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TERM: Cizi zdroje

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  • melvyn.geo
    Hullo chums, I ll take advantage of this quiet moment on Czechlist to ask something I ve been meaning to ask for a while now. How do you normally handle this
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 5, 2001
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      Hullo chums,

      I'll take advantage of this quiet moment on Czechlist to ask something
      I've been meaning to ask for a while now. How do you normally handle
      this Czech accounting category - cizi zdroje, which bundles together
      provisions (rezervy), long-term liabilities (dlouhodobe zavazky),
      current liabilities (kratkodobe zavazky) and 'bank and other loans'
      (bankovni uvery a vypomoci)? Robert Mladek suggests "outside sources
      (of capital)" and I have also seen "external sources" and a rather
      misleading "other liabilities" or just plain "liabilities". I'd be
      interested to hear your thoughts.

      Melvyn

      P.S. I see that some of the little devils roaming the streets this
      year have flashing horns on their heads. Gracious me, they get more
      devil-like with every year that passes...
    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
      ... Not all funds from cizi zdroje are liabilities, or at least not orndinary liabilities. His equivalents funds from external sources or funds from
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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        In a message dated 12/6/01 3:39:19 AM, skront@... writes:

        >I go for, as you nicely said, plain "liabilities", while translating
        >subcategories as follows: reserves, long-term payables, short-term payables
        >and bank loans (sometimes bank loans and other financial assistance).

        Not all funds from cizi zdroje are liabilities, or at least not orndinary
        liabilities. His equivalents "funds from external sources" or "funds from
        outside sources" are more accurate, and sound equally acceptable to me.
        "External funds" would also be fine.

        Here is an entry from Barron's Finance & Investment Handbook:

        "EXTERNAL FUNDS: Funds brought in from outside the corporation, perhaps in
        the form of a bank loan, or the proceeds from a bond offering, or an infusion
        of cash from venture capitalists. External funds supplement internally
        generated cash flow and are used for expansion, as well as for seasonal
        working capital needs."

        Jamie
      • melvyn.geo
        ... Hmmm. Not that I claim to be an expert in the arcana of Czech accounting procedures or anything, but I would be careful on this point. Robert Mladek has a
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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          --- In Czechlist@y..., Tomás Skront <skront@m...> wrote:
          > I go for, as you nicely said, plain "liabilities", while translating
          > subcategories as follows: reserves,

          Hmmm. Not that I claim to be an expert in the arcana of Czech
          accounting procedures or anything, but I would be careful on this
          point. Robert Mladek has a very useful page which goes into the
          differences of the various accounting systems at:

          www.gaap-cz.com/GAAP-cz/English/articles/Czech-Balance-Sheet.htm

          He points out the following:

          080 Rezervy: Provisions; subtotal of 081 + 082 + 083)

          This item contains both provisions (liabilities) and allowances
          (contra assets). The reason is that Czech accounting does not
          recognize allowances and does not allow a contra-line item treatment
          for these items.

          Note: there is also a semantic problem. Since the Czech word
          "rezervy" is often erroneously
          translated into English as "reserves," it makes it appear that this
          is an equity item whereas,
          in fact, it is a liability.


          Note also:
          ---------------
          071 Fondy ze zisku: Reserves (subtotal of 072 + 073 + 074)

          Unfortunately, the Czech term "fondy" is usually translated into
          English as "funds" so the word-for-word translation of this item is
          often "funds from profits."

          This, since fondy are actually reserves (appropriated retained
          earnings) not funds (restricted assets), is merely a translation
          error. Thus, whenever the term "funds" in a translation seems to be
          referring to an equity account, the translator simply made an error.

          M.
        • Tomás Skront
          I go for, as you nicely said, plain liabilities , while translating subcategories as follows: reserves, long-term payables, short-term payables and bank loans
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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            I go for, as you nicely said, plain "liabilities", while translating
            subcategories as follows: reserves, long-term payables, short-term payables
            and bank loans (sometimes bank loans and other financial assistance).

