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Re: TERM: Cizi zdroje

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  • melvyn.geo
    ... Hmmm. Not that I claim to be an expert in the arcana of Czech accounting procedures or anything, but I would be careful on this point. Robert Mladek has a
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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      --- In Czechlist@y..., Tomás Skront <skront@m...> wrote:
      > I go for, as you nicely said, plain "liabilities", while translating
      > subcategories as follows: reserves,

      Hmmm. Not that I claim to be an expert in the arcana of Czech
      accounting procedures or anything, but I would be careful on this
      point. Robert Mladek has a very useful page which goes into the
      differences of the various accounting systems at:

      www.gaap-cz.com/GAAP-cz/English/articles/Czech-Balance-Sheet.htm

      He points out the following:

      080 Rezervy: Provisions; subtotal of 081 + 082 + 083)

      This item contains both provisions (liabilities) and allowances
      (contra assets). The reason is that Czech accounting does not
      recognize allowances and does not allow a contra-line item treatment
      for these items.

      Note: there is also a semantic problem. Since the Czech word
      "rezervy" is often erroneously
      translated into English as "reserves," it makes it appear that this
      is an equity item whereas,
      in fact, it is a liability.


      Note also:
      ---------------
      071 Fondy ze zisku: Reserves (subtotal of 072 + 073 + 074)

      Unfortunately, the Czech term "fondy" is usually translated into
      English as "funds" so the word-for-word translation of this item is
      often "funds from profits."

      This, since fondy are actually reserves (appropriated retained
      earnings) not funds (restricted assets), is merely a translation
      error. Thus, whenever the term "funds" in a translation seems to be
      referring to an equity account, the translator simply made an error.

      M.
    • Tomás Skront
      As always, several contradictory sources may be referred to. With respect to Mr Mladek, I do no consider reserves as erroneuos translation of rezervy . He
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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        As always, several contradictory sources may be referred to. With respect to
        Mr Mladek, I do no consider "reserves" as erroneuos translation of
        "rezervy". He points out that "it makes it appear that this is an equity
        item whereas, in fact, it is a liability", but "provisions" does not seem to
        solve the problem (or does it?).

        As for those contradictions, you always refer to the Mladek´s page. It might
        be helpful and I would need more time to study all the articles published.
        As for me, I usually refer to the Longman Dictionary of Business English by
        J. H. Adam who gives a nice comparison of "provisions" and "reserves" as
        follows:
        "provision": rezervy, financni zajisteni
        "provisions": zasoby (potravin)
        "reserves": rezervy (castky, ktere podnik vycleni ze zisku, aby mohl celit
        nepredvidanym udalostem, neocekavanym budoucim vydajum nebo aby mohl pozdeji
        investovat. Jsou dva druhy rezerv: revenue reserves - prijmove rezervy,
        ktere jsou dobrovolne a ktere lze pozdeji vyplatit jako dividendy, a capital
        reserves - kapitalove rezervy, ktere podle zakona nelze rozdelit jako
        dividendy, az na vyjimecne pripady, o nichz rozhoduje soud.)
        I guess these contradictions are impossible to be resolved until the Czech
        accounting standards are fully compatible with the international ones. But
        maybe some other members will help to solve this issue.

        As for Jamie´s contribution. I would always take into consideration the
        context in which "cizi zdroje" are used. If they are used as opposition to
        "vnitrni zdroje (financovani)", I would prefer external funds as well.
        However, then translating the Balance Sheet, I will go on translating "cizi
        zdroje" as plain "liabilities", with regard to the common practise that you
        can check with the Financial Times and their web page (there are annual
        reports available there free of charge).

        Regards,
        Tomas
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@...>
        To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:05 PM
        Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERM: Cizi zdroje


        --- In Czechlist@y..., Tomás Skront <skront@m...> wrote:
        > I go for, as you nicely said, plain "liabilities", while translating
        > subcategories as follows: reserves,

        Hmmm. Not that I claim to be an expert in the arcana of Czech
        accounting procedures or anything, but I would be careful on this
        point. Robert Mladek has a very useful page which goes into the
        differences of the various accounting systems at:

        www.gaap-cz.com/GAAP-cz/English/articles/Czech-Balance-Sheet.htm

        He points out the following:

        080 Rezervy: Provisions; subtotal of 081 + 082 + 083)

        This item contains both provisions (liabilities) and allowances
        (contra assets). The reason is that Czech accounting does not
        recognize allowances and does not allow a contra-line item treatment
        for these items.

