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Re: [DBA] Campaigns

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  • Terry Griner
    I have run campaigns using the DBA Campaign rules at conventions. I made a campaign map on a buff colored 2 x 2 poster board. Spain, Gaul, Rome, Syracuse,
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 3, 2003
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      I have run campaigns using the DBA Campaign rules at conventions. I made
      a campaign map on a buff colored 2' x 2' poster board. Spain, Gaul,
      Rome, Syracuse, Carthage and Numidia surround the Med. with the island of
      Sardinia in the center. I was concerned there might be too much of 4
      players standing around watching two fight a battle, but everyone was
      aggressive and that didn't turn out to be much of a problem. The players
      who were not currently fighting a battle seemed content to watch those
      who were, or wonder around for a half hour and return for the next move.

      I set up this event as a six player "tournament", so do not have many of
      the problems Bob B. brings up in his post about using this format for a
      full fledged tournament. We are able to come to a satisfactory
      conclusion in a five hour time slot.

      Terry

      On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:17:33 -0000 "stenicplus" <stenicplus@...>
      writes:
      In all the DBA tournaments that any of you may have attended did any
      one use the campaign rules rather than straight pairing based upon
      some scoring system and a Swiss-Chess style format ?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dan Hazelwood
      I think campaigns are great fun, but they don t automatically cough up the superior general like a swiss format tournament allegedly does. I think it is
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 3, 2003
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        I think campaigns are great fun, but they don't automatically cough up the
        superior general like a swiss format tournament allegedly does. I think it
        is different and a lot of fun.

        But when the whole world makes war on you, they can grind down most players
        through sheer attrition.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Terry Griner [mailto:TGRINER@...]
        Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:48 AM
        To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: DBA@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [DBA] Campaigns


        I have run campaigns using the DBA Campaign rules at conventions. I made
        a campaign map on a buff colored 2' x 2' poster board. Spain, Gaul,
        Rome, Syracuse, Carthage and Numidia surround the Med. with the island of
        Sardinia in the center. I was concerned there might be too much of 4
        players standing around watching two fight a battle, but everyone was
        aggressive and that didn't turn out to be much of a problem. The players
        who were not currently fighting a battle seemed content to watch those
        who were, or wonder around for a half hour and return for the next move.

        I set up this event as a six player "tournament", so do not have many of
        the problems Bob B. brings up in his post about using this format for a
        full fledged tournament. We are able to come to a satisfactory
        conclusion in a five hour time slot.

        Terry

        On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:17:33 -0000 "stenicplus" <stenicplus@...>
        writes:
        In all the DBA tournaments that any of you may have attended did any
        one use the campaign rules rather than straight pairing based upon
        some scoring system and a Swiss-Chess style format ?

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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      • stenicplus
        ... up the ... Which is actually the effect I want. Berkeley is not about being a superior general (although of course people play to win) but rather just
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 4, 2003
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          --- In DBA@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hazelwood <danh@t...> wrote:
          > I think campaigns are great fun, but they don't automatically cough
          up the
          > superior general like a swiss format tournament allegedly does.

          Which is actually the effect I want. Berkeley is not about being a
          superior general (although of course people play to win) but rather
          just about getting together with loads of armies. The actual
          tournament is just a vehicle to play games.

          Steve P
        • stenicplus
          ... many of ... for a ... Thanks Terry, that is very useful to know. Can you recall roughly how many years you got in and how many battles ? Steve P
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 4, 2003
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            --- In DBA@yahoogroups.com, Terry Griner <TGRINER@J...> wrote:
            > I set up this event as a six player "tournament", so do not have
            many of
            > the problems Bob B. brings up in his post about using this format
            for a
            > full fledged tournament. We are able to come to a satisfactory
            > conclusion in a five hour time slot.
            >



            Thanks Terry, that is very useful to know. Can you recall roughly how
            many years you got in and how many battles ?

            Steve P
          • Robert Beattie
            One reason our group never got happy with the DBA Campaign was that there was no reason to fight except to fight. What is needed is some way to make various
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 4, 2003
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              One reason our group never got happy with the DBA Campaign was that there
              was no reason to fight except to fight. What is needed is some way to make
              various players need to attack another. We spent too much time in the
              political stuff, trying to get allies, but there is not much to offer.

