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British politeness

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  • kzgafas
    I find this article as dramatically interesting. I am curious to read comments of British here.
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 8, 2013
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    • Pilucha, Jiri
      Not that I am a Brit but I like it Jiri From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kzgafas@ti.cz Sent: Monday, September
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 9, 2013
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        Not that I am a Brit but I like it

        Jiri

         

         

        From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kzgafas@...
        Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 1:08 AM
        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Czechlist] British politeness

         

         

      • James Kirchner
        I m not a Brit either, but I can say that Americans have the same problem with that kind of British speech as other people do. I ve heard of Americans working
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 9, 2013
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          I'm not a Brit either, but I can say that Americans have the same problem with that kind of British speech as other people do. I've heard of Americans working in the UK having trouble with the phrase, "Well done," which to us means that the person has done something well, but allegedly has various layers of nuance in the UK, ranging all the way to meaning, "You botched it."

          Some of this insincere speech is taught in ESL textbooks abroad, which causes problems for Americans when they say something is "quite good" and don't know why the foreigner's feelings were hurt. The thing is that when we say something is "quite [adjective]", we mean it literally, and these non-native speakers have been conditioned by British ESL texts to think that sort of statement is always ironic.

          German interns at companies in Detroit have told me they had similar communication problems in California, but never in Detroit.

          Even though in most European languages the expression for "good-bye" literally means "see you later", European immigrants to the US nonetheless have trouble interpreting what we mean when we say, "See you later!" and for some reason they think it means we're coming back in a little while. A Serb told me that for this reason he had his wife prepare a big spread of food on two separate occasions before deciding that his neighbor was a compulsive liar.

          Jamie

          On Sep 9, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Pilucha, Jiri wrote:

          > Not that I am a Brit but I like it
          > Jiri
          >
          >
          > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kzgafas@...
          > Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 1:08 AM
          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Czechlist] British politeness
          >
          >
          >
          > I find this article as dramatically interesting. I am curious to read comments of British here.
          >
          >
          >
          > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10280244/Translation-table-explaining-the-truth-behind-British-politeness-becomes-internet-hit.html
          >
          > _______________________________________________
          > Czechlist mailing list
          > Czechlist@...
          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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        • wustpisk
          Yes, it s not bad at all. Politicians are masters at speaking like this. I know that Germans get particularly confused as they like to call a spade a spade. I
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 9, 2013
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            Yes, it's not bad at all. Politicians are masters at speaking like this. I know that Germans get particularly confused as they like to call a spade a spade. I have one German friend from university who was all over the place for the first few months he was in England for this reason - it was rather amusing.


            For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikeš. It is old, but still very valid. 


            It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing one's chin and frowning ... (see below)


            But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g. http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml

             - I'd like to see the rest of that article but €30 is a tad more than I'd like to spend ...  When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond, one just has to adapt one's way of thinking. 


            A couple of gems from Mikeš:


            If a European boy wants to tell a girl that he loves her, he goes down on his knees and tells her she is the sweetest, most beautiful and wonderful person in the world. She has something in her, something special, and he cannot live one more minute without her. Sometimes, to make this all clear, he shoots himself. This happens every day in European countries where people have soul.

            In England the boy puts his hand o the girl§s shoulder and says, quietly, "You're all right, you know."

            If he really loves her he says "I really quite like you, in fact."

            If he wants to marry a girl, he says. "I say ...  would you ... ?"

            If he wants to sleep with her, "I say ... shall we ... ?"


            ----


            It is easy to be rude in Europe. You just shout and call people animal names. To be very rude, you can make up terrible stories about them.

            In England people are rude in a very different way. If somebody tells you an untrue story, in Europe you say, "You are a liar, sir." In England you just say, "Oh, is that so?" Or, "That's quite an unusual story, isn't it?".

            A few years ago, when I only knew about ten words of English, I went for a job. The man who saw me said quietly, "I'm afraid your English is a bit unusual." In any European language this means, "Kick this man out of the office!"

            A hundred years ago, if somebody made the Sultan of Turkey or the Czar of Russia angry, they cut the person's head off immediately. But when somebody made the English queen angry, she said, "We are not amused," and the English are still, to this day, very proud of their queen for being so rude.

            Terribly rude things to say are: "I'm afraid that ... ", "How strange that ..." and "I'm sorry, but ... " You must look very serious when saying such things.

            It is true that sometimes you hear people shout, "Get out of here!" or "Shut your big mouth!" or "Dirty pig!", etc. This is very un-English. Foreigners who lived in England hundreds of years ago probably introduced these things to the English language.


            ---




            --- In czechlist@yahoogroups.com, <kzgafas@...> wrote:

          • Matej Klimes
            Funny you should mention good old Mikes - no hacek, BTW - that would make him Kocour Mikeš s relative and a Czech, AFAIK he was a Hungarian aristocrat of some
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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              Funny you should mention good old Mikes - no hacek, BTW - that would make him Kocour Mikeš's relative and a Czech, AFAIK he was a Hungarian aristocrat of some sort...
               
