the enemy Psiloi, when the Psiloi dies when retreating from the spear, if it is in side contact, while giving the spear a flank help at 4 to 1, the Psiloi merely withdraws or evades, depending on the dice throw. Of if 6 to 1 the wrong way, it could, of course, beat the spear.

      I think I persuaded my opponent that the side in contact was the front, and his Psiloi had died, but he wasn't really happy about it. The Psiloi was not in corner contact with the litter, but the only point the litter was in contact with any enemy was on its side, in contact with the Psiloi after the Psiloi changed facing to fight the spear.

      Did I argue correctly?



      --- On Mon 03/06, Robert Beattie < beattie@... > wrote:
      From: Robert Beattie [mailto: beattie@...]
      To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:17:28 -0500
      Subject: Re: [DBA] War Wagon rules

      <html><body>


      <tt>
      I have NEVER taken verbal statements by Phil as an interpretation.�� <BR>
      The shooting from behind was in an email which I posted to this� <BR>
      group.� Check it out.<BR>
      <BR>
      There is no� exception in the rules for making legal contact on a War� <BR>
      Wagon.� The revision only states that the first side contacted counts� <BR>
      (not "becomes") as the front edge for close combat.� If not, then a� <BR>
      middle contact would be acceptable.<BR>
      <BR>
      I do not understand the point about a single LH?� The rules make an� <BR>
      explicit exception to the normal contact rules for a Ps or LH to be� <BR>
      contacted by an enemy group.� There is no such exception for a War� <BR>
      Wagon!<BR>
      <BR>
      Am I being legalistic by wanting to follow the rules as written, in� <BR>
      the WRG edition?<BR>
      <BR>
      Bob<BR>
      beattie@...<BR>
      <BR>
      <BR>
      <BR>
      <BR>
      On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:46 AM, kuijt@... wrote:<BR>
      <BR>
      <BR>
      <BR>
      On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, Bob Beattie wrote:<BR>
      <BR>
      > Is "legalese" now defined as playing the rules as written?<BR>
      <BR>
      With respect, Bob, that isn't fair.<BR>
      <BR>
      1) Your interpretation (that the side edge "becomes" the front edge� <BR>
      after<BR>
      movement is finished) is just one possible interpretation -- not the� <BR>
      only<BR>
      one.� The interpretation Mike mentions (that the side edge "becomes" the<BR>
      front edge immediately, which makes the contact legal in the same way� <BR>
      that<BR>
      illegal contact by a group with a single LH causes it to conform<BR>
      immediately, making the contact legal after initial impact) is also<BR>
      reasonable.<BR>
      <BR>
      2) Mike says that Phil stated in person, at a Con, to play it that way.<BR>
      You've used the same system (what Phil says at a Con) to change some of<BR>
      your rulings in the past -- the "shooting from behind" rule, most<BR>
      recently.� Why not this time?<BR>
      <BR>
      DK<BR>
      <BR>
      <BR>
      <BR>
      Yahoo! Groups Links<BR>
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      <BR>
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    • TERRY GRINER
      Since a WWg cannot move into edge or corner contact with an enemy element... I think all would agree the WWg is not entitled to move into legal flank
      Message 41 of 41 , Mar 9, 2006
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        Since a WWg "cannot move into edge or corner contact with an enemy
        element..." I think all would agree the WWg is not entitled to move into
        legal flank contact. However, a situation could arise where, through enemy
        recoils or movement, the WWg ends up in a flanking position without moving.
        I think this condition is what the writer was referring to in his post about
        a WWg "closing the door".



        Terry in Spokane


        -----Original Message-----
        From: DBA@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DBA@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip
        Hall
        Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:13 AM
        To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [DBA] Re: War Wagon flanking rules



        Gentlemen,



        I tend to lurk as I am a newcomer to the rules. However, when reading

        the rule



        "Since they could fight all-round, they count the first edge in

        contact as their front edge when in close combat."



        the operative words would seem to be "WHEN IN CLOSE COMBAT"



        I have always interpreted that to mean when them to mean "when the

        unit being attacked". If that is the correct interpretation, then the

        "front" of the war wagon is not determined unless it is the unit being

        attacked. And it isn't. I would consider it an overlap, much the way a

        tower provides overlap of the face of a fortress wall. You are able to

        shoot into the flank of the attacker so would overlap him. A good use

        for a WW, and quite historical.



        I tend to think of WW as small fortresses on the field of battle. As

        such I don't believe they should be allowed to "close the door". Units

        that "close the door" should be mobile, and the manner of use of WW in

        history pretty much precludes them being at all mobile.



        Just my 2 cents.



        Phil





























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