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Re: novinka/novelty

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  • wustpisk
    IMO it is the same, but far be it from me to speak on behalf of all speakers of Standard English.
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 8, 2013
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      IMO it is the same, but far be it from me to speak on behalf of all speakers of Standard English.

      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@...> wrote:
      >
      > Would the British native speakers agree with the following?
      >
      > 1. The word "novelty" means:
      > a. some kind of amusing fad
      > b. some silly toy that's funny for 10 minutes, such as wind-up chattering dentures, a whoopee cushion, plastic vomit or plastic dog poo.
      >
      > 2. In many contexts, "novinka" should be translated as "new product".
      >
      > 3. Product and toy packages emblazoned with the word "NOVINKA" should be emblazoned with just the word "NEW" in English. For example, a new type of Lego set would not be labeled "NOVELTY", because that indicates silly fleeting entertainment, which is not the image Lego wants. Thus, the box should be marked "NEW".
      >
      > Are US and UK speakers of the same mind on this, or are there differences?
      >
      > Jamie
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > Czechlist mailing list
      > Czechlist@...
      > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist
      >
    • Melvyn
      ... I agree with this analysis. NEW is a very old ploy to attract the customer s eye. Even as a youngster I used to wonder what was NEW about my fish fingers,
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 8, 2013
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        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Would the British native speakers agree with the following?
        > >
        > > 1. The word "novelty" means:
        > > a. some kind of amusing fad
        > > b. some silly toy that's funny for 10 minutes, such as wind-up chattering dentures, a whoopee cushion, plastic vomit or plastic dog poo.
        > >
        > > 2. In many contexts, "novinka" should be translated as "new product".
        > >
        > > 3. Product and toy packages emblazoned with the word "NOVINKA" should be emblazoned with just the word "NEW" in English. For example, a new type of Lego set would not be labeled "NOVELTY", because that indicates silly fleeting entertainment, which is not the image Lego wants. Thus, the box should be marked "NEW".
        > >
        > > Are US and UK speakers of the same mind on this, or are there differences?


        I agree with this analysis. NEW is a very old ploy to attract the customer's eye. Even as a youngster I used to wonder what was NEW about my fish fingers, but there you go.

        I am sure this is the case even in Standard AB, Canada.

        In some other contexts I would translate novinka as innovation.

        BR

        M.
      • Pilucha, Jiri
        Melvyn would you please elaborate on those other contexts that you have mentioned Amongst the shades of gray my perception would be that innovation is
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 8, 2013
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          Melvyn would you please elaborate on those other contexts that you have mentioned

          Amongst the shades of gray my perception would be that innovation is something you actively create or think up, whereas novelty is more of a phenomenon that occurs and you observe it. Is there something to it or is that a false impression?

          (Comments from others are also welcome, of course)

          Thanks
          Jiri



          From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melvyn
          Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 9:21 PM
          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Czechlist] Re: novinka/novelty



          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Would the British native speakers agree with the following?
          > >
          > > 1. The word "novelty" means:
          > > a. some kind of amusing fad
          > > b. some silly toy that's funny for 10 minutes, such as wind-up chattering dentures, a whoopee cushion, plastic vomit or plastic dog poo.
          > >
          > > 2. In many contexts, "novinka" should be translated as "new product".
          > >
          > > 3. Product and toy packages emblazoned with the word "NOVINKA" should be emblazoned with just the word "NEW" in English. For example, a new type of Lego set would not be labeled "NOVELTY", because that indicates silly fleeting entertainment, which is not the image Lego wants. Thus, the box should be marked "NEW".
          > >
          > > Are US and UK speakers of the same mind on this, or are there differences?

          I agree with this analysis. NEW is a very old ploy to attract the customer's eye. Even as a youngster I used to wonder what was NEW about my fish fingers, but there you go.

          I am sure this is the case even in Standard AB, Canada.

          In some other contexts I would translate novinka as innovation.

          BR

          M.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Kirchner
          When I think of innovation, I think of something that represents or is perceived to represent technological progress. In the 1980s, car door locks that were
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 8, 2013
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            When I think of innovation, I think of something that represents or is perceived to represent technological progress.

            In the 1980s, car door locks that were radio controlled from the key fob were a "novinka" that I would most definitely call an innovation, and not a novelty. An innovation is like a serious novinka that represents progress and will last a long time.

            Jamie

            On Jul 8, 2013, at 7:01 PM, Pilucha, Jiri wrote:

            > Melvyn would you please elaborate on those other contexts that you have mentioned
            >
            > Amongst the shades of gray my perception would be that innovation is something you actively create or think up, whereas novelty is more of a phenomenon that occurs and you observe it. Is there something to it or is that a false impression?
            >
            > (Comments from others are also welcome, of course)
            >
            > Thanks
            > Jiri
            >
            >
            >
            > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melvyn
            > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 9:21 PM
            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: novinka/novelty
            >
            >
            >
            >> --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, James Kirchner <czechlist@> wrote:
            >>>
            >>> Would the British native speakers agree with the following?
            >>>
            >>> 1. The word "novelty" means:
            >>> a. some kind of amusing fad
            >>> b. some silly toy that's funny for 10 minutes, such as wind-up chattering dentures, a whoopee cushion, plastic vomit or plastic dog poo.
            >>>
            >>> 2. In many contexts, "novinka" should be translated as "new product".
            >>>
            >>> 3. Product and toy packages emblazoned with the word "NOVINKA" should be emblazoned with just the word "NEW" in English. For example, a new type of Lego set would not be labeled "NOVELTY", because that indicates silly fleeting entertainment, which is not the image Lego wants. Thus, the box should be marked "NEW".
            >>>
            >>> Are US and UK speakers of the same mind on this, or are there differences?
            >
            > I agree with this analysis. NEW is a very old ploy to attract the customer's eye. Even as a youngster I used to wonder what was NEW about my fish fingers, but there you go.
            >
            > I am sure this is the case even in Standard AB, Canada.
            >
            > In some other contexts I would translate novinka as innovation.
            >
            > BR
            >
            > M.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > Czechlist mailing list
            > Czechlist@...
            > http://www.czechlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/czechlist


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          • Melvyn
            ... Here is my take. As applied to products and services I think innovation is definitely the more serious word, suggesting progress and development of some
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 9, 2013
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              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Pilucha, Jiri" <jiri.pilucha@...> wrote:
              > Amongst the shades of gray my perception would be that innovation is something you actively create or think up, whereas novelty is more of a phenomenon that occurs and you observe it. Is there something to it or is that a false impression?

              Here is my take. As applied to products and services I think innovation is definitely the more "serious" word, suggesting progress and development of some kind, whether technological, organizational or whatever. In comparison novelty is more "trivial", e.g. relating to play or fashion. So a new housepainting technique might be a marvellous innovation whereas painting your house bright mauve might be considered something of a novelty (unless you are an architect). Miniaturized computers and audio systems might be a wonderful innovation whereas talking cups and saucers might be the latest novelty this Christmas (though that may depend on what they say). Jamie's exploding cigars come immediately to mind when I hear the word novelty.

              In other non-product-related contexts novelty can just be a synonym for newness, freshness, unexpectedness etc, which is what you have in mind, I think, e.g. the novelty of the idea appealed to me.

              BR

              Melvyn
            • Valerie Talacko
              My 2 cents (that I forgot to send). Also agree with what Jamie says. Jiri - it s more that innovation carries with it the sense of a change that is intended
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 9, 2013
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                My 2 cents (that I forgot to send).

                Also agree with what Jamie says.

                Jiri - it's more that "innovation" carries with it the sense of a
                change that is intended to be useful, whereas "novelty" means something
                that captures the attention simply because it's something new to the
                recipient/viewer. If we're talking about a product, it may thus very
                well be something that has been created purely for that reason. That's
                why you wouldn't put "Novelty" on a new Lego product, because it's
                tantamount to writing "Buy this, suckers."

                You used to see "New and improved!" on boxes, but that's become
                something of a cliché so it's probably not much used any more. They do
                use "New improved recipe" though. Maybe also "New features".

                You can use "innovation" and "novelty" to refer to different aspects of
                the same thing. "It was decided that the children would make breakfast
                in the morning, and by the end of the weekend they all agreed the
                innovation was a good one. After a few more days, however, the novelty
                wore off and the children found it a chore."

                Valerie



                On 09.07.2013 12:21, Melvyn wrote:
                > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Pilucha, Jiri" <jiri.pilucha@...>
                > wrote:
                > > Amongst the shades of gray my perception would be that innovation
                > is something you actively create or think up, whereas novelty is more
                > of a phenomenon that occurs and you observe it. Is there something to
                > it or is that a false impression?
                >
                > Here is my take. As applied to products and services I think
                > innovation is definitely the more "serious" word, suggesting progress
                > and development of some kind, whether technological, organizational
                > or
                > whatever. In comparison novelty is more "trivial", e.g. relating to
                > play or fashion. So a new housepainting technique might be a
                > marvellous innovation whereas painting your house bright mauve might
                > be considered something of a novelty (unless you are an architect).
                > Miniaturized computers and audio systems might be a wonderful
                > innovation whereas talking cups and saucers might be the latest
                > novelty this Christmas (though that may depend on what they say).
                > Jamie's exploding cigars come immediately to mind when I hear the
                > word
                > novelty.
                >
                > In other non-product-related contexts novelty can just be a synonym
                > for newness, freshness, unexpectedness etc, which is what you have in
                > mind, I think, e.g. the novelty of the idea appealed to me.
                >
                > BR
                >
                > Melvyn
                >
                >
                >
                > Links:
                > ------
                > [1]
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwazBrNjRsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTIwMTYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzczMzY1Mjc5?act=reply&messageNum=52016
                > [2]
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbzdnZGUzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzczMzY1Mjc5
                > [3]
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/message/52009;_ylc=X3oDMTM1MTZqcjY2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEbXNnSWQDNTIwMTYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzczMzY1Mjc5BHRwY0lkAzUyMDA5
                > [4]
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist;_ylc=X3oDMTJkczhvMzJ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMzczMzY1Mjc5
                > [5]
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjaWtubGFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzMyODk2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNDM1ODgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzNzMzNjUyNzk-
                > [6] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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