              I picked the book up when I was in Denmark ages ago and found it in the corner of the bookcase recently.. 
               
              Matej
              ------ Original Message ------
              From: gerry.vickers@...
              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: 9.9.2013 17:12:31
              Subject: [Czechlist] RE: British politeness
               

              Yes, it's not bad at all. Politicians are masters at speaking like this. I know that Germans get particularly confused as they like to call a spade a spade. I have one German friend from university who was all over the place for the first few months he was in England for this reason - it was rather amusing.


              For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikeš. It is old, but still very valid. 


              It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing one's chin and frowning ... (see below)


              But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g. http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml

               - I'd like to see the rest of that article but €30 is a tad more than I'd like to spend ...  When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond, one just has to adapt one's way of thinking. 


              A couple of gems from Mikeš:


              If a European boy wants to tell a girl that he loves her, he goes down on his knees and tells her she is the sweetest, most beautiful and wonderful person in the world. She has something in her, something special, and he cannot live one more minute without her. Sometimes, to make this all clear, he shoots himself. This happens every day in European countries where people have soul.

              In England the boy puts his hand o the girl§s shoulder and says, quietly, "You're all right, you know."

              If he really loves her he says "I really quite like you, in fact."

              If he wants to marry a girl, he says. "I say ...  would you ... ?"

              If he wants to sleep with her, "I say ... shall we ... ?"


              ----


              It is easy to be rude in Europe. You just shout and call people animal names. To be very rude, you can make up terrible stories about them.

              In England people are rude in a very different way. If somebody tells you an untrue story, in Europe you say, "You are a liar, sir." In England you just say, "Oh, is that so?" Or, "That's quite an unusual story, isn't it?".

              A few years ago, when I only knew about ten words of English, I went for a job. The man who saw me said quietly, "I'm afraid your English is a bit unusual." In any European language this means, "Kick this man out of the office!"

              A hundred years ago, if somebody made the Sultan of Turkey or the Czar of Russia angry, they cut the person's head off immediately. But when somebody made the English queen angry, she said, "We are not amused," and the English are still, to this day, very proud of their queen for being so rude.

              Terribly rude things to say are: "I'm afraid that ... ", "How strange that ..." and "I'm sorry, but ... " You must look very serious when saying such things.

              It is true that sometimes you hear people shout, "Get out of here!" or "Shut your big mouth!" or "Dirty pig!", etc. This is very un-English. Foreigners who lived in England hundreds of years ago probably introduced these things to the English language.


              ---




              --- In czechlist@yahoogroups.com, <kzgafas@...> wrote:

            • James Kirchner
              ... Thanks for the book tip. I d never heard of it. ... Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as an American, when I hear
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                >> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikes. It is old, but still very valid.
                >> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing one's chin and frowning ... (see below)

                Thanks for the book tip. I'd never heard of it.

                >> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g. http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml
                >> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond, one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.

                Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as an American, when I hear another American say, "Wow, that's awesome," it almost always means, "Wow, that's awesome." In the extremely rare case that it doesn't, it will be very obvious from the tone of voice, which will be dramatically sarcastic or very monotonal.

                I have trouble picturing an American saying, "You must come and stay." That's a primarily a British formulation. However, if an American tells someone something like, "You should stay with us for a few days," he almost certainly means it, because he knows his American interlocutor will almost certainly take it literally. The insincere response will usually come from the person being invited, usually in the form of an excuse.

                However, past the Rockies, the farther west you get, the more the insincerity seems to increase.

                Jamie

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              • wustpisk
                ... Thanks for the book tip. I d never heard of it. ... Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as an American, when I hear another
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                  I mainly know Americans of the Californian persuasion. 



                  --- In czechlist@yahoogroups.com, <czechlist@...> wrote:

                  On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                  >> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikes. It is old, but still very valid.
                  >> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing one's chin and frowning ... (see below)

                  Thanks for the book tip. I'd never heard of it.

                  >> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g. http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml
                  >> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond, one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.

                  Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as an American, when I hear another American say, "Wow, that's awesome," it almost always means, "Wow, that's awesome." In the extremely rare case that it doesn't, it will be very obvious from the tone of voice, which will be dramatically sarcastic or very monotonal.

                  I have trouble picturing an American saying, "You must come and stay." That's a primarily a British formulation. However, if an American tells someone something like, "You should stay with us for a few days," he almost certainly means it, because he knows his American interlocutor will almost certainly take it literally. The insincere response will usually come from the person being invited, usually in the form of an excuse.

                  However, past the Rockies, the farther west you get, the more the insincerity seems to increase.

