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Czechlist's long lost weekend - Digest 1

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  • melvyn.geo
    TUE 6th November DIGEST 1 ....etc. From: Simon Vaughan 2. CHAT: Film Kaktus a vyslovnost From: Petr Adamek
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 31, 2001
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      TUE 6th November DIGEST 1

      ....etc.
      From: "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...>
      2. CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: "Petr Adamek" <padamek@...>
      3. Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: zehrovak@...
      4. Re: vegetacni upravy
      From: "Dusan Papousek" <Papousek@...>
      5. Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: Tomáa Skront <skront@...>
      6. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      7. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: barendregt@...
      8. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
      9. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
      10. Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: zehrovak@...
      11. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
      12. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      13. Re: TERM: Compounded fee
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      14. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...>
      15. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: Michael Grant <mgrant@...>
      16. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: Michael Grant <mgrant@...>
      17. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: "Irena Steinerova" <irena.steinerova@...>
      18. Re: Re: vegetacni upravy
      From: Michael Grant <mgrant@...>
      19. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: "Rachel Thompson" <rachel.thompson@...>
      20. Sprung Franglais
      From: "Tony Long" <tonylong@...>
      21. Re: testing
      From: "Kostas Zgafas" <kzgafas@...>
      22. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: Michael Grant <mgrant@...>
      23. Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost
      From: Michael Grant <mgrant@...>
      24. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Kostas Zgafas" <kzgafas@...>
      25. Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.
      From: "Miroslav Herold" <miroslav_herold@...>


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      Message: 1
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:40:52 +0100
      From: "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...>
      Subject: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.

      Coilin,

      > I´ve been so used to hearing Czechoslovakia all my life that "Czech"
      on
      > its own sounds really bald.

      More to the point, it's an adjective.

      > Don´t be surprised if "Czechia" is taken up by all of the EUs
      > semi-English speakers when the Czech Republic finally accedes...

      A while back I was pondering what my country might be called once
      Northern
      Ireland has been surrendered to the Republic and the Scots have gone
      their
      separate way. Probably we'll carry on with 'Great Britain', even
      though
      much of Great Britain (i.e. the island) will lie outside its borders.
      But it occurred to me that we could follow the example of 'Trinidad
      and
      Tobago' and simply name the country after its remaining constituent
      parts
      (in descending order of size, naturally). Thus, 'England and Wales'.
      This doesn't actually take much longer to say than 'the USA'.

      As I said in a previous posting, I think that 'Cheskia' is the most
      pleasing Anglicization of 'Cesko'. However, I realize it's unlikely to
      catch on unless, for example, some influential publication adopts it.
      That said, we may not end up with 'Czechia', or (worse) 'Czech' or
      'Czecho', either.

      As/If the European Union becomes stronger, regional entities and
      identities may increasingly assume more importance than national ones.
      (Indeed, this process seems to happening already.) This would seem to
      me
      a good development: a return to natural patriotism after the
      aberration of
      nationalism. With this development, we might begin to hear ancient
      regional names like Catalonia, Lombardy, Saxony and Galicia more often
      than national names like Spain, Italy, Germany and Poland. If so, then
      'Bohemia' and 'Moravia' could be called into service more often than
      they
      are now. Which would be a fine thing, as they are both beautiful
      names.

      Even if the demise of the nation state never comes to pass, we could
      still
      refer to the Czech Republic as 'Bohemia and Moravia', on the model of
      'Trinidad and Tobago' and 'England and Wales'...and 'Sodom and
      Gomorrah'.

      Jus' a fough'.

      Simon





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      Message: 2
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:02:08 +0100
      From: "Petr Adamek" <padamek@...>
      Subject: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      Vcera jsem si uprostred deje zapnul v televizi film Kaktus (anglicke
      zneni s
      titulky). Podle akcentu bych se byl vsadil, ze hlavni postavu hraje
      ceska
      emigrantka, protoze zatim jsem cesky akcent vzdycky rozeznal. Pozdeji
      jsem
      ale ku svemu udivu zjistil, ze to byla Isabelle Huppert(ova). Je
      francouzsky
      akcent v anglictine tak podobny ceskemu?
      Petr



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      Message: 3
      Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 11:14:16 -0000
      From: zehrovak@...
      Subject: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      --- In Czechlist@y..., "Petr Adamek" <padamek@m...> wrote:
      > Vcera jsem si uprostred deje zapnul v televizi film Kaktus (anglicke
      zneni s
      > titulky). Podle akcentu bych se byl vsadil, ze hlavni postavu hraje
      ceska
      > emigrantka, protoze zatim jsem cesky akcent vzdycky rozeznal.
      Pozdeji jsem
      > ale ku svemu udivu zjistil, ze to byla Isabelle Huppert(ova). Je
      francouzsky
      > akcent v anglictine tak podobny ceskemu?
      > Petr

      Mais non! Ebys mlevil spwavne Frenglish, mesis vynechat vsochny 'h',
      poezivat vedne 'r', dat pwizvuk na spetnou slebiku a nejek zkreslit
      vsochny semohlesky, nepr: Good Morning = Gird Moaning.

