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Cooperation with Russian agencies

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  • <z.kocickova@...>
      Hi, do you have any experience with Russian agencies? Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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      Hi,
      do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
      Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...

      I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and the contractor etc.
      Thanks for sharing your experience.
       
      Zuzana
    • Gerald Turner
      I for one wouldn t touch them. Gerald ... -- 6 Route de Mortroux 23360 La Forêt-du-Temple France Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41 I for one wouldn t touch them. Gerald
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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        I for one wouldn't touch them.

        Gerald


        On 31 October 2013 18:02, <z.kocickova@...> wrote:
         

         
        Hi,
        do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
        Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...

        I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and the contractor etc.
        Thanks for sharing your experience.
         
        Zuzana




        --
        6 Route de Mortroux
        23360 La Forêt-du-Temple
        France

        Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41


      • Martin Janda
        Zuzko, You don t need a complex PO/contract, you even don t need ANY PO/contract - as long as you can be sure you get paid. With Russian agencies, personally,
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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          Zuzko,

          You don't need a complex PO/contract, you even don't need ANY PO/contract - as long as you can be sure you get paid. With Russian agencies, personally, I would not take the risk, not to mention their poor rates. But if the project looks really attractive  - perhaps you can convince them to pay you in advance? I used that approach once with an agency with proz rating of 1.3. They were not happy, tried to bargain but in the end - as everyone else got scared of their poor rating and they had no choice - they paid. A win-win situation.

          Good luck
          Martin




          Dne 31.10.2013 18:02, z.kocickova@... napsal(a):
           

           
          Hi,
          do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
          Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...

          I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and the contractor etc.
          Thanks for sharing your experience.
           
          Zuzana


        • Jakub Skrebsky
          I wouldn t write them off just because the are Russian. I have a regular client from Belarus and another one from Russia. Both of them send short email or
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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            I wouldn't write them off just because the are Russian. I have a regular client from Belarus and another one from Russia. Both of them send short email or Skype messages instead of PO and it works fine. The truth is, though, that I had to test them first on a couple of small jobs to make sure they are reliable. I think it is not wise to take on a big job from a noname client before getting to know them a little.

            Jakub
            Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

            From: <z.kocickova@...>
            Sender: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 18:02:08 +0100
            To: czechlist<Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
            ReplyTo: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Czechlist] Cooperation with Russian agencies

             

             
            Hi,
            do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
            Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...

            I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and the contractor etc.
            Thanks for sharing your experience.
             
            Zuzana

          • James Kirchner
            If they seem unprofessional or suspicious, just don t work for them. Your gut feelings are probably the result of several red flags, and if I were you, I
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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              If they seem unprofessional or suspicious, just don't work for them. Your gut feelings are probably the result of several red flags, and if I were you, I would heed them. I know of too many cases in many aspects of life where someone ignored that kind of gut feeling and wound up in trouble.

              By the way "payment moral" doesn't exist in English. We would more likely say "payment practices" or in some cases "payment behavior".

              Jamie

              On Oct 31, 2013, at 1:02 PM, <z.kocickova@...> wrote:

              >
              > Hi,
              > do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
              > Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...
              >
              > I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and the contractor etc.
              > Thanks for sharing your experience.
              >
              > Zuzana
              > _______________________________________________
              > Czechlist mailing list
              > Czechlist@...
              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


              _______________________________________________
              Czechlist mailing list
              Czechlist@...
              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            • Gerald Turner
              Zuzana wrote payment morals , Jaymie, which is a perfectly good colloquial expression this side of the pond. Gerry ... -- 6 Route de Mortroux 23360 La
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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                Zuzana  wrote "payment morals", Jaymie, which is a perfectly good colloquial expression this side of the pond. 


                Gerry


                On 31 October 2013 19:32, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                 

                If they seem unprofessional or suspicious, just don't work for them. Your gut feelings are probably the result of several red flags, and if I were you, I would heed them. I know of too many cases in many aspects of life where someone ignored that kind of gut feeling and wound up in trouble.

                By the way "payment moral" doesn't exist in English. We would more likely say "payment practices" or in some cases "payment behavior".