            Regards,

            Tomas Skront
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@...>
            To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:28 PM
            Subject: [Czechlist] TERM: Cizi zdroje


            > Hullo chums,
            >
            > I'll take advantage of this quiet moment on Czechlist to ask something
            > I've been meaning to ask for a while now. How do you normally handle
            > this Czech accounting category - cizi zdroje, which bundles together
            > provisions (rezervy), long-term liabilities (dlouhodobe zavazky),
            > current liabilities (kratkodobe zavazky) and 'bank and other loans'
            > (bankovni uvery a vypomoci)? Robert Mladek suggests "outside sources
            > (of capital)" and I have also seen "external sources" and a rather
            > misleading "other liabilities" or just plain "liabilities". I'd be
            > interested to hear your thoughts.
            >
            > Melvyn
            >
            > P.S. I see that some of the little devils roaming the streets this
            > year have flashing horns on their heads. Gracious me, they get more
            > devil-like with every year that passes...
            >
            >
            > Czechlist: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
            > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Tomás Skront
            As always, several contradictory sources may be referred to. With respect to Mr Mladek, I do no consider reserves as erroneuos translation of rezervy . He
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 6, 2001
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              As always, several contradictory sources may be referred to. With respect to
              Mr Mladek, I do no consider "reserves" as erroneuos translation of
              "rezervy". He points out that "it makes it appear that this is an equity
              item whereas, in fact, it is a liability", but "provisions" does not seem to
              solve the problem (or does it?).

              As for those contradictions, you always refer to the Mladek´s page. It might
              be helpful and I would need more time to study all the articles published.
              As for me, I usually refer to the Longman Dictionary of Business English by
              J. H. Adam who gives a nice comparison of "provisions" and "reserves" as
              follows:
              "provision": rezervy, financni zajisteni
              "provisions": zasoby (potravin)
              "reserves": rezervy (castky, ktere podnik vycleni ze zisku, aby mohl celit
              nepredvidanym udalostem, neocekavanym budoucim vydajum nebo aby mohl pozdeji
              investovat. Jsou dva druhy rezerv: revenue reserves - prijmove rezervy,
              ktere jsou dobrovolne a ktere lze pozdeji vyplatit jako dividendy, a capital
              reserves - kapitalove rezervy, ktere podle zakona nelze rozdelit jako
              dividendy, az na vyjimecne pripady, o nichz rozhoduje soud.)
              I guess these contradictions are impossible to be resolved until the Czech
              accounting standards are fully compatible with the international ones. But
              maybe some other members will help to solve this issue.

              As for Jamie´s contribution. I would always take into consideration the
              context in which "cizi zdroje" are used. If they are used as opposition to
              "vnitrni zdroje (financovani)", I would prefer external funds as well.
              However, then translating the Balance Sheet, I will go on translating "cizi
              zdroje" as plain "liabilities", with regard to the common practise that you
              can check with the Financial Times and their web page (there are annual
              reports available there free of charge).

              Regards,
              Tomas
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@...>
              To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:05 PM
              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERM: Cizi zdroje


              --- In Czechlist@y..., Tomás Skront <skront@m...> wrote:
              > I go for, as you nicely said, plain "liabilities", while translating
              > subcategories as follows: reserves,

              Hmmm. Not that I claim to be an expert in the arcana of Czech
              accounting procedures or anything, but I would be careful on this
              point. Robert Mladek has a very useful page which goes into the
              differences of the various accounting systems at:

              www.gaap-cz.com/GAAP-cz/English/articles/Czech-Balance-Sheet.htm

              He points out the following:

              080 Rezervy: Provisions; subtotal of 081 + 082 + 083)

              This item contains both provisions (liabilities) and allowances
              (contra assets). The reason is that Czech accounting does not
              recognize allowances and does not allow a contra-line item treatment
              for these items.

              Note: there is also a semantic problem. Since the Czech word
              "rezervy" is often erroneously
              translated into English as "reserves," it makes it appear that this
              is an equity item whereas,
              in fact, it is a liability.


              Note also:
              ---------------
              071 Fondy ze zisku: Reserves (subtotal of 072 + 073 + 074)

              Unfortunately, the Czech term "fondy" is usually translated into
              English as "funds" so the word-for-word translation of this item is
              often "funds from profits."

              This, since fondy are actually reserves (appropriated retained
              earnings) not funds (restricted assets), is merely a translation
              error. Thus, whenever the term "funds" in a translation seems to be
              referring to an equity account, the translator simply made an error.