                  Jamie

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                • Charles Stanford
                  We tend to call it good manners rather than insincerity ... -- Charlie Stanford Telephone: +420 326 996 382 +420 737 583 608 Skype:
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                    We tend to call it "good manners" rather than "insincerity"


                    On 10 September 2013 17:44, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                     


                    On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                    >> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikes. It is old, but still very valid.

                    >> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing one's chin and frowning ... (see below)

                    Thanks for the book tip. I'd never heard of it. >> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond, one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.

                    Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as an American, when I hear another American say, "Wow, that's awesome," it almost always means, "Wow, that's awesome." In the extremely rare case that it doesn't, it will be very obvious from the tone of voice, which will be dramatically sarcastic or very monotonal.

                    I have trouble picturing an American saying, "You must come and stay." That's a primarily a British formulation. However, if an American tells someone something like, "You should stay with us for a few days," he almost certainly means it, because he knows his American interlocutor will almost certainly take it literally. The insincere response will usually come from the person being invited, usually in the form of an excuse.

                    However, past the Rockies, the farther west you get, the more the insincerity seems to increase.

                    Jamie

                    _______________________________________________
                    Czechlist mailing list
                    Czechlist@...
                    http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist




                    --
                    Charlie Stanford
                    Telephone:  +420 326 996 382
                                     +420 737 583 608
                    Skype:          charliestanfordtranslations
                  • James Kirchner
                    How is it good manners if you send the foreigner on a wild goose chase because you said the opposite of what you mean? I can t think of many things ruder than
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                      How is it good manners if you send the foreigner on a wild goose chase because you said the opposite of what you mean? I can't think of many things ruder than that.

                      Jamie

                      On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Charles Stanford wrote:

                      > We tend to call it "good manners" rather than "insincerity"
                      >
                      >
                      > On 10 September 2013 17:44, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> **
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                      >>
                      >>>> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George
                      >> Mikes. It is old, but still very valid.
                      >>>> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really
                      >> interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing
                      >> one's chin and frowning ... (see below)
                      >>
                      >> Thanks for the book tip. I'd never heard of it.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g.
                      >> http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml
                      >>>> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than
                      >> I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's
                      >> awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You
                      >> must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both
                      >> ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond,
                      >> one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.
                      >>
                      >> Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as an
                      >> American, when I hear another American say, "Wow, that's awesome," it
                      >> almost always means, "Wow, that's awesome." In the extremely rare case that
                      >> it doesn't, it will be very obvious from the tone of voice, which will be
                      >> dramatically sarcastic or very monotonal.
                      >>
                      >> I have trouble picturing an American saying, "You must come and stay."
                      >> That's a primarily a British formulation. However, if an American tells
                      >> someone something like, "You should stay with us for a few days," he almost
                      >> certainly means it, because he knows his American interlocutor will almost
                      >> certainly take it literally. The insincere response will usually come from
                      >> the person being invited, usually in the form of an excuse.
                      >>
                      >> However, past the Rockies, the farther west you get, the more the
                      >> insincerity seems to increase.
                      >>
                      >> Jamie
                      >>
                      >> _______________________________________________
                      >> Czechlist mailing list
                      >> Czechlist@...
                      >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Charlie Stanford
                      > Telephone: +420 326 996 382
                      > +420 737 583 608
                      > Skype: charliestanfordtranslations
                      > _______________________________________________
                      > Czechlist mailing list
                      > Czechlist@...
                      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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                    • Hannah Geiger
                      The one and only *HOW ARE YOU*. Unless asked by a friend, it is very unlikely that anyone will expect a story on one s health or how bad the roads are today.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                        The one and only *HOW ARE YOU*. Unless asked by a friend, it is very
                        unlikely that anyone will expect a story on one's health or how bad the
                        roads are today.

                        Yet, you have to give the J*ust fine, thank yo*u (or similar) every day.
                        So far for the everyday "deceptions".

                        As to the "I hear what you are saying", I have heard the "I hear you" on
                        several occasions, but it is usually sincere, meaning" I get the drift", "I
                        get the vibe, etc".

                        Anyway, this topic reminds me of a long-forgotten thought: As a teenager I
                        considered the English so polite that a secret thought would cross my mind
                        if they reproduced the "normal" way.