                Jamie



                On Oct 31, 2013, at 1:02 PM, <z.kocickova@...> wrote:

                >
                > Hi,
                > do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
                > Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...
                >
                > I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and the contractor etc.
                > Thanks for sharing your experience.
                >
                > Zuzana
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist

                _______________________________________________
                Czechlist mailing list
                Czechlist@...
                http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist




                --
                6 Route de Mortroux
                23360 La Forêt-du-Temple
                France

                Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41


              • Gerald Turner
                Sorry, Jamie. Just back from a party. Gerry ... -- 6 Route de Mortroux 23360 La Forêt-du-Temple France Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41 Sorry, Jamie. Just back from a
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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                  Sorry, Jamie. Just back from a party.

                  Gerry


                  On 1 November 2013 00:05, Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@...> wrote:
                  Zuzana  wrote "payment morals", Jaymie, which is a perfectly good colloquial expression this side of the pond. 


                  Gerry


                  On 31 October 2013 19:32, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                   

                  If they seem unprofessional or suspicious, just don't work for them. Your gut feelings are probably the result of several red flags, and if I were you, I would heed them. I know of too many cases in many aspects of life where someone ignored that kind of gut feeling and wound up in trouble.

                  By the way "payment moral" doesn't exist in English. We would more likely say "payment practices" or in some cases "payment behavior".

                  Jamie



                  On Oct 31, 2013, at 1:02 PM, <z.kocickova@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Hi,
                  > do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
                  > Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...
                  >
                  > I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and the contractor etc.
                  > Thanks for sharing your experience.
                  >
                  > Zuzana
                  > _______________________________________________
                  > Czechlist mailing list
                  > Czechlist@...
                  > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist

                  _______________________________________________
                  Czechlist mailing list
                  Czechlist@...
                  http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist




                  --
                  6 Route de Mortroux
                  23360 La Forêt-du-Temple
                  France




                  --
                  6 Route de Mortroux
                  23360 La Forêt-du-Temple
                  France

                  Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41


                • James Kirchner
                  It sounds like a calque of Zahlungsmoral . I wonder how long it s been in use in British English and where it came from. I threw a fit about the appearance
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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                    It sounds like a calque of "Zahlungsmoral". I wonder how long it's been in use in British English and where it came from.

                    I threw a fit about the appearance of the Euro term "payment moral" in a tech support wiki I translate all the time and even insisted it be removed from the software it was about. Lucky the thing is supposed to be in American English (although many of the parts that have never been handed over for translation are in Germlish).

                    JK

                    On Oct 31, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Gerald Turner wrote:

                    > Zuzana wrote "payment morals", Jaymie, which is a perfectly good
                    > colloquial expression this side of the pond.
                    >
                    >
                    > Gerry
                    >
                    >
                    > On 31 October 2013 19:32, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> **
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> If they seem unprofessional or suspicious, just don't work for them. Your
                    >> gut feelings are probably the result of several red flags, and if I were
                    >> you, I would heed them. I know of too many cases in many aspects of life
                    >> where someone ignored that kind of gut feeling and wound up in trouble.
                    >>
                    >> By the way "payment moral" doesn't exist in English. We would more likely
                    >> say "payment practices" or in some cases "payment behavior".
                    >>
                    >> Jamie
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> On Oct 31, 2013, at 1:02 PM, <z.kocickova@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>>
                    >>> Hi,
                    >>> do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
                    >>> Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment
                    >> morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not
                    >> willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a
                    >> simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it
                    >> was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...
                    >>>
                    >>> I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work
                    >> for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an
                    >> agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and
                    >> the contractor etc.
                    >>> Thanks for sharing your experience.
                    >>>
                    >>> Zuzana
                    >>> _______________________________________________
                    >>> Czechlist mailing list
                    >>> Czechlist@...
                    >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    >>
                    >> _______________________________________________
                    >> Czechlist mailing list
                    >> Czechlist@...
                    >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > 6 Route de Mortroux
                    > 23360 La Foret-du-Temple
                    > France
                    >
                    > Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41
                    > _______________________________________________
                    > Czechlist mailing list
                    > Czechlist@...
                    > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                    _______________________________________________
                    Czechlist mailing list
                    Czechlist@...
                    http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  • James Kirchner
                    So is what you said about payment morals true or not? What s the party got to do with it? Jamie ... _______________________________________________
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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                      So is what you said about "payment morals" true or not? What's the party got to do with it?

