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  • Simon Bargery
    I am considering doing thermopylae for the next 25mm DBA game, possibly at Bovington and definitley at Salute 04 (If they will have me) Scenerywise I am
    Message 1 of 7 , May 1, 2003
      I am considering doing thermopylae for the next 25mm DBA game, possibly at
      Bovington and definitley at Salute 04 (If they will have me)
      Scenerywise I am thinking high cliffs on one side and gentle slope across to
      either a cliff edge again, downwards, or the shoreline.
      I have read differing views about the sea side of the pass, cananyone point
      me in the direction of positive historical references??
      I knwo Pressfield has Persians falling off the seabord edge to their death
      in the waves, but I am not sure how accurate this is.
      Anyhow, another item I wanted assistance from you on was the make up of the
      persian army and associated lists.
      The idea is to have the Spartans I/52b facing various waves of 'Persian'
      troops. Each wave would be a different battle.
      The Spartans would move forward and backwards depending on the result.
      I am basing the topology on the Pressfield book as it is so vibrant in it's
      description.
      So there are three battlefields, the wall, infront of the wall and the mound
      for the last stand, possibly with the greeks setting up in a central zone.
      what I am trying to get around to is the persian forces for each battle.
      The Medes are in there, but where does the II/40 list go after 550 BC?
      The Immortals? Are these all in the EAP list?
      Si2



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    • Bill
      ... possibly at ... ... battle. ... BC? Assuming you mean I/40 (II/40 as you should know is Early Moorish), then post 550 it becomes I/60 for both
      Message 2 of 7 , May 2, 2003
        --- In DBA@yahoogroups.com, Simon Bargery <simon.bargery@p...> wrote:
        > I am considering doing thermopylae for the next 25mm DBA game,
        possibly at
        > Bovington and definitley at Salute 04 (If they will have me)
        <snip>
        > what I am trying to get around to is the persian forces for each
        battle.
        > The Medes are in there, but where does the II/40 list go after 550
        BC?

        Assuming you mean I/40 (II/40 as you should know is Early Moorish),
        then post 550 it becomes I/60 for both Persians and Medes.

        > The Immortals? Are these all in the EAP list?

        Yes, a proportion of the 8Bw would be the Immortals.

        > Si2
      • Robert Beattie
        I just finished Gates of Fire. Best reference for Hoplite warfare I ve read. Note that the Persians sent in various nationalities in waves. Consider using
        Message 3 of 7 , May 3, 2003
          I just finished "Gates of Fire." Best reference for Hoplite warfare I've
          read. Note that the Persians sent in various nationalities in waves.
          Consider using each of the nationalities in turn. No mounted atacked in
          the first 2 days, Persians used all foot. There were only 300 Spartans
          present, not even one element in the DBA scale. Scale can be modified,
          certainly. Nevertheless, consider having other Greek states involved,
          Thespians in black cloaks for example. If you to to a lower ratio, say an
          element is only 100 real men, then you still get just 3 stands of Spartans,
          plus one of Aux made up of squires.

          Read GoF and base you game on that for a colorful and exciting reference.

          Bob
          beattie@...

          --On Thu, May 1, 2003 9:06 AM +0100 Simon Bargery
          <simon.bargery@...> wrote:

          > I am considering doing thermopylae for the next 25mm DBA game, possibly at
          > Bovington and definitley at Salute 04 (If they will have me)
          > Scenerywise I am thinking high cliffs on one side and gentle slope across
          > to either a cliff edge again, downwards, or the shoreline.
          > I have read differing views about the sea side of the pass, cananyone
          > point me in the direction of positive historical references??
          > I knwo Pressfield has Persians falling off the seabord edge to their death
          > in the waves, but I am not sure how accurate this is.
          > Anyhow, another item I wanted assistance from you on was the make up of
          > the persian army and associated lists.
          > The idea is to have the Spartans I/52b facing various waves of 'Persian'
          > troops. Each wave would be a different battle.
          > The Spartans would move forward and backwards depending on the result.
          > I am basing the topology on the Pressfield book as it is so vibrant in
          > it's description.
          > So there are three battlefields, the wall, infront of the wall and the
          > mound for the last stand, possibly with the greeks setting up in a
          > central zone. what I am trying to get around to is the persian forces for
          > each battle. The Medes are in there, but where does the II/40 list go
          > after 550 BC? The Immortals? Are these all in the EAP list?
          > Si2
          >
          >
          >
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          > ________________________________________________________________________
          >
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        • David & Robin
          300 Spartans yes, but didn t they have a few friends and allies with them? Still I m not sure it would be enough to make a full 12 element DBA army, and
          Message 4 of 7 , May 3, 2003
            300 Spartans yes, but didn't they have a few friends and allies with them? Still I'm not sure it would be enough to make a full 12 element DBA army, and part of the drama of the Hot Gates is the vast imbalance in the forces....

            GoF is a cracking good read though. Almost enough to inspire me to do a Hoplite army.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Robert Beattie
            To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 10:14 AM
            Subject: [DBA] Thermopylae


            I just finished "Gates of Fire." Best reference for Hoplite warfare I've
            read. Note that the Persians sent in various nationalities in waves.
            Consider using each of the nationalities in turn. No mounted atacked in
            the first 2 days, Persians used all foot. There were only 300 Spartans
            present, not even one element in the DBA scale. Scale can be modified,
            certainly. Nevertheless, consider having other Greek states involved,
            Thespians in black cloaks for example. If you to to a lower ratio, say an
            element is only 100 real men, then you still get just 3 stands of Spartans,
            plus one of Aux made up of squires.