              We really enjoyed a War of the Roses campaign game, Protector of the Realm,
              that pitted the King against nobles one of whom became King and then
              confronted the nobles. Anyone know if this is published or on line?

              Bob

              --On Fri, Jul 4, 2003 7:02 AM +0000 stenicplus <stenicplus@...>
              wrote:

              > --- In DBA@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hazelwood <danh@t...> wrote:
              >> I think campaigns are great fun, but they don't automatically cough
              > up the
              >> superior general like a swiss format tournament allegedly does.
              >
              > Which is actually the effect I want. Berkeley is not about being a
              > superior general (although of course people play to win) but rather
              > just about getting together with loads of armies. The actual
              > tournament is just a vehicle to play games.
              >
              > Steve P
              >
              >
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            • kblackley@shaw.ca
              It is neither. It was written by Wim Oudshoorn. I still have his email I think. Let me know off-list if you want it. Ken Blackley Ken Blackley s Medieval
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 4, 2003
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                It is neither. It was written by Wim Oudshoorn. I still have his email I think. Let me know off-list if you want it.


                Ken Blackley
                Ken Blackley's Medieval Wargames Page
                http://members.shaw.ca/kblackley/

                "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, the seas
                sleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke, and cities made of
                song. Somewhere there's danger; somewhere there's injustice, and somewhere
                else the tea is getting cold! Come on Ace, we've got work to do!"


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Robert Beattie <beattie@...>
                Date: Friday, July 4, 2003 12:58 pm
                Subject: Re: [DBA] Re: Campaigns

                > One reason our group never got happy with the DBA Campaign was
                > that there
                > was no reason to fight except to fight. What is needed is some
                > way to make
                > various players need to attack another. We spent too much time in the
                > political stuff, trying to get allies, but there is not much to
                > offer.
                >
                > We really enjoyed a War of the Roses campaign game, Protector of
                > the Realm,
                > that pitted the King against nobles one of whom became King and then
                > confronted the nobles. Anyone know if this is published or on line?
                >
                > Bob
                >
                > --On Fri, Jul 4, 2003 7:02 AM +0000 stenicplus
                > <stenicplus@...>wrote:
                >
                > > --- In DBA@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hazelwood <danh@t...> wrote:
                > >> I think campaigns are great fun, but they don't automatically
                > cough
                > > up the
                > >> superior general like a swiss format tournament allegedly does.
                > >
                > > Which is actually the effect I want. Berkeley is not about being
                > a
                > > superior general (although of course people play to win) but
                > rather
                > > just about getting together with loads of armies. The actual
                > > tournament is just a vehicle to play games.
                > >
                > > Steve P
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
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                > Service.
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              • Michael Demana
                ... Last year, at one of our regional conventions, Advance the Colors in Springfield, OH, a friend named Mike Stelzer ran a one-day, DBA campaign event. It
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 4, 2003
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                  on 7/3/03 8:17 AM, stenicplus at stenicplus@... wrote:

                  > In all the DBA tournaments that any of you may have attended did any
                  > one use the campaign rules rather than straight pairing based upon
                  > some scoring system and a Swiss-Chess style format ?

                  Last year, at one of our regional conventions, Advance the Colors in
                  Springfield, OH, a friend named Mike Stelzer ran a one-day, DBA campaign
                  event. It worked pretty well as a "framework" for battles.

                  It worked somewhat like this:
                  Players were randomly divided into two groups, "Odds" and "Evens."
                  The Odds rolled a die, with high scorers in turn choosing to invade one of
                  the Evens. If successful, that player's "kingdoms" became a vassal, and the
                  overlord could dictate what his actions were (who he would invade, etc.)
                  from that point on. If unsuccessful, the defending Even player had assumed
                  to have repulsed the attack on his kingdom.

                  Next turn, the Evens had their chance to invade. Any vassal Evens did what
                  their overlords chose for them. And yes, if a vassal conquers another
                  kingdom, it all is for the greater glory of the main empire. If the main
                  empire is invaded, he can instead dictate one of his vassals to fight for
                  his kingdom's defense (better matchup, whatever).

                  On the third turn, we were re-divided into "Empires" and "Independents."
                  This went on in alternating rounds until time was pretty much up. It was a
                  satisfying framework for a set of battles. Any actual map (none was
                  produced, although this could be done) was admittedly abstract.

                  Mike Stelzer plans to run it again this year, it was considered successful
                  enough.