                      Jamie

                      On Oct 31, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Gerald Turner wrote:

                      > Sorry, Jamie. Just back from a party.
                      >
                      > Gerry
                      >
                      >
                      > On 1 November 2013 00:05, Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Zuzana wrote "payment morals", Jaymie, which is a perfectly good
                      >> colloquial expression this side of the pond.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Gerry
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> On 31 October 2013 19:32, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>> **
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> If they seem unprofessional or suspicious, just don't work for them. Your
                      >>> gut feelings are probably the result of several red flags, and if I were
                      >>> you, I would heed them. I know of too many cases in many aspects of life
                      >>> where someone ignored that kind of gut feeling and wound up in trouble.
                      >>>
                      >>> By the way "payment moral" doesn't exist in English. We would more likely
                      >>> say "payment practices" or in some cases "payment behavior".
                      >>>
                      >>> Jamie
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 1:02 PM, <z.kocickova@...> wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Hi,
                      >>>> do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
                      >>>> Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their
                      >>> payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they
                      >>> were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO
                      >>> was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline.
                      >>> BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...
                      >>>>
                      >>>> I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work
                      >>> for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an
                      >>> agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and
                      >>> the contractor etc.
                      >>>> Thanks for sharing your experience.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Zuzana
                      >>>> _______________________________________________
                      >>>> Czechlist mailing list
                      >>>> Czechlist@...
                      >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                      >>>
                      >>> _______________________________________________
                      >>> Czechlist mailing list
                      >>> Czechlist@...
                      >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --
                      >> 6 Route de Mortroux
                      >> 23360 La Foret-du-Temple
                      >> France
                      >>
                      >> Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > 6 Route de Mortroux
                      > 23360 La Foret-du-Temple
                      > France
                      >
                      > Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41
                      > _______________________________________________
                      > Czechlist mailing list
                      > Czechlist@...
                      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                      _______________________________________________
                      Czechlist mailing list
                      Czechlist@...
                      http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    • <translators@...>
                      Hello Zuzana, It is always good to ask around and do your due diligence. Although I agree with the others in some points, I am sure that there are also
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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                        Hello Zuzana,

                        It is always good to ask around and do your due diligence. Although I agree with the others in some points, I am sure that there are also trustworthy agencies and colleagues in Russia, just as in any other country of the world.

                        For example, I used to work with Ruslingo.com and never had any problems with payment. (However, this agency is actually located in India, but run by a Russian. I have also been collaborating for many years with a Canadian agency, Versatile Translations, which is run by a Russian, too.)

                        If there is no big contract or professionally looking PO it only indicates that it is probably rather a one-person-business and not a big company with lots of employees. When I source out jobs to colleagues, I also do it with a brief email only. This is quite common for small home businesses all over the world.

                        However, you should at least know and verify the name and address of a new client - this applies always, even if they send you professionally prepared legal contracts or have a professionally done website. In case of a first job which is quite big (from 30 pages up) I would further ask for an advance payment, if I had only the slightest doubt whether this client is trustworthy.

                        Best regards,
                        Romana


                        ---- z.kocickova@... wrote:
                        >  
                        > Hi,
                        > do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
                        > Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...
                        >
                        > I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and the contractor etc.
                        > Thanks for sharing your experience.
                        >  
                        > Zuzana
                      • <z.kocickova@...>
                        Thanks Jamie. ZK   ...   It sounds like a calque of Zahlungsmoral . I wonder how long it s been in use in British English and where it came from. I threw a
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 31, 2013
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                          Thanks Jamie.
                          ZK
                           
                          ______________________________________________________________
                          > Od: James Kirchner <czechlist@...>
                          > Komu: <czechlist@...>
                          > Datum: 01.11.2013 00:13
                          > Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Cooperation with Russian agencies
                          >
                           
                          It sounds like a calque of "Zahlungsmoral". I wonder how long it's been in use in British English and where it came from.

                          I threw a fit about the appearance of the Euro term "payment moral" in a tech support wiki I translate all the time and even insisted it be removed from the software it was about. Lucky the thing is supposed to be in American English (although many of the parts that have never been handed over for translation are in Germlish).