                        Hanka


                        On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:17 AM, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:

                        > Funny you should mention good old Mikes - no hacek, BTW - that would make
                        > him Kocour Mikes's relative and a Czech, AFAIK he was a Hungarian
                        > aristocrat of some sort...
                        > I picked the book up when I was in Denmark ages ago and found it in the
                        > corner of the bookcase recently.. Matej
                        > ------ Original Message ------
                        > From: gerry.vickers@...
                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: 9.9.2013 17:12:31
                        > Subject: [Czechlist] RE: British politeness
                        >
                        >>
                        >> Yes, it's not bad at all. Politicians are masters at speaking like this.
                        >> I know that Germans get particularly confused as they like to call a spade
                        >> a spade. I have one German friend from university who was all over the
                        >> place for the first few months he was in England for this reason - it was
                        >> rather amusing.
                        >>
                        >> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikes.
                        >> It is old, but still very valid.
                        >> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really
                        >> interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing
                        >> one's chin and frowning ... (see below)
                        >>
                        >> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g.
                        >> http://www.degruyter.com/view/**j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.**
                        >> 2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml<http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml>
                        >> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than I'd
                        >> like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's
                        >> awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You
                        >> must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both
                        >> ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond,
                        >> one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.
                        >> A couple of gems from Mikes:
                        >>
                        >> If a European boy wants to tell a girl that he loves her, he goes down on
                        >> his knees and tells her she is the sweetest, most beautiful and wonderful
                        >> person in the world. She has something in her, something special, and he
                        >> cannot live one more minute without her. Sometimes, to make this all clear,
                        >> he shoots himself. This happens every day in European countries where
                        >> people have soul.
                        >> In England the boy puts his hand o the girl?s shoulder and says, quietly,
                        >> "You're all right, you know."
                        >> If he really loves her he says "I really quite like you, in fact."
                        >> If he wants to marry a girl, he says. "I say ... would you ... ?"
                        >> If he wants to sleep with her, "I say ... shall we ... ?"
                        >>
                        >> ----
                        >>
                        >> It is easy to be rude in Europe. You just shout and call people animal
                        >> names. To be very rude, you can make up terrible stories about them.
                        >> In England people are rude in a very different way. If somebody tells you
                        >> an untrue story, in Europe you say, "You are a liar, sir." In England you
                        >> just say, "Oh, is that so?" Or, "That's quite an unusual story, isn't it?".
                        >> A few years ago, when I only knew about ten words of English, I went for
                        >> a job. The man who saw me said quietly, "I'm afraid your English is a bit
                        >> unusual." In any European language this means, "Kick this man out of the
                        >> office!"
                        >> A hundred years ago, if somebody made the Sultan of Turkey or the Czar of
                        >> Russia angry, they cut the person's head off immediately. But when somebody
                        >> made the English queen angry, she said, "We are not amused," and the
                        >> English are still, to this day, very proud of their queen for being so rude.
                        >> Terribly rude things to say are: "I'm afraid that ... ", "How strange
                        >> that ..." and "I'm sorry, but ... " You must look very serious when saying
                        >> such things.
                        >> It is true that sometimes you hear people shout, "Get out of here!" or
                        >> "Shut your big mouth!" or "Dirty pig!", etc. This is very un-English.
                        >> Foreigners who lived in England hundreds of years ago probably introduced
                        >> these things to the English language.
                        >>
                        >> ---
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> --- In czechlist@yahoogroups.com, <kzgafas@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >> I find this article as dramatically interesting. I am curious to read
                        >> comments of British here.
                        >>
                        >> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/**news/newstopics/howaboutthat/**
                        >> 10280244/Translation-table-**explaining-the-truth-behind-**
                        >> British-politeness-becomes-**internet-hit.html<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10280244/Translation-table-explaining-the-truth-behind-British-politeness-becomes-internet-hit.html>
                        >>
                        >> ______________________________**_________________
                        > Czechlist mailing list
                        > Czechlist@...
                        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist<http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist>
                        >
                        _______________________________________________
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                      • Hannah Geiger
                        In my experience, the Americans as a group are not too fond of sarcasms, be they brilliant or not. This may be why some of the British ways leave them
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                          In my experience, the Americans as a group are not too fond of sarcasms, be
                          they brilliant or not. This may be why some of the "British ways" leave
                          them either insecure or insulted.


                          Hanka


                          On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Hannah Geiger
                          <hannahgeiger115@...>wrote:

                          > The one and only *HOW ARE YOU*. Unless asked by a friend, it is very
                          > unlikely that anyone will expect a story on one's health or how bad the
                          > roads are today.
                          >
                          > Yet, you have to give the J*ust fine, thank yo*u (or similar) every day.
                          > So far for the everyday "deceptions".
                          >
                          > As to the "I hear what you are saying", I have heard the "I hear you" on
                          > several occasions, but it is usually sincere, meaning" I get the drift", "I
                          > get the vibe, etc".
                          >
                          > Anyway, this topic reminds me of a long-forgotten thought: As a teenager
                          > I considered the English so polite that a secret thought would cross my
                          > mind if they reproduced the "normal" way.
                          >
                          > Hanka
                          >
                          >
                          > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:17 AM, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Funny you should mention good old Mikes - no hacek, BTW - that would make
                          >> him Kocour Mikes's relative and a Czech, AFAIK he was a Hungarian
                          >> aristocrat of some sort...
                          >> I picked the book up when I was in Denmark ages ago and found it in the
                          >> corner of the bookcase recently.. Matej
                          >> ------ Original Message ------
                          >> From: gerry.vickers@...
                          >> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          >> Sent: 9.9.2013 17:12:31
                          >> Subject: [Czechlist] RE: British politeness
                          >>
                          >>>
                          >>> Yes, it's not bad at all. Politicians are masters at speaking like this.
                          >>> I know that Germans get particularly confused as they like to call a spade
                          >>> a spade. I have one German friend from university who was all over the
                          >>> place for the first few months he was in England for this reason - it was
                          >>> rather amusing.
                          >>>
                          >>> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikes.
                          >>> It is old, but still very valid.
                          >>> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really
                          >>> interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing
                          >>> one's chin and frowning ... (see below)
                          >>>
                          >>> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g.
                          >>> http://www.degruyter.com/view/**j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.**
                          >>> 2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml<http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml>
                          >>> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than
                          >>> I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's
                          >>> awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You
                          >>> must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both
                          >>> ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond,
                          >>> one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.
                          >>> A couple of gems from Mikes:
                          >>>
                          >>> If a European boy wants to tell a girl that he loves her, he goes down
                          >>> on his knees and tells her she is the sweetest, most beautiful and
                          >>> wonderful person in the world. She has something in her, something special,
                          >>> and he cannot live one more minute without her. Sometimes, to make this all
                          >>> clear, he shoots himself. This happens every day in European countries
                          >>> where people have soul.
                          >>> In England the boy puts his hand o the girl?s shoulder and says,
                          >>> quietly, "You're all right, you know."
                          >>> If he really loves her he says "I really quite like you, in fact."
                          >>> If he wants to marry a girl, he says. "I say ... would you ... ?"
                          >>> If he wants to sleep with her, "I say ... shall we ... ?"
                          >>>
                          >>> ----
                          >>>
                          >>> It is easy to be rude in Europe. You just shout and call people animal
                          >>> names. To be very rude, you can make up terrible stories about them.
                          >>> In England people are rude in a very different way. If somebody tells
                          >>> you an untrue story, in Europe you say, "You are a liar, sir." In England
                          >>> you just say, "Oh, is that so?" Or, "That's quite an unusual story, isn't
                          >>> it?".
                          >>> A few years ago, when I only knew about ten words of English, I went for
                          >>> a job. The man who saw me said quietly, "I'm afraid your English is a bit
                          >>> unusual." In any European language this means, "Kick this man out of the
                          >>> office!"
                          >>> A hundred years ago, if somebody made the Sultan of Turkey or the Czar
                          >>> of Russia angry, they cut the person's head off immediately. But when
                          >>> somebody made the English queen angry, she said, "We are not amused," and
                          >>> the English are still, to this day, very proud of their queen for being so
                          >>> rude.
                          >>> Terribly rude things to say are: "I'm afraid that ... ", "How strange
                          >>> that ..." and "I'm sorry, but ... " You must look very serious when saying
                          >>> such things.
                          >>> It is true that sometimes you hear people shout, "Get out of here!" or
                          >>> "Shut your big mouth!" or "Dirty pig!", etc. This is very un-English.
                          >>> Foreigners who lived in England hundreds of years ago probably introduced
                          >>> these things to the English language.
                          >>>
                          >>> ---
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> --- In czechlist@yahoogroups.com, <kzgafas@...> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> I find this article as dramatically interesting. I am curious to read
                          >>> comments of British here.
                          >>>
                          >>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/**news/newstopics/howaboutthat/**
                          >>> 10280244/Translation-table-**explaining-the-truth-behind-**
                          >>> British-politeness-becomes-**internet-hit.html<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10280244/Translation-table-explaining-the-truth-behind-British-politeness-becomes-internet-hit.html>
                          >>>
                          >>> ______________________________**_________________
                          >> Czechlist mailing list
                          >> Czechlist@...
                          >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist<http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          _______________________________________________
                          Czechlist mailing list
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                          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                        • Charles Stanford
                          Here is a bit of sincerity for you then Jamie: I have learnt over the years that there is absolutely no point in getting into a discussion with you so I am
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                            Here is a bit of sincerity for you then Jamie: I have learnt over the years that there is absolutely no point in getting into a "discussion" with you so I am not going to make that mistake again.  

                            On 10 September 2013 17:56, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                             

                            How is it good manners if you send the foreigner on a wild goose chase because you said the opposite of what you mean? I can't think of many things ruder than that.

