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Czechlist's long lost weekend - Digest 2

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  • melvyn.geo
    WED 7th November DIGEST 2 There are 15 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: CHAT: Film Kaktus a vyslovnost From: padamek@mbox.dkm.cz 2. Re:
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 31 1:39 PM
      WED 7th November DIGEST 2

      There are 15 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: padamek@...
      2. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Vollams" <vollams@...>
      3. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      4. Re: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      5. ADMIN: Archive update
      From: "Melvyn Clarke" <zehrovak@...>
      6. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "PSS Praha - Coilin O' Connor" <coilin.oconnor@...>
      7. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...>
      8. Re: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...>
      9. RE: Pomoravi, WAS: Pacific Rim
      From: "palik" <j.palik@...>
      10. Re: Pomoravi, WAS: Pacific Rim
      From: padamek@...
      11. Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: zehrovak@...
      12. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: Shepherdess´s Cottage <kz@...>
      13. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: "Kostas Zgafas" <kzgafas@...>
      14. PRAGUE CHAT: Debuzirovani
      From: zehrovak@...
      15. Re: PRAGUE CHAT: Debuzirovani
      From: "Miroslav Herold" <miroslav_herold@...>


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      Message: 1
      Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 06:42:11 -0000
      From: padamek@...
      Subject: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      Rekl bych, ze ceska abeceda je tak "straightforward", ze se tu snad
      ani zadna chyba udelat neda. Pokud jde o zvlastnosti prizvuku, mne
      pripada u Anglicanu/Americanu nejnapadnejsi souhlaska "t", kterou oni
      vyslovuji s pridechem, ktery v cestine neni. O cem se taky malokdy
      mluvi, je jina melodie vety. Tu si osvojuji dokonce i Cesi, kteri
      ziji dlouho v cizine, takze nekdy clovek slysi navratilce, ktery umi
      stale jeste perfektne cesky, ale melodii vety uz ma "anglickou"
      nebo "americkou", aniz by si to uvedomoval.
      --- In Czechlist@y..., "Rachel Thompson" <rachel.thompson@s...> wrote:
      > And are there any funny typical mistakes that English speakers make
      in
      > Czech? Is there any letter confusion like this v/w thing, or do we
      just
      > normally have problems producing soft consonants and r^ and so on?
      >
      > Rachel


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      Message: 2
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 09:56:42 +0100
      From: "Vollams" <vollams@...>
      Subject: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.


      > How about "Small Britain"? :-)

      Ooh! Trouble is, 'Small Britain', or rather 'Little Britain', refers
      to
      Brittany in France.


      OK, what about Britain Minor?

      Or Departement Nord-ouest d'EU (excuse my French)? Has a nice ring to
      it,
      nespa?

      Yours pwovocateefly,

      Seemon Vol-au-vent.



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      Message: 3
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 09:12:29 +0100
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      Napadaji mne jeste mekke slabiky di, ti... a to r) (zvlaste americke
      drncive) se taky pozna. No a ceska specialita ^r, ta dela problemy i
      Slovakum.
      Jeste jedna vec - ale ta je zase u vetsiny cizincu. Problem s
      rozlisovanim mezi formalni a neformalni reci (hlavne hovorove koncovky
      v psanem textu). ALe to je uz o necem jinem....

      Martin
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: padamek@...
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 7:42 AM
      Subject: [Czechlist] Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost


      Rekl bych, ze ceska abeceda je tak "straightforward", ze se tu snad
      ani zadna chyba udelat neda. Pokud jde o zvlastnosti prizvuku, mne
      pripada u Anglicanu/Americanu nejnapadnejsi souhlaska "t", kterou oni
      vyslovuji s pridechem, ktery v cestine neni. O cem se taky malokdy
      mluvi, je jina melodie vety. Tu si osvojuji dokonce i Cesi, kteri
      ziji dlouho v cizine, takze nekdy clovek slysi navratilce, ktery umi
      stale jeste perfektne cesky, ale melodii vety uz ma "anglickou"
      nebo "americkou", aniz by si to uvedomoval.
      --- In Czechlist@y..., "Rachel Thompson" <rachel.thompson@s...> wrote:
      > And are there any funny typical mistakes that English speakers make
      in
      > Czech? Is there any letter confusion like this v/w thing, or do we
      just
      > normally have problems producing soft consonants and r^ and so on?
      >
      > Rachel



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      Message: 4
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 09:19:03 +0100
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.

      I´d propose a compromise: Medium Britain, ou Plus Grand Bretagne -
      Departement Maritime? In Czech, we would have another option:
      Rozpojene
      kralovstvi Velke Britanie bez Severniho Irska a Skotska.

      Cheers!
      Martin

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Vollams" <vollams@...>
      To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 9:56 AM
      Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.


