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4 Changes to English So Subtle We Hardly Notice They're Happening

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  • Pilucha, Jiri
    cannot see any earth-shattering discoveries here but interesting nonetheless ad item 1, is this really a new trend? in czech schools we were taught the -ing
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 8, 2013
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      cannot see any earth-shattering discoveries here but interesting nonetheless

      ad item 1, is this really a new trend? in czech schools we were taught the -ing form as actually the only correct one as far back as 40 years ago

      http://mentalfloss.com/article/51362/4-changes-english-so-subtle-we-hardly-notice-theyre-happening




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Valerie Talacko
      1. There are differences in meaning between some of the pairs in no. 1 - We tried leaving means you are trying it to see if it works ( We tried leaving the
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 8, 2013
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        1.

        There are differences in meaning between some of the pairs in no. 1 -
        "We tried leaving" means you are trying it to see if it works ("We tried
        leaving the baby for a little while") while "We tried to leave" means
        you're trying to leave but someone/something is stopping you. "They
        started walking" means they got going, while "They started to walk"
        suggests (to me) they started to walk as opposed to running, for
        example.

        With "like" there's a difference in usage between BrE and AmE - "She
        likes to paint" is definitely AmE and "She likes painting" BrE (although
        again, the emphasis is slightly different - "She likes to paint" sounds
        to me slightly more casual, whereas "she likes painting" is the whole
        activity of painting. "She likes to paint" also sounds slightly
        old-fashioned to a British ear, which could be part of the shift to -ing
        they mention.

        This isn't true of "We tried to leave" or "They started to walk",
        however - both sound entirely current (and BrE) to me, just a difference
        in meaning compared to the -ing form.

        2. Yes - partly because the progressive form is more vivid - "I'm
        thinking this is a bad idea."

        3. I think these took hold in print before I was around :)

        4. This is still bad style - as far as I know, the rule that you should
        avoid "get" and "got" as much as you can in writing still holds good,
        and is, I think, pretty justified (unless it's part of a colloquial
        phrase with a specific meaning - they got hammered, he got told.) Even
        in speech they can sometimes sound bad - if you talk about getting a
        present it can sound a bit like nahrabat.

        Valerie

        On 08.07.2013 21:24, Pilucha, Jiri wrote:
        > cannot see any earth-shattering discoveries here but interesting
        > nonetheless
        >
        > ad item 1, is this really a new trend? in czech schools we were
        > taught the -ing form as actually the only correct one as far back as
        > 40 years ago
        >
        >
        >
        > http://mentalfloss.com/article/51362/4-changes-english-so-subtle-we-hardly-notice-theyre-happening
        > [1]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > Links:
        > ------
        > [1]
        >
        > http://mentalfloss.com/article/51362/4-changes-english-so-subtle-we-hardly-notice-theyre-happening
        > [2]
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZjR0cW1kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTIwMTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzczMzExNDg1?act=reply&messageNum=52012
        > [3]
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdTdzazQxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzczMzExNDg1
        > [4]
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/52012;_ylc=X3oDMTM1ZjRsaDY5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTIwMTIEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzczMzExNDg1BHRwY0lkAzUyMDEy
        > [5]
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcTU5MWtzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMzczMzExNDg1
        > [6]
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjZ24ycWtkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzNzMzMTE0ODU-
        > [7] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Melvyn
        There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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          There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.


          He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
          I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...

          You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
          Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.

          But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.

          A note on like to/like ing

          If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare

          I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)

          I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)

          I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
          http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017

          but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.

          More when I get a moment.

          BR

          Melvyn
        • wustpisk
          One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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            One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
            e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.

            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
            >
            >
            > He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
            > I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
            >
            > You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
            > Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
            >
            > But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
            >
            > A note on like to/like ing
            >
            > If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
            >
            > I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
            >
            > I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
            >
            > I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
            > http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
            >
            > but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
            >
            > More when I get a moment.
            >
            > BR
            >
            > Melvyn
            >
          • James Kirchner
            It s annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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              It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.

              Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.

              Jamie

              On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:

              >
              > One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
              > e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
              >
              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
              >>
              >>
              >> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
              >> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
              >>
              >> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
              >> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
              >>
              >> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
              >>
              >> A note on like to/like ing
              >>
              >> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
              >>
              >> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
              >>
              >> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
              >>
              >> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
              >> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
              >>
              >> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
              >>
              >> More when I get a moment.
              >>
              >> BR
              >>
              >> Melvyn
              >>
              >
              >
              > _______________________________________________
              > Czechlist mailing list
              > Czechlist@...
              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


              _______________________________________________
              Czechlist mailing list
              Czechlist@...
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            • Melvyn
              As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid. We were discussing something similar some time ago.
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.

