Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [Czechlist] British politeness

Expand Messages
  • James Kirchner
    Thank you for your sincerity. It s appreciated. Sincerely, Jamie ... _______________________________________________ Czechlist mailing list
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
      Thank you for your sincerity. It's appreciated.

      Sincerely,

      Jamie

      On Sep 10, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Charles Stanford wrote:

      > Here is a bit of sincerity for you then Jamie: I have learnt over the years
      > that there is absolutely no point in getting into a "discussion" with you
      > so I am not going to make that mistake again.
      >
      > On 10 September 2013 17:56, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
      >
      >> **
      >>
      >>
      >> How is it good manners if you send the foreigner on a wild goose chase
      >> because you said the opposite of what you mean? I can't think of many
      >> things ruder than that.
      >>
      >> Jamie
      >>
      >> On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Charles Stanford wrote:
      >>
      >>> We tend to call it "good manners" rather than "insincerity"
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> On 10 September 2013 17:44, James Kirchner <czechlist@...>
      >> wrote:
      >>>
      >>>> **
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>>>> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George
      >>>> Mikes. It is old, but still very valid.
      >>>>>> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really
      >>>> interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst
      >> rubbing
      >>>> one's chin and frowning ... (see below)
      >>>>
      >>>> Thanks for the book tip. I'd never heard of it.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g.
      >>>>
      >> http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml
      >>>>>> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more
      >> than
      >>>> I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow
      >> that's
      >>>> awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand
      >> 'You
      >>>> must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both
      >>>> ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the
      >> pond,
      >>>> one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.
      >>>>
      >>>> Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as
      >> an
      >>>> American, when I hear another American say, "Wow, that's awesome," it
      >>>> almost always means, "Wow, that's awesome." In the extremely rare case
      >> that
      >>>> it doesn't, it will be very obvious from the tone of voice, which will
      >> be
      >>>> dramatically sarcastic or very monotonal.
      >>>>
      >>>> I have trouble picturing an American saying, "You must come and stay."
      >>>> That's a primarily a British formulation. However, if an American tells
      >>>> someone something like, "You should stay with us for a few days," he
      >> almost
      >>>> certainly means it, because he knows his American interlocutor will
      >> almost
      >>>> certainly take it literally. The insincere response will usually come
      >> from
      >>>> the person being invited, usually in the form of an excuse.
      >>>>
      >>>> However, past the Rockies, the farther west you get, the more the
      >>>> insincerity seems to increase.
      >>>>
      >>>> Jamie
      >>>>
      >>>> _______________________________________________
      >>>> Czechlist mailing list
      >>>> Czechlist@...
      >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> --
      >>> Charlie Stanford
      >>> Telephone: +420 326 996 382
      >>> +420 737 583 608
      >>> Skype: charliestanfordtranslations
      >>> _______________________________________________
      >>> Czechlist mailing list
      >>> Czechlist@...
      >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >>
      >> _______________________________________________
      >> Czechlist mailing list
      >> Czechlist@...
      >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Charlie Stanford
      > Telephone: +420 326 996 382
      > +420 737 583 608
      > Skype: charliestanfordtranslations
      > _______________________________________________
      > Czechlist mailing list
      > Czechlist@...
      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


      _______________________________________________
      Czechlist mailing list
      Czechlist@...
      http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
    • Sabina Králová
      Dobry den, muj staly zakaznik hleda prekladatele pro preklad z anglictiny do nemciny, obor medicina. Pokud budete mit nekdo zajem, kontaktujte mne prosim
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
        
        Dobry den,
         
        muj staly zakaznik hleda prekladatele pro preklad z anglictiny do nemciny, obor medicina. Pokud budete mit nekdo zajem, kontaktujte mne prosim offlist.
        Diky
        Sabina
      • James Kirchner
        American men tend to love sarcasm when they re together in a male atmosphere, and exchange of sarcasm is part of the male bonding ritual. Some women also
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
          American men tend to love sarcasm when they're together in a male atmosphere, and exchange of sarcasm is part of the "male bonding" ritual. Some women also engage in it with friends, but I imagine some react nastily to it.