                          JK

                          On Oct 31, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Gerald Turner wrote:

                          > Zuzana wrote "payment morals", Jaymie, which is a perfectly good
                          > colloquial expression this side of the pond.
                          >
                          >
                          > Gerry
                          >
                          >
                          > On 31 October 2013 19:32, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> **
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> If they seem unprofessional or suspicious, just don't work for them. Your
                          >> gut feelings are probably the result of several red flags, and if I were
                          >> you, I would heed them. I know of too many cases in many aspects of life
                          >> where someone ignored that kind of gut feeling and wound up in trouble.
                          >>
                          >> By the way "payment moral" doesn't exist in English. We would more likely
                          >> say "payment practices" or in some cases "payment behavior".
                          >>
                          >> Jamie
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> On Oct 31, 2013, at 1:02 PM, <z.kocickova@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>>
                          >>> Hi,
                          >>> do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
                          >>> Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their payment
                          >> morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they were not
                          >> willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO was a
                          >> simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline. BUT it
                          >> was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...
                          >>>
                          >>> I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work
                          >> for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an
                          >> agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and
                          >> the contractor etc.
                          >>> Thanks for sharing your experience.
                          >>>
                          >>> Zuzana
                          >>> _______________________________________________
                          >>> Czechlist mailing list
                          >>> Czechlist@...
                          >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >>
                          >> _______________________________________________
                          >> Czechlist mailing list
                          >> Czechlist@...
                          >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > 6 Route de Mortroux
                          > 23360 La Foret-du-Temple
                          > France
                          >
                          > Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41
                          > _______________________________________________
                          > Czechlist mailing list
                          > Czechlist@...
                          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist

                          _______________________________________________
                          Czechlist mailing list
                          Czechlist@...
                          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ales Horak
                          Moje spolupráce s Rusáky skončila zatím nevymahatelným dluhem, takže radši ruce pryč. AH = Moje spolupráce s Rusáky skončila zatím nevymahatelným
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 1, 2013
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                            Moje spolupráce s Rusáky skončila zatím nevymahatelným dluhem, takže radši ruce pryč.
                            AH
                            =
                          • Gerald Turner
                            The party was to do with the mis-spelling of your name. What I said about payment morals stands. Gerry ... -- 6 Route de Mortroux 23360 La Forêt-du-Temple
                            Message 13 of 18 , Nov 1, 2013
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                              The party was to do with the mis-spelling of your name. What I said about "payment morals" stands.
                              Gerry


                              On 1 November 2013 00:14, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                               

                              So is what you said about "payment morals" true or not? What's the party got to do with it?

                              Jamie



                              On Oct 31, 2013, at 7:09 PM, Gerald Turner wrote:

                              > Sorry, Jamie. Just back from a party.
                              >
                              > Gerry
                              >
                              >
                              > On 1 November 2013 00:05, Gerald Turner <turner.gerald@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >> Zuzana wrote "payment morals", Jaymie, which is a perfectly good
                              >> colloquial expression this side of the pond.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Gerry
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> On 31 October 2013 19:32, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> **

                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> If they seem unprofessional or suspicious, just don't work for them. Your
                              >>> gut feelings are probably the result of several red flags, and if I were
                              >>> you, I would heed them. I know of too many cases in many aspects of life
                              >>> where someone ignored that kind of gut feeling and wound up in trouble.
                              >>>
                              >>> By the way "payment moral" doesn't exist in English. We would more likely
                              >>> say "payment practices" or in some cases "payment behavior".
                              >>>
                              >>> Jamie
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> On Oct 31, 2013, at 1:02 PM, <z.kocickova@...> wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Hi,
                              >>>> do you have any experience with Russian agencies?
                              >>>> Some of them have quite bad references at proz.com due to their
                              >>> payment morals. I have just refused to work for one of them because they
                              >>> were not willing to sign any cooperation or service agreement and their PO
                              >>> was a simple email with the total price of the project and the deadline.
                              >>> BUT it was a big job (200 pages) and someone will take it...
                              >>>>
                              >>>> I only want to know if I am too suspicious, while others commonly work
                              >>> for agencies with low proz rating (1.5) without any agreement with an
                              >>> agency or a PO stating at least the full invoicing data of the customer and
                              >>> the contractor etc.
                              >>>> Thanks for sharing your experience.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Zuzana
                              >>>> _______________________________________________
                              >>>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>>> Czechlist@...
                              >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>>
                              >>> _______________________________________________
                              >>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>> Czechlist@...
                              >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> --
                              >> 6 Route de Mortroux
                              >> 23360 La Foret-du-Temple