                We were discussing something similar some time ago.

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290

                BR

                Melvyn


                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                >
                > It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                >
                > Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                >
                > Jamie
                >
                > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                > > e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                > >
                > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                > >> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                > >>
                > >> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                > >> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                > >>
                > >> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                > >>
                > >> A note on like to/like ing
                > >>
                > >> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                > >>
                > >> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                > >>
                > >> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                > >>
                > >> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                > >> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                > >>
                > >> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                > >>
                > >> More when I get a moment.
                > >>
                > >> BR
                > >>
                > >> Melvyn
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > > _______________________________________________
                > > Czechlist mailing list
                > > Czechlist@...
                > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                >
                >
                > _______________________________________________
                > Czechlist mailing list
                > Czechlist@...
                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                >
              • wustpisk
                Come to think of it, to be loving sth. (or maybe to be lovin sth. ) is probably more common that to be liking sth. This is another one in the same vein:
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                  Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'

                  This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/


                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                  >
                  > We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                  >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                  >
                  > BR
                  >
                  > Melvyn
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                  > >
                  > > Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                  > >
                  > > Jamie
                  > >
                  > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                  > > > e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                  > > >> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                  > > >>
                  > > >> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                  > > >> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> A note on like to/like ing
                  > > >>
                  > > >> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                  > > >>
                  > > >> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                  > > >>
                  > > >> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                  > > >>
                  > > >> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                  > > >> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                  > > >>
                  > > >> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> More when I get a moment.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> BR
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Melvyn
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > _______________________________________________
                  > > > Czechlist mailing list
                  > > > Czechlist@
                  > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > _______________________________________________
                  > > Czechlist mailing list
                  > > Czechlist@
                  > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                  > >
                  >
                • Melvyn
                  So going to do sth does strike me as very 21st century. So does like totally going to do sth . Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing. My niece in
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                    "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing.

                    My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?

                    BR

                    Melvyn

                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                    >
                    > This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                    > >
                    > > We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                    > >
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                    > >
                    > > BR
                    > >
                    > > Melvyn
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                    > > >
                    > > > Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                    > > >
                    > > > Jamie
                    > > >
                    > > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                    > > > > e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                    > > > >> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                    > > > >> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> A note on like to/like ing
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                    > > > >> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> More when I get a moment.
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> BR
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >> Melvyn
                    > > > >>
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > _______________________________________________
                    > > > > Czechlist mailing list
                    > > > > Czechlist@
                    > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > _______________________________________________
                    > > > Czechlist mailing list
                    > > > Czechlist@
                    > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • James Kirchner
                    What comes next is the possessive of you guys , which is variantly your guys , you guys s or your guys s . It s the northern equivalent of y all and
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                      What comes next is the possessive of "you guys", which is variantly "your guys", "you guys's" or "your guys's".

                      It's the northern equivalent of "y'all" and "y'all's".

                      Jamie

                      On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:08 PM, Melvyn wrote:

                      > My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?

                      _______________________________________________
                      Czechlist mailing list
                      Czechlist@...
                      http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                    • wustpisk
                      My 8 year-old son has been weaned off using awesome as he is docked pocket money whenever he utters it.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                        My 8 year-old son has been weaned off using 'awesome' as he is docked pocket money whenever he utters it.

                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing.
                        >
                        > My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?
                        >
                        > BR
                        >
                        > Melvyn
                        >
                        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                        > >
                        > > This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                        > > >
                        > > > We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                        > > >
                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                        > > >
                        > > > BR
                        > > >
                        > > > Melvyn
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Jamie
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                        > > > > > e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                        > > > > >> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                        > > > > >> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> A note on like to/like ing
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                        > > > > >> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> More when I get a moment.
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> BR
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >> Melvyn
                        > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > _______________________________________________
                        > > > > > Czechlist mailing list
                        > > > > > Czechlist@
                        > > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > _______________________________________________
                        > > > > Czechlist mailing list
                        > > > > Czechlist@
                        > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • James Kirchner
                        Good for you! Twice this semester I ve had to explain to my ESL class that something commonly referred to as awesome is much less awesome than the word
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Good for you! Twice this semester I've had to explain to my ESL class that something commonly referred to as "awesome" is much less awesome than the word originally implied. I have to get across that the word is properly applied to God or the Grand Canyon or something, not socks or a cigarette lighter.

