Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Czechlist] Re: translators vs. teachers

Expand Messages
  • Martin Janda
    ... Sorry for the shouting again, Vlado. The reason why I did it was at the bottom of my message. Martin
    Message 1 of 6 , May 4, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      > (No idea why Martin shouted so much 8-D)

      Sorry for the shouting again, Vlado. The reason why I did it was at the
      bottom of my message.

      Martin
    • Melvyn Clarke
      Hi Martin, ... GOT OUT OF FASHION AND NO MORE YOUNG UK/US ADVENTURERS FLOW IN. Because - as you have said to me - the schools are muddling through somehow , I
      Message 2 of 6 , May 4, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Martin,


        >HOWEVER, THERE MIGHT BE ALSO A SIMPLE FACT THAT PRAGUE
        GOT OUT OF FASHION AND NO MORE YOUNG UK/US ADVENTURERS FLOW IN.

        Because - as you have said to me - the schools are "muddling through
        somehow", I fear they are taking job applicants "from off the street" as
        they used to do in the early nineties (Vlada, Zdenek, can you confirm?).
        Result: they have a high turnover of unqualified youngsters.

        THEY STARTED TO MAKE A FUSS A LONG
        TIME BEFORE THE BILL BECAME EFFECTIVE AND BEFORE THEY KNEW WHAT THE REAL
        IMPACT WOULD BE.

        True, nobody was 100% sure of the real impact but I think the fear that the
        numbers of foreign qualified and/or experienced lectors and teachers would
        decrease has proved to be well-founded. I think the big x factor has always
        been how easy it would be to employ teachers "on the side". The language
        schools are clearly being forced into this.

        I AM NOT SURE A GOOD TRANSLATOR EQUALS A GOOD LANGUAGE TEACHER.

        Not every translator makes a good teacher, to be sure, just as not every
        language teacher makes a good translator. But I'd say that people who learn
        a language to an advanced or proficiency level must have fair social skills
        in order to practise adequately (i.e. we translators are naturally sociable
        and communicative folk as a quick glimpse of LANTRA will demonstrate,
        right?) and I suspect many of the translators on this list might just have
        these social skills plus the patience and attitude (and that touch of
        showmanship >->) that are required for the job (?).

        WITH MANY
        HOURS SPENT TYPING AT YOUR DESKTOP, YOU CAN DEVELOP A LOT OF SKILLS


        Right. The specialist knowledge is your big advantage - that is what I am
        saying

        BUT YOUR ACCENT AND FLUENCY AND ABILITY
        TO SPEAK GOES INVARIABLY DOWN

        Really? This is a new angle for me. I suspect this varies a lot. Maybe, this
        is where something like Czechlist can help. Regular feedback and
        opportunities to practise your foreign language are clearly in demand among
        translators. So where do we have our next meeting? BTW it was very enjoyable
        yesterday at U Kotvy with Rachel, Simon, Mirek (enjoy it?) and my dear
        friend Slavka. Name a time and a place next week, somebody.

        BTW I hear teachers also complain that their accuracy deteriorates, at least
        if they are teaching beginners.


        CORRECT ME IF I� M WRONG, BUT
        AS A GOOD AND SUCESSFUL TRANSLATOR, YOU CAN EARN MUCH MORE THAN WITH
        TEACHING ENGLISH.

        Actually, I find companies, banks, government organizations etc *can* pay a
        good deal more per hour for specialist teaching. If you happen to live
        nearby and travel isn't too much of a problem it could possibly work out as
        a nice little side-line. In any case, my main point here would be that the
        two kinds of work complement each other well. I think it's always useful for
        translators to get involved in some kind of related side-line, be it
        guide-work, consultation work, accompanying taxi-drivers driving rich
        Americans around Prague :) (any other ideas?)

        I WOULD NOT DARE TO TEACH (HAVE NO ATTITUDE, ACCENT,
        PATIENCE OR SKILLS).

        OK this might well be the case for some individuals.

        BTW personally, I think accent is a little overrated as a key issue in
        language teaching. You, Martin, would pass unnoticed in a London street
        because so many people sound "slightly foreign" in London, patience you can
        learn:), your corrections of my Czech seem to me to be very much to the
        point (thank you) but OK point taken
        ______________________________________________
        Hi Vladimir
        >
        >I am doing both. I have been a (now nearly)
        >full-time teacher for seven years and a nearly-full-time translator a bit
        >shorter. The two are as different as the work of a metallographer and a
        >welder;

        I do both, you do, Zdenek does - are we *really* that exceptional, Vladimir?
        Yes, they do require two very different approaches, but don't you find your
        teaching assists in your translation work and vice versa? Don't you find
        students appreciate practice in translation and interpretation skills? I
        find that especially in the workplace they very much appreciate it - which
        is where, I am saying, there is a market...