                              >> France
                              >>
                              >> Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > 6 Route de Mortroux
                              > 23360 La Foret-du-Temple

                              > France
                              >
                              > Tel: + 33 5 44 30 12 41
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Czechlist mailing list
                              > Czechlist@...
                              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist

                              _______________________________________________
                              Czechlist mailing list
                              Czechlist@...
                              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist




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                            • Jirka Bolech
                              Hi Zuzana, As Jakub has suggested, if I were you, I would only decide for myself what credit you want to give them, that is how much work you re willing to do
                              Message 14 of 18 , Nov 1, 2013
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                                Hi Zuzana,

                                As Jakub has suggested, if I were you, I would only decide for myself
                                what credit you want to give them, that is how much work you're willing
                                to do for them before getting paid. You may want to consider their
                                country in making such a decision but the largest bad debt I suffered
                                recently (last year) was from a business based in the United Kingdom
                                although the owner was once an Iraqui national (Jakub knows which one I
                                mean). I don't use past tense 'was' because he's probably a British
                                subject now but because he went into controlled bankruptcy with that
                                business of his, which means I will never see the money. That's because
                                the company was limited liability and I have no resources or means to
                                have him investigated by the police or sue him. Most language servise
                                providers in Europe are limited liabality companies.

                                In my opinion any paperwork you might require from them, such as formal
                                agreements or purchase orders of any kind, don't cover you against loss
                                unless you can use a collection agency or the legal system to recover or
                                claim a possible debt. Just consider. You may have reasons to accept a
                                job of even this size but the only solution I see is their willingness
                                to pay you for each part submitted before you continue with the rest,
                                for example by PayPal to avoid waiting times. One part = the credit
                                amount...

                                Jirka

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                              • Jirka Bolech
                                Jeste me napadlo, ze samozrejme tuto problematiku mohou resit podminene platby pres treti stranu (escrow). Rekl bych, ze nektere platebni portaly (myslim, ze
                                Message 15 of 18 , Nov 1, 2013
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                                  Jeste me napadlo, ze samozrejme tuto problematiku mohou resit podminene
                                  platby pres treti stranu (escrow). Rekl bych, ze nektere platebni
                                  portaly (myslim, ze Skrill/Moneybookers), nabizi urcite moznosti tohoto
                                  druhu, ale stejne to vzdy muze selhat na potvrzeni splneni zavazku ze
                                  strany dodavatele, tedy prekladatele. Jeden tip by mohl byt portal na
                                  zprostredkovani poptavek Elance.com, ktery si ale necha provizi 10%. Na
                                  druhou stranu tvrdi, ze mohou za urcitych podminek provest neco jako
                                  arbitraz...

                                  Jirka

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                                • <z.kocickova@...>
                                  Jirko moc dekuji i za tuto informaci. Zuzana   ...   Jeste me napadlo, ze samozrejme tuto problematiku mohou resit podminene platby pres treti stranu
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Nov 1, 2013
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                                    Jirko moc dekuji i za tuto informaci.
                                    Zuzana
                                     
                                    ______________________________________________________________
                                    > Od: Jirka Bolech <czechlist@...>
                                    > Komu: <czechlist@...>
                                    > Datum: 01.11.2013 11:03
                                    > Předmět: Re: [Czechlist] Cooperation with Russian agencies
                                    >
                                     
                                    Jeste me napadlo, ze samozrejme tuto problematiku mohou resit podminene
                                    platby pres treti stranu (escrow). Rekl bych, ze nektere platebni
                                    portaly (myslim, ze Skrill/Moneybookers), nabizi urcite moznosti tohoto
                                    druhu, ale stejne to vzdy muze selhat na potvrzeni splneni zavazku ze
                                    strany dodavatele, tedy prekladatele. Jeden tip by mohl byt portal na
                                    zprostredkovani poptavek Elance.com, ktery si ale necha provizi 10%. Na
                                    druhou stranu tvrdi, ze mohou za urcitych podminek provest neco jako
                                    arbitraz...