                          Just make sure the kid doesn't start calling everything "epic".

                          Jamie

                          On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:12 PM, wustpisk wrote:

                          > My 8 year-old son has been weaned off using 'awesome' as he is docked pocket money whenever he utters it.
                          >
                          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing.
                          >>
                          >> My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?
                          >>
                          >> BR
                          >>
                          >> Melvyn
                          >>
                          >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                          >>>
                          >>> This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>> As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                          >>>>
                          >>>> BR
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Melvyn
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Jamie
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                          >>>>>> e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                          >>>>>>> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                          >>>>>>> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> A note on like to/like ing
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                          >>>>>>> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> More when I get a moment.
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> BR
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>> Melvyn
                          >>>>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>>
                          >>>>>> _______________________________________________
                          >>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                          >>>>>> Czechlist@
                          >>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> _______________________________________________
                          >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                          >>>>> Czechlist@
                          >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          > _______________________________________________
                          > Czechlist mailing list
                          > Czechlist@...
                          > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                          _______________________________________________
                          Czechlist mailing list
                          Czechlist@...
                          http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                        • wustpisk
                          Yes - I encourage the use of awe-inspiring instead, and then only appropriately. While we re at it, another thing that gets my goat is another Cowellism, to
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                            Yes - I encourage the use of 'awe-inspiring' instead, and then only appropriately.

                            While we're at it, another thing that gets my goat is another Cowellism, to wit:

                            - How are you?
                            - I'm good, thanks

                            The only proper response to this is of course:
                            - I was enquiring after your health and well-being, I wasn't asking for a moral opinion about yourself.



                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Good for you! Twice this semester I've had to explain to my ESL class that something commonly referred to as "awesome" is much less awesome than the word originally implied. I have to get across that the word is properly applied to God or the Grand Canyon or something, not socks or a cigarette lighter.
                            >
                            > Just make sure the kid doesn't start calling everything "epic".
                            >
                            > Jamie
                            >
                            > On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:12 PM, wustpisk wrote:
                            >
                            > > My 8 year-old son has been weaned off using 'awesome' as he is docked pocket money whenever he utters it.
                            > >
                            > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing.
                            > >>
                            > >> My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?
                            > >>
                            > >> BR
                            > >>
                            > >> Melvyn
                            > >>
                            > >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@> wrote:
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                            > >>>
                            > >>> This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> BR
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> Melvyn
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> Jamie
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>>
                            > >>>>>> One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                            > >>>>>> e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                            > >>>>>>
                            > >>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                            > >>>>>>> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                            > >>>>>>> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> A note on like to/like ing
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                            > >>>>>>> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> More when I get a moment.
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> BR
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>> Melvyn
                            > >>>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>
                            > >>>>>>
                            > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
                            > >>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                            > >>>>>> Czechlist@
                            > >>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> _______________________________________________
                            > >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                            > >>>>> Czechlist@
                            > >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > _______________________________________________
                            > > Czechlist mailing list
                            > > Czechlist@...
                            > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            >
                            >
                            > _______________________________________________
                            > Czechlist mailing list
                            > Czechlist@...
                            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            >
                          • James Kirchner
                            I m convinced that I m good is not a veering away from proper English (much as I hate it) but a return to the Nordic substrate, since people say they re
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                              I'm convinced that "I'm good" is not a veering away from proper English (much as I hate it) but a return to the Nordic substrate, since people say they're "god" in the Scandinavian languages.

                              The issue is that if you say, "I'm fine," that may be an exaggeration, and if you say, "I'm well," it means you're not sick. So it's always a little off-kilter, unless you just ignore the question.

                              Maybe we should just adopt the British "how do you do" custom of asking the same question back. (That one really startled me the first time I saw it in a British ESL book!)

