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Re: [Czechlist] Re: "whilst"

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  • Martin Janda
    Unable to judge whether other Czechlisters are old fashioned or not but in technical (medical) manuals I translate everyday- about 80% of them being
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 13, 2013
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      Unable to judge whether other Czechlisters are old fashioned or not but
      in technical (medical) manuals I translate everyday- about 80% of them
      being U.S.-based, some 20 % come from the U.K. or other countries -
      'whilst' is *extremely* rare.

      Martin



      Dne 11.7.2013 19:37, wustpisk napsal(a):
      >
      > Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I always use it - in fact I make a
      > point of doing so.
      > Similarly 'amongst'.
      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dozens of hits for "whilst" even in everyday chat in the Czechlist
      > archives, so I'd better take back what I said about "old school".
      > >
      > > BR
      > >
      > > Melvyn
      > >
      > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > In World Wide Words Michael Quinion describes "whilst" as more
      > formal and literary than its counterpart in British English:
      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/24127
      > > >
      > > > rather than archaic. Bit old-school perhaps. Just the kind of word
      > Patrick Moore would have used IMO. And a whole generation of
      > technicans and scientists were brought up with him as a model.
      > > >
      > > > BR
      > > >
      > > > Melvyn
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Is it safe to assume that "whilst" is altogether too archaic and
      > poetic to be used in a modern text, such as a technical manual?
      > > > >
      > > > > Jamie
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > _______________________________________________
      > > > > Czechlist mailing list
      > > > > Czechlist@
      > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
    • James Kirchner
      Don t forget that some of the UK ones could originally have been translated into English by Americans, just as some of the American ones (particularly the
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 13, 2013
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        Don't forget that some of the UK ones could originally have been translated into English by Americans, just as some of the "American" ones (particularly the ones that refer to "the mains") are probably translations from Japanese or German done by British translators. :-)

        Jamie

        On Jul 13, 2013, at 7:30 PM, Martin Janda wrote:

        > Unable to judge whether other Czechlisters are old fashioned or not but
        > in technical (medical) manuals I translate everyday- about 80% of them
        > being U.S.-based, some 20 % come from the U.K. or other countries -
        > 'whilst' is *extremely* rare.
        >
        > Martin
        >
        >
        >
        > Dne 11.7.2013 19:37, wustpisk napsal(a):
        >>
        >> Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I always use it - in fact I make a
        >> point of doing so.
        >> Similarly 'amongst'.
        >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
        >> "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> Dozens of hits for "whilst" even in everyday chat in the Czechlist
        >> archives, so I'd better take back what I said about "old school".
        >>>
        >>> BR
        >>>
        >>> Melvyn
        >>>
        >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>> In World Wide Words Michael Quinion describes "whilst" as more
        >> formal and literary than its counterpart in British English:
        >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/24127
        >>>>
        >>>> rather than archaic. Bit old-school perhaps. Just the kind of word
        >> Patrick Moore would have used IMO. And a whole generation of
        >> technicans and scientists were brought up with him as a model.
        >>>>
        >>>> BR
        >>>>
        >>>> Melvyn
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Is it safe to assume that "whilst" is altogether too archaic and
        >> poetic to be used in a modern text, such as a technical manual?
        >>>>>
        >>>>> Jamie
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>> _______________________________________________
        >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
        >>>>> Czechlist@
        >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > Czechlist mailing list
        > Czechlist@...
        > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


        _______________________________________________
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      • Martin Janda
        Agreed. I am assuming Americans would not choose UK English as the language of their documents but true, even Spanish tech writers and German engineers write
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 13, 2013
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          Agreed. I am assuming Americans would not choose 'UK English' as the
          language of their documents but true, even Spanish tech writers and
          German engineers write manuals these days, and these are quite likely to
          use - or at least declare to use - UK English.