      >
      > > How about "Small Britain"? :-)
      >
      > Ooh! Trouble is, 'Small Britain', or rather 'Little Britain', refers
      to
      > Brittany in France.
      >
      >
      > OK, what about Britain Minor?
      >
      > Or Departement Nord-ouest d'EU (excuse my French)? Has a nice ring
      to it,
      > nespa?
      >
      > Yours pwovocateefly,
      >
      > Seemon Vol-au-vent.
      >



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      Message: 5
      Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 17:31:00 +0800
      From: "Melvyn Clarke" <zehrovak@...>
      Subject: ADMIN: Archive update

      Hi all,

      The following message was sent today on the Ygroups-status list:

      -----Original Message-----
      From: groupsproducer@...
      Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 07:14:16 -0000
      To: ygroups-status@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [yg-status] Groups archives problems


      > In the last couple of days, some groups have lost access to their
      > message archives and group data. If you cannot currently access your
      > group's message archive and other data, please be patient. The data
      > is not lost. Most should be fixed by around 20:00 GMT Wed Nov 7th.
      If
      > after that you are still experiencing problems, let me know.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > James
      >
      >

      M.
      --



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      Message: 6
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:50:59 +0100
      From: "PSS Praha - Coilin O' Connor" <coilin.oconnor@...>
      Subject: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.


      :
      >
      > > How about "Small Britain"? :-)
      >
      > That's actually Brittany (Bretagne).
      > Michael

      It´s also a direct translation of the term in Irish (i.e. Gaelic) for
      Wales.

      Coilin


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      Message: 7
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 11:33:54 +0100
      From: "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...>
      Subject: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.

      > Kurna chlapi, a co Slezko?

      Can't it just be shunted over into Poland with the rest of Silesia?
      It's
      very inconvenient. ;-)

      No, I didn't think about Silesia, or about the Nazi connotations that
      Tom
      mentioned (though I don't suppose these would be felt in the English
      names by many English-speakers).

      > I like England and Wales very much, but do you think it would be
      used
      > the same way by BBC sports announcers as GB today is (e.g. when a
      > Welshman wins it's ...and Great Britain wins, when an Englishman
      wins,
      > England wins, but if a Welsham loses, it's Wales loses and when an
      > Englishman loses, it's Great Britain loses)?

      I haven't noticed this. But then I'm an Englishman, albeit one with a
      Welsh name. (Actually, I'm an Irish Vaughan, but most Vaughans are of
      Welsh descent.) I think most BBC sports commentators and reporters are
      pretty conscientious about using the appropriate name. For example,
      the
      great hurdler Colin Jackson will always be referred to as 'the
      Welshman'
      on the BBC. Of course, the Prague Post is a different matter. Do you
      know that I, an Englishman, once considered writing to the Prague Post
      to
      point out that Colin Jackson was not English, as it had told its
      readers,
      but Welsh? And they say the English disregard the other peoples of the
      Isles! ;-)

      Simon



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      Message: 8
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 11:36:58 +0100
      From: "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.

      > > > How about "Small Britain"? :-)
      > >
      > > Ooh! Trouble is, 'Small Britain', or rather 'Little Britain',
      refers
      > > to Brittany in France.
      >
      > OK, what about Britain Minor?

      This would refer to Brittany, too; see what Ebenezer has to say:

      'Britain ~ An anglicized form of the Latin name for England, Wales and
      Scotland, called Britannia by Caesar and other Roman writers.... Great
      Britain consists of "Britannia prima" (England), "Britannia secunda"
      (Wales), and "North Britain" (Scotland), united under one sway. The
      term
      was first officially used in 1604 when James I was proclaimed "King of
      Great Britain" and was previously used by some writers to distinguish
      Britain from "Britannia Minor", or Brittany, in France.'

      So, how about '1st & 2nd Britain' or 'Britain I & II'?

      Seemo' Vone



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      Message: 9
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 11:54:17 +0100
      From: "palik" <j.palik@...>
      Subject: RE: Pomoravi, WAS: Pacific Rim

      Ahoj vsichni,

      Mirek wrote:
      >what's more, even for Czech rivers, there are no established PO
      componds,
      >e.g. Poberounci, Pomoravi

      Existuje Chranena krajinna oblast Litovelske Pomoravi.
      Aby to nebylo tak jednoduche :-)

      Zdravim srdecne, Vlasta Palikova




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      Message: 10
      Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:19:19 -0000
      From: padamek@...
      Subject: Re: Pomoravi, WAS: Pacific Rim

      Myslim, ze existuje taky Podyji.
      Petr
      --- In Czechlist@y..., "palik" <j.palik@v...> wrote:
      > Ahoj vsichni,
      >
      > Mirek wrote:
      > >what's more, even for Czech rivers, there are no established PO
      componds,
      > >e.g. Poberounci, Pomoravi
      >
      > Existuje Chranena krajinna oblast Litovelske Pomoravi.
      > Aby to nebylo tak jednoduche :-)
      >
      > Zdravim srdecne, Vlasta Palikova
      >



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      Message: 11
      Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 14:39:10 -0000
      From: zehrovak@...
      Subject: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      --- In Czechlist@y..., "Rachel Thompson" <rachel.thompson@s...> wrote:

      >
      > And are there any funny typical mistakes that English speakers make
      in
      > Czech?