                              Jamie

                              On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:26 PM, wustpisk wrote:

                              > Yes - I encourage the use of 'awe-inspiring' instead, and then only appropriately.
                              >
                              > While we're at it, another thing that gets my goat is another Cowellism, to wit:
                              >
                              > - How are you?
                              > - I'm good, thanks
                              >
                              > The only proper response to this is of course:
                              > - I was enquiring after your health and well-being, I wasn't asking for a moral opinion about yourself.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> Good for you! Twice this semester I've had to explain to my ESL class that something commonly referred to as "awesome" is much less awesome than the word originally implied. I have to get across that the word is properly applied to God or the Grand Canyon or something, not socks or a cigarette lighter.
                              >>
                              >> Just make sure the kid doesn't start calling everything "epic".
                              >>
                              >> Jamie
                              >>
                              >> On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:12 PM, wustpisk wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> My 8 year-old son has been weaned off using 'awesome' as he is docked pocket money whenever he utters it.
                              >>>
                              >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                              >>>>
                              >>>> "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?
                              >>>>
                              >>>> BR
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Melvyn
                              >>>>
                              >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@> wrote:
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> BR
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> Melvyn
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>> It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>> Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>> Jamie
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>> One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                              >>>>>>>> e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                              >>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                              >>>>>>>>> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                              >>>>>>>>> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> A note on like to/like ing
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                              >>>>>>>>> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> More when I get a moment.
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> BR
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>> Melvyn
                              >>>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
                              >>>>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>>>>>>> Czechlist@
                              >>>>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
                              >>>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>>>>>> Czechlist@
                              >>>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>>>>>>
                              >>>>>>
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>
                              >>>
                              >>>
                              >>> _______________________________________________
                              >>> Czechlist mailing list
                              >>> Czechlist@...
                              >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> _______________________________________________
                              >> Czechlist mailing list
                              >> Czechlist@...
                              >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              >>
                              >
                              > _______________________________________________
                              > Czechlist mailing list
                              > Czechlist@...
                              > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                              _______________________________________________
                              Czechlist mailing list
                              Czechlist@...
                              http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                            • Hannah Geiger
                              One change that I really do notice, at least across the pond, is the between him and I , they invited my husband and I - it knows no socio-economic
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                One change that I really do notice, at least across the pond, is the
                                "between him and I", "they invited my husband and I" - it knows no
                                socio-economic boundaries. I sometimes wonder how and when this came
                                about.

                                Hanka

                                On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:38 PM, James Kirchner <jpklists@...>wrote:

                                > I'm convinced that "I'm good" is not a veering away from proper English
                                > (much as I hate it) but a return to the Nordic substrate, since people say
                                > they're "god" in the Scandinavian languages.
                                >
                                > The issue is that if you say, "I'm fine," that may be an exaggeration, and
                                > if you say, "I'm well," it means you're not sick. So it's always a little
                                > off-kilter, unless you just ignore the question.
                                >
                                > Maybe we should just adopt the British "how do you do" custom of asking
                                > the same question back. (That one really startled me the first time I saw
                                > it in a British ESL book!)
                                >
                                > Jamie
                                >
                                > On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:26 PM, wustpisk wrote:
                                >
                                > > Yes - I encourage the use of 'awe-inspiring' instead, and then only
                                > appropriately.
                                > >
                                > > While we're at it, another thing that gets my goat is another Cowellism,
                                > to wit:
                                > >
                                > > - How are you?
                                > > - I'm good, thanks
                                > >
                                > > The only proper response to this is of course:
                                > > - I was enquiring after your health and well-being, I wasn't asking for
                                > a moral opinion about yourself.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >> Good for you! Twice this semester I've had to explain to my ESL class
                                > that something commonly referred to as "awesome" is much less awesome than
                                > the word originally implied. I have to get across that the word is
                                > properly applied to God or the Grand Canyon or something, not socks or a
                                > cigarette lighter.
                                > >>
                                > >> Just make sure the kid doesn't start calling everything "epic".
                                > >>
                                > >> Jamie
                                > >>
                                > >> On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:12 PM, wustpisk wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >>> My 8 year-old son has been weaned off using 'awesome' as he is docked
                                > pocket money whenever he utters it.
                                > >>>
                                > >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does
                                > "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl
                                > thing.
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> BR
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> Melvyn
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@> wrote:
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin'
                                > sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> This is another one in the same vein:
                                > http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more
                                > vivid.
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> BR
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> Melvyn
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is
                                > experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy
                                > anymore a couple minutes later.
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that
                                > zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms
                                > might not.
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> Jamie
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>> One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously
                                > more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell
                                > variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                                > >>>>>>>> e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking
                                > that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach
                                > over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of
                                > such impurities.
                                > >>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start
                                > to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach
                                > students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                                > >>>>>>>>> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some
                                > considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were
                                > interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to
                                > play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                                > >>>>>>>>> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of
                                > euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> A note on like to/like ing
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for
                                > like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like
                                > to. Compare
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a
                                > ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into
                                > conversation with me if at all possible)
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one
                                > ought to, by Jove)
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere
                                > e.g.
                                > >>>>>>>>> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course
                                > many would ignore all potential differences.
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> More when I get a moment.
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> BR
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>> Melvyn
                                > >>>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
                                > >>>>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                                > >>>>>>>> Czechlist@
                                > >>>>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
                                > >>>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                                > >>>>>>> Czechlist@
                                > >>>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>> _______________________________________________
                                > >>> Czechlist mailing list
                                > >>> Czechlist@...
                                > >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> _______________________________________________
                                > >> Czechlist mailing list
                                > >> Czechlist@...
                                > >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                > >>
                                > >
                                > > _______________________________________________
                                > > Czechlist mailing list
                                > > Czechlist@...
                                > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                >
                                >
                                > _______________________________________________
                                > Czechlist mailing list
                                > Czechlist@...
                                > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                >
                                _______________________________________________
                                Czechlist mailing list
                                Czechlist@...
                                http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                              • James Kirchner
                                This goes on on both sides of the ocean, and it s studied in linguistics courses as a classic example of hypercorrection . It means people try to talk so
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                                  This goes on on both sides of the ocean, and it's studied in linguistics courses as a classic example of "hypercorrection". It means people try to talk so correctly that it's not correct anymore. They think using the subject form instead of the object form sounds more proper, probably because they've never been taught to reason it out. They're reacting to having been corrected when using "X and me" as the subject, and they then apply "and I" to both incorrect and correct incidences of "X and me".