        Note: there is also a semantic problem. Since the Czech word
        "rezervy" is often erroneously
        translated into English as "reserves," it makes it appear that this
        is an equity item whereas,
        in fact, it is a liability.


        Note also:
        ---------------
        071 Fondy ze zisku: Reserves (subtotal of 072 + 073 + 074)

        Unfortunately, the Czech term "fondy" is usually translated into
        English as "funds" so the word-for-word translation of this item is
        often "funds from profits."

        This, since fondy are actually reserves (appropriated retained
        earnings) not funds (restricted assets), is merely a translation
        error. Thus, whenever the term "funds" in a translation seems to be
        referring to an equity account, the translator simply made an error.

        M.






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      • Vollams
        Hi Melvyn, I ve been meaning to comment on your query for a while, but haven t had much free time recently. I have in front of me the 2000 Annual Report of one
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 11, 2001
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          Hi Melvyn,

          I've been meaning to comment on your query for a while, but haven't had much
          free time recently.

          I have in front of me the 2000 Annual Report of one of the Czech electricity
          generating companies. The balance sheet, drawn up and translated by
          PricewaterhouseCoopers Audit (nice name!), gives "Total Liabilities and
          Equity" for "Pasiva celkem" and just "Liabilities" for "Cizi zdroje".
          Presumably these guys know their accounting onions. BTW they, too, translate
          "rezervy" as "provisions".

          Meanwhile, the rather neat Appendix A6 to the Fraus hospodarsky slovnik
          suggests "Total Liabilities" and "Liabilities" respectively. Here "rezervy"
          are rendered as "reserves".

          As others have pointed out, these Czech terms do not correspond exactly to
          the similar terms in international accounting (IAS), which is of course why
          the problems with translation arise in the first place. To make them
          absolutely clear to an accountant with no knowledge of the Czech system
          (CAS), one would obviously have to enumerate the sub-items in a translator's
          note or in some other way. It all depends on the context, as usual.

          Mladek is well-qualified to point out the differences between CAS and IAS. I
          for one wouldn't care to dispute any of his claims. However, I'm not sure
          that the translations he suggests are entirely accepted in general practice,
          even by his accounting chums.

          Things should get much easier when the powers that be finally get round to
          aligning CAS with IAS. Maybe.

          Simon



          > Hullo chums,
          >
          > I'll take advantage of this quiet moment on Czechlist to ask something
          > I've been meaning to ask for a while now. How do you normally handle
          > this Czech accounting category - cizi zdroje, which bundles together
          > provisions (rezervy), long-term liabilities (dlouhodobe zavazky),
          > current liabilities (kratkodobe zavazky) and 'bank and other loans'
          > (bankovni uvery a vypomoci)? Robert Mladek suggests "outside sources
          > (of capital)" and I have also seen "external sources" and a rather
          > misleading "other liabilities" or just plain "liabilities". I'd be
          > interested to hear your thoughts.
          >
          > Melvyn
        • Michael Grant
          ... Sorry to come into this a little late; I haven t had much time for mailing lists recently. I m not sure what you mean by ordinary liabilities , but if
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 11, 2001
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            On 12/6/01 5:37 AM, "JPKIRCHNER@..." <JPKIRCHNER@...> wrote:

            > Not all funds from cizi zdroje are liabilities, or at least not orndinary
            > liabilities. His equivalents "funds from external sources" or "funds from
            > outside sources" are more accurate, and sound equally acceptable to me.
            > "External funds" would also be fine.

            Sorry to come into this a little late; I haven't had much time for mailing
            lists recently. I'm not sure what you mean by "ordinary liabilities", but if
            they're on the books at all and they're not assets or equity, then they're
            liabilities, and that's the term I use unless I have a very good reason not
            to. Although there are some discrepancies regarding exactly what funds are
            "cizi", conceptually "cizi zdroje" in Melvyn's context corresponds
            completely with the general category of "liabilities".

