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Re: [Czechlist] TERMS: SUV, forward pass + THANKS: Scull &Bones + motions

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  • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
    ... That really is strange. Your instinct is correct, because most SUVs are not used only for recreation, but as a main family vehicle. Another term for SUV
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 2, 2002
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      In a message dated 2/2/02 5:03:36 AM, irena.steinerova@... writes:

      >I have found "vozidlo pro
      >volny cas", but it is too long and seems strange.

      That really is strange. Your instinct is correct, because most SUVs are not
      used only for recreation, but as a main family vehicle. Another term for SUV
      would be "all-terrain vehicle". This is also tricky, because most SUV
      drivers -- especially those with Lincoln Navigators -- never go off-roading
      in them. They are driven mainly for image, for their size (to some
      Americans, size = safety), for their better road visibility, and for their
      perceived practicality. For the Lincoln Navigator specifically, you could
      make up a Czech term that means something to the effect of "luxury
      all-terrain vehicle". In fact, I think it's sometimes referred to this way
      even in English. For that segment of the vehicle market in general, you
      could also describe it "passenger utility vehicle". That term also appears
      in English sometimes. In English we can't call it a "Jeep", because as it
      says on the advertisements, "Jeep is a registered trademark of
      DaimlerChrysler," but you may be able to call an SUV a "dz^íp" in Czech, but
      that's not quite right either. My automotive dictionary offers "terénní
      osobní vúz", which sounds accurate to my non-Czech ears, but my guess is that
      you'll probably have to make up a term yourself.

      BTW, I once had a class of students in the CR who said that English was not
      an expressive language and had a smaller vocabulary than Czech, while Czech
      had a word for everything on earth. One of the first things I did to prove
      them wrong was to present them with a bunch of everyday English terms for
      different types of cars and for various driving maneuvers. For most terms
      they could not come up with a Czech equivalent. Then I started the same
      thing with pastry...

      BTW, it may help you a little to understand why the Lincoln Navigator even
      came about. (I worked for years in automotive communications and advertising
      in Detroit.) Lincoln and Cadillac had been severely losing market share for
      a number of years, because their traditional customers were dying. I mean
      they were literally getting old and dying! So, both companies had to come up
      with something to lure younger customers. Baby-boomers are embarrassed by
      overt displays of luxury, unless they appear "practical" somehow, so the
      answer was to come up with a luxury SUV.

      >The other question relates to football. I have the following sentence:
      >"...a lawyer who holds his speech in the same kind of suspicion with which
      Woody
      >Hayes viewed the forward pass." OK, I have found that W.H. was a football
      >coach and I understand that "forward pass" can be either a person or "hozeni
      >mice na protivnikovu branku". But which one fits the context??

      It's not the person (in fact, I have never even heard the term used to refer
      to a person). It's the "hozeni mice" meaning.

      Would you by any chance be translating a training manual for salespeople?
      Those things are always full of sports stories that don't translate into othe
      r cultures. What do you do with that? In fact, when those things would
      appear on our desks for the first time, my coworkers and I used to play a
      game: "Hey, you guys! Is this one going to be football, basketball or
      baseball?" You might tell the client that American football stories are
      meaningless to Czechs and ask for another way to handle that section.
      They'll probably be totally ignorant of foreign cultures and tell you "just
      translate it", but at least you'll have said something. At one company where
      I worked, the account people told the Spanish translator "just translate it",
      and the title of the automotive sales training program came out in Puerto
      Rican Spanish meaning "A Big Bowel Movement". It had been printed all over
      pens, note pads and T-shirts to be given to the seminar participants, and the
      problem wasn't discovered until right before "show time".

      Jamie
    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
      I still think that vozidlo pro volny cas is a terrible translation of the term, and very inaccurate. That calque sportovni uzitkovy vuz is better, but I
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 2, 2002
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        I still think that "vozidlo pro volny cas" is a terrible translation of the
        term, and very inaccurate. That calque "sportovni uzitkovy vuz" is better,
        but I don't know if it sounds natural to Czechs.