                                    Jirka

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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • James Kirchner
                                    Based on nationality, you can guess, you can use your gut, but you can t know. In my area we ve got an Iraqi native who s run her agency stably for more than
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Nov 1, 2013
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                                      Based on nationality, you can guess, you can use your gut, but you can't know.

                                      In my area we've got an Iraqi native who's run her agency stably for more than 30 years and pays so fast that you can't figure out how she does it. (Sometimes the check is in my mailbox less than 12 hours after I complete the job.) Meanwhile, we've got an agency owner of Anglo-Saxon descent and very impressive credentials who has a long caravan of people waiting to sue her for jobs going back years.

                                      What I've figured out is that you can mainly tell who the shyster is by how they approach you:

                                      The Iraqi lady who pays lightning fast just phones you and says, "Hello, I'm Mrs. X from XYZ Agency, and I've got 12,000 words that need translating from Lower Slobovian. Do you think you could do it?" If you ask her for more information about her agency, she'll give it to you. Everything is very clear and businesslike.

                                      The American woman who doesn't pay half the time calls you up, shmoozes you, drops the names of a few mutual acquaintances (usually important but dead people in the state translators association) and gains your trust that way. She's friends with all your pals, or at least it seems that way if you don't check. Everything is more "personal".

                                      And lest anyone think that doing a couple small jobs until you see if the agency pays is a good way to protect yourself, they should know that the American woman's modus operandi is to hire the translator for one or two very small jobs, pay on time to establish trust, then hire them for a whopper of a big job and never pay until the court orders her to.

                                      Jamie

                                      On Nov 1, 2013, at 5:25 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                                      > Hi Zuzana,
                                      >
                                      > As Jakub has suggested, if I were you, I would only decide for myself
                                      > what credit you want to give them, that is how much work you're willing
                                      > to do for them before getting paid. You may want to consider their
                                      > country in making such a decision but the largest bad debt I suffered
                                      > recently (last year) was from a business based in the United Kingdom
                                      > although the owner was once an Iraqui national (Jakub knows which one I
                                      > mean). I don't use past tense 'was' because he's probably a British
                                      > subject now but because he went into controlled bankruptcy with that
                                      > business of his, which means I will never see the money. That's because
                                      > the company was limited liability and I have no resources or means to
                                      > have him investigated by the police or sue him. Most language servise
                                      > providers in Europe are limited liabality companies.
                                      >
                                      > In my opinion any paperwork you might require from them, such as formal
                                      > agreements or purchase orders of any kind, don't cover you against loss
                                      > unless you can use a collection agency or the legal system to recover or
                                      > claim a possible debt. Just consider. You may have reasons to accept a
                                      > job of even this size but the only solution I see is their willingness
                                      > to pay you for each part submitted before you continue with the rest,
                                      > for example by PayPal to avoid waiting times. One part = the credit
                                      > amount...
                                      >
                                      > Jirka
                                      >
                                      > _______________________________________________
                                      > Czechlist mailing list
                                      > Czechlist@...
                                      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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                                    • Josef Hlavac
                                      I second that. There are trustworthy Russian agencies (perevedem.ru / ABBYY comes to mind), just as there are less trustworthy agencies (such as one that tried
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Nov 3, 2013
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                                        I second that. There are trustworthy Russian agencies (perevedem.ru /
                                        ABBYY comes to mind), just as there are less trustworthy agencies (such
                                        as one that tried to pay me with a third-party personal check). ProZ
                                        BlueBoard usually helps.

                                        As far as I recall, I never even received a formal PO from the
                                        above-mentioned agency. We'd simply exchange e-mails with the job offer
                                        (files to translate, wordcount, deadline) and my "OK".

                                        So, I've learned not to base my judgment on nationality only. While we
                                        may hear about untrustworthy Indian, Chinese etc. agencies all the time,
                                        my only non-payer to date is from Spain...

                                        Josef


                                        On 1.11.2013 1:09, translators@... wrote:
                                        > Hello Zuzana,
                                        >
                                        > It is always good to ask around and do your due diligence. Although I agree with the others in some points, I am sure that there are also trustworthy agencies and colleagues in Russia, just as in any other country of the world.
                                        >
                                        >


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