            Michael

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          • melvyn.geo
            Many thanks to Michael, Simon, Tomas and Jamie for your input on cizi zdroje . It s useful to see how others deal with this problem. Total Liabilities and
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 13, 2001
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              Many thanks to Michael, Simon, Tomas and Jamie for your input on 'cizi
              zdroje'. It's useful to see how others deal with this problem. "Total
              Liabilities and Equity" for "pasiva celkem" and just "liabilities" for
              'cizi zdroje' suddenly seems very fair and reasonable to me.

              Tomas S. wrote:

              >As always, several contradictory sources may be referred to. With
              >respect to Mr Mladek, I do no consider "reserves" as erroneuos
              >translation of "rezervy". He points out that "it makes it appear that
              >this is an equity item whereas, in fact, it is a liability", but
              >"provisions" does not seem to solve the problem (or does it?).

              I think the fact that 'reserves' might be confused with another item
              in the balance sheet is the more awkward problem. At least
              'provisions' is not ambiguous in that way IMHO. 'Provisions' can
              certainly mean 'zasoby (potravin)' as you say but, believe me, this is
              much more likely to refer to the contents of a larder than to an
              accounting class.

              But yes, I take your point, Tomas, Mr Mladek is by no means
              linguistically infallible (see 'aktivace' in archives) and there are
              alternative solutions. Mladek himself often uses 'allowances' to cover
              all 'rezervy' in his Svetove ucetnictvi, as does Jiri Vysusil in his
              'Ceske a americke ucetnictvi', but I'm sure that creates other
              problems of potential confusion in some contexts too - you cannot move
              a pawn a single square without dire consequences down the line for all
              your other pieces -- do you ever get the feeling that translation work
              is like a chess-game played blindfold with Fate? :)


              Melvyn
            • robert.mladek
              Better late than never. I just ran into this discussion and (six years too late) felt an irresistible need to respond. First, Czech Rezervy are English
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 3, 2007
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                Better late than never.

                I just ran into this discussion and (six years too late) felt an
                irresistible need to respond.

                First, Czech Rezervy are English Provisions.

                Translating it as reserves is simply wrong and anyone who claims
                otherwise has little or no accounting knowledge.

                Second, the web page in question www.gaap.cz has been up and running
                since 1999, and has become the place to discuss US GAAP and IFRS in
                the Czech language.

                Finally, since we're on the subject, Czech Fondy ze zisky are English
                Reserves (or properly Appropriated Retained Earnings).

                Czech Opravné položky are English Allowances.

                Since there is no exact equivalent for English Funds (or properly,
                Restricted Assets) in the Czech language, this term cannot be
                translated, but must be explained.

                P.S. As to the Longman dictionary, as with most things from this
                publisher, it's simply a waste of trees.