      Fekt!

      Mirlvyn


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      Message: 4
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:14:02 +0100
      From: "Dusan Papousek" <Papousek@...>
      Subject: Re: vegetacni upravy

      There is a firm whose business name is "Vegetacni upravy Decin", which
      I
      translated (right or wrong) as "Vegetation treatments Decin". I found
      on
      google that "vegetation treatment/treatments" is a frequently used
      term
      describing activities in Canada, US, etc., similar or the same to
      those of
      that Czech firm. The firm uses e.g. lawn mowers (walk-behind mowers,
      self-propelled movers, moving mowers), chippers, brush cutters,
      hydroseeding
      equipment, etc., to cut grass in parks or private gardens, for amenity
      planting in the city areas, seeding plants, treating areas at the
      newly
      built gasoline stations or along the river banks, cutting trees, etc.
      As far
      as I know, they never do large scale treatments such as e.g. forest
      plantation.

      There is another Czech word related to these activities, namely
      "ozeleneni",
      which I do not like very much and try to avoid its translation as
      "greening", but sometimes it's not quite possible.

      Another related problem: How to translate "Vyssi zahradnicka skola" -
      Higher
      Vocational School for Horticulture?


      D. P.

      Original message:

      From: "PSS Praha - Coilin O' Connor" <coilin.oconnor@...>
      Subject: HELP TERM: Vegetacni upravy

      Hi there folks!

      Have any of you ever come across the term "vegetacni upravy" as a
      "predmet
      podnikani".

      I think in involves planting trees, grass on road islands etc.

      I´ve got a "google rating" of 82 for "vegetative landscaping" and most
      of
      these hits seem to involve quite respectable, albeit American,
      planning
      documents.

      However, I find the expression rather ugly and I was wondering if
      anyone
      knows of any other terms for this activity that are also widely used
      but
      "sound" nicer.






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      Message: 5
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:18:42 +0100
      From: Tomáa Skront <skront@...>
      Subject: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      Mozna je nejvyssi cas zajit k usnimu. Ja jsem videl prvni pulhodinu a
      myslel
      jsem, ze jde o francouzsky film, ktery kvuli vyssi prodejnosti
      natocili v
      anglickem zneni. Kdyz jsem se podival do programu a zjistil, ze jde o
      film
      australsky, tak jsem byl v soku. Myslim, ze francouzsky a cesky akcent
      jsou
      si podobni, jako ceska vyslovnost moje nebo tvoje a herecky Chantal
      Poullaine. Skoro k neroznani ze?

      Tomas
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Petr Adamek <padamek@...>
      To: Czechlist <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 12:02 PM
      Subject: [Czechlist] CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost


      > Vcera jsem si uprostred deje zapnul v televizi film Kaktus (anglicke
      zneni
      s
      > titulky). Podle akcentu bych se byl vsadil, ze hlavni postavu hraje
      ceska
      > emigrantka, protoze zatim jsem cesky akcent vzdycky rozeznal.
      Pozdeji jsem
      > ale ku svemu udivu zjistil, ze to byla Isabelle Huppert(ova). Je
      francouzsky
      > akcent v anglictine tak podobny ceskemu?
      > Petr
      >
      >


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      Message: 6
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:37:17 +0100
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      Exactement. I´ll never forget the good British paratrooper in Hallo
      hallo. The funny thing is, he was British, was supposed to be speaking
      poor French, and the outcome was exactly the same... :-)

      Cheers!
      Martin
      Mais non! Ebys mlevil spwavne Frenglish, mesis vynechat vsochny 'h',
      poezivat vedne 'r', dat pwizvuk na spetnou slebiku a nejek zkreslit
      vsochny semohlesky, nepr: Good Morning = Gird Moaning.

      Fekt!

      Mirlvyn







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      Message: 7
      Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:47:26 -0000
      From: barendregt@...
      Subject: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.

      --- In Czechlist@y..., "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@q...> wrote:

      > Even if the demise of the nation state never comes to pass, we
      could still
      > refer to the Czech Republic as 'Bohemia and Moravia', on the model
      of
      > 'Trinidad and Tobago' and 'England and Wales'...and 'Sodom and
      Gomorrah'.

      Simon,

      I am afraid 'Bohemia and Moravia' won't fly because it immediately
      makes one think of the Nazi-imposed 'Bohmen u. Mahren' deal. Besides,
      Silesians would probably scream anyway.

      On the linguistic level, it makes a good deal of sense. And I would
      also love to see the historic names of regions come back to life. I
      would certainly prefer to say I am from Bohemia as opposed to the
      Czech Republic. After all, I lived some 24 years in Bohemia but only
      a year or so in the Czech Republic!