          Martin


          Dne 14.7.2013 1:36, James Kirchner napsal(a):
          >
          > Don't forget that some of the UK ones could originally have been
          > translated into English by Americans, just as some of the "American"
          > ones (particularly the ones that refer to "the mains") are probably
          > translations from Japanese or German done by British translators. :-)
          >
          > Jamie
          >
          > On Jul 13, 2013, at 7:30 PM, Martin Janda wrote:
          >
          > > Unable to judge whether other Czechlisters are old fashioned or not but
          > > in technical (medical) manuals I translate everyday- about 80% of them
          > > being U.S.-based, some 20 % come from the U.K. or other countries -
          > > 'whilst' is *extremely* rare.
          > >
          > > Martin
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Dne 11.7.2013 19:37, wustpisk napsal(a):
          > >>
          > >> Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I always use it - in fact I make a
          > >> point of doing so.
          > >> Similarly 'amongst'.
          > >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
          > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
          > >> "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
          > >>>
          > >>> Dozens of hits for "whilst" even in everyday chat in the Czechlist
          > >> archives, so I'd better take back what I said about "old school".
          > >>>
          > >>> BR
          > >>>
          > >>> Melvyn
          > >>>
          > >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
          > >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
          > >>>>
          > >>>> In World Wide Words Michael Quinion describes "whilst" as more
          > >> formal and literary than its counterpart in British English:
          > >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/24127
          > >>>>
          > >>>> rather than archaic. Bit old-school perhaps. Just the kind of word
          > >> Patrick Moore would have used IMO. And a whole generation of
          > >> technicans and scientists were brought up with him as a model.
          > >>>>
          > >>>> BR
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Melvyn
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
          > >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@>
          > wrote:
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>> Is it safe to assume that "whilst" is altogether too archaic and
          > >> poetic to be used in a modern text, such as a technical manual?
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>> Jamie
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>> _______________________________________________
          > >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
          > >>>>> Czechlist@
          > >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _______________________________________________
          > > Czechlist mailing list
          > > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >
          > _______________________________________________
          > Czechlist mailing list
          > Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
          >
          >
        • James Kirchner
          Some clients have me translate technical documents originally written in Czech, German or French into UK English , and from there they are translated into the
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 13, 2013
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            Some clients have me translate technical documents originally written in Czech, German or French into "UK English", and from there they are translated into the rest of the world's languages. So there's no telling what the original language of a document was, and the potential for "Leitfehler" is enormous.

            Since the non-native English-speaking clients often don't have a clear understanding of the differences between UK and US English, what they often mean is "-our, -re, no slang, don't embarrass me". Sometimes the end clients or even the agencies are British, and for some reason they don't object to my version of UK English, which is my own English with the spelling changed and a few British terms inserted, where I know them. The British don't seem to complain and come back again and again.

            The most common complaint, which occurs once every three years or so, is that I used "American spelling". This means "-ize" instead of "-ise" in some words. I merely direct them to an Oxford UK dictionary, and they don't complain anymore. I would actually give them all the "-ise" they want, except that I have not found a spellchecker for UK English that rejects the "-ize" variants preferred in the Oxford dictionaries. If anyone knows of one, I'd be glad to know about it.

            Jamie

            On Jul 13, 2013, at 7:58 PM, Martin Janda wrote:

            > Agreed. I am assuming Americans would not choose 'UK English' as the
            > language of their documents but true, even Spanish tech writers and
            > German engineers write manuals these days, and these are quite likely to
            > use - or at least declare to use - UK English.
            >
            > Martin
            >
            >
            > Dne 14.7.2013 1:36, James Kirchner napsal(a):
            >>
            >> Don't forget that some of the UK ones could originally have been
            >> translated into English by Americans, just as some of the "American"
            >> ones (particularly the ones that refer to "the mains") are probably
            >> translations from Japanese or German done by British translators. :-)
            >>
            >> Jamie
            >>
            >> On Jul 13, 2013, at 7:30 PM, Martin Janda wrote:
            >>
            >>> Unable to judge whether other Czechlisters are old fashioned or not but
            >>> in technical (medical) manuals I translate everyday- about 80% of them
            >>> being U.S.-based, some 20 % come from the U.K. or other countries -
            >>> 'whilst' is *extremely* rare.
            >>>
            >>> Martin
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Dne 11.7.2013 19:37, wustpisk napsal(a):
            >>>>
            >>>> Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I always use it - in fact I make a
            >>>> point of doing so.
            >>>> Similarly 'amongst'.
            >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>,
            >>>> "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Dozens of hits for "whilst" even in everyday chat in the Czechlist
            >>>> archives, so I'd better take back what I said about "old school".
            >>>>>
            >>>>> BR
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Melvyn
            >>>>>
            >>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
            >>>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> In World Wide Words Michael Quinion describes "whilst" as more
            >>>> formal and literary than its counterpart in British English:
            >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/24127
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> rather than archaic. Bit old-school perhaps. Just the kind of word
            >>>> Patrick Moore would have used IMO. And a whole generation of
            >>>> technicans and scientists were brought up with him as a model.
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> BR
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> Melvyn
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            >> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
            >>>> <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@>
            >> wrote:
            >>>>>>>
            >>>>>>> Is it safe to assume that "whilst" is altogether too archaic and
            >>>> poetic to be used in a modern text, such as a technical manual?
            >>>>>>>
            >>>>>>> Jamie
            >>>>>>>
            >>>>>>>
            >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
            >>>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
            >>>>>>> Czechlist@
            >>>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >>>>>>>
            >>>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> ------------------------------------
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> _______________________________________________
            >>> Czechlist mailing list
            >>> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >>
            >> _______________________________________________
            >> Czechlist mailing list
            >> Czechlist@... <mailto:Czechlist%40czechlist.org>
            >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > Czechlist mailing list
            > Czechlist@...
            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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