                Mladek


                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Tomás Skront <skront@...> wrote:
                >
                > As always, several contradictory sources may be referred to. With
                respect to
                > Mr Mladek, I do no consider "reserves" as erroneuos translation of
                > "rezervy". He points out that "it makes it appear that this is an equity
                > item whereas, in fact, it is a liability", but "provisions" does not
                seem to
                > solve the problem (or does it?).
                >
                > As for those contradictions, you always refer to the Mladek´s page.
                It might
                > be helpful and I would need more time to study all the articles
                published.
                > As for me, I usually refer to the Longman Dictionary of Business
                English by
                > J. H. Adam who gives a nice comparison of "provisions" and "reserves" as
                > follows:
                > "provision": rezervy, financni zajisteni
                > "provisions": zasoby (potravin)
                > "reserves": rezervy (castky, ktere podnik vycleni ze zisku, aby mohl
                celit
                > nepredvidanym udalostem, neocekavanym budoucim vydajum nebo aby mohl
                pozdeji
                > investovat. Jsou dva druhy rezerv: revenue reserves - prijmove rezervy,
                > ktere jsou dobrovolne a ktere lze pozdeji vyplatit jako dividendy, a
                capital
                > reserves - kapitalove rezervy, ktere podle zakona nelze rozdelit jako
                > dividendy, az na vyjimecne pripady, o nichz rozhoduje soud.)
                > I guess these contradictions are impossible to be resolved until the
                Czech
                > accounting standards are fully compatible with the international
                ones. But
                > maybe some other members will help to solve this issue.
                >
                > As for Jamie´s contribution. I would always take into consideration the
                > context in which "cizi zdroje" are used. If they are used as
                opposition to
                > "vnitrni zdroje (financovani)", I would prefer external funds as well.
                > However, then translating the Balance Sheet, I will go on
                translating "cizi
                > zdroje" as plain "liabilities", with regard to the common practise
                that you
                > can check with the Financial Times and their web page (there are annual
                > reports available there free of charge).
                >
                > Regards,
                > Tomas
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@...>
                > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:05 PM
                > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERM: Cizi zdroje
                >
                >
                > --- In Czechlist@y..., Tomás Skront <skront@m...> wrote:
                > > I go for, as you nicely said, plain "liabilities", while translating
                > > subcategories as follows: reserves,
                >
                > Hmmm. Not that I claim to be an expert in the arcana of Czech
                > accounting procedures or anything, but I would be careful on this
                > point. Robert Mladek has a very useful page which goes into the
                > differences of the various accounting systems at:
                >
                > www.gaap-cz.com/GAAP-cz/English/articles/Czech-Balance-Sheet.htm
                >
                > He points out the following:
                >
                > 080 Rezervy: Provisions; subtotal of 081 + 082 + 083)
                >
                > This item contains both provisions (liabilities) and allowances
                > (contra assets). The reason is that Czech accounting does not
                > recognize allowances and does not allow a contra-line item treatment
                > for these items.
                >
                > Note: there is also a semantic problem. Since the Czech word
                > "rezervy" is often erroneously
                > translated into English as "reserves," it makes it appear that this
                > is an equity item whereas,
                > in fact, it is a liability.
                >
                >
                > Note also:
                > ---------------
                > 071 Fondy ze zisku: Reserves (subtotal of 072 + 073 + 074)
                >
                > Unfortunately, the Czech term "fondy" is usually translated into
                > English as "funds" so the word-for-word translation of this item is
                > often "funds from profits."
                >
                > This, since fondy are actually reserves (appropriated retained
                > earnings) not funds (restricted assets), is merely a translation
                > error. Thus, whenever the term "funds" in a translation seems to be
                > referring to an equity account, the translator simply made an error.
                >
                > M.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Czechlist: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
                > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
              • Jirka Bolech
                ... I don t recall the original thread, but to me accounting is like a foreign language within a language where a lot of words take new meanings, whether in
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 3, 2007
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                  Robert Mladek wrote:

                  > Better late than never...

                  I don't recall the original thread, but to me accounting is like a foreign
                  language within a language where a lot of words take new meanings, whether
                  in English or Czech. I first encountered Robert's book, Svetove ucetnictvi,
                  in 2000 and it has been the best resource of accounting terms for me since
                  then. Thank you, Robert, for your terrific work...

                  Jirka Bolech
                • robert.mladek
                  You re welcome. I m glad you liked it. BTW, I ve published several editions. The latest two are available online (free of charge) at www.gaap.cz. ... foreign
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 6, 2007
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                    You're welcome. I'm glad you liked it.

                    BTW, I've published several editions.

                    The latest two are available online (free of charge) at www.gaap.cz.

                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Robert Mladek wrote:
                    >
                    > > Better late than never...
                    >
                    > I don't recall the original thread, but to me accounting is like a
                    foreign
                    > language within a language where a lot of words take new meanings,
                    whether
                    > in English or Czech. I first encountered Robert's book, Svetove
                    ucetnictvi,
                    > in 2000 and it has been the best resource of accounting terms for me
                    since
                    > then. Thank you, Robert, for your terrific work...
                    >
                    > Jirka Bolech
                    >
                  • Jirka Bolech
                    ... I know. Great job! Jirka Bolech ... foreign ... whether ... ucetnictvi, ... since ... Translators tricks of the trade: http://czeng.wetpaint.com/ Yahoo!
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
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                      > The latest two are available online (free of charge) at www.gaap.cz.

                      I know. Great job!

                      Jirka Bolech







                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Robert Mladek wrote:
                      >
                      > > Better late than never...
                      >
                      > I don't recall the original thread, but to me accounting is like a
                      foreign
                      > language within a language where a lot of words take new meanings,
                      whether
                      > in English or Czech. I first encountered Robert's book, Svetove
                      ucetnictvi,
                      > in 2000 and it has been the best resource of accounting terms for me
                      since
                      > then. Thank you, Robert, for your terrific work...
                      >
                      > Jirka Bolech
                      >




                      Translators' tricks of the trade:
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