                                  The most interesting thing to watch is when a small child says it correctly and her mother miscorrects her. "Mommy, if you get bananas for Tommy and me..." "FOR TOMMY AND I!"

                                  A few months ago I got reamed out for correcting someone's hypercorrection. A priest had said, "I felt bad about it," and someone blurted out, "I felt BADLY!" I quietly said, "He said it correctly," and I got my head bitten off by the elderly corrector and his sister. "YOU'RE WRONG! I'M A LAWYER! AND I WAS AN ENGLISH TEACHER!" People like this always slap you in the face with their credentials but never ask you yours. I later pointed out to the man that I taught graduate-level grammar classes to English teachers, so had I been a couple decades older, I'd likely have been his grammar prof.

                                  Jamie

                                  On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Hannah Geiger wrote:

                                  > One change that I really do notice, at least across the pond, is the
                                  > "between him and I", "they invited my husband and I" - it knows no
                                  > socio-economic boundaries. I sometimes wonder how and when this came
                                  > about.
                                  >
                                  > Hanka
                                  >
                                  > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:38 PM, James Kirchner <jpklists@...>wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> I'm convinced that "I'm good" is not a veering away from proper English
                                  >> (much as I hate it) but a return to the Nordic substrate, since people say
                                  >> they're "god" in the Scandinavian languages.
                                  >>
                                  >> The issue is that if you say, "I'm fine," that may be an exaggeration, and
                                  >> if you say, "I'm well," it means you're not sick. So it's always a little
                                  >> off-kilter, unless you just ignore the question.
                                  >>
                                  >> Maybe we should just adopt the British "how do you do" custom of asking
                                  >> the same question back. (That one really startled me the first time I saw
                                  >> it in a British ESL book!)
                                  >>
                                  >> Jamie
                                  >>
                                  >> On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:26 PM, wustpisk wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> Yes - I encourage the use of 'awe-inspiring' instead, and then only
                                  >> appropriately.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> While we're at it, another thing that gets my goat is another Cowellism,
                                  >> to wit:
                                  >>>
                                  >>> - How are you?
                                  >>> - I'm good, thanks
                                  >>>
                                  >>> The only proper response to this is of course:
                                  >>> - I was enquiring after your health and well-being, I wasn't asking for
                                  >> a moral opinion about yourself.
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Good for you! Twice this semester I've had to explain to my ESL class
                                  >> that something commonly referred to as "awesome" is much less awesome than
                                  >> the word originally implied. I have to get across that the word is
                                  >> properly applied to God or the Grand Canyon or something, not socks or a
                                  >> cigarette lighter.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Just make sure the kid doesn't start calling everything "epic".
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Jamie
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 12:12 PM, wustpisk wrote:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> My 8 year-old son has been weaned off using 'awesome' as he is docked
                                  >> pocket money whenever he utters it.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does
                                  >> "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl
                                  >> thing.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> BR
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> Melvyn
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@> wrote:
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin'
                                  >> sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> This is another one in the same vein:
                                  >> http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more
                                  >> vivid.
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> BR
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> Melvyn
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@>
                                  >> wrote:
                                  >>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>> It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is
                                  >> experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy
                                  >> anymore a couple minutes later.
                                  >>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>> Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that
                                  >> zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms
                                  >> might not.
                                  >>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>> Jamie
                                  >>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                                  >>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>> One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously
                                  >> more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell
                                  >> variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                                  >>>>>>>>>> e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking
                                  >> that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach
                                  >> over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of
                                  >> such impurities.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start
                                  >> to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach
                                  >> students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some
                                  >> considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were
                                  >> interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to
                                  >> play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of
                                  >> euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> A note on like to/like ing