            Read GoF and base you game on that for a colorful and exciting reference.

            Bob
            beattie@...




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robert Beattie
            That s what I meant by consider having other Greek states involved, Thespians in black cloaks for example. There were 4000 Greeks defending the pass. Bob
            Message 5 of 7 , May 3, 2003
              That's what I meant by "consider having other Greek
              states involved, Thespians in black cloaks for example." There were 4000
              Greeks defending
              the pass.

              Bob
              --On Sat, May 3, 2003 12:31 PM -0400 David & Robin <gpfarm@...> wrote:

              > 300 Spartans yes, but didn't they have a few friends and allies with
              > them? Still I'm not sure it would be enough to make a full 12 element
              > DBA army, and part of the drama of the Hot Gates is the vast imbalance in
              > the forces....
              >
              > GoF is a cracking good read though. Almost enough to inspire me to do a
              > Hoplite army. ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Robert Beattie
              > To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 10:14 AM
              > Subject: [DBA] Thermopylae
              >
              >
              > I just finished "Gates of Fire." Best reference for Hoplite warfare
              > I've read. Note that the Persians sent in various nationalities in
              > waves. Consider using each of the nationalities in turn. No mounted
              > atacked in the first 2 days, Persians used all foot. There were only
              > 300 Spartans present, not even one element in the DBA scale. Scale can
              > be modified, certainly. Nevertheless, consider having other Greek
              > states involved, Thespians in black cloaks for example. If you to to a
              > lower ratio, say an element is only 100 real men, then you still get
              > just 3 stands of Spartans, plus one of Aux made up of squires.
              >
              > Read GoF and base you game on that for a colorful and exciting reference.
              >
              > Bob
              > beattie@...
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • SImon Bargery
              Whilst gates of fire is a superb book, it is fiction. I know it is based on a true story but it is still a lot of conjecture. I have to say I was transfixed
              Message 6 of 7 , May 3, 2003
                Whilst 'gates of fire is a superb book, it is fiction. I know it is
                based on a true story but it is still a lot of conjecture. I have to
                say I was transfixed by the story and the description is awesome, I
                have read and reread this book, I love it.
                The '300' were the last stand after the greeks had realised they
                were about to be encircled and massacred. The spartans stayed and
                the others were sent home, so to speak.
                It was the 'waves' of the persian army that attacked the greek
                position i was interested in gaming. I figured the numbers would
                have been pretty even in these attacks. Each one would be a
                different game.

                Si2

                --- In DBA@yahoogroups.com, Robert Beattie <beattie@u...> wrote:
                > That's what I meant by "consider having other Greek
                > states involved, Thespians in black cloaks for example." There
                were 4000
                > Greeks defending
                > the pass.
                >
                > Bob
                > --On Sat, May 3, 2003 12:31 PM -0400 David & Robin <gpfarm@s...>
                wrote:
                >
                > > 300 Spartans yes, but didn't they have a few friends and allies
                with
                > > them? Still I'm not sure it would be enough to make a full 12
                element
                > > DBA army, and part of the drama of the Hot Gates is the vast
                imbalance in
                > > the forces....
                > >
                > > GoF is a cracking good read though. Almost enough to inspire me
                to do a
                > > Hoplite army. ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: Robert Beattie
                > > To: DBA@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 10:14 AM
                > > Subject: [DBA] Thermopylae
                > >
                > >
                > > I just finished "Gates of Fire." Best reference for Hoplite
                warfare
                > > I've read. Note that the Persians sent in various
                nationalities in
                > > waves. Consider using each of the nationalities in turn. No
                mounted
                > > atacked in the first 2 days, Persians used all foot. There
                were only
                > > 300 Spartans present, not even one element in the DBA scale.
                Scale can
                > > be modified, certainly. Nevertheless, consider having other
                Greek
                > > states involved, Thespians in black cloaks for example. If
                you to to a
                > > lower ratio, say an element is only 100 real men, then you
                still get
                > > just 3 stands of Spartans, plus one of Aux made up of
                squires.
                > >
                > > Read GoF and base you game on that for a colorful and exciting
                reference.
                > >
                > > Bob
                > > beattie@u...
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
              • kh_ranitzsch
                ... I haven t read Gates of Fire , but some people are rather critical of its historical accuracy, see for example:
                Message 7 of 7 , May 5, 2003
                  --- In DBA@yahoogroups.com, "SImon Bargery" <simon.bargery@p...>
                  wrote:
                  > Whilst 'gates of fire is a superb book, it is fiction. I know it is
                  > based on a true story but it is still a lot of conjecture.

                  I haven't read "Gates of Fire", but some people are rather critical
                  of its historical accuracy, see for example:
                  http://www.szoraster.com/ClassicalHistoryNovels/Gates_of_Fire.html

                  Certainly, the prime original source - Herodot - is a pretty good
                  read too, and just about the *only* source about the battle.
                  Recommended.

                  Greetings
                  Karl Heinz
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