                            Jamie

                            On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Charles Stanford wrote:

                            > We tend to call it "good manners" rather than "insincerity"
                            >
                            >
                            > On 10 September 2013 17:44, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> **
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                            >>
                            >>>> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George
                            >> Mikes. It is old, but still very valid.
                            >>>> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really
                            >> interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing
                            >> one's chin and frowning ... (see below)
                            >>
                            >> Thanks for the book tip. I'd never heard of it.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>>> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g.
                            >> http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml
                            >>>> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than
                            >> I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's
                            >> awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You
                            >> must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both
                            >> ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond,
                            >> one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.
                            >>
                            >> Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as an
                            >> American, when I hear another American say, "Wow, that's awesome," it
                            >> almost always means, "Wow, that's awesome." In the extremely rare case that
                            >> it doesn't, it will be very obvious from the tone of voice, which will be
                            >> dramatically sarcastic or very monotonal.
                            >>
                            >> I have trouble picturing an American saying, "You must come and stay."
                            >> That's a primarily a British formulation. However, if an American tells
                            >> someone something like, "You should stay with us for a few days," he almost
                            >> certainly means it, because he knows his American interlocutor will almost
                            >> certainly take it literally. The insincere response will usually come from
                            >> the person being invited, usually in the form of an excuse.
                            >>
                            >> However, past the Rockies, the farther west you get, the more the
                            >> insincerity seems to increase.
                            >>
                            >> Jamie
                            >>
                            >> _______________________________________________
                            >> Czechlist mailing list
                            >> Czechlist@...
                            >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Charlie Stanford
                            > Telephone: +420 326 996 382
                            > +420 737 583 608
                            > Skype: charliestanfordtranslations
                            > _______________________________________________
                            > Czechlist mailing list
                            > Czechlist@...
                            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist

                            _______________________________________________
                            Czechlist mailing list
                            Czechlist@...
                            http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist




                            --
                            Charlie Stanford
                            Telephone:  +420 326 996 382
                                             +420 737 583 608
                            Skype:          charliestanfordtranslations
                          • James Kirchner
                            Thank you for your sincerity. It s appreciated. Sincerely, Jamie ... _______________________________________________ Czechlist mailing list
                            Message 13 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                              Thank you for your sincerity. It's appreciated.

                              Sincerely,

                              Jamie

                              On Sep 10, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Charles Stanford wrote:

                              > Here is a bit of sincerity for you then Jamie: I have learnt over the years
                              > that there is absolutely no point in getting into a "discussion" with you
                              > so I am not going to make that mistake again.
                              >
                              > On 10 September 2013 17:56, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >> **
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> How is it good manners if you send the foreigner on a wild goose chase
                              >> because you said the opposite of what you mean? I can't think of many
                              >> things ruder than that.
                              >>
                              >> Jamie
                              >>
                              >> On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Charles Stanford wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> We tend to call it "good manners" rather than "insincerity"
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> On 10 September 2013 17:44, James Kirchner <czechlist@...>
                              >> wrote:
                              >>>
                              >>>> **
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>> On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                              >>>>
                              >>>>>> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George
                              >>>> Mikes. It is old, but still very valid.
                              >>>>>> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really
                              >>>> interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst
                              >> rubbing
                              >>>> one's chin and frowning ... (see below)
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Thanks for the book tip. I'd never heard of it.
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>>> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g.
                              >>>>
                              >> http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml
                              >>>>>> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more
                              >> than
                              >>>> I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow
                              >> that's
                              >>>> awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand
                              >> 'You
                              >>>> must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both
                              >>>> ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the
                              >> pond,
                              >>>> one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Gerry is obviously filtering this through the British mind, because as
                              >> an
                              >>>> American, when I hear another American say, "Wow, that's awesome," it
                              >>>> almost always means, "Wow, that's awesome." In the extremely rare case
                              >> that
                              >>>> it doesn't, it will be very obvious from the tone of voice, which will
                              >> be
                              >>>> dramatically sarcastic or very monotonal.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> I have trouble picturing an American saying, "You must come and stay."
                              >>>> That's a primarily a British formulation. However, if an American tells
                              >>>> someone something like, "You should stay with us for a few days," he
                              >> almost
                              >>>> certainly means it, because he knows his American interlocutor will
                              >> almost
                              >>>> certainly take it literally. The insincere response will usually come
                              >> from
                              >>>> the person being invited, usually in the form of an excuse.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> However, past the Rockies, the farther west you get, the more the
                              >>>> insincerity seems to increase.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Jamie
                              >>>>
                              >>>> _______________________________________________
                              >>>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>>> Czechlist@...
                              >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> --
                              >>> Charlie Stanford
                              >>> Telephone: +420 326 996 382
                              >>> +420 737 583 608
                              >>> Skype: charliestanfordtranslations
                              >>> _______________________________________________
                              >>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>> Czechlist@...
                              >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>
                              >> _______________________________________________
                              >> Czechlist mailing list
                              >> Czechlist@...
                              >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Charlie Stanford
                              > Telephone: +420 326 996 382
                              > +420 737 583 608
                              > Skype: charliestanfordtranslations
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Czechlist mailing list
                              > Czechlist@...
                              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                              _______________________________________________
                              Czechlist mailing list
                              Czechlist@...
                              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            • Sabina Králová
                              Dobry den, muj staly zakaznik hleda prekladatele pro preklad z anglictiny do nemciny, obor medicina. Pokud budete mit nekdo zajem, kontaktujte mne prosim
                              Message 14 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                                Dobry den,
                                 