      Come to think of it, I lived most of my life in Sudetenland...:-0

      Tom


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      Message: 8
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:41:41 +0100
      From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost


      >
      > Mais non! Ebys mlevil spwavne Frenglish, mesis vynechat vsochny 'h',
      > poezivat vedne 'r', dat pwizvuk na spetnou slebiku a nejek zkreslit
      > vsochny semohlesky, nepr: Good Morning = Gird Moaning.

      Oui,

      ja souchlasila kompletment! Mais nemasch prrrravdu s tim neemym "h",
      some
      French go as far as to put the h into english words where it has
      nothing to
      do and over-pronounce it....one engineer I interpreted for would
      repeatedlysay "You have to kick their HHHass, non?" when swearing
      about bad
      workmanship of some subcontractor or other......

      Another of my favorites from that client was "tzatz vantz to say",
      took me a
      while before I figured out that it was just a translation of "ca-veut
      dir"....

      As Jean-Claude, the French fighter pilot says: I am Jean-Claude, the
      Frentsch fighter pilo, and when I go down, I go down in flames....
      I might treat you to my best anglo/french joke on Thu

      Matej



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      Message: 9
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:50:23 +0100
      From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
      Subject: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.

      >
      > Even if the demise of the nation state never comes to pass, we could
      still
      > refer to the Czech Republic as 'Bohemia and Moravia', on the model
      of
      > 'Trinidad and Tobago' and 'England and Wales'...and 'Sodom and
      Gomorrah'.

      Kurna chlapi, a co Slezko? Vy v te Praze zase neco rozhodujete bez
      nas,
      Ostravaku...:)

      I like England and Wales very much, but do you think it would be used
      the
      same way by BBC sports announcers as GB today is (e.g. when a Welshman
      wins
      it's ...and Great Britain wins, when an Englishman wins, England wins,
      but
      if a Welsham loses, it's Wales loses and when an Englishman loses,
      it's
      Great Britain loses)?

      Matej



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      Message: 10
      Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 14:23:32 -0000
      From: zehrovak@...
      Subject: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost

      --- In Czechlist@y..., "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@m...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > Mais non! Ebys mlevil spwavne Frenglish, mesis vynechat vsochny
      'h',
      > > poezivat vedne 'r', dat pwizvuk na spetnou slebiku a nejek
      zkreslit
      > > vsochny semohlesky, nepr: Good Morning = Gird Moaning.
      >
      > Oui,
      >
      > ja souchlasila kompletment! Mais nemasch prrrravdu s tim neemym "h",
      some
      > French go as far as to put the h into english words where it has
      nothing to
      > do and over-pronounce it....one engineer I interpreted for would
      > repeatedlysay "You have to kick their HHHass, non?"

      But yes, zis is ze famous, 'ow you say, hovERcompensatION. I ev eard
      it said zet ze Czechettes miss out ze v before ze o, even when eet
      belongs before ze o: par example - ty ole.

      >
      > Another of my favorites from that client was "tzatz vantz to say",
      took me a
      > while before I figured out that it was just a translation of
      "ca-veut
      > dir"....

      Reminds me of the classic mistake when students confuse 'I mean' for
      'I think' - I've never figured out what this error is based on.
      >

      > I might treat you to my best anglo/french joke on Thu
      >

      NOT the one about the regrettable confusion over the dead Frenchwoman
      and the living Englishwoman, I hope.

      M.


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      Message: 11
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:21:53 +0100
      From: "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: CHAT: Film "Kaktus" a vyslovnost


      >
      > Reminds me of the classic mistake when students confuse 'I mean' for
      > 'I think' - I've never figured out what this error is based on.
      > >

      Why, that's simple,

      "I never meant it like that" (for example) translates as "nemyslel
      jsem to
      takhle"

      So in a beginner's mind, to mean equals myslet, eventhough myslet in
      the
      above sentence in Czech is not the same myslet as in to think, but it
      reads
      the same.......


      > NOT the one about the regrettable confusion over the dead
      Frenchwoman
      > and the living Englishwoman, I hope.

      No, there's only frenchwomen (or any women, actually), and they are
      all
      alive and well, verri vell, as Jean Claude would insist, I'm sure..

      M




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      Message: 12
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:26:29 +0100
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      Subject: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.

      How about "Small Britain"? :-)
      Martin


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      Message: 13
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:26:51 +0100
      From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
      Subject: Re: TERM: Compounded fee

      takze je to vlastne pokuta? Pak mne napadá "pokuta vcetne poplatku z
      prodleni"

      Cheers!
      Martin
      Context: 'An option that specifies whether the system assesses a fee
      on unpaid delinquency fees that were previously generated.'

      Thanks,
      Tom





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      Message: 14
      Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:17:40 +0100
      From: "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...>
      Subject: Re: Czech-ia, -lands....etc.

      > How about "Small Britain"? :-)

      Ooh! Trouble is, 'Small Britain', or rather 'Little Britain', refers
      to
      Brittany in France.

      Simon
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