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for
                                  >> like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like
                                  >> to. Compare
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a
                                  >> ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into
                                  >> conversation with me if at all possible)
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one
                                  >> ought to, by Jove)
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere
                                  >> e.g.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course
                                  >> many would ignore all potential differences.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> More when I get a moment.
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> BR
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>> Melvyn
                                  >>>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
                                  >>>>>>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                                  >>>>>>>>>> Czechlist@
                                  >>>>>>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                  >>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
                                  >>>>>>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                                  >>>>>>>>> Czechlist@
                                  >>>>>>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                  >>>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> _______________________________________________
                                  >>>>> Czechlist mailing list
                                  >>>>> Czechlist@...
                                  >>>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> _______________________________________________
                                  >>>> Czechlist mailing list
                                  >>>> Czechlist@...
                                  >>>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> _______________________________________________
                                  >>> Czechlist mailing list
                                  >>> Czechlist@...
                                  >>> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> _______________________________________________
                                  >> Czechlist mailing list
                                  >> Czechlist@...
                                  >> http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                  >>
                                  > _______________________________________________
                                  > Czechlist mailing list
                                  > Czechlist@...
                                  > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


                                  _______________________________________________
                                  Czechlist mailing list
                                  Czechlist@...
                                  http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                • Melvyn
                                  ... I used to reward/bribe my adult students with gumove medvidky for correctly using vocabulary from previous weeks lessons in their conversation. Not sure
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
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                                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > My 8 year-old son has been weaned off using 'awesome' as he is docked pocket money whenever he utters it.

                                    I used to reward/bribe my adult students with gumove medvidky for correctly using vocabulary from previous weeks' lessons in their conversation. Not sure if this would work for youngsters. Possible dental issues. I would probably be a lousy dad, actually.

                                    BR

                                    Melvyn
                                  • Pilucha, Jiri
                                    Did you know about xx? I totally didn t (overheard in LA) From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melvyn Sent:
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      "Did you know about xx?"
                                      "I totally didn't"
                                      (overheard in LA)


                                      From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melvyn
                                      Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:08 PM
                                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [Czechlist] Re: 4 Changes to English So Subtle We Hardly Notice They're Happening



                                      "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing.

                                      My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?

                                      BR

                                      Melvyn

                                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@...<mailto:gerry.vickers@...>> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                                      >
                                      > This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                                      > >
                                      > > We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                                      > >
                                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                                      > >
                                      > > BR
                                      > >
                                      > > Melvyn
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Jamie
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                                      > > > > e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                                      > > > >> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                                      > > > >> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> A note on like to/like ing
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                                      > > > >> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> More when I get a moment.
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> BR
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >> Melvyn
                                      > > > >>
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > _______________________________________________
                                      > > > > Czechlist mailing list
                                      > > > > Czechlist@
                                      > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > _______________________________________________
                                      > > > Czechlist mailing list
                                      > > > Czechlist@
                                      > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • wustpisk
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        ... and I'm sure the phrase 'back in the day' was never used back in the day ...