              M.






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            • Vollams
              Hi Melvyn, I ve been meaning to comment on your query for a while, but haven t had much free time recently. I have in front of me the 2000 Annual Report of one
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 11, 2001
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                Hi Melvyn,

                I've been meaning to comment on your query for a while, but haven't had much
                free time recently.

                I have in front of me the 2000 Annual Report of one of the Czech electricity
                generating companies. The balance sheet, drawn up and translated by
                PricewaterhouseCoopers Audit (nice name!), gives "Total Liabilities and
                Equity" for "Pasiva celkem" and just "Liabilities" for "Cizi zdroje".
                Presumably these guys know their accounting onions. BTW they, too, translate
                "rezervy" as "provisions".

                Meanwhile, the rather neat Appendix A6 to the Fraus hospodarsky slovnik
                suggests "Total Liabilities" and "Liabilities" respectively. Here "rezervy"
                are rendered as "reserves".

                As others have pointed out, these Czech terms do not correspond exactly to
                the similar terms in international accounting (IAS), which is of course why
                the problems with translation arise in the first place. To make them
                absolutely clear to an accountant with no knowledge of the Czech system
                (CAS), one would obviously have to enumerate the sub-items in a translator's
                note or in some other way. It all depends on the context, as usual.

                Mladek is well-qualified to point out the differences between CAS and IAS. I
                for one wouldn't care to dispute any of his claims. However, I'm not sure
                that the translations he suggests are entirely accepted in general practice,
                even by his accounting chums.

                Things should get much easier when the powers that be finally get round to
                aligning CAS with IAS. Maybe.

                Simon



                > Hullo chums,
                >
                > I'll take advantage of this quiet moment on Czechlist to ask something
                > I've been meaning to ask for a while now. How do you normally handle
                > this Czech accounting category - cizi zdroje, which bundles together
                > provisions (rezervy), long-term liabilities (dlouhodobe zavazky),
                > current liabilities (kratkodobe zavazky) and 'bank and other loans'
                > (bankovni uvery a vypomoci)? Robert Mladek suggests "outside sources
                > (of capital)" and I have also seen "external sources" and a rather
                > misleading "other liabilities" or just plain "liabilities". I'd be
                > interested to hear your thoughts.
                >
                > Melvyn
              • Michael Grant
                ... Sorry to come into this a little late; I haven t had much time for mailing lists recently. I m not sure what you mean by ordinary liabilities , but if
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 11, 2001
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                  On 12/6/01 5:37 AM, "JPKIRCHNER@..." <JPKIRCHNER@...> wrote:

                  > Not all funds from cizi zdroje are liabilities, or at least not orndinary
                  > liabilities. His equivalents "funds from external sources" or "funds from
                  > outside sources" are more accurate, and sound equally acceptable to me.
                  > "External funds" would also be fine.

                  Sorry to come into this a little late; I haven't had much time for mailing
                  lists recently. I'm not sure what you mean by "ordinary liabilities", but if
                  they're on the books at all and they're not assets or equity, then they're
                  liabilities, and that's the term I use unless I have a very good reason not
                  to. Although there are some discrepancies regarding exactly what funds are
                  "cizi", conceptually "cizi zdroje" in Melvyn's context corresponds
                  completely with the general category of "liabilities".

                  Michael

                  --
                  BLUE DANUBE international communication services
                  The Central and East European Language Source!
                  <http://www.bdanube.com>, <mailto:bdanube@...>
                  Tel. (+1-512) 336-8911, Fax (+1-512) 336-8954
                • melvyn.geo
                  Many thanks to Michael, Simon, Tomas and Jamie for your input on cizi zdroje . It s useful to see how others deal with this problem. Total Liabilities and
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 13, 2001
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                    Many thanks to Michael, Simon, Tomas and Jamie for your input on 'cizi
                    zdroje'. It's useful to see how others deal with this problem. "Total
                    Liabilities and Equity" for "pasiva celkem" and just "liabilities" for
                    'cizi zdroje' suddenly seems very fair and reasonable to me.