        See you,

        Melvyn







        ________________________________________________________________________
        Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
      • Otto Pacholik
        Hi all, ... Martin is right, in my opinion. Just the sitting in front of a computer can never teach you how to speak properly. You may only have a very good
        Message 3 of 6 , May 4, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi all,

          > BUT YOUR ACCENT AND FLUENCY AND ABILITY
          > TO SPEAK GOES INVARIABLY DOWN
          >
          > Really? This is a new angle for me. I suspect this varies a lot.
          > Maybe, this
          > is where something like Czechlist can help. Regular feedback and
          > opportunities to practise your foreign language are clearly in
          > demand among
          > translators. So where do we have our next meeting? BTW it was
          > very enjoyable
          > yesterday at U Kotvy with Rachel, Simon, Mirek (enjoy it?) and my dear
          > friend Slavka. Name a time and a place next week, somebody.

          Martin is right, in my opinion. Just the sitting in front of a computer can
          never teach you how to speak properly. You may only have a very good (if not
          even excellent) understanding of your non-native language. However, it is
          only by speaking you can really master it (and to get into subtleties of the
          everyday life). The fact you can find excellent translators speaking the
          foreign language in a very poor way just confirms what Martin said.

          > BTW I hear teachers also complain that their accuracy
          > deteriorates, at least
          > if they are teaching beginners.

          I heard this from some English teachers, too.

          Regards,

          Otto
        • Jirka Bolech
          ... Me, too. Jirka Bolech
          Message 4 of 6 , May 5, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            Melvyn Clarke wrote:

            > I do both, you do, Zdenek does...

            Me, too.

            Jirka Bolech
          • Zdenek_Bobek
            ... Yes, I do. It works well, except for the moments when I do not have time to translate because I have to go teaching or I do not have time to get ready for
            Message 5 of 6 , May 5, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              > Melvyn Clarke wrote:
              >
              > > I do both, you do, Zdenek does...
              >
              > Me, too.
              >
              > Jirka Bolech
              >
              >


              Yes, I do. It works well, except for the moments when I do not have time to
              translate because I have to go teaching or I do not have time to get ready
              for the lesson because I am too busy translating or when I am am behind with
              a translations and come late to my lessong because I am lazy, I have a
              hangover, I do not sleep well because I do not have sex enough, I do not
              sleep at all because I have too much sex, etc. etc. etc.
              Generally said it works well.

              Zdenek
            • Melvyn Clarke
              Hi Vladimir, ... exceptional being so although statistically maybe yes. Hmmm, we didn t even mention Todd - and Michael has confessed to doing it in the past
              Message 6 of 6 , May 9, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Vladimir,

                >No way did I mean to brag about the two jobs. I don't think we are/I am
                exceptional being so although statistically maybe yes.

                Hmmm, we didn't even mention Todd - and Michael has "confessed" to doing it
                in the past too:) - that makes a good quarter of our contributors. Quite a
                large area of overlap, I'd say.

                In my experience, a lot of teachers at language schools dabble in
                translation work - they often give me the impression they would like to get
                into it more but they aren't quite sure how to go about it in practice. This
                is particularly so in the poorly-paid state schools.

                >as someone
                on this list has said, being a good teacher may not mean they would make a
                good translator and vice versa.

                I said that:)as well as Martin J.

                >I agree the two complement each other in a
                unique and wonderful way (at least for me),

                Right - for example, when you are teaching specialists you learn valuable
                background and terminology. Preparing lessons can be like doing background
                research for a translation job. The students are usually pretty helpful on
                this, I find, if you explain in advance that you are not cracking on that
                you are an expert in their field. For example, I had a regular weekend
                course with some students from a paper-mill in South Bohemia, and we agreed
                on a procedure whereby I prepared a bunch of hopefully intelligent questions
                on the processes involved and we went over them using diagrams taken from
                one of those pictorial technical dictionaries. They also supplied me with
                some supporting documentation in English, which was useful too.

                You can then draw up little glossaries and ask them to go over your work.

                Conversely, when I am translating contracts, I will make a note of anything
                I think might be useful for my students involved in legal work and we have a
                section of our lesson where we discuss such finds.

                And of course, when I come up against a terminology problem, I find there is
                often an old student who can help out >->

                I'm sure a bit of brainstorming would throw up a few more ideas.

                >Is my standpoint any clearer now?
                Yup.

                >P.S. Glad there so many of you who dare stand in front of a bunch of wild
                and dangerous, hungry and roaring beasts 8-D.

                Oh you just have to be a bit firm with agency staff >->

                >Well, I believe our students
                are NEVER like that but just fancy that idea ...

                Oh THEM. Nah, they're all pussy-cats...:)

                Bye,

                Melvyn

                ______________________________________________
                FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
                Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.