                                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Pilucha, Jiri" <jiri.pilucha@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > "Did you know about xx?"
                                        > "I totally didn't"
                                        > (overheard in LA)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melvyn
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:08 PM
                                        > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: 4 Changes to English So Subtle We Hardly Notice They're Happening
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing.
                                        >
                                        > My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?
                                        >
                                        > BR
                                        >
                                        > Melvyn
                                        >
                                        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@<mailto:gerry.vickers@>> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                                        > >
                                        > > This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                                        > > >
                                        > > > BR
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Melvyn
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Jamie
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                                        > > > > > e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                                        > > > > >> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                                        > > > > >> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> A note on like to/like ing
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                                        > > > > >> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> More when I get a moment.
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> BR
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> Melvyn
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > _______________________________________________
                                        > > > > > Czechlist mailing list
                                        > > > > > Czechlist@
                                        > > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > _______________________________________________
                                        > > > > Czechlist mailing list
                                        > > > > Czechlist@
                                        > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • Melvyn
                                        Back in the day we all used to say most assuredly, definitely, utterly, completely, absolutely...and not...at all. Totally covers all that now. Totes magotes.
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Jul 9, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Back in the day we all used to say most assuredly, definitely, utterly, completely, absolutely...and not...at all.

                                          Totally covers all that now. Totes magotes.
                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4lex8dpmO8

                                          BR

                                          Melvyn

                                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Pilucha, Jiri" <jiri.pilucha@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > "Did you know about xx?"
                                          > "I totally didn't"
                                          > (overheard in LA)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melvyn
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 6:08 PM
                                          > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: 4 Changes to English So Subtle We Hardly Notice They're Happening
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > "So going to do sth" does strike me as very 21st century. So does "like totally going to do sth". Perhaps I missed out on the valley girl thing.
                                          >
                                          > My niece in Yorkshire now refers to us as "you guys". Whatever next?
                                          >
                                          > BR
                                          >
                                          > Melvyn
                                          >
                                          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@<mailto:gerry.vickers@>> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Come to think of it, 'to be loving sth.' (or maybe 'to be lovin' sth.') is probably more common that 'to be liking sth.'
                                          > >
                                          > > This is another one in the same vein: http://pinterest.com/eschos/i-am-so-going-there/
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > As Valerie pointed out, the -ing here can make it can sound more vivid.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > We were discussing something similar some time ago.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/29290
                                          > > >
                                          > > > BR
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Melvyn
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > It's annoying, but it does convey the reality that the person is experiencing fleeting enjoyment from something that he may not enjoy anymore a couple minutes later.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Often I have to admit that some nonstandard usages of English that zing my fillings actually do express something that the standard forms might not.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Jamie
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:44 AM, wustpisk wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > One thing I detest, and I have noticed it creeping insidiously more and more into the language via the media (largely of the Simon Cowell variety), is the apparently new verb 'to be liking'
                                          > > > > > e.g. 'I am liking that' or, even more criminally, 'I am SO liking that', and so on. Such abominations generally warrant an immediate reach over to the 'off' button on the remote and a need to cleanse the mind of such impurities.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Melvyn" <zehrovak@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> There are occasions when I would prefer start -ing over start to, but this may be just a personal stylistic thing. Normally I teach students that the two are pretty much interchangeable.
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> He started playing the guitar when he was thirteen.
                                          > > > > >> I prefer this form if the guitar-playing went on for some considerable time, e.g. if he is a famous guitarist today. If he were interrupted then I would prefer e.g. He picked up the guitar and started to play, but dad yelled from upstairs etc...
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> You will have to start dealing with these situations yourself.
                                          > > > > >> Here I would also avoid "to start to" just for reasons of euphony. Sounds a bit kinda jerky to me.
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> But as I say, this is possibly just my idiolect.
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> A note on like to/like ing
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> If you want to stress enjoyment and pleasure then IMHO go for like -ing. If you think something is correct and proper then go for like to. Compare
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> I like getting up at five in the morning and going for a ten-mile run (I am a bit weird and you should avoid getting into conversation with me if at all possible)
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> I like to get up at five in the morning etc (e.g. I think one ought to, by Jove)
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> I have come across this distinction in textbooks and elsewhere e.g.
                                          > > > > >> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2161017
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> but I am sure BrEng and USEng usage also differs and of course many would ignore all potential differences.
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> More when I get a moment.
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> BR
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >> Melvyn
                                          > > > > >>
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > _______________________________________________
                                          > > > > > Czechlist mailing list
                                          > > > > > Czechlist@
                                          > > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > _______________________________________________
                                          > > > > Czechlist mailing list
                                          > > > > Czechlist@
                                          > > > > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
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