                    Tomas S. wrote:

                    >As always, several contradictory sources may be referred to. With
                    >respect to Mr Mladek, I do no consider "reserves" as erroneuos
                    >translation of "rezervy". He points out that "it makes it appear that
                    >this is an equity item whereas, in fact, it is a liability", but
                    >"provisions" does not seem to solve the problem (or does it?).

                    I think the fact that 'reserves' might be confused with another item
                    in the balance sheet is the more awkward problem. At least
                    'provisions' is not ambiguous in that way IMHO. 'Provisions' can
                    certainly mean 'zasoby (potravin)' as you say but, believe me, this is
                    much more likely to refer to the contents of a larder than to an
                    accounting class.

                    But yes, I take your point, Tomas, Mr Mladek is by no means
                    linguistically infallible (see 'aktivace' in archives) and there are
                    alternative solutions. Mladek himself often uses 'allowances' to cover
                    all 'rezervy' in his Svetove ucetnictvi, as does Jiri Vysusil in his
                    'Ceske a americke ucetnictvi', but I'm sure that creates other
                    problems of potential confusion in some contexts too - you cannot move
                    a pawn a single square without dire consequences down the line for all
                    your other pieces -- do you ever get the feeling that translation work
                    is like a chess-game played blindfold with Fate? :)


                    Melvyn
                  • robert.mladek
                    Better late than never. I just ran into this discussion and (six years too late) felt an irresistible need to respond. First, Czech Rezervy are English
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 3, 2007
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                      Better late than never.

                      I just ran into this discussion and (six years too late) felt an
                      irresistible need to respond.

                      First, Czech Rezervy are English Provisions.

                      Translating it as reserves is simply wrong and anyone who claims
                      otherwise has little or no accounting knowledge.

                      Second, the web page in question www.gaap.cz has been up and running
                      since 1999, and has become the place to discuss US GAAP and IFRS in
                      the Czech language.

                      Finally, since we're on the subject, Czech Fondy ze zisky are English
                      Reserves (or properly Appropriated Retained Earnings).

                      Czech Opravné položky are English Allowances.

                      Since there is no exact equivalent for English Funds (or properly,
                      Restricted Assets) in the Czech language, this term cannot be
                      translated, but must be explained.

                      P.S. As to the Longman dictionary, as with most things from this
                      publisher, it's simply a waste of trees.