          It may be a little different when Americans come face to face with a foreigner they don't know well. I think most Americans would enjoy sarcasm from a warm, friendly Italian or Peruvian (in fact, I've seen that), but I don't think they'd care for it from an arrogant Frenchman, a cold German or a stiff Englishman. We Americans never had any problem taking good-natured sarcasm from friendly Czechs.

          [POZOR! Before anyone reacts, notice that I did not say ALL Frenchman are arrogant or ALL Germans are cold or ALL Englishmen are stiff. This should be obvious, but if I don't insert this disclaimer, someone is going to accuse me of that.]

          However, I don't think what we're talking about here is sarcasm. What we're talking about is saying the opposite of what one means in order not to make waves. I wouldn't consider saying, "It's quite good," when you really think it's quite bad to be either sarcasm or brilliant. It's possible to be diplomatic without lying.

          In fact, well-raised Americans are generally taught the skill of being diplomatic without lying by their parents. I can remember my mom going through a situation with my brother and coaching him on saving face for the other person while still telling the truth.

          Jamie

          On Sep 10, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Hannah Geiger wrote:

          > In my experience, the Americans as a group are not too fond of sarcasms, be
          > they brilliant or not. This may be why some of the "British ways" leave
          > them either insecure or insulted.
          >
          >
          > Hanka
          >
          >
          > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Hannah Geiger
          > <hannahgeiger115@...>wrote:
          >
          >> The one and only *HOW ARE YOU*. Unless asked by a friend, it is very
          >> unlikely that anyone will expect a story on one's health or how bad the
          >> roads are today.
          >>
          >> Yet, you have to give the J*ust fine, thank yo*u (or similar) every day.
          >> So far for the everyday "deceptions".
          >>
          >> As to the "I hear what you are saying", I have heard the "I hear you" on
          >> several occasions, but it is usually sincere, meaning" I get the drift", "I
          >> get the vibe, etc".
          >>
          >> Anyway, this topic reminds me of a long-forgotten thought: As a teenager
          >> I considered the English so polite that a secret thought would cross my
          >> mind if they reproduced the "normal" way.
          >>
          >> Hanka
          >>
          >>
          >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:17 AM, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>> Funny you should mention good old Mikes - no hacek, BTW - that would make
          >>> him Kocour Mikes's relative and a Czech, AFAIK he was a Hungarian
          >>> aristocrat of some sort...
          >>> I picked the book up when I was in Denmark ages ago and found it in the
          >>> corner of the bookcase recently.. Matej
          >>> ------ Original Message ------
          >>> From: gerry.vickers@...
          >>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          >>> Sent: 9.9.2013 17:12:31
          >>> Subject: [Czechlist] RE: British politeness
          >>>
          >>>>
          >>>> Yes, it's not bad at all. Politicians are masters at speaking like this.
          >>>> I know that Germans get particularly confused as they like to call a spade
          >>>> a spade. I have one German friend from university who was all over the
          >>>> place for the first few months he was in England for this reason - it was
          >>>> rather amusing.
          >>>>
          >>>> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikes.
          >>>> It is old, but still very valid.
          >>>> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really
          >>>> interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing
          >>>> one's chin and frowning ... (see below)
          >>>>
          >>>> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g.
          >>>> http://www.degruyter.com/view/**j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.**
          >>>> 2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml<http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml>
          >>>> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than
          >>>> I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's
          >>>> awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You
          >>>> must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both
          >>>> ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond,
          >>>> one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.
          >>>> A couple of gems from Mikes:
          >>>>
          >>>> If a European boy wants to tell a girl that he loves her, he goes down
          >>>> on his knees and tells her she is the sweetest, most beautiful and
          >>>> wonderful person in the world. She has something in her, something special,
          >>>> and he cannot live one more minute without her. Sometimes, to make this all
          >>>> clear, he shoots himself. This happens every day in European countries
          >>>> where people have soul.
          >>>> In England the boy puts his hand o the girl?s shoulder and says,
          >>>> quietly, "You're all right, you know."
          >>>> If he really loves her he says "I really quite like you, in fact."
          >>>> If he wants to marry a girl, he says. "I say ... would you ... ?"
          >>>> If he wants to sleep with her, "I say ... shall we ... ?"
          >>>>
          >>>> ----
          >>>>
          >>>> It is easy to be rude in Europe. You just shout and call people animal
          >>>> names. To be very rude, you can make up terrible stories about them.
          >>>> In England people are rude in a very different way. If somebody tells
          >>>> you an untrue story, in Europe you say, "You are a liar, sir." In England
          >>>> you just say, "Oh, is that so?" Or, "That's quite an unusual story, isn't
          >>>> it?".
          >>>> A few years ago, when I only knew about ten words of English, I went for
          >>>> a job. The man who saw me said quietly, "I'm afraid your English is a bit
          >>>> unusual." In any European language this means, "Kick this man out of the
          >>>> office!"
          >>>> A hundred years ago, if somebody made the Sultan of Turkey or the Czar
          >>>> of Russia angry, they cut the person's head off immediately. But when
          >>>> somebody made the English queen angry, she said, "We are not amused," and
          >>>> the English are still, to this day, very proud of their queen for being so
          >>>> rude.
          >>>> Terribly rude things to say are: "I'm afraid that ... ", "How strange
          >>>> that ..." and "I'm sorry, but ... " You must look very serious when saying
          >>>> such things.
          >>>> It is true that sometimes you hear people shout, "Get out of here!" or
          >>>> "Shut your big mouth!" or "Dirty pig!", etc. This is very un-English.
          >>>> Foreigners who lived in England hundreds of years ago probably introduced
          >>>> these things to the English language.
          >>>>
          >>>> ---
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> --- In czechlist@yahoogroups.com, <kzgafas@...> wrote:
          >>>>
          >>>> I find this article as dramatically interesting. I am curious to read
          >>>> comments of British here.
          >>>>
          >>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/**news/newstopics/howaboutthat/**
          >>>> 10280244/Translation-table-**explaining-the-truth-behind-**
          >>>> British-politeness-becomes-**internet-hit.html<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10280244/Translation-table-explaining-the-truth-behind-British-politeness-becomes-internet-hit.html>
          >>>>
          >>>> ______________________________**_________________
          >>> Czechlist mailing list
          >>> Czechlist@...
          >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist<http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          > _______________________________________________
          > Czechlist mailing list
          > Czechlist@...
          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