        Keep in mind that automotive companies in the US, and their ad agencies,
        almost never check the accuracy of those translations, so bad terms -- or
        even completely nonsensical terms -- can go undetected. They can even
        perpetuate themselves under the justification that, "That's what they used
        last time," or "It's what we usually use," etc. In one manual I went over,
        they were using the Spanish equivalent of "záliv" to refer to a section of a
        garage. It was totally nonsensical and incomprehensible, but people
        justified it by saying, "That's been used before!" So, keep in mind that you
        can change a pre-existing bad term to a good one, and probably no one will
        notice on the American side, and on the Czech side they may even be grateful.

        Jamie
      • ottop1
        ... translation of the ... I go with on this Jamie. I have been always used to call such cars terenni vuz or terenak (colloquial style). BR Otto
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 2, 2002
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          > I still think that "vozidlo pro volny cas" is a terrible
          translation of the
          > term, and very inaccurate. That calque "sportovni uzitkovy vuz" is

          I go with on this Jamie. I have been always used to call such
          cars "terenni vuz" or "terenak" (colloquial style).

          BR

          Otto
        • Matej Klimes
          SUV is Sport Utility Vehicle, as I m sure you know, I ve seen it translated as: Sportovni uzitkovy vuz in Czecho, but don t think it s anything else than a
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 2, 2002
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            SUV is Sport Utility Vehicle, as I'm sure you know, I've seen it translated
            as:

            Sportovni uzitkovy vuz in Czecho, but don't think it's anything else than a
            literal translation....

            I've also seen these acronyms (SUV, HRV, etc) used as such - I think they
            are understood among car people, maybe try using SUV, explaining it and then
            sticking to it?

            Matej


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Irena Steinerova <irena.steinerova@...>
            To: Czechlist <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:03 AM
            Subject: [Czechlist] TERMS: SUV, forward pass + THANKS: Scull &Bones +
            motions


            > First of all, I would like to thank to everyone for their suggestions
            about
            > Scull&Bones (I decided to call it simply "tajny spolek Lebka s hnaty").
            Many
            > thanks to Michal Borek and Michael Trittipo for their valuable help with a
            > discovery motion/m. to supress!
            >
            > Today, I have two more questions. The first one is related to vehicles
            (the
            > topic I am quite ignorant of): Does anyone know what an SUV (sport utility
            > vehicle) is called in Czech? It does not have to be an "official" term,
            just
            > a colloquial name. (In my case, it is a Lincoln Navigator). I know what it
            > looks like, but what the hell people call it? I have found "vozidlo pro
            > volny cas", but it is too long and seems strange.
            >
            > The other question relates to football. I have the following sentence:
            "...a
            > lawyer who holds his speech in the same kind of suspicion with which Woody
            > Hayesviewed the forward pass." OK, I have found that W.H. was a football
            > coach and I understand that "forward pass" can be either a person or
            "hozeni
            > mice na protivnikovu branku". But which one fits the context??
            >
            > Many thanks in advance!
            > Irena
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Czechlist: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
            > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
          • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
            ... I think vozidlo pro volny cas must originally have been the translation of recreational vehicle ( RV for short), and was then misapplied to SUVs.
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 2, 2002
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              In a message dated 2/2/02 11:07:25 AM, otto@... writes:

              >> I still think that "vozidlo pro volny cas" is a terrible
              >translation of the
              >> term, and very inaccurate. That calque "sportovni uzitkovy vuz" is

              >I go with on this Jamie. I have been always used to call such
              >cars "terenni vuz" or "terenak" (colloquial style).

              I think "vozidlo pro volny cas" must originally have been the translation of
              "recreational vehicle" ("RV" for short), and was then misapplied to SUVs.

              Jamie
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