                  Seeya!
                  -- Mike Demana
                  Check out my travel web page at: http://home.earthlink.net/~mikedemana/
                  Or my gaming web page: http://www.geocities.com/mikedemana
                • Robert Beattie
                  Yes, this is a good way to drive the campaign. I will give it a try. Bob --On Fri, Jul 4, 2003 9:48 PM -0400 Michael Demana
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 5, 2003
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                    Yes, this is a good way to "drive" the campaign. I will give it a try.
                    Bob

                    --On Fri, Jul 4, 2003 9:48 PM -0400 Michael Demana
                    <mikedemana@...> wrote:

                    > on 7/3/03 8:17 AM, stenicplus at stenicplus@... wrote:
                    >
                    >> In all the DBA tournaments that any of you may have attended did any
                    >> one use the campaign rules rather than straight pairing based upon
                    >> some scoring system and a Swiss-Chess style format ?
                    >
                    > Last year, at one of our regional conventions, Advance the Colors in
                    > Springfield, OH, a friend named Mike Stelzer ran a one-day, DBA campaign
                    > event. It worked pretty well as a "framework" for battles.
                    >
                    > It worked somewhat like this:
                    > Players were randomly divided into two groups, "Odds" and "Evens."
                    > The Odds rolled a die, with high scorers in turn choosing to invade one of
                    > the Evens. If successful, that player's "kingdoms" became a vassal, and
                    > the overlord could dictate what his actions were (who he would invade,
                    > etc.) from that point on. If unsuccessful, the defending Even player had
                    > assumed to have repulsed the attack on his kingdom.
                    >
                    > Next turn, the Evens had their chance to invade. Any vassal Evens did
                    > what their overlords chose for them. And yes, if a vassal conquers
                    > another kingdom, it all is for the greater glory of the main empire. If
                    > the main empire is invaded, he can instead dictate one of his vassals to
                    > fight for his kingdom's defense (better matchup, whatever).
                    >
                    > On the third turn, we were re-divided into "Empires" and "Independents."
                    > This went on in alternating rounds until time was pretty much up. It was
                    > a satisfying framework for a set of battles. Any actual map (none was
                    > produced, although this could be done) was admittedly abstract.
                    >
                    > Mike Stelzer plans to run it again this year, it was considered successful
                    > enough.
                    >
                    > Seeya!
                    > -- Mike Demana
                    > Check out my travel web page at: http://home.earthlink.net/~mikedemana/
                    > Or my gaming web page: http://www.geocities.com/mikedemana
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • Terry Griner
                    I can t remember much beyond the fact that we normally got to a point where all but a couple players had become tributaries and/or had their standing army
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 6, 2003
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                      I can't remember much beyond the fact that we normally got to a point
                      where all but a couple players had become tributaries and/or had their
                      standing army reduced to next to nothing, so the winner was pretty clear.

                      Terry

                      On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:03:46 -0000 "stenicplus" <stenicplus@...>
                      writes:
                      We are able to come to a satisfactory
                      > conclusion in a five hour time slot.
                      >



                      Thanks Terry, that is very useful to know. Can you recall roughly how
                      many years you got in and how many battles ?

                      Steve P

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • stenicplus
                      ... point ... their ... clear. ... OK, Thanks :) Steve P
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jul 7, 2003
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                        --- In DBA@yahoogroups.com, Terry Griner <TGRINER@J...> wrote:
                        > I can't remember much beyond the fact that we normally got to a
                        point
                        > where all but a couple players had become tributaries and/or had
                        their
                        > standing army reduced to next to nothing, so the winner was pretty
                        clear.
                        >
                        > Terry
                        >


                        OK, Thanks :)


                        Steve P
                      • Dan Hazelwood
                        The was also the linear campaign. It was a variation of 6 steps from Antioch to Jerusalem and 6 steps from Antioch to Constantinople. Whoever walks up fights
                        Message 11 of 19 , Feb 3, 2004
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                          The was also the linear campaign.

                          It was a variation of 6 steps from Antioch to Jerusalem and 6 steps from
                          Antioch to Constantinople.

                          Whoever walks up fights the battle. Winner pushes one toward goal. Armies
                          change in different steps.

                          Back a while we had a Peloponnesian war campaign in spear point along these
                          lines.