          _______________________________________________
          Czechlist mailing list
          Czechlist@...
          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        • <saba-k@...>
          Dobry den,   muj staly zakaznik hleda prekladatele pro preklad z anglictiny do nemciny, obor medicina. Pokud budete mit nekdo zajem, kontaktujte mne prosim
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
            Dobry den,
             
            muj staly zakaznik hleda prekladatele pro preklad z anglictiny do nemciny, obor medicina. Pokud budete mit nekdo zajem, kontaktujte mne prosim offlist.
            Diky
            Sabina
          • Sabina Králová
            Dobry den, nemate prosim nekdo zkusenosti s francouzskou agenturou Right Word Europe? Na ProZ mĂĄ hodnoceni od 3 prekladatelu, ale nejak mi nesedi jejich
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 11, 2013
              

              Dobry den,

              nemate prosim nekdo zkusenosti s francouzskou agenturou Right Word Europe? Na ProZ má hodnoceni od 3 prekladatelu, ale nejak mi nesedi jejich webove stranky.

              Diky

              Sabina

            • <saba-k@...>
              Dobry den, nemate prosim nekdo zkusenosti s francouzskou agenturou Right Word Europe? Na ProZ mĂĄ hodnoceni od 3 prekladatelu, ale nejak mi nesedi jejich
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 11, 2013

                Dobry den,

                nemate prosim nekdo zkusenosti s francouzskou agenturou Right Word Europe? Na ProZ má hodnoceni od 3 prekladatelu, ale nejak mi nesedi jejich webove stranky.

                Diky

                Sabina

                =
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.