                      Mladek


                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Tomás Skront <skront@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > As always, several contradictory sources may be referred to. With
                      respect to
                      > Mr Mladek, I do no consider "reserves" as erroneuos translation of
                      > "rezervy". He points out that "it makes it appear that this is an equity
                      > item whereas, in fact, it is a liability", but "provisions" does not
                      seem to
                      > solve the problem (or does it?).
                      >
                      > As for those contradictions, you always refer to the Mladek´s page.
                      It might
                      > be helpful and I would need more time to study all the articles
                      published.
                      > As for me, I usually refer to the Longman Dictionary of Business
                      English by
                      > J. H. Adam who gives a nice comparison of "provisions" and "reserves" as
                      > follows:
                      > "provision": rezervy, financni zajisteni
                      > "provisions": zasoby (potravin)
                      > "reserves": rezervy (castky, ktere podnik vycleni ze zisku, aby mohl
                      celit
                      > nepredvidanym udalostem, neocekavanym budoucim vydajum nebo aby mohl
                      pozdeji
                      > investovat. Jsou dva druhy rezerv: revenue reserves - prijmove rezervy,
                      > ktere jsou dobrovolne a ktere lze pozdeji vyplatit jako dividendy, a
                      capital
                      > reserves - kapitalove rezervy, ktere podle zakona nelze rozdelit jako
                      > dividendy, az na vyjimecne pripady, o nichz rozhoduje soud.)
                      > I guess these contradictions are impossible to be resolved until the
                      Czech
                      > accounting standards are fully compatible with the international
                      ones. But
                      > maybe some other members will help to solve this issue.
                      >
                      > As for Jamie´s contribution. I would always take into consideration the
                      > context in which "cizi zdroje" are used. If they are used as
                      opposition to
                      > "vnitrni zdroje (financovani)", I would prefer external funds as well.
                      > However, then translating the Balance Sheet, I will go on
                      translating "cizi
                      > zdroje" as plain "liabilities", with regard to the common practise
                      that you
                      > can check with the Financial Times and their web page (there are annual
                      > reports available there free of charge).
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Tomas
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@...>
                      > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:05 PM
                      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERM: Cizi zdroje
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Czechlist@y..., Tomás Skront <skront@m...> wrote:
                      > > I go for, as you nicely said, plain "liabilities", while translating
                      > > subcategories as follows: reserves,
                      >
                      > Hmmm. Not that I claim to be an expert in the arcana of Czech
                      > accounting procedures or anything, but I would be careful on this
                      > point. Robert Mladek has a very useful page which goes into the
                      > differences of the various accounting systems at:
                      >
                      > www.gaap-cz.com/GAAP-cz/English/articles/Czech-Balance-Sheet.htm
                      >
                      > He points out the following:
                      >
                      > 080 Rezervy: Provisions; subtotal of 081 + 082 + 083)
                      >
                      > This item contains both provisions (liabilities) and allowances
                      > (contra assets). The reason is that Czech accounting does not
                      > recognize allowances and does not allow a contra-line item treatment
                      > for these items.
                      >
                      > Note: there is also a semantic problem. Since the Czech word
                      > "rezervy" is often erroneously
                      > translated into English as "reserves," it makes it appear that this
                      > is an equity item whereas,
                      > in fact, it is a liability.
                      >
                      >
                      > Note also:
                      > ---------------
                      > 071 Fondy ze zisku: Reserves (subtotal of 072 + 073 + 074)
                      >
                      > Unfortunately, the Czech term "fondy" is usually translated into
                      > English as "funds" so the word-for-word translation of this item is
                      > often "funds from profits."
                      >
                      > This, since fondy are actually reserves (appropriated retained
                      > earnings) not funds (restricted assets), is merely a translation
                      > error. Thus, whenever the term "funds" in a translation seems to be
                      > referring to an equity account, the translator simply made an error.
                      >
                      > M.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Czechlist: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
                      > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                    • Jirka Bolech
                      ... I don t recall the original thread, but to me accounting is like a foreign language within a language where a lot of words take new meanings, whether in
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 3, 2007
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                        Robert Mladek wrote:

                        > Better late than never...

                        I don't recall the original thread, but to me accounting is like a foreign
                        language within a language where a lot of words take new meanings, whether
                        in English or Czech. I first encountered Robert's book, Svetove ucetnictvi,
                        in 2000 and it has been the best resource of accounting terms for me since
                        then. Thank you, Robert, for your terrific work...

                        Jirka Bolech
                      • robert.mladek
                        You re welcome. I m glad you liked it. BTW, I ve published several editions. The latest two are available online (free of charge) at www.gaap.cz. ... foreign
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 6, 2007
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                          You're welcome. I'm glad you liked it.

                          BTW, I've published several editions.

                          The latest two are available online (free of charge) at www.gaap.cz.

                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Robert Mladek wrote:
                          >
                          > > Better late than never...
                          >
                          > I don't recall the original thread, but to me accounting is like a
                          foreign
                          > language within a language where a lot of words take new meanings,
                          whether
                          > in English or Czech. I first encountered Robert's book, Svetove
                          ucetnictvi,
                          > in 2000 and it has been the best resource of accounting terms for me
                          since
                          > then. Thank you, Robert, for your terrific work...
                          >
                          > Jirka Bolech
                          >
                        • Jirka Bolech
                          ... I know. Great job! Jirka Bolech ... foreign ... whether ... ucetnictvi, ... since ... Translators tricks of the trade: http://czeng.wetpaint.com/ Yahoo!
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
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                            > The latest two are available online (free of charge) at www.gaap.cz.

                            I know. Great job!

                            Jirka Bolech







                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Robert Mladek wrote:
                            >
                            > > Better late than never...
                            >
                            > I don't recall the original thread, but to me accounting is like a
                            foreign
                            > language within a language where a lot of words take new meanings,
                            whether
                            > in English or Czech. I first encountered Robert's book, Svetove
                            ucetnictvi,
                            > in 2000 and it has been the best resource of accounting terms for me
                            since
                            > then. Thank you, Robert, for your terrific work...
                            >
                            > Jirka Bolech
                            >




                            Translators' tricks of the trade:
                            http://czeng.wetpaint.com/





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