                                muj staly zakaznik hleda prekladatele pro preklad z anglictiny do nemciny, obor medicina. Pokud budete mit nekdo zajem, kontaktujte mne prosim offlist.
                                Diky
                                Sabina
                              • James Kirchner
                                American men tend to love sarcasm when they re together in a male atmosphere, and exchange of sarcasm is part of the male bonding ritual. Some women also
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                                  American men tend to love sarcasm when they're together in a male atmosphere, and exchange of sarcasm is part of the "male bonding" ritual. Some women also engage in it with friends, but I imagine some react nastily to it.

                                  It may be a little different when Americans come face to face with a foreigner they don't know well. I think most Americans would enjoy sarcasm from a warm, friendly Italian or Peruvian (in fact, I've seen that), but I don't think they'd care for it from an arrogant Frenchman, a cold German or a stiff Englishman. We Americans never had any problem taking good-natured sarcasm from friendly Czechs.

                                  [POZOR! Before anyone reacts, notice that I did not say ALL Frenchman are arrogant or ALL Germans are cold or ALL Englishmen are stiff. This should be obvious, but if I don't insert this disclaimer, someone is going to accuse me of that.]

                                  However, I don't think what we're talking about here is sarcasm. What we're talking about is saying the opposite of what one means in order not to make waves. I wouldn't consider saying, "It's quite good," when you really think it's quite bad to be either sarcasm or brilliant. It's possible to be diplomatic without lying.

                                  In fact, well-raised Americans are generally taught the skill of being diplomatic without lying by their parents. I can remember my mom going through a situation with my brother and coaching him on saving face for the other person while still telling the truth.

                                  Jamie

                                  On Sep 10, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Hannah Geiger wrote:

                                  > In my experience, the Americans as a group are not too fond of sarcasms, be
                                  > they brilliant or not. This may be why some of the "British ways" leave
                                  > them either insecure or insulted.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hanka
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:59 AM, Hannah Geiger
                                  > <hannahgeiger115@...>wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> The one and only *HOW ARE YOU*. Unless asked by a friend, it is very
                                  >> unlikely that anyone will expect a story on one's health or how bad the
                                  >> roads are today.
                                  >>
                                  >> Yet, you have to give the J*ust fine, thank yo*u (or similar) every day.
                                  >> So far for the everyday "deceptions".
                                  >>
                                  >> As to the "I hear what you are saying", I have heard the "I hear you" on
                                  >> several occasions, but it is usually sincere, meaning" I get the drift", "I
                                  >> get the vibe, etc".
                                  >>
                                  >> Anyway, this topic reminds me of a long-forgotten thought: As a teenager
                                  >> I considered the English so polite that a secret thought would cross my
                                  >> mind if they reproduced the "normal" way.
                                  >>
                                  >> Hanka
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 11:17 AM, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> Funny you should mention good old Mikes - no hacek, BTW - that would make
                                  >>> him Kocour Mikes's relative and a Czech, AFAIK he was a Hungarian
                                  >>> aristocrat of some sort...
                                  >>> I picked the book up when I was in Denmark ages ago and found it in the
                                  >>> corner of the bookcase recently.. Matej
                                  >>> ------ Original Message ------
                                  >>> From: gerry.vickers@...
                                  >>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  >>> Sent: 9.9.2013 17:12:31
                                  >>> Subject: [Czechlist] RE: British politeness
                                  >>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Yes, it's not bad at all. Politicians are masters at speaking like this.
                                  >>>> I know that Germans get particularly confused as they like to call a spade
                                  >>>> a spade. I have one German friend from university who was all over the
                                  >>>> place for the first few months he was in England for this reason - it was
                                  >>>> rather amusing.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> For a more in-depth analysis, read 'How to be an Alien' by George Mikes.
                                  >>>> It is old, but still very valid.
                                  >>>> It also depends on how you say it - e.g. a cheery 'Hey, that's really
                                  >>>> interesting, let's go with it' or 'Hmm, veeery interesting' whilst rubbing
                                  >>>> one's chin and frowning ... (see below)
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> But it isn't just a purely British phenomenon e.g.
                                  >>>> http://www.degruyter.com/view/**j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.**
                                  >>>> 2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml<http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/jplr.2011.7.issue-2/jplr.2011.011/jplr.2011.011.xml>
                                  >>>> - I'd like to see the rest of that article but EUR30 is a tad more than
                                  >>>> I'd like to spend ... When speaking to Americans and they say 'Wow that's
                                  >>>> awesome' that usually means 'That's a load of crap', or I understand 'You
                                  >>>> must come and stay' as 'I never want to see you again' :) It cuts both
                                  >>>> ways, and with the greatest of respect towards our friends across the pond,
                                  >>>> one just has to adapt one's way of thinking.
                                  >>>> A couple of gems from Mikes:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> If a European boy wants to tell a girl that he loves her, he goes down
                                  >>>> on his knees and tells her she is the sweetest, most beautiful and
                                  >>>> wonderful person in the world. She has something in her, something special,
                                  >>>> and he cannot live one more minute without her. Sometimes, to make this all
                                  >>>> clear, he shoots himself. This happens every day in European countries
                                  >>>> where people have soul.
                                  >>>> In England the boy puts his hand o the girl?s shoulder and says,
                                  >>>> quietly, "You're all right, you know."
                                  >>>> If he really loves her he says "I really quite like you, in fact."
                                  >>>> If he wants to marry a girl, he says. "I say ... would you ... ?"
                                  >>>> If he wants to sleep with her, "I say ... shall we ... ?"
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> ----
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> It is easy to be rude in Europe. You just shout and call people animal
                                  >>>> names. To be very rude, you can make up terrible stories about them.
                                  >>>> In England people are rude in a very different way. If somebody tells
                                  >>>> you an untrue story, in Europe you say, "You are a liar, sir." In England
                                  >>>> you just say, "Oh, is that so?" Or, "That's quite an unusual story, isn't
                                  >>>> it?".
                                  >>>> A few years ago, when I only knew about ten words of English, I went for
                                  >>>> a job. The man who saw me said quietly, "I'm afraid your English is a bit
                                  >>>> unusual." In any European language this means, "Kick this man out of the
                                  >>>> office!"
                                  >>>> A hundred years ago, if somebody made the Sultan of Turkey or the Czar
                                  >>>> of Russia angry, they cut the person's head off immediately. But when
                                  >>>> somebody made the English queen angry, she said, "We are not amused," and
                                  >>>> the English are still, to this day, very proud of their queen for being so
                                  >>>> rude.
                                  >>>> Terribly rude things to say are: "I'm afraid that ... ", "How strange
                                  >>>> that ..." and "I'm sorry, but ... " You must look very serious when saying
                                  >>>> such things.
                                  >>>> It is true that sometimes you hear people shout, "Get out of here!" or
                                  >>>> "Shut your big mouth!" or "Dirty pig!", etc. This is very un-English.
                                  >>>> Foreigners who lived in England hundreds of years ago probably introduced
                                  >>>> these things to the English language.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> ---
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> --- In czechlist@yahoogroups.com, <kzgafas@...> wrote:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> I find this article as dramatically interesting. I am curious to read
                                  >>>> comments of British here.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/**news/newstopics/howaboutthat/**
                                  >>>> 10280244/Translation-table-**explaining-the-truth-behind-**
                                  >>>> British-politeness-becomes-**internet-hit.html<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/10280244/Translation-table-explaining-the-truth-behind-British-politeness-becomes-internet-hit.html>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> ______________________________**_________________
                                  >>> Czechlist mailing list
                                  >>> Czechlist@...
                                  >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist<http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist>
                                  >>>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  > _______________________________________________
                                  > Czechlist mailing list
                                  > Czechlist@...
                                  > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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                                • <saba-k@...>
                                  Dobry den,   muj staly zakaznik hleda prekladatele pro preklad z anglictiny do nemciny, obor medicina. Pokud budete mit nekdo zajem, kontaktujte mne prosim
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Sep 10, 2013
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                                    Dobry den,
                                     
                                    muj staly zakaznik hleda prekladatele pro preklad z anglictiny do nemciny, obor medicina. Pokud budete mit nekdo zajem, kontaktujte mne prosim offlist.
                                    Diky
                                    Sabina
                                  • Sabina Králová
                                    Dobry den, nemate prosim nekdo zkusenosti s francouzskou agenturou Right Word Europe? Na ProZ mĂĄ hodnoceni od 3 prekladatelu, ale nejak mi nesedi jejich
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Sep 11, 2013
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                                      Dobry den,

                                      nemate prosim nekdo zkusenosti s francouzskou agenturou Right Word Europe? Na ProZ má hodnoceni od 3 prekladatelu, ale nejak mi nesedi jejich webove stranky.

                                      Diky

                                      Sabina

                                    • <saba-k@...>
                                      Dobry den, nemate prosim nekdo zkusenosti s francouzskou agenturou Right Word Europe? Na ProZ mĂĄ hodnoceni od 3 prekladatelu, ale nejak mi nesedi jejich
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Sep 11, 2013
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                                        Dobry den,

                                        nemate prosim nekdo zkusenosti s francouzskou agenturou Right Word Europe? Na ProZ má hodnoceni od 3 prekladatelu, ale nejak mi nesedi jejich webove stranky.

                                        Diky

                                        Sabina

                                        =
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