      I reckon we native English speakers must give ourselves away in all
      kinds of subtle, subliminal and perhaps amusing ways. Check out Jiri
      Hedanek's excellent site with annotated mouth sections:

      http://www.ff.cuni.cz/departments/fu/jh/jh-czndx.html

      A few examples filched from his pages:

      To pronounce the letter j, the tip of the tongue rests beyond the
      front teeth in Cz while Eng has it protrude. Eng "t", is pronounced
      with the tongue-tip while Cz "t" is made with the tongue blade
      pressed flat against the gums. It is also much less variable in its
      place of articulation and less dependent of the context than Eng "t".
      Unlike Eng "k", Cz "k" is much less variable in its place of
      articulation and less dependent of the context. Cz 'kyl' and 'kul'
      have almost identical "k" sounds, while in Eng 'keel' and 'cool' they
      differ considerably. Concerning "V", you may be surprised to learn
      how weak a sound it gives in many positions, almost frictionless,
      more resembling a kind of slight labio-velar plosive (esp. when
      initial). In fact, it is only before another consonant where "v"
      keeps its full friction. (Weak in 'vana', 'láva' , 'tvar'; while more
      English-like only in, e.g. 'pravda', 'stavba', 'vlajka'.)

      I wonder if this weak 'v' sound goes some way towards explaining
      the 'w'ish sound that we hear in some Czech speakers(?)

      As for T` and D`, I had such problems with them that Hana decided to
      call our dog T'apka to give me a bit of practice. Don't know if it
      did me any good.

      M.



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      Message: 12
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:32:48 +0100
      From: Shepherdess´s Cottage <kz@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      > And are there any funny typical mistakes that English speakers make
      in
      > Czech?

      I would say, in general, English language is positioned more toward
      the
      throat, while Czech (and other Slavic languages) is positioned more
      toward
      the front of mouth, with more emphasis on using tongue and lips. This
      makes
      English language sound softer than Czech. I think this is the reason
      of what
      we call "Czech accent" when Czechs speak English - their English is
      too
      hard, they can´t speak soft as English speakers do. And vice versa,
      English
      speakers do not speak hard as Czechs do. How do native Eng speakers
      view
      Czechs speaking English?

      Kostas



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      Message: 13
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 18:28:08 +0100
      From: "Kostas Zgafas" <kzgafas@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      My apologies, resending the message with the proper sender´s name:

      > And are there any funny typical mistakes that English speakers make
      in
      > Czech?

      I would say, in general, English language is positioned more toward
      the
      throat, while Czech (and other Slavic languages) is positioned more
      toward
      the front of mouth, with more emphasis on using tongue and lips. This
      makes
      English language sound softer than Czech. I think this is the reason
      of what
      we call "Czech accent" when Czechs speak English - their English is
      too
      hard, they can´t speak soft as English speakers do. And vice versa,
      English
      speakers do not speak hard as Czechs do. How do native Eng speakers
      view
      Czechs speaking English?

      Kostas



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      Message: 14
      Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 19:27:51 -0000
      From: zehrovak@...
      Subject: PRAGUE CHAT: Debuzirovani

      Mirku, poprosil jsi me, abych ohlasil v te skupine podrobnosti o nasem
      debuzirovani zitra vecer. Bude to v Orientalni restauraci (Thanh Long)
      na Ostrovni 23, za rohem od tramvajove zastavky na Spalene naproti
      obchodnimu domu Tesco's (Maj). Zaciname 18:30 ale nekteri z nas se asi
      objevi pozdeji.

      Ma zajem jeste nekdo?

      Melvyn
      0603 942 957


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      Message: 15
      Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 21:27:34 +0100
      From: "Miroslav Herold" <miroslav_herold@...>
      Subject: Re: PRAGUE CHAT: Debuzirovani

      Diky, objevim se.
      BR
      Mirek
      **************************************************************
      Ing.Miroslav HEROLD, CSc.

      tlumocník/prekladatel/poradenství/volný novinár
      tel.: xx420 2 5155 4950
      mobil: 0606 865870
      ***********************************************************
      -----Puvodní zpráva-----
      Od: zehrovak@... <zehrovak@...>
      Komu: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Datum: 7. listopadu 2001 20:26
      Predmet: [Czechlist] PRAGUE CHAT: Debuzirovani


      >Mirku, poprosil jsi me, abych ohlasil v te skupine podrobnosti o
      nasem
      >debuzirovani zitra vecer. Bude to v Orientalni restauraci (Thanh
      Long)
      >na Ostrovni 23, za rohem od tramvajove zastavky na Spalene naproti
      >obchodnimu domu Tesco's (Maj). Zaciname 18:30 ale nekteri z nas se
      asi
      >objevi pozdeji.
      >
      >Ma zajem jeste nekdo?
      >
      >Melvyn
      >0603 942 957
      >


      ----------------
      Normal service was resumed sometime on Thursday morning November 8th.

      M.
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