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Robert Beattie [mailto:beattie@...]
                          Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:36 PM
                          To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [DBA] Campaigns

                          I hope you will be able to play in some of the CW events.

                          The Campaign situation is a troublesome one. People have wondered
                          since the first edition about doing campaigns at conventions. I have
                          played a few with the local club. The problem that I see is the down
                          time involved. When there is a battle to be fought, the two who are
                          involved and maybe an ally or two get to play for an hour. Those not
                          involved can stand around (sit around) and watch or wander around the
                          dealers or other games. Then there is some moves and another battle
                          for an hour. 2 play and 2-4 wait. Then there is talking and moving
                          and another battle for an hour. So after 4 hours there has been 3
                          battles and some talking. It is possible that 1-3 players have not yet
                          had any battles. This has been my experience. In 4 hours there could
                          have been 4 battles for all players and a whole tournament done.

                          I could never get into the flow of the tournament, too much diplomacy
                          and no "reason" to fight except to fight. If I were not doing a set of
                          regular 1 vs 1 games, I'd rather play a big scenario game.

                          If anyone would like to try a Campaign at one of the Eastern US cons,
                          I'd be happy to arrange with NASAMW for space to do it.

                          The best "campaign" I ever saw at a con was a large table with the
                          whole area map laid out on it. The players had half size elements with
                          6mm figs. Everyone had his army on the table and was moving it around
                          the road network and across country. There were battles with only a
                          few players at a time, but between bounds, everyone made strategic
                          moves and there was more than one battle going on at a time. It looked
                          very nice and seemed to play well.

                          Bob
                          beattie@...
                          On Feb 2, 2004, at 4:41 PM, bostwick wrote:

                          Was talking with my brother this morning about the DBA events at the
                          upcoming Cold Wars... They all look great. But, was wondering, does
                          anyone
                          ever run the Campaign from the back of the DBA book. It looks like it
                          would
                          be a great event for a Saturday Afternoon.

                          Jon


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                        • David Schlanger
                          WADBAG is working on a convention campaign event for Historicon 2004 or Cold Wars 2005, it s Chris Brantley s little baby. DS ... Was talking with my brother
                          Message 12 of 19 , Feb 3, 2004
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                            WADBAG is working on a convention campaign event for Historicon 2004 or Cold Wars 2005, it's Chris Brantley's little baby.

                            DS

                            >>> bostwick@... 02/02/04 04:41PM >>>
                            Was talking with my brother this morning about the DBA events at the
                            upcoming Cold Wars... They all look great. But, was wondering, does anyone
                            ever run the Campaign from the back of the DBA book. It looks like it would
                            be a great event for a Saturday Afternoon.

                            Jon


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                          • Art of Wargames
                            But, ... Hi We have played such a campaign , albeit a fictitious one. It is chronicled here: http://www.geocities.com/theartofwargames/campancients01.html
                            Message 13 of 19 , Feb 3, 2004
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                              But,
                              > was wondering, does anyone
                              > ever run the Campaign from the back of the DBA book.
                              > It looks like it would
                              > be a great event for a Saturday Afternoon.
                              >
                              > Jon

                              Hi

                              We have played such a campaign , albeit a fictitious
                              one. It is chronicled here:

                              http://www.geocities.com/theartofwargames/campancients01.html


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                            • Terry Griner
                              Very enjoyable. But you might want to revisit the paragraph on prestige points. A player...whose troops destroyed the main enemy protagonist s general gains
                              Message 14 of 19 , Feb 6, 2004
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                                Very enjoyable. But you might want to revisit the paragraph on prestige
                                points. "A player...whose troops destroyed the main enemy protagonist's
                                general gains an ADDITIONAL 2 prestige points..." (capital letters used
                                for emphasis). This is in addition to the "1 prestige point for each
                                enemy troop element his troops have destroyed...in excess of those of his
                                own troop elements that have been destroyed."

                                Therefore, when figuring net prestige points after a battle, destruction
                                of the enemy general element is worth 3 points. However, losing one's
                                own general seems to only subtract 1 prestige point (if one can lose
                                one's general and still win the battle).

                                Terry in Spokane

                                On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:50:37 -0800 (PST) Art of Wargames
                                <theartofwargames@...> writes:
                                We have played such a campaign , albeit a fictitious
                                one. It is chronicled here:

                                http://www.geocities.com/theartofwargames/campancients01.html

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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