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  • Tony Long
    I don t know about precision vs. dumbing down, and my existence is so cloistered that it fails to include much modern Irish, but I think the whole debate
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 5, 2001
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      I don't know about precision vs. dumbing down, and my existence is so
      cloistered that it fails to include much modern Irish, but I think the whole
      debate hinges on who uses the word most, to whom, and in what, and whether
      our translation will create confusion or not.

      The people who use the word 'cloister(s)' most in English are those who
      write about architecture. They do so to inform fellow architects of a
      particular kind of structure, or to describe such a structure to
      tourists/interested visitors. The word usually appears in journals and
      tourist literature.

      This structure/area may be part of a monastery or a nunnery. It is not
      usually the whole thing. My ancient Chambers Etymological Dictionary gives:
      'a covered arcade forming a part of a monastic or collegiate establishment;
      a place of religious retirement, a monastery or a nunnery' then derives the
      word from Old French and Latin for 'to shut, close'.
      A Faber dictionary of architecture (1993): 'A covered and often vaulted walk
      around an open space (or Garth) that is usually square on plan, having a
      largely solid outer wall and openings, sometimes filled with tracery, on the
      garth. A feature particularly of monasteries, in which it forms a passageway
      from the church to the chapter-house, refectory, etc.

      IMO, whatever its original meaning or use - and whatever relict usage
      survives in special circumstances such as religion-marinated Erin Go Brath -
      'cloister' as a noun refers to part of a building/complex, not the whole
      thing. As a verb, it means 'to confine', with overtones of uncomfortable but
      necessary proximity, possibly secrecy; 'he's been cloistered with the
      designers for hours. I wonder what they're cooking up'.

      In all the religious, historical, and tourist literature we have translated
      over the years, I have always avoided using the word 'cloister' at all, in
      order to avoid confusion. If it's a place, then it's a monastery, convent,
      nunnery, retreat, college, etc. If it's a covered walk with fancy vaulting
      around a courtyard, then that's what I say, one way or another. The
      definitions often mean that we have to talk to the author or even ask for
      photographs or go for a look - not always practical, I know.

      False friends always seem to invite the 'shoe-horn' approach - with
      etymology at one's side, a body of loose usage from previous literature
      egging one on, and a cosy feeling of technical rectitude, one squeezes the
      meaning into the word and leaves the text to limp on - in the assumption
      that one will never have to meet it again, a couple of years later, and see
      just how crippled it is ....

      As a hollow laugh and a reminder to beware of similar-looking words,
      especially on Latin roots, the pencil-holder on our kitchen shelf is a posh
      jar from Harrods (booty from some pharma-freebie), the label of which
      proudly proclaims: 'Home Produced Organic Marmalade guaranteed free of
      artificial preservatives'. I should bloodywell hope so - but there's a
      couple more in there as well.

      Best

      Tony
    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
      I liked your discussion of this word. ... It depends on what you are exposed to in life. I hear the term cloister used far less in an architectural meaning
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 5, 2001
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        I liked your discussion of this word.

        >The people who use the word 'cloister(s)' most in English are those who
        >write about architecture.

        It depends on what you are exposed to in life. I hear the term "cloister"
        used far less in an architectural meaning than in relation to the practice of
        cloistering nuns. In that sense too, it refers only to part of the convent
        